It's looking more and more like we may live in a simulation

BlueMule
reply to post by thedoctorswife

 

Well, The Matrix was made using the monomyth as its skeletal structure. The monomyth formula was discovered in world religion and myth through comparative mythology, comparative religion, comparative mysticism. Its essentially the pattern of psychological development that mystics undergo, put in symbolic/mythological form.

That makes The Matrix a mystical metaphor that people are beginning to take too literally, like people always do with metaphors. That's how fanatical religions start.

When you refer to 'monomyth' it appears to me like the same thing I would call 'perennial philosophy'.
en.wikipedia.org...

The Matrix Trilogy is stoked to the hilt with references to perennial philosophy. I think the trilogy is a sort of visual instruction manual about life, purpose, identity, choice, fate, sacrifice, love, all the common concepts which appear constantly in the human existential dilemma.

The Matrix Trilogy presents NEO with the 4 great questions of life :
Who am I?
Where do I come from?
What is my purpose here?
Where am I going, after this is over?

Sure, some people might take the scripts of the Wachowski brothers too seriously and get fanatical about it. However, if you look at the scripts closely, you can see that the dialogue is sparse, efficiently delivered, every word is important... not a word is extraneous. It could be compared to a philosophical text, especially when the big dialogues occur... the Morpheus dialogues, the Oracle dialogues, the Architect dialogues, the Merovingian dialogues, the Persephone & Keymaker dialogues, the Agent Smith dialouges...

For a quick reference, here are the transcripts for the 3 Matrix films. thematrixtruth.remoteviewinglight.com...

reply to post by SayonaraJupiter


Indeed so. The perennial philosophy and the monomyth go hand in hand. Every time I watch the Matrix, I learn something new. Scott Pilgrim vs The World, Star Wars, Back to the Future, The Silent Flute... on and on the iterations go. Even comic books. The pattern of the monomyth is etched into our psyche. It comes out in art whether we intend it or not.



"Poems are rough notations for the music we are." -Rumi

Now the monomyth is adapting to our technological science-based culture. The challenge is to look past the computer metaphor of our culture to the point where all the monomyth metaphors from all cultures converge, and silently grok.

BlueMule
Now the monomyth is adapting to our technological science-based culture. The challenge is to look past the computer metaphor of our culture to the point where all the monomyth metaphors from all cultures converge, and silently grok.

You have brought Good News!

SayonaraJupiter

The Matrix Trilogy presents NEO with the 4 great questions of life :
Who am I?
Where do I come from?
What is my purpose here?
Where am I going, after this is over?

The answers begin by accepting that there is GOD, who has created, and sustains this Universe, and will eventually destroy it.

Once a human has accepted the presence of GOD, the answers are easily understood.

The three original entities (tattv) present naturally are God, souls, and Prakriti.

The God is the creator, sustainer and destroyer of Universe. The visible matter in Universe is created from Prakriti - the non-alive entity.

The God and the souls are alive. Alive means these entities can think, store experiences, and move due to innate ability.

Why God created Universe - because souls have to live their 'karmas' which is possible only in the form of 'jeev' or taking birth in a human, animal or plant species.

So God created the Universe out of kindness to souls.

The humans are special species created by God - a species in which faculties are much more developed and discretion is present, so that a human can learn about God and 'Dharma' ('dharm' always means righteousness, not religion).

Humans are made by God, just like other species of animals and plants. When we say made - it is something like magic, created from base elements of air, water, space etc.

Humans have been created on many planets, so their characteristics differ somewhat to suit natural conditions of these planets. However they are still quite similar in biology and faculties.

It is important to know that human body is a gift of God, that it is very difficult to gain a human body for a soul. It is very important to use this body for spiritual development. Otherwise the opportunity is wasted.

The conviction and faith in God is must to achieve spiritual development. To follow God's rules without fear and greed is the path.

Only humans can achieve liberation - liberation from Karmas (cycle of life and death - sorrows). This is also known as "State of Permanent Joy" as a liberated soul does not suffer from any sorrows. A liberated soul can go anywhere, and gain any experience. No material wealth can compare to this state.

reply to post by SayonaraJupiter


The unity of religions (the concept of God, and what is good and bad) is due to Vedic knowledge on earth.

The Western and Eastern religions have ALL borrowed from Vedic knowledge.

The Vedic society of south Asia is very very old and has been there for millions of years.

The differences are due to confusion, and inability of that religion to offer spiritual development.

Western religions are adapted to material aspects of society and forgotten the spiritual aspect.

There is NO human operated Matrix, and there can be NONE. Humans simply do not have the power.

Even the richest and most resourceful humans do not have enough power to control all other humans on earth.

