Longevity, vegans, meat, booze, and smoking

reply to post by Lil Drummerboy


One of my girlfriends was a vegan as well...

And she was constantly sick, bruised easily, bipolar, anemic, often fainted... shall I keep going?

Now, I really, really like my vegetables and fruit. But, I also like my meat.

Most nights, we eat a sautéed fish filet and side of veggies. I feel that lets us get away with the occasional steak dinner or even more occasional run through the drive thru (I hate fast food with a passion, but sometimes ... there are no good options left, and it's Taco Hell or nothing).

I just can't see doing a vegetarian or vegan diet though. It just feels too much like punishing myself by telling myself that I can't have something I know I like. Perversely, that makes me want it more. This way, I might have beef once every other month, but if I told myself I couldn't have it, I'd probably have it more often.

I also don't think it hurts us to have the meat in our diets. I think it only really gets to be a big problem when you eat it as a main component and neglect our fruits and veggies.

And I can't imagine why anyone would start smoking, but that's a different topic.

reply to post by beezzer

I read the links. If anything, what it spurred me to do is to hunt more and buy less packaged meat. I respect you Bob, really. And I respect your choices. And while I may think twice about buying meat from a store, it won't stop me from hunting, fishing. Regards, beez

i'm happy that you read them and considered the injustice of such practices. hunting and fishing is preferable, but i still hold that it is unnecessary killing.

thank you for the discussion. ATS rarely sees discussions these days, where people are willing to listen and consider other view points, it is almost all about destroying the other's position these days.

peace

reply to post by ketsuko

you bring up an interesting point, one that seldom is addressed, yet it is a perspective held by most who eat meat or animal products.

vegan food is like any other food. i love to cook. the night i went vegan i knew very little about cooking. i made rice with sauteed onions.

these days my carnivorous family steals MY food. i'll bake pizzas, eggplants, make a stir fry, have stuffed bell peppers, cook up some pasta dish, etc. truly amazing food.

people think it's all salads, but i rarely eat salads.

i believe there is a good facebook page called "what fat vegans eat" if you want some delicious food examples of what is possible.

I too, dwelled for some neverending minutes on whether to turn vegan or not, but then thought of all that plant life suffering horribly while getting cut, cooked and devoured by us humans and I changed me mind back to omnivortality. I felt evenly "guilty" that way.

Bon apetit

tothetenthpower
reply to post by beezzer

 

I could not stand always being that hungry.

Sorry Vegans, but I like meat and a healthy diet, regardless of what KIND of diet, be it vegetarian, Vegan or standard is a healthy diet and will work just the same as any other.

But, I do like vegan food.

~Tenth

I have been a Vegetarian for three years and a full vegan for almost one year. I can tell you, that I'm not really hungry. At the beginning though I had these really strong cravings for Hamburgers...like I would smell one and I'd get all excited and a little crazed.

I was much more hungry when I ate meat. I would wake up in the morning STARVING, especially if I had a big meal the night before involving meat. I was constantly hungry around meal time and if I didn't eat on time, like a late dinner, I'd turn into a total jerk until I got food.

Once my body got adjusted to a ton of fruits and veggies and alternative protein sources my constant craving for food and meat especially was replaced by kind of a general emptiness when it's meal time. I sleep ALOT better, I have a lot less Gas and digestion issues (my wife is happy about that) and honestly...I'm a lot less aggressive and just happier in general.

I didn't do any of it for altruistic reasons..like I love animals too much to eat them. I started doing it on a Whim and it turns out that I feel and operate much better without meat. I lost 15 lbs and just have a better more mellow day.

I'd suggest everybody just try it, for one month. If it's not for you then forget about it. Also...I HATE most vegan food. The reason it took me two years of just being a veggie and not full vegan is because it took me that long to find a good vegan restaurant and a style of vegan cooking that didn't taste horrible.

I agree! What is the point of prolonging your life if you can't enjoy it the way you want?

reply to post by beezzer

reply to post by Bob Sholtz


Oh, I understand that vegan doesn't mean crappy, but that doesn't change the fact that I like meat of all kinds, too.

