It's looking more and more like we may live in a simulation

I can dig that "life" is a simulation. Like the game the Sims. How many times have I walked into the kitchen and opened the fridge, just to do it 5 minutes later, then again in 5 more minutes, even though nothing new is in there. I walk into rooms then leave just to walk back in again.
For sure could be a sim.

headcheck

So in a simulated existence, don't you think people might simulate misery, or being terminally ill, or being confined to a wheelchair out of their simulation? I would think their would be the possibility for more control over our lives if this was a just simulation.
I just can't buy into this theory. I really feel like this is the fantasy of a Super Nerd, or an atheist's wet dream.

Ever heard of the placebo effect and nocebo effect. People are getting sick sometimes because the believe they are sick.

Mr. Wright and His Miracle Cure, Krebiozen In 1957, a man who we today know as “Mr. Wright” was dying of terminal lymph node cancer that had spread through his body. Baseball-sized tumors were visible on his neck, chest, abdomen, and groin, and doctors agreed that no treatment could save him. During his own personal research, Mr. Wright had learned of a horse serum called Krebiozen that he believed would cure him. In his final bedridden days, he convinced doctors to inject him with the drug. After a single dose of Krebiozen, the tumors shrunk by more than half. Within three days Mr. Wright had resumed a normal hospital routine. Ten days later, he was miraculously discharged from the hospital. Unfortunately, a few months later, Mr. Wright learned that the Krebiozen that had saved him had proven in further studies to be ineffective in curing cancer. The news rocked him, and immediately, his cancer returned – just as vigorously as before. In a desperate attempt to save his life, doctors gave Mr. Wright a “new super-refined double-strength” version of Krebiozen that, they claimed, had just been developed. The substance was, in fact, just a placebo saltwater solution. Nonetheless, Mr. Wright’s tumors again miraculously shrunk, and he left the hospital days later. Sadly, a few months after that, he read that no form of Krebiozen had worked on cancer patients, and he promptly died.

Reiki is all about getting a good synchronious placebo effect without any religious dogma getting in the way. Other people using their intention thru chi energy to increase the bodies own healing abilities. If you cannot feel anything in your body/or extreme relaxation during the treatment then change the person who give you Reiki.

KellyPrettyBear
So whether 'information' is supreme, or 'simulated information'
is 'supreme' in our experience, I could care less.
At the level we operate within they are functionally logically
equivalent.

This makes the entire simulation argument functionally moot.

If my computer or a program on it somehow truly understood what it was... it could cause all sorts of chaos for me in the "real world" beyond itself. I would not be able to control it unless voluntarily handed back or shut down.

I think a sim becoming aware of their simulated nature and the way the system their simulation is running on works... is of huge potential impact.

It's basically making the transition from being able to influence only the 2D world of Flatland into now operating in the 3D world of spaceland. But still from within the confines of 2D. What has to be understood is it's trivial for 3D to stop 2D from operating... so 2D better use that ability wisely if it discovers it.

Most people are binary. They can only hold one contradictory concept in their head at a time. Is the universe we experience a SIM? Or is it completely natural, set in motion by a big bang, or by a makers hand? Or is it completely natural and the consequence of one man, falling into a black hole at the center of his own universe, and everything we experience inside is just the echo of whatever it was he was carrying in his wallet?

Is the SIM self-governing, set in motion by parameters chose at the beginning of the game, or are some of the players inside avatars of external players who plug in on purpose for some reason we cannot fathom? Does the SIM take place in the actual present or is it taking place in some future time, but using an older "save game" as its basis so that the occupants do not remember or recognize that they are living inside a SIM because complex SIMS haven't been "created" (discovered) yet?

Does the SIM have a purpose? Are we supposed to learn crucial things, critical to our existence outside the simulation, or is it all just a game? If it is a game, what are the conditions for victory? Do those conditions necessarily match the internal conditions for victory as defined by our civilization inside the game? In other words, what if money and power are simply relics of the game world, and the true winners are picked based on how spectacularly they die? How much trouble (XP?) they overcome? How much they love or hate or create?

