Black Friday Death Count

WhiteAlice

NihilistSanta
reply to post by SasquatchHunter

 

I meant it in the sense of using isolated or sporadic incidents among the lower socioeconomic class to instill in the middle/upper classes fear and perpetuate the idea that "poor" people are animals. This is used to grant the state more authority over everyone for some form of perceived safety.

I'd agree with you if some of the madness footage was coming just from venues like Walmart--everybody's trash price point leader. However, I've seen videos from higher priced stores such as Target and all the way upwards to more boutique style stores such as Victoria's Secret. I don't know many poor people that can afford or reason the purchase of a $60 bra. In that sense, you've got a bit of ye olde ultraviolence to just bizarro behavior even in the middle/upper middle classes, too.

Victoria Secret last year:

Non-Walmart Brawl in some random mall (though crappy filming):

youtu.be...

And as abeverage noted, it's not just relegated to Black Friday. Happens in stadiums too but there's actually a reason behind that one based on research--men tend to be more prone to testosterone charged grouping and group loyalty. However, Black Friday is not a sports event--no easy explanation for similar behaviors available and that's why I find it so darn right fascinating.

Is it because there has been a misappropriation of wants into the needs category that pushes people to engage in behaviors that are typically relegated to assuring one's survival due to psychological manipulation through marketing? Is it a function of mob mentality where the greater number of people increases the chances of mob behavior? Or is it that people now perceive that having the "right" material goods as basically being a guarantee of survival in today's world or a material measure of one's success (competition)? Or is it simply the end result of an individualistic society? Those are the questions that come to mind when I see vids like the ones above.

Well I say the "poor" because Walmart has become the defacto poster child for black friday madness and they are associated with cheap goods. It is just the perception that poor people or minorities are guaranteed to act this way. In regards to your last point probably a bit of all of those things coupled with a marketing blitz promoting an artificial scarcity mentality. I think that is why sometimes we see these incidents from seemingly unassuming people because they are thrust into a competitive situation. This leads to Frustration–aggression

The theory says that aggression is the result of blocking, or frustrating, a person's efforts to attain a goal.[4]

NihilistSanta

WhiteAlice

NihilistSanta
reply to post by SasquatchHunter

 

I meant it in the sense of using isolated or sporadic incidents among the lower socioeconomic class to instill in the middle/upper classes fear and perpetuate the idea that "poor" people are animals. This is used to grant the state more authority over everyone for some form of perceived safety.

I'd agree with you if some of the madness footage was coming just from venues like Walmart--everybody's trash price point leader. However, I've seen videos from higher priced stores such as Target and all the way upwards to more boutique style stores such as Victoria's Secret. I don't know many poor people that can afford or reason the purchase of a $60 bra. In that sense, you've got a bit of ye olde ultraviolence to just bizarro behavior even in the middle/upper middle classes, too.

Victoria Secret last year:

Non-Walmart Brawl in some random mall (though crappy filming):

youtu.be...

And as abeverage noted, it's not just relegated to Black Friday. Happens in stadiums too but there's actually a reason behind that one based on research--men tend to be more prone to testosterone charged grouping and group loyalty. However, Black Friday is not a sports event--no easy explanation for similar behaviors available and that's why I find it so darn right fascinating.

Is it because there has been a misappropriation of wants into the needs category that pushes people to engage in behaviors that are typically relegated to assuring one's survival due to psychological manipulation through marketing? Is it a function of mob mentality where the greater number of people increases the chances of mob behavior? Or is it that people now perceive that having the "right" material goods as basically being a guarantee of survival in today's world or a material measure of one's success (competition)? Or is it simply the end result of an individualistic society? Those are the questions that come to mind when I see vids like the ones above.

Well I say the "poor" because Walmart has become the defacto poster child for black friday madness and they are associated with cheap goods. It is just the perception that poor people or minorities are guaranteed to act this way. In regards to your last point probably a bit of all of those things coupled with a marketing blitz promoting an artificial scarcity mentality. I think that is why sometimes we see these incidents from seemingly unassuming people because they are thrust into a competitive situation. This leads to Frustration–aggression

The theory says that aggression is the result of blocking, or frustrating, a person's efforts to attain a goal.[4]

Well part of the reason why there would be so many more incidents such as the ones above at Walmart isn't necessarily just a factor of its primary shopper base but by its sheer number of locations. Walmart, as the US #1 retailer, has currently over 4300 locations across the US. Target, another location with some Black Friday footage on youtube and currently #2 in largest retailers, has roughly 1700 stores across the US. The greater the number of stores, the higher the likelihood that that specific retailer is going to have an incident on Black Friday. Really, it's not a symptom of who shops there but a symptom of how prevalent a specific retailer is.

Of course, that's not taking into consideration such websites as the People of Walmart but Walmart has generated a whole lot of animosity against it as it is a near monopsony, its labor practices and more. It does have that perception of being the poor man's mecca but, in reality, its success wouldn't be what it is if it wasn't for the majority of the population within the US--poor and middle class included.

