Stoning adulterers may once again be reinstated in Afghanistan.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

"Don't do it" also applies to adultery. Like I said before, he spared the woman to expose the Pharisees own sins. He did NOT discard the law or any of its contents. He used discretion and God-given authority to work around the law, but he did not discard the law.

Im sorry brother but you are clueless as to the message Jesus Gave... He discarded the laws of Moses on many occasions... and he didn't just "spare" the woman... That was basically a command

There is NO ONE without sin... On on this planet... Not a single person, even back in that day...

When he said Those without sin cast the first stone... he meant NONE of you can JUDGE her...

Luke 6:37
Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

Please read that again... and again

DO NOT JUDGE OR CONDEMN OTHERS....

Figure it out, its easy.

"The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the chair of Moses; therefore all that they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds; for they say things and do not do them. - Matthew 23:2-3

What were the authorities in Moses' seat, telling them about?
The law of Moses, which includes harsh punishments.

Why did Jesus tell them to do as they were told by the Pharisees? Because he acknowledged the law of Moses and the authority of the Pharisees. (He knew the Pharisees themselves don't do it, but thats a different story. Jesus revered the law, which unfortunately, the Pharisees were authorities on.)

Again you are completely clueless brother... You should spend more time reading the gospels and get your head out of that Koran...

Read all of Matthew 23... Not just a single verse

You CAN NOT take a single verse out of an entire chapter and forget the rest...

Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,

2 Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:

3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,

6 And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,

7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.

8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.

12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in

14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!.


17 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?

18 And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.

19 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?

20 Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon.

21 And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.

22 And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.

26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,

30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.

31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.

32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

Sorry about the length of that but YOU need to read the chapter... your understanding is severely lacking...

I will end with this...

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. - Matthew 5:17-18

And don't tell me that "everything was accomplished" when Jesus died on the cross. Heaven and Earth are still around.

And I will end with this....

The law Jesus was referring to was the law that has always been in place.... NOT mans law which is the law of moses...

Gods law.... which is the law of LOVE

reply to post by Akragon

Sorry about the length of that but YOU need to read the chapter... your understanding is severely lacking...

I know what I typed. Maybe you need to understand that the verses you quoted does NOT change the fact that Jesus asked people to do and observe as the Pharisees tell them.

The law Jesus was referring to was the law that has always been in place.... NOT mans law which is the law of moses...
Gods law.... which is the law of LOVE

Jesus criticized the Pharisees, but still asked people to listen to them. I don't know if that was a mistranslation or an error but its there in the Bible.

As for Gods law of "LOVE", Jesus made a clear reference to Moses and said people should listen to the Pharisees because they occupied the seat of Moses, i.e - they were authorities on the law. He was referring to the Gods law as given to Moses.

reply to post by FlyersFan

t was brilliant on his part. Obviously he didn't want anyone to follow the bloodthirsty law.
And if Jesus didn't want them following it ... then the law wasn't from God to begin with.

You claim Jesus didn't want anybody following the "bloodthirsty law"...
But we can see that Jesus taught the law was to remain till heaven and earth pass away.... AND instructed people to do and observe as the law-obsessed Pharisees told them to.

reply to post by wildtimes

Also, this occurred to me: Is it that you are saying "adulterers are swine"?

For someone who makes a fuss about people putting words into your mouth (even through an accidental misquote) you seem to have no qualms doing the same.

I didn't say "adulterers are swine", I referred to swine meat to make a point about Biblical law teaching against eating it. Yet, most Christians don't seem to have a problem with eating bacon.

sk0rpi0n
Yet, most Christians don't seem to have a problem with eating bacon.

that probably depends on which sect your dealing with? Christians are New Testament people, that is an Old Testament rule. to "eat" something in the bible means to make it part of you...

eat this knowledge, it will be sweet in your mouth but turn bitter in your stomach...

it refers I think to "to not eat/learn of" any detestable thing, and your soul will remain purer for it.

sk0rpi0n
You claim Jesus didn't want anybody following the "bloodthirsty law"...

I'm not 'claiming' anything. I'm stating it as FACT.