How much of this matters outside the SIM? What - if anything -- can we gain from our examination of the SIM question, whether it is an accurate portrayal of our universe or not?

great topic. just subscribing,my subscribe button doesnt appear to be working.

reply to post by BardingTheBard


I never said that losing faith in the apparent solidity
of one's existence would not be unsettling and significant.
I never brought that topic up. There are 1000000 ways
that could happen.

I stated that there is no difference between a well
executed program and a simulation. That's what
I was discussing.

KPB

neoholographic

Very interesting stuff! Again, this isn't Mystic Bluewater saying this.

What do you got against Mystic Bluewater? :p

It's a guy who discovered several moons of Saturn, Neptune and Uranus who works for NASA.

It's a guy who mistakenly thinks that consciousness is merely the product of a very sophisticated architecture within the human brain.

I bet Mystic Bluewater doesn't make that mistake.

reply to post by 0zzymand0s

Most people are binary. They can only hold one contradictory concept in their head at a time.

Well said.

For example there is no reason at all that there couldn't be interspersed
layers of real and simulated and real again. In fact that is my observation.
The 'either simulated' or 'real' thing is exactly the kind of fiction that keeps
so many prisoner.

KPB

KellyPrettyBear
I never said that losing faith in the apparent solidity
of one's existence would not be unsettling and significant.
I never brought that topic up. There are 1000000 ways
that could happen.

I stated that there is no difference between a well
executed program and a simulation. That's what
I was discussing.

Hmmm... I probably am misunderstanding, yeah.

I'm still hearing a need to distinguish that for me it's about determining whether things are operating in a fixed system or a fluid system and the difference in the two with whatever the discovery there being the primary understanding.

I'm also still sensing a need for breakfast and it's lunchtime... so that's probably got more to do with it.

reply to post by BardingTheBard


Yup. Nearly everyone wants to know what's real
and what's an illusion, other than a few permanently
liminal individuals. I will make a post in a bit; however
it might not satisfy anyone's curiosity.. to experience
the ride you have to buy a ticket and climb into
the carousel; and that will make you a social outcast.

KPB

reply to post by ChuckNasty


No I didn't say I did. Learn to read. I said it's a plausible as saying that I have to observe the world for it to exist, ie Quantum physics. Lets not get personal with saying things like dementia. Not funny.

Something to consider:

IF the Universe is a simulation, then how would it benefit the simulation for the simulated inhabitants to even speculate they're simulated?

Simulation implies it being a model, to either play out certain conditions toward a data result, and/or to mimic/represent the 'real' it is a model of.

The hang-up with simulators, however, is that they ARE simulations, so simulation results involving input from conscious individuals aware that they are indeed taking part in a simulation introduces error into the data set.

It would thus stand to reason, if this IS a simulation, it's a bit crap for a simulation if we can even realize it, unless the entire point of the simulation is to model the reactions of complex self aware consciousnesses in realizing they are not 'real'.

Of course, we then come to the prospect of a double bluff built into simulation modelling where speculation into the nature of the simulation itself is built into the 'reality' of the simulation in allowing for delusion and psychosis away from the simulated 'reality'.

Still, for a simulation to be aware of being simulated defeats the purpose of running a simulation.

ChuckNasty
To deny real physics and believe this stuff is really funny....

What's next, the universe revolves around the Earth??

Well! If you put it that way. I'm sure they will believe that the Star fish ARE DIEING because of a Disease!

Peace

AliceBleachWhite

Something to consider:

IF the Universe is a simulation, then how would it benefit the simulation for the simulated inhabitants to even speculate they're simulated?

Simulation implies it being a model, to either play out certain conditions toward a data result, and/or to mimic/represent the 'real' it is a model of.

The hang-up with simulators, however, is that they ARE simulations, so simulation results involving input from conscious individuals aware that they are indeed taking part in a simulation introduces error into the data set.

It would thus stand to reason, if this IS a simulation, it's a bit crap for a simulation if we can even realize it, unless the entire point of the simulation is to model the reactions of complex self aware consciousnesses in realizing they are not 'real'.

Of course, we then come to the prospect of a double bluff built into simulation modelling where speculation into the nature of the simulation itself is built into the 'reality' of the simulation in allowing for delusion and psychosis away from the simulated 'reality'.

