Noah

reply to post by IkNOwSTuff

Moses and Noah were practicing Jews so I dont see how these 2 movies = Hollywood loves Christians

wrong - this is the thing..... Noah was NOT a Jew.

As for Moses, he was born a Hebrew, Judaism didnt exist yet!

Understand, no such thing as 'Jew' existed before the revelation at Mt Sinai, which was when the laws were supposedly given. Before then, they didnt follow any Old testament cos there was no old testament!

dusty1
reply to post by peter vlar

 

I don't have a vagina, therefore I can't have an abortion. What someone else does is none of my business and I'm in no position to pass judgment on them.

By that line of reasoning, you have never been God, so you can't pass judgement on His actions.

Not quite. If god existed, his actions affect me. Vaginas play no part in my life unless I'm with my wife.

If we're talking OT God then he's a vengeful murdering maniac and anything goes so he may enjoy all that suffering

Sounds like you are judging.

He caused all life to come into existence before the Flood.

You apparently are the judge of what He enjoys.

No, Im commenting on the purported facts as laid out in the Christian bible. OT god was all about war, killing, incest and child sacrifice whereas NT god was a loving benevolent deity. Do you disagree with that?

I notice you didn't comment on the portion I thought more pertinent, that if your god knows all past present and fiture doings, why then would he imbue a soul into a fetus he knows will not be born?

reply to post by Akragon


Let me respectfully remind you of the OP

Whereby those more poor in spirit, have simply become more secular thru time ( Godless ). And then even pointing the finger of blame at God, for the choices we made, a long time ago. - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

As to your response

Make your own thread about that topic... And try not to derail other peoples thread And if you're going to reply to me with insults you'll get no response... Simple as that

I apologize for my remark toward you that was deleted.

I am sorry that you had to alert the moderator. (I apologize to the moderator as well).


Sometimes on ATS it appears that a group of atheists gang up and attack Randyvs and his beliefs.

My intent is to defend the beliefs he and I share in common, and address the atheist conspiracy that I see on ATS and in the world.


Akragon, philosophically, you pointed the finger at God and His Divine Judgement in this thread.


I have attempted a counter argument relating a woman's right to choose and God's right to choose.


You refuse to address the topic and appear to be joining others suggesting that it is somehow off topic.

This topic is about noah.. Not abortion

The topic is about the premature termination of life.

And those who complain.

reply to post by peter vlar

notice you didn't comment on the portion I thought more pertinent, that if your god knows all past present and fiture doings, why then would he imbue a soul into a fetus he knows will not be born?

I believe differently than many.

You are a soul.

I do not believe in the immortality of the soul.

The body dies and the person ceases to exist.


God created things with an intent. His purpose has been momentarily derailed.

He has done just enough (like the Flood) to make sure humanity as a whole can be saved.

Causing a Deluge to save the only good man left on an evil world, or freeing a slave population are extreme measures. These things were done to achieve the Messiah who would save mankind.


He gave humans and animals procreative powers.

Humans, it seems, have chosen to act like animals.....

reply to post by Lil Drummerboy


I don't think I'll be seeing it from what I've heard....

reply to post by Danbones




So the argument is that the platypus couldn't have gotten to the Ark or Australia before or after the Flood.


I think there is evidence that the earth had only one super continent.


How did the modern horse arrive in North America?

Less than 10,000 years ago, however, many of these horse-like species became extinct, along with other browsing animals such as mammoths. Climate changes and over-hunting by humans may have been to blame, but no one knows for sure.

The only survivors were horses in Asia and several zebras.

In North America, however, horses were wiped out. So where did the modern horses come from, the ones that spawned America’s cowboy myth?

Historians believe that Spanish explorers brought the animals with them on their voyages to the New World in the 1500s. Let loose upon the land, they soon reclaimed the prairies that had once been theirs alone, producing vast herds of wild horses.

PBS

Perhaps some animals arrived in Australia the same way.

dusty1


You are a soul.

You may be an 'a' soul.

I'm not.