If Jesus wanted people to follow it, He would have picked up a rock and bashed the poor womans head in. But He didn't. He made it IMPOSSIBLE for anyone to follow it. NO ONE is without sin. NO ONE. Therefore, NO ONE can follow that disgusting bloodthirsty 'law' that people claim came from God but obviously did not. If that barbaric law came from God, Jesus would have bashed the womans head in ... but instead he told people not to do it.

But we can see that Jesus taught the law was to remain till heaven and earth pass away.... AND instructed people to do and observe as the law-obsessed Pharisees told them to.

I already gave you a Theology 101 lesson on that. Do you actually read scripture or just cherry pick it to try to fit your agenda? READ THE WHOLE STORY. The Pharisees and Sadducees were trying to get Jesus to say that no one should follow the law and that the law wasn't from God. They were trying to trick Him so they could kill Him. He BRILLIANTLY said ... sure, those without sin go ahead and follow that law. He got out of their trap and at the same time told people not to follow the law about stoning.

This is Christian basic theology.
This is why Muslims shouldn't be trying to tell Christians what Christianity teaches.
The Muslims don't get it. They don't understand Jesus at all.
Only someone indoctrinated in bloodlust wouldn't be able to see what Jesus did.

reply to post by FlyersFan

The Pharisees and Sadducees were trying to get Jesus to say that no one should follow the law and that the law wasn't from God.

Well you are sure busy saying it. Jesus wouldn't say it, and according to you He was without sin, and He knew - according to your version of the truth - that the law was all a lie - but He lied - according to you - and never said the truth (again according to you) about the law, and instructed His followers to follow the law, which was not from God and all a lie (according to you)

So speaking to you, Jesus was a liar and a sinner, instructing people to follow the law which was evil

Or - You just hate God.

I am going with the latter. It is unbelievable how many times you have essentially called God evil in this thread! I would expect that from an atheist, but not from someone who claims to be a Christian.

reply to post by FlyersFan

I already gave you a Theology 101 lesson on that

You mean like your theology 101 lesson on as to how Noahs ark isn't supported by science, but Jesus' corpse coming back to life is? No thanks!

That said, the rest of what you said doesn't really matter.

I'm not 'claiming' anything. I'm stating it as FACT.

Flyersfans opinions are NOT facts.

sk0rpi0n
That said, the rest of what you said doesn't really matter. ...
Flyersfans opinions are NOT facts.

Typical deflection and insults from you. Avoiding the facts and never admit you are dead wrong when proven so. And no .. it's not my opinion. It's FACT. You can't address the facts, can you? This is why Muslims can't tell Christians what Christianity teaches. They have no clue. ADDRESS THE ISSUES OR STOP BLATHERING ....

- The Pharisees wanted to trick Jesus into telling people not to follow the law so they could kill him.

- Jesus told the people to follow the law IF THEY WERE WITHOUT SIN.

- NO ONE is without sin. Therefore, no one could follow the law.

- It was brilliant on His part. And it shows that the original law isn't from God and that the law is WRONG.

- Did Jesus pick up a rock and bash the womans head in? NO. THAT is the law straight from God. The law of mercy and love. Bashing peoples heads in with rocks is obviously NOT a law from God. If it were, then Jesus and His mother would have picked up rocks and bashed the womans brains in.

Deal with the truth of that ....
And try admitting that you are wrong when proven so instead of running away like you usually do.
It would be a progressive change for the better.

ETA ... hey, when are you going to MAN UP and admit you were dead wrong about CHristians having to believe in Noahs Ark and Adam and Eve in order to be Christians? You were proven wrong ... and yet never admitted it but instead ran away while tossing insults .. just like you are doing here ....

reply to post by OpinionatedB

blah blah blah off topic insults and avoidance of the facts.
Knock it off. Address the issues.

Again .. this is why Muslims shouldn't be telling Christians what Christianity says.
They are clueless and have NO IDEA Who Jesus is or what He taught.

- Jesus didn't lie. He told them to follow the laws IF THEY WERE WITHOUT SIN.