Each human is bounded by birth and death, and subject to sorrows like disease.

reply to post by GargIndia


Well said.

I have studied many religions and Vedic scriptures are the first that 'sang' to me as correct, and are still the words that ring truest, that I resonate with.

If all nations gave some time to reading choice words from the Vedic scriptures daily there would probably be world revolution.

I suggest all to give these a try. I started as a teenager with Krsna Consciousness books from a vendor in orange robes that used to always appear when I went to a certain town, I bought the whole collection over a few months. This collection is comprehensive and a great starting point: Srili Prabhupada Library and includes the Bhagavad Gita.

For less wordy and succinct Vedic reading, these sites are great:
www.krishna.com...
www.elephantjournal.com...

For true spiritual elightenment.

Is interesting thought experiment. Thoughts:

* Is basically Descarte's demon with a computer (how do we know we're not part of a demon's dream etc ...)
* It assumes simulated reality is just like the reality outside of the simulation, and that we can make predictions about reality from the simulation ...
* It assumes that we will develop the ability to simulate reality which is like assuming we will one day go the speed of light ... is interesting, but probably unlikely

Even if this type of thing is likely, I'm not really certain why we would run simulations of reality. Even if we could, we would be limited by the rules and models we could replicate via programming. It's highly likely our simulated reality would be wrong.

It's an awesomely fun thought experiment, but people should be careful. Just because people with science and maths qualifications are performing it doesn't make it science. Scientific people have creative thoughts, wonders, and ideas all the time. Many enjoy metaphysics and philosophy, but scientists doing metaphysics don't become like ... Super Truth Knowers or anything.

reply to post by Pinke

It's an awesomely fun thought experiment, but people should be careful.

That's a statement I can totally agree with because...

I've been inside the darkened, empty courtroom, except for the judge, the prosecutor, and the clerk. The Agents who explained to me, in the simplest terms, that the 'system' had a 'glitch' and my case was dismissed for lack of speedy trial. A technicality.

The Matrix is real. The Agents are real. You can face them and you can beat them. I have done it myself.

reply to post by SayonaraJupiter


What was your case about?

Does anyone find it strange that the logo for the sim "Second Life" is a hand with an eye in the palm?

The hand rules us and the eye watches us. It's the logo for our keepers who are watching us play the very game that they play with us.

Creepy.

Simulation= fancy way of saying we were created.

reply to post by SayonaraJupiter


How do you meet a "agent" ? :p

For myself, I know it is because I've seen it from the outside. Still it's amazing to see science and the world catching up to it so quickly compared to a few decades back.

GargIndia
reply to post by SayonaraJupiter

 

What was your case about?

(I'm being vague, on purpose.) My case only appeared due to a series of gross clerical errors made by two different Agencies. When I pointed out those errors they still would not drop the case. They kept extending it until the speedy trial limit (a technical glitch) was exceeded, rather than having to admit that they were wrong all along.

In the end, the judge went down to federal prison (for unrelated matters) and the prosecutor got a promotion (he became a judge in a different jurisdiction).

crazyewok
reply to post by SayonaraJupiter

 

How do you meet a "agent" ? :p

That's easy, depending on the right circumstances, they might even help you out. In the wrong circumstances you will have your hands full.

SayonaraJupiter


That's easy,

So how? Maybe I want a job

crazyewok

SayonaraJupiter


That's easy,

So how? Maybe I want a job

Is this what you're looking for? jobs.irs.gov

I will try to swing this back around to the general subject of the thread... (I don't wanna drag it too far off) this thread was about the speculation of a singularity, the simulation and ai. I will speculate that the Matrix has already seen your post.

Your post was written with a "maybe". How serious are you about that "maybe"? The Matrix cannot calculate "maybe" or quantify it - so that's where the simulations are used to compute your chances.

The Matrix will need to run enough of simulation that works out all of the potentialities of your "maybe". Running sims is the easy part, our human scientists do that every single day when they run Monte Carlo on their data sets.

Then there is another problem for you. Was your "maybe" intended as a joke, or not so serious, or semi-serious? Well then, given the inputs you provided to the Matrix (via your post here) and all your inputs combined, you "maybe" have a good chance of securing a job as a "call center agent".

"Maybe" I'm right and "maybe" I'm totally wrong about the Matrix. "Maybe" my experience in the darkened halls of justice was just a game these guys play. You can never know for sure, unless you walk down that road, which is your decision.

When I say the word 'matrix' I begin with the etymology :

matrix (n.) Look up matrix at Dictionary.com
late 14c., "uterus, womb," from Old French matrice "womb, uterus," from Latin matrix (genitive matricis) "pregnant animal," in Late Latin "womb," also "source, origin," from mater (genitive matris) "mother" (see mother (n.1)). Sense of "place or medium where something is developed" is first recorded 1550s; sense of "embedding or enclosing mass" first recorded 1640s. Logical sense of "array of possible combinations of truth-values" is attested from 1914. As a verb from 1951.