I'm an 'r' soul.

reply to post by aorAki

You may be an 'a' soul. I'm not. I'm an 'r' soul.

LOL

That's a good one.

reply to post by combatmaster


Thanks for pointing that out. I have written about this as well in a couple of posts, but it seems like most people still don’t get it (or won’t accept it) even though it’s documented in several old texts.

Noah was a Sethite living in Shuruppag in ancient Sumer. He was also from a different human being race (third generation) then Moses (fourth generation) was. The first Jew was Isaac (not Abram). Isaac was probably created by ‘the Gods’ of Israel by making Sarai pregnant by means of artificial insemination. Thus the first Jew (Isaac) was born about 400 years after the great flood.

The Torah (Judaism) was (as you say) officially handed over to the Jews by ‘The Gods’ of Israel (Their creators and forefathers) when these ‘Gods’ descended to Earth to held meeting with Moses in their Earth base in the Sinai desert (mount Horeb) shortly after the Exodus. This happened about 800 years after the great flood, or some 400 years after the birth of Isaac.

Before the Torah (Judaism), the Sethites was practicing a religion that went under the name ‘The order of the ancients’ . This religion was the original and pure Christianity as it was taught to the Sethites by our alien forefathers before the great flood , starting with Adam as the first king and High priest and probably Shem (Melchizedek) as the last real high priest as head of this religion. The Cainites rejected the religion.

Soon after Abram, the Bible and various biblical texts speeks no more about this religion, as Biblical texts gets busy introducing and speaking about the Torah. However (some 10000 years later). A man names Jesus re-discovers this religion and starts to revive it again. Thus we can see that baptism again is introduced (John the Baptist). Baptism was a major part of the ancient Christian religion as practiced before the great flood. Thus Christianity as we know it today was born.

The entire history around this needs however to be written in another thread as these great historical world events cannot be told with a few sentences.

reply to post by dusty1

I apologize for my remark toward you that was deleted.

I am sorry that you had to alert the moderator. (I apologize to the moderator as well).


Sometimes on ATS it appears that a group of atheists gang up and attack Randyvs and his beliefs.

You are forgiven...

But you see what happens when you assume?

Neither myself or Flyersfan are atheist...

My intent is to defend the beliefs he and I share in common, and address the atheist conspiracy that I see on ATS and in the world.

I don't see any Atheist conspiracy on here or any place else... Perhaps some people are just tired of being told their going to hell...

Akragon, philosophically, you pointed the finger at God and His Divine Judgement in this thread.

I have stated specifically the so called god of the OT is NOT God... so I did no such thing

I have attempted a counter argument relating a woman's right to choose and God's right to choose.


You refuse to address the topic and appear to be joining others suggesting that it is somehow off topic.

That is not the topic of the thread... No where in the OP is abortion mentioned... SO to be respectful to the OP I suggested you make your own thread on the topic you want to discuss, and I will gladly take your arguments there

The topic is about the premature termination of life.

And those who complain.

NO the topic is not about premature termination of life... That aspect of the flood was not the topic of the thread at all...

Perhaps you should read it again?

reply to post by Akragon

That is not the topic of the thread... No where in the OP is abortion mentioned... SO to be respectful to the OP I suggested you make your own thread on the topic you want to discuss, and I will gladly take your arguments there

NO the topic is not about premature termination of life... That aspect of the flood was not the topic of the thread at all...

Again... preaching is against the rules on this forum Just so you know

This is not the place for it as that would be rather off topic, and this thread drifts on that edge already

Make your own thread about that topic... And try not to derail other peoples thread And if you're going to reply to me with insults you'll get no response... Simple as that

Thank you for reminding us of the T&C.

Again my apologies.

Dont bother watching the movie complete Hollywood rubbish and bad acting as usual from Russell Crowe which seems to be the only thing he is good at ,they cant stay true to the story ,then there is the snakeskin bit at the end like they are continuing a Pact with the Devil ,woeful !

As a pagan I am going to see it. It is an old, powerful myth from our most ancient pagan days. It has meaning and speaks of the divine and the power/sacredness of nature.