- NO ONE is without sin and therefore NO ONE should be bashing someones' head in with rocks.

- If God had really sent that law, then Jesus and Mary would have picked up rocks and bashed in the brains of that woman. They didn't. Therefore, the law of 'stoning' isn't from God.


You muslims are supposed to follow what Jesus says.
I suggest you actually learn something about your 'prophet'.

OpinionatedB
It is unbelievable how many times you have essentially called God evil in this thread!

You need to take lessons in basic reading skills. Either that or learn how not to tell lies.

No where did I call God evil.

I said that obviously the 'laws' of the old testament about stoning people aren't from God.
If they were from God, then Jesus would have picked up a rock and started the stoning himself.
But he didn't. And since Jesus is from God, then obviously GOD HIMSELF is telling people
not to stone others to death.

reply to post by FlyersFan

Jesus told the people to follow the law IF THEY WERE WITHOUT SIN.

Please provide the chapter and verse, where Jesus said "follow the law IF THEY WERE WITHOUT SIN". Oh wait, it doesn't exist. You lie as usual. Nevermind.

All the NT tells me is that Jesus spoke to the Pharisees, a people he had a problem with. Nonetheless, he instructed his people to "do and say" as the Pharisees told them to.

hey, when are you going to MAN UP and admit you were dead wrong about CHristians having to believe in Noahs Ark and Adam and Eve in order to be Christians?

99% of other Christians believe in Noah, Adam and Eve and all those other OT figures you dismiss as myth.
You are the one who needs to defend your beliefs. While you are at it, provide some scientific proof of corpses coming back to life.

reply to post by FlyersFan

But he didn't. And since Jesus is from God, then obviously GOD HIMSELF is telling people
not to stone others to death.

Again, please provide the exact verse where Jesus said he was "God himself".

You can't because it doesn't exist. Again, you lie about the own bible.

Anyone who supports this can not call themselves civilized ...

Civil LIberties - Death by Stoning

History: Stoning is arguably the world's oldest form of execution. It is as old as written literature, and the most common death penalty described in the Bible (prompting Jesus' famous anti-death penalty statement in John 8.7: "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"). Although it has never been a legal form of execution in the United States, it is practiced elsewhere in the world, primarily in the Middle East and sub-Saharan Africa.

Unsavory Overtones: Stoning is primarily enforced by Islamic fundamentalist sharia law, often for bizarre reasons. In 2004, 13-year-old Zhila Izadyar was sentenced to death by stoning in Iran for the "crime" of being raped by her older brother. Although the sentence was later overturned due to international outcry, equally horrific stoning sentences are quietly carried out throughout the developing world on a regular basis.

How It Works: The prisoner is buried either up to his waist (if male) or up to her shoulders (if female) and then pelted with stones by a crowd of volunteers until obviously battered to death. Under the terms of most fundamentalist courts, the stones must be small enough that death cannot reasonably be expected to result from only one or two blows, but large enough to cause physical harm. The average execution by stoning is extremely painful, lasting at least 10 to 20 minutes.

Bashing in the head of another human being ... taking at least 10-20 minutes for death ...

What a bloodthirsty bunch of unthinking, knuckle-dragging, NEANDERTHALS.

Disgusting and frightening behavior.
And their thought process (if you can call it that) in this matter is surreal.

sk0rpi0n
Please provide the chapter and verse, where Jesus said "follow the law IF THEY WERE WITHOUT SIN". Oh wait, it doesn't exist. You lie as usual. Nevermind.

ALREADY DID.
Like I said ... pathetic. This is why Muslims shouldn't try to tell Christians what the bible says.

Again - JOHN 8:7 - Jesus said "Let any of you without sin cast the first stone".

Jesus knew full well that no one would ever be without sin and therefore no one should ever stone a person.

Romans 3:23 - for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

Isaiah 64:6 We are all infected and impure with sin. When we display our righteous deeds, they are nothing but filthy rags. Like autumn leaves, we wither and fall, and our sins sweep us away like the wind.

1 John 1:8-10 - If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Romans 5:12 - Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned.