Frustration-aggression would explain the behaviors of those who would lash out at innocent bystanders but much of the footage shows people engaging in totally uncivilized behavior in competition with each other for a single good. I think perceived scarcity definitely is a factor in that but it definitely is whack still as these goods should not be perceived as necessary for survival and not worth risking bodily harm. In other words, if we were watching a video where starving people were behaving like that over loaves of bread, we'd "get it". As it is, it's mental and a trumping of the presumed typical survival instincts within an individual.

Additionally, you don't necessarily see craziness jumping out of sales on Boxing Day in Canada and that's with a name that one would think the permitting of the exchange of blows might accidentally be construed, lol. The UK had a similar issue at one of their Black Friday sales this year and for some reason, that doesn't really surprise me as there are some distinct similarities in the socioeconomic/political environments between the two countries.

One of the key differences between the US and Canada could actually have something directly due to education. For my token Canadian, he stated that he learned about what are the basic needs for survival and was taught to distinguish between wants and needs from grade 4 and up through high school as part of the standard curriculum. I asked that same question of a couple token teenage boys and they stated that they learned about it once in middle school and that's it. One had a loose repeat instruction on basic needs in an elective course without anything being added in distinguishing wants/needs. The other didn't. While both US and Canadian schools teach this, only one does it on a consistent and repeat basis over several years and that's the country that does not turn into a madhouse on a major sale day. I think that could quite possibly be yet another factor.

Consume Buy Obey

reply to post by WhiteAlice


I agree with you. I was just talking about the perceptions or prejudices being hyped as a means of promoting class warfare or divide. I think frustration aggression is closer than you give credit. The marketing campaign begins even before Halloween in some places and the retailers don't mention how limited the quantities are on these "door buster" deals. People go there expecting a killer deal only to not just leave disappointed but are in a situation where people are angry and in close proximity. The atmosphere is made competitive where someone will camp out for a day or longer and feel they are entitled to access to the choice items for the effort they have put in when there is no guarantee of such. Combine this with the promotion through media that these incidents are becoming normal occurrences and people will even feel it is expected of them to act in this manner, a sort of implied consent.

I am not excusing the behavior and I understand that there are thugs and miscreants in every segment of society who look for any excuse to satiate their greed. I just feel that these incidents are unfairly portrayed and give the poor/minorities/Americans a bad image in the world and at home. These incidents do not take place because we are animals but because of a number of factors encouraged and promoted by retailers in order to initiate a shopping frenzy and boost sales.

How do we know the tracker is correct?

reply to post by NihilistSanta


We're definitely thinking along the same lines for sure. Sorry if my response didn't sound like that. I guess I can see how the scapegoat would be the other competitors for a product and not the store, itself, for promoting the scarcity. In fact, considering that I know that they create scarcity deliberately but within the letters of the law, that scarcity is probably absolutely key for promoting those behaviors as Black Friday is about scarcity of a small number of products for each store ("door buster deals"). Stores have sales and sometimes deep sales all the time but you don't see mob actions like one can witness on Black Friday. Totally with you on the manipulation part as well.

As I said on another Black Friday thread, I would love to ask these people a few questions and maybe give them a fMRI during the questioning. I think that it truly is a small portion of the population that engages in such behaviors, basically representing a radicalized portion of the US. To me, it makes sense that there would be a small pocket of the population who is "soft" to the effects of marketing on the basis of numbers. Is it an unfair representation? If you and I feel shock at watching how some people behave for a deal, then why wouldn't the media? Of course, the way that I've seen it represented in the little clips is in a kind of bemused way and not outright condemning.

I don't necessarily think that the media is intentionally trying to misrepresent the populace as they are a for-profit entity whose ability to generate revenues depends on views and clicks. Nothing drives the latter better than sensationalism and the portraying of the bizarre. If anything, their cushioned and humored responses are most likely walking a thin line of showing that sensationalism without the condemnation which could affect their advertising revenues.

Humans suck! Nuff said.

Black Friday is a disgusting consumerism orgy. I can't believe I actually saw video evidence of people fighting over...TOWELS at a Wal-Mart! The thing is, black Friday deals have been steadily becoming less worthwhile for at least 10 years, since stores know that morons will come out and buy their worthless merchandise as long as you tell them that it's on sale! In essence, people are literally camping out (I saw a whole family camped out in front of Target, complete with tent, folding picnic table, and lantern) to save a few measly bucks.



This is what is seriously wrong with the state of not just our country, but our society. These mobs of people care nothing about their fellow man, and trample anyone in their way to their 6th Flatscreen TV. Or pepper spray them. We follow up a day spent with our family, enjoying their company, and giving thanks for what we already have with a day mindlessly pursuing material goods at any cost. We shouldn't have deaths on black Friday. At this point we shouldn't even have such a waste of a day.