We do a lot of cooking in this house, make a lot of things from scratch. We get no complaints from our friends and family and many compliments. If you know what you are doing with food, you can make most anything palatable and even tasty. I think the secret is knowing how to use your herbs and spices, and those have a lot to do with your health, too.

reply to post by Nowyouseeme


I also think that people are individuals and different people will respond better to different diets.

I am doing very well with the diet we currently have. I drink tea and water and some unsweetened juice when I want something sweet. I don't eat much grain, occasional slice of bread with some butter or some chips with salsa. I eat tortillas wraps with my lunch when I am at work. A lot of veggies and fruit. Less meat, mostly fish (swai, tilapia and catfish), some chicken, turkey and pork, occasional beef and that's mainly beef heart or the beef required for chili. And we do a decent amount of dairy - cheese.

We use lots of herbs and spices of all kinds, but especially various chili powders, turmeric, cumin, garlic.

My blood pressure is low. I'm not stuck on sugar, so I'm nowhere near diabetic. And if it weren't for the migraines I've had all my life (well since grade school), I wouldn't be on any medications at all, and those aren't diet related but hereditary. They run in my family.

Screw that! I can achieve the same if not better results with intermittent fasting and still eat meat. And there is more science to back it up. I'd rather fast 24 hrs here or there, do occasional 72hr fasts or do 16hr daily fasts than eat vegetables forever.

Just a few studies on the topic:

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

www.nature.com...

www.jnutbio.com...(04)00261-X/abstract

www.karger.com...

Vegan food is not just leaves. I seldom eat salad, never liked it. Lots of beans, lots of rice, amazing oatmeal. For those wanting to at least try a recipe which I've been eating like a dog eating a bone for 25 years and still love every time I make it, check out my lentils and rice recipe in my signature.

The EPIC study, which studies over half a million Europeans, showed that vegeatrians and vegans did not live any longer due to their diets. They were however...

more prone to bone fracture
more prone to depression
more prone to neurological illnesses.
more likely to be anaemic

Statistically it looks like they live longer, but that's because they are way less likely to smoke, exercise more, drink less alcohol etc. Once you factor in their other lifestyle choices, they don't live any longer, and vegans seem to actually have very slightly shorter lives and worse health.

We evolved to eat a lot of meat. The only reason survival on a vegan diet is possible is modern scientific intervention.

reply to post by Bob Sholtz

i'm happy that you read them and considered the injustice of such practices. hunting and fishing is preferable, but i still hold that it is unnecessary killing

Give a thought to all the billions of creature that die from our growing crops. Torn apart by ploughs, exposed and eaten by birds, poisoned by pesticides, chewed up by harvesters, robbed of habitat by huge fields and shot when they try to feed on the fields.

There's as much death involved in a vegan calorie as there is in a meat one. Probably less with grass fed critters.

Grew up country, know the harsh realities. If you don't shoot the bunnies they'll eat your vegetables, if you don't kill slugs you'll have no beans, birds will eat every pea in a field given half a chance.

reply to post by Nowyouseeme

I have been a Vegetarian for three years and a full vegan for almost one year. I can tell you, that I'm not really hungry. At the beginning though I had these really strong cravings for Hamburgers...like I would smell one and I'd get all excited and a little crazed

I was a vegetarian four years, gained weight terribly, was anaemic and permanently tired, had rotten acne. Craved meat all the time.

Turns out, like about 1/8 of the European population, I can't cope with the low fat, lower protein, high carb diet that's inevitable with vegetarianism (I'm insulin resistant). It's not an illness, it's the typcial metabolism hunter gatherers have. I am not adapted to a plant based diet, I need to get about 60% of my calories from fat and protein, and I'm thinner and way healthier now. I eat a lot of meat and fish. Healths way better this way, do miss pasta dishes though. My diet's more paleo these days, with the odd treat. Christmas off!

It's total bs that animal fats cause heart disease, and its the crud in processed red meat that causes grief, not the meat itself. Some massive dietary studies show not eating meat has no positive effect on lifespan. (EPIC, Heidelberg and the nurses study).

Vegetarians eat way to much omega 6 oils, it's very bad for you.