99% of other Christians believe in Noah, Adam and Eve and all those other OT figures you dismiss as myth.

LIAR. You've been proven wrong on that time and time again - on your own thread.
ATS Thread - Being Christian While Dismissing O.T. Figures

sk0rpi0n
Again, please provide the exact verse where Jesus said he was "God himself".

Already did. Many times. YOU believe Jesus is a prophet FROM GOD. And being from God, Jesus would do what God would want ... and since Jesus didn't bash the womans head in with a rock and he told others not to do it, then obviously it's GOD who doesn't want people bashing peoples heads in with rocks. You can't get around that your prophet Jesus said not to do it.

You can't because it doesn't exist. Again, you lie about the own bible.

GROW UP. It's there. Nearly all of Christianity - who obviously know the bible MUCH better than you do - sees that it's there. Stop your off topic deflections and insults and address the issue of stoning a person to death .. if you are capable. (which is questionable)

reply to post by FlyersFan

Like I said ... pathetic. This is why Muslims shouldn't try to tell Christians what the bible says.
Again - JOHN 8:7 - Jesus said "Let any of you without sin cast the first stone".

Jesus telling the Pharisees that is NOT the same as Jesus telling the people "follow the law IF THEY WERE WITHOUT SIN".

But keep lying to yourself anyway.

YOU believe Jesus is a prophet FROM GOD. And being from God, Jesus would do what God would want .

I asked for a quote where Jesus said he is "God Himself".
You can't provide that quote because Jesus never said that,
Pretty much all prophets did what God would want. That doesn't make them God.

Nearly all of Christianity - who obviously know the bible MUCH better than you do - sees that it's there.

Most Christians believe in Adam and Noah. They would tell you that you are wrong on Adam, Noah and Moses and all those OT folks you dismiss.

So don't invoke other Christians when they would call YOU a false Christian and a hypocrite.

Anyone who would support this is insane. Indoctrinated into insanity.

National Post - Anatomy of a Stoning

I won't post the graphics. It's too disturbing.
Click on the link to see the size of the rocks used.
Click on the link to see how the person is tied up and buried up to their chest.
Click on the link to see how these people behave worse than animals in their blood lust.

reply to post by FlyersFan

LIAR. You've been proven wrong on that time and time again - on your own thread.

At best, you spewed out your opinion on the OT prophets. It doesn't amount to proving me wrong.
99.9% of Christians, even those who I disagree with.... would still call you a false Christian.

Now, If you know of a single mainstream church that shares your own beliefs on Noah, Abraham, Moses, post it here. And no, don't go register the churchofflyersfan.com and post it here as proof. Heh.

sk0rpi0n
Jesus telling the Pharisees that is NOT the same as Jesus telling the people "follow the law IF THEY WERE WITHOUT SIN".

It absolutely is. Learn how to read.

But keep lying to yourself anyway.

Actually you are lying to yourself and everyone else. It's a desperate attempt to hang on to your Muslim indoctrination in the face of facts that run counter to it. Pretty sad.

I asked for a quote where Jesus said he is "God Himself".

Already did in other threads and I'm NOT going to allow you to go into off topic deflection.
It's a tactic you use when you are trapped and can't address facts.

Pretty much all prophets did what God would want. That doesn't make them God.

And Jesus, being from God and being a 'prophet' according to you, would do what God wants.
And He CLEARLY showed very clearly that God doesn't want people stoning others to death.

Most Christians believe in Adam and Noah. They would tell you that you are wrong on Adam, Noah and Moses and all those OT folks you dismiss.

Again .. LIAR ... dead wrong. Your own thread showed that.

So don't invoke other Christians when they would call YOU a false Christian and a hypocrite.

Again ... LIAR ... dead wrong. Your own thread showed that. And I most certainly WILL bring other Christians into the conversation. YOU claimed that they would all say that they literally believe in Adam and Eve or Noah, etc. The facts show otherwise.

GET ON TOPIC. Stop the attempts at insults and off topic deflections.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

You are delusional. No wonder you support the barbaric practice of stoning a person to death.
Disgusting. And more than a little frightening.