The rest everyone else can argue about, I just plan on enjoying it.

reply to post by dusty1


the modern horse arrived in the new world via spaniard

The flood story recurs in later Mesopotamian writings including “Epic of Gilgamesh.” These versions lack the technical instructions — cut out, Finkel believes, because they got in the way of the storytelling.
Finkel is aware his discovery may cause consternation among believers in the biblical story. When 19th-century British Museum scholars first learned from cuneiform tablets that the Babylonians had a flood myth, they were disturbed by its striking similarities to the story of Noah.
“Already in 1872 people were writing about it in a worried way — what does it mean that holy writ appears on this piece of Weetabix?” he joked, referring to a cereal similar in shape to the tablet.
Finkel has no doubts.
“I'm sure the story of the flood and a boat to rescue life is a Babylonian invention,” he said.
He believes the tale was likely passed on to the Jews during their exile in Babylon in the 6th century B.C.
And he doesn't think the tablet provides evidence the ark described in the Bible existed. He said it's more likely that a devastating real flood made its way into folk memory, and has remained there ever since.
“I don't think the ark existed — but a lot of people do,” he said. “It doesn't really matter. The Biblical version is a thing of itself and it has a vitality forever.

triblive.com...

the god that created everything and everyone is just a boogie man to keep the kids in line after dark, he doesn't do so well when the lights are on, although he does has a nice vatican bank though, complete with the occasional dead executick I hear.

reply to post by combatmaster

combatmaster
wrong - this is the thing..... Noah was NOT a Jew.

100% correct...

Most are completely unaware that Jesus was not a Jew as well and that Judaism is NOT the OT religion that many believe it to be.

This is why the elite are able to use antisemitism as a shield whenever someone gets too close to the truth.

There is also no such thing as Judeo-Christianity.

Judaism is in reality the antithesis of Christianity.

Judaism as we know it today did not exist before Christ.

The late Rabbi Stephen F. Wise, formerly the Chief Rabbi of the United States said, "The return from Babylon and the introduction of the Babylonian Talmud mark the end of Hebrewism and the beginning of Judaism."

The learned Rabbi was correct in distinguishing the true religion of the Old Testament as Hebrewism for it was the religion of the real Hebrews, who were not Jews at all. Judaism, the religion of the Jews, is as the learned Rabbi says, based upon the Babylonian Talmud, which contains the supposed oral law. It was never reduced to writing as part of the Bible. This oral law gradually gained greater force among the Jews than the written law in the Bible, with which it often conflicted in Jesus' day, the Babylonian Talmud was known as the Tradition of the Elders.

This was the religion of the Jews. As the learned Rabbi Stephen F. Wise said, Judaism was distinguished from Hebrewism, the real religion of the Old Testament. Certainly Christianity took nothing from any Jewish religion for we have never taken any part of Christianity from the Talmud. Well then, can it be said we got our Bible or our religion of Christianity from men of the Jewish race? No, it cannot.

The Bible is not a Jewish Book

dusty1

I believe differently than many.

You are a soul.

I do not believe in the immortality of the soul.

The body dies and the person ceases to exist.

That's all fine and good but Christianity isn't a buffet where you can pick and choose what aspects you want to believe and discard the rest while ordering an a la carte side item to fill in the gaps. Christianity is all about being good girls and boys and when you die your soul goes to heaven. It's a major tenet of the entire belief system. It's your reward for not thinking for yourself and following the doctrine.

God created things with an intent. His purpose has been momentarily derailed.

He has done just enough (like the Flood) to make sure humanity as a whole can be saved.

How do you know his purpose or intent? If god is an omnipotent being then it's far beyond the understanding of any man. There are so many problems with the thought process involved in that last statement. If god wanted to safe humanity he wouldn't wipe out the entire population safe for one man a few of his sons and their spouses. Within a few generations the genetic abnormalities would be so profound amongst those few survivors offspring that they would have trouble reproducing. The level if genetic drift is nearly incomprehensible.