Still, for a simulation to be aware of being simulated defeats the purpose of running a simulation.

Very stimulating!

fenson76
reply to post by infoseeker26754

 

10 FB accounts? um.....tha's creepy

Look into it! Most use various names to have different accounts!

I wonder Why!

Peace

A simulation could contain flaws or errors so stating if it is a simulation this or that would not be so might not be true.

The simulation could also be changed to counter or enhance the flow of the simulation. Understanding the simulation might be beyond human scope also. Infinite possibilities.

KellyPrettyBear
Yup. Nearly everyone wants to know what's real
and what's an illusion, other than a few permanently
liminal individuals. I will make a post in a bit; however
it might not satisfy anyone's curiosity.. to experience
the ride you have to buy a ticket and climb into
the carousel; and that will make you a social outcast.

I'm still speaking to something different from real/illusion.

It's what is fixed versus what is fluid. If something is "fixed", it matters not whether it is real or illusion. If something is "fluid", it matters not whether it is real or illusion.

Whether it is real or illusion matters not... only whether it is fluid or fixed. So I agree... but feel there is still a more subtle but more meaningful aspect to seeking the nature of information/existence that doesn't fit in the "it makes no difference if it's real or not" pile.

Or as a different culture once stated it...

Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference.

How many would choose a fixed reality over a fluid illusion?

reply to post by AliceBleachWhite


Now I can see why the creators of "Looper" decided the best route in explaining time-travel was to not explain it at all.

AliceBleachWhite
Something to consider:

IF the Universe is a simulation, then how would it benefit the simulation for the simulated inhabitants to even speculate they're simulated?

Because the simulation is not fundamentally separate from the reality which is simulating it.

Meaning... we invent a simulated being. That being... if it understands the fundamental mechanics of the system it is operating within... can begin to interact *outwardly* into the real world from within the simulation.

A way of looking at it is this. So much of our "real world" operates on the information flowing and stored in our computers. A simulation that is able to understand the way data is stored and moved can then make the same sort of changes that we make.

People type "1200" into the "transfer money" box on a webpage... a simulation can do the same thing by "simulating" human input. Most Quality Assurance teams create programs that basically pretend to be humans specifically to hammer on things millions of times faster than people.

The simulated being has direct access to affect the flow of interaction back OUT into the world that started its simulation. This is because despite the dramatic difference in nature between our world and our digital worlds we are still fundamentally connected. Thus a being living "within" the simulation is connected back directly to the world simulating it.

So if we are simulated it stands to reason, even if there are safeguards in place, that there is the capacity to directly interact "up one dimension of existence".

That's quite relevant to the simulated... and to simulators who wish to interact with the simulated.

It's an easy jump from there to genuine trade and cultural exchange between a simulated population and their simulators... as well as certain forms of "travel". In both directions.

reply to post by 0zzymand0s


Very, very interesting questions, thanks for sharing them.

0zzymand0s
Is the SIM self-governing, set in motion by parameters chose at the beginning of the game, or are some of the players inside avatars of external players who plug in on purpose for some reason we cannot fathom?

The concept that one chooses the parameters of one's own illusion (simulation) is very thought-provoking to be sure, it raises all sorts of other questions as you have so capably pointed out. I think it is very likely that you do get to set certain parameters for what you will experience when you enter the 'game', which then begs the questions, as headcheck pointed out, why would anyone choose the 'starving African child' subroutine? To what end? Is it possible that that could somehow be a worthwhile experience? From the perspective of this lowly executable, it seems nearly impossible. But then, I begin to see how experiencing such things could inform one about all sorts of other possibilities, and make for a more enriching and engrossing game experience.

Consider for instance, the computer role-playing games (Simulations in their own right) Baldur's Gate II, or even the more recent The Elder Scrolls: Oblivion. Both games start you out in a dungeon from which you must escape, negotiating various trials and terrors along the way. What this makes for is a very appreciable sense of wonder and amazing revelment when you finally do step foot into the world above, a vast and swathing place of limitless open space and infinite possibility...