One thing that bothers me about the techno-transcend movement is the lack of respect for the etymology of the word 'matrix'. I can't stand these guys (and they are mostly males) talking about a.i. singularities and quantum singularities when they don't respect the meaning of words.

And a lot of people are afraid to use the 'matrix' these days because they think it automatically refers to the movie series by the Wachowski brothers.... no, no, no. Alex Jones is not afraid to use it, but I don't think he has ever given thought to the etymology of the actual word.

The Wachowski brothers have given us a new usage for the word 'matrix' that adds to the lexicon. But did you know that scientists refer to NASA's Apollo sample material, the extra-fine material, as a 'matrix'?

Though I agree that we are living in an intelligently designed Cosmological system; I believe it is a layered system where each sub-system is bound by its own physics and not subject to that of which it is contained within; and not a 'hologram' or 'simulation'.

AliceBleachWhite

Something to consider:

IF the Universe is a simulation, then how would it benefit the simulation for the simulated inhabitants to even speculate they're simulated?

Simulation implies it being a model, to either play out certain conditions toward a data result, and/or to mimic/represent the 'real' it is a model of.

The hang-up with simulators, however, is that they ARE simulations, so simulation results involving input from conscious individuals aware that they are indeed taking part in a simulation introduces error into the data set.

It would thus stand to reason, if this IS a simulation, it's a bit crap for a simulation if we can even realize it, unless the entire point of the simulation is to model the reactions of complex self aware consciousnesses in realizing they are not 'real'.

Of course, we then come to the prospect of a double bluff built into simulation modelling where speculation into the nature of the simulation itself is built into the 'reality' of the simulation in allowing for delusion and psychosis away from the simulated 'reality'.

Still, for a simulation to be aware of being simulated defeats the purpose of running a simulation.

Enjoyed reading this, such a great and solid way to perceive the simulation topic.

To reiterate, you mean that if our reality were a simulation, it would need to have the coding to allow us as sentient beings the ability to cause both order and chaos within the system so as to ensure that we never perceive the true reality behind this design. After all like you said, if our reality is in fact simulation...being aware of it defeats the purpose of the simulation.

My explanation on why, is if we did become aware of it, what would be the purpose of continuing on with our lives the way we do? The answer is we wouldn't, at all, humans would stop everything they are doing and establish a completely new principle for living. I mean how could we not? We just discovered that our reality is being simulated through x, y and z. Science, physicists and all types of theorists would spend the rest of their lives building off of that knowledge. This would cause a chain reaction in human awareness, understanding and curiosity. But more importantly, how does this effect us to begin with?

I imagine a phenomenon like that to be eerily similar to a star collapsing into itself, becoming a black hole. Meaning at the moment of realization, everything we have ever thought about our reality comes crashing down into the very core of each and every conscious person on the planet. We would be stunned, petrified, paralyzed and even in some cases killed (mainly because some people's hearts would not be able to handle the immediate stress information like that would cause them. Think of it as natural selection, only the people strong enough to handle it would survive).

Our newly realized subconscious and conscious minds would put everything we currently know and perceive on the back burner (collapse), and begin to receive overwhelming amounts of new information, concepts, facts, theories, etc (process of black hole consuming energy). More intriguingly, the effect this would cause is pure imagination at this point.

Humanity would have new laws, new technology, new sciences and overall new experiences. Say for example after discovering the simulation and it's nature, as someone else has mentioned in this thread, humanity would begin to learn ways of altering that nature. We would play with it as it were, and figure out ways to create new elements of reality out of that knowledge. What this implies, in terms of mathematics, humanity could essentially alter the underlying code of our current reality by simply applying variables and creating equations that even Albert Einstein would be blown away by.

The result of that reality would be, well disturbing is the easiest way to put it. First and foremost our world would literally end. People would riot, protest, start cults, mass murders, suicides and the list goes on. The fabric of our society would collapse just as out minds did upon realizing, and once again...only the strong/lucky will survive.

Whoever is left after that chaos settles, would build a world that incorporates this idea of simulating the simulation (lol). I imagine that to be a world of aliens, to be quite honest. The implications of altering our reality means that if I wanted to I could change my own eye color, give myself wings, change my genetic make-up, cast spells, summon a demon and so on until what we see as humanity right now...would cease to exist. How could we call ourselves human at that point? I mean maybe some would choose to remain completely human...but they would most definitely be far inferior to those who choose to embrace the new reality (which is okay however true).