Causing a Deluge to save the only good man left on an evil world, or freeing a slave population are extreme measures. These things were done to achieve the Messiah who would save mankind.

There's absolutely no physical evidence of a singular worldwide flood event. Several smaller but still devastating regional and local flood events are well documented in the archaeological record and strata sure but at varying times over hundreds or thousands of years at some sites. That doesn't even get into the extreme improbability that the alleged ark could even float while empty key alone factoring in the weight of the animals or the ability to feed them all for many months. And the genetic abnormalities would be even more pronounced with faster onset in the animals because of the smaller numbers of only one breeding pair of each species.

There is even less evidence of the Exodus let alone the enslavement of the Hebrew people in Egypt. Juxtapose that with all the undeniable archaeological evidence of their enslavement in Babylon and that lack of evidence is rather indicative that the event in question never happened. With that many people wandering the desert for that long there would be so much there that there would be no way the most skeptical person could deny it. Plus why the heck did they wander the desert that long when they could have walked from Egypt to the Levant in a matter of weeks. The entire story is both implausible and illogical in my opinion which is too bad because it would be a fascinating part of our history to explore were it true.

He gave humans and animals procreative powers.

Every living organic thing on earth can procreate. From viruses to an amoeba to the redwood tree. We aren't special in that respect.

Humans, it seems, have chosen to act like animals.....

Not for nothing, but we are animals. More specifically, H. Sapiens are apes. Certainly we have more freedom in our actions than the rest of the animal kingdom but our base instincts and emotions are still there. Humans, despite our larger cerebrum, tend to still be rather emotional creatures going
with their gut instinct more than using their logic. It's kind of like saying gay men simply choose not to sleep with women(though that's a topic for a separate thread).

reply to post by peter vlar


Oh you beautiful man.
I can see a bromance occurring.

Thanks for your voice of reason.
I know it's like being Sysiphus to many here, but i appreciate your voice of reason and your grasp of reality.

Suffice to say, I concur with your post.

Well done you.

(and for the record I am a straight male who loves to embrace fact over superstition).

Cheers.

peter vlar

dusty1

I believe differently than many.

You are a soul.

I do not believe in the immortality of the soul.

The body dies and the person ceases to exist.

That's all fine and good but Christianity isn't a buffet where you can pick and choose what aspects you want to believe and discard the rest while ordering an a la carte side item to fill in the gaps. Christianity is all about being good girls and boys and when you die your soul goes to heaven. It's a major tenet of the entire belief system. It's your reward for not thinking for yourself and following the doctrine.

God created things with an intent. His purpose has been momentarily derailed.

He has done just enough (like the Flood) to make sure humanity as a whole can be saved.

How do you know his purpose or intent? If god is an omnipotent being then it's far beyond the understanding of any man. There are so many problems with the thought process involved in that last statement. If god wanted to safe humanity he wouldn't wipe out the entire population safe for one man a few of his sons and their spouses. Within a few generations the genetic abnormalities would be so profound amongst those few survivors offspring that they would have trouble reproducing. The level if genetic drift is nearly incomprehensible.

Causing a Deluge to save the only good man left on an evil world, or freeing a slave population are extreme measures. These things were done to achieve the Messiah who would save mankind.

There's absolutely no physical evidence of a singular worldwide flood event. Several smaller but still devastating regional and local flood events are well documented in the archaeological record and strata sure but at varying times over hundreds or thousands of years at some sites. That doesn't even get into the extreme improbability that the alleged ark could even float while empty key alone factoring in the weight of the animals or the ability to feed them all for many months. And the genetic abnormalities would be even more pronounced with faster onset in the animals because of the smaller numbers of only one breeding pair of each species.

There is even less evidence of the Exodus let alone the enslavement of the Hebrew people in Egypt. Juxtapose that with all the undeniable archaeological evidence of their enslavement in Babylon and that lack of evidence is rather indicative that the event in question never happened. With that many people wandering the desert for that long there would be so much there that there would be no way the most skeptical person could deny it. Plus why the heck did they wander the desert that long when they could have walked from Egypt to the Levant in a matter of weeks. The entire story is both implausible and illogical in my opinion which is too bad because it would be a fascinating part of our history to explore were it true.

He gave humans and animals procreative powers.

Every living organic thing on earth can procreate. From viruses to an amoeba to the redwood tree. We aren't special in that respect.

Humans, it seems, have chosen to act like animals.....

Not for nothing, but we are animals. More specifically, H. Sapiens are apes. Certainly we have more freedom in our actions than the rest of the animal kingdom but our base instincts and emotions are still there. Humans, despite our larger cerebrum, tend to still be rather emotional creatures going
with their gut instinct more than using their logic. It's kind of like saying gay men simply choose not to sleep with women(though that's a topic for a separate thread).

you people claim we pick and choose. lots of stuff we don't understand, but we, as christians admit it.
we try to be good, lol, don't you?
it's very funny when people make a definitive claim about something about God and stuff they have no clue about.
lol. pat post.

your 2 sentences nailed it, tho, about intent.

so now there is a claim genetic abnormalities started with noahs family, after the flood?
wow.

ever tried to find anything in the dessert?

flood? seems like there were many noah's. some written some not, i guess.

slave is a very fluid word, ya think? ideologically? financially? sexually? or were they working on cotton plantations?

which was it?

tsingtao

you people claim we pick and choose. lots of stuff we don't understand, but we, as christians admit it.
we try to be good, lol, don't you?

"We as Christians" admit you don't understand things? No offense, but that's a first for me. The usual party line from that camp is that the bible is the infallible word of god. I suppose whether I try to be good or not depends on your definition. I try to treat people with kindness and respect and act as what I feel is a good person.

it's very funny when people make a definitive claim about something about God and stuff they have no clue about.
lol. pat post.

I made no claims about god. I don't know if there is one or not. I simply have seen nothing to indicate there is one outside people's imaginations but I'm always open to new evidence. Everything else I wrote I actually do have a clue about so it's actually you who is speaking without a clue regarding my knowledge base.

so now there is a claim genetic abnormalities started with noahs family, after the flood?
wow.

Hold your shock and awe over this as its Not quite what I said. What I said was that if all the people in the entire world were killed except for Noah and his family as claimed in scripture then those 6 or 8 people and their descendants would be forced to inbreed as there were no other people alive to mate with. After a few generations the genetic abnormalities would have been extraordinarily pronounced making it impossible for humans to exist as they do today. The science behind this is completely sound and there is even a modern day example in Australia. Only in the Australian case there is an entire town not just a handful of people and the genetic drift over just 50 years was really detrimental to their health. It would most definitely have been more pronounced in the case of Noah's family with fewer people of breeding age. Facts are facts. Sorry.

ever tried to find anything in the dessert?

Yes and if the number of Semitic people involved in the exodus actually took place for 40 years there would be tons of evidence of their camps and travels.

flood? seems like there were many noah's. some written some not, i guess.

There were many tall tales, some written some not. There were no Noah's that existed outside of the fairy tale that can be tangentially proven let alone definitively.

slave is a very fluid word, ya think? ideologically? financially? sexually? or were they working on cotton plantations?

which was it?

Damned if I know. Ask the person I was responding to. They mentioned slaves. I gave a counter argument as to how unlikely the scenario is in my opinion based on available data and evidence of which there is none outside the OT/Torah. Read the story of Exodus and tell me what kind of slaves they were.

I was ready to spend a significant amount of time and effort on this thread but I see it would be futile.

Let the ignorant be ignorant.

On thing I would like to say though is;

if a real born again Christian is loving you enough to inform you of Gods word, the Bible ( I prefer to read the King James Bible ) and he is incorrect,
you have nothing to loose.

But, if he is correct then you are in serious trouble.

Also, the ones that say there is no evidence, you clearly choose not to look.
Let the ignorant be ignorant

I don't believe in Luck but you do so,
best of luck with what ever it is you think you know.