Stoning adulterers may once again be reinstated in Afghanistan.

Stoning adulterers? New Afghan law could bring back Taliban-era punishments.

"We are working on the draft of a sharia penal code where the punishment for adultery, if there are four eyewitnesses, is stoning," said Rohullah Qarizada, who is part of the sharia Islamic law committee working on the draft and head of the Afghan Independent Bar Association.

Billions have been invested on promoting human rights in Afghanistan over more than 12 years of war and donors fear that hard won progress, particularly for women, may be eroding.

Mmm hmm, sure. Thats why billions were invested not because of the Trasn-Afghan pipeline, lithium, opium and natural gas reserves, but I digress.

Now, for the sake of scoring some easy stars and flags, I could simply bash these "barbaric Moslems" and spout a few other common themes: they're going to take over our countries, eat our babies etc (I'm not going to lie, I did consider it ).

But I actually wanted to have a discussion, specifically about the religious aspect since this is a religious issue.

Looking at these religious texts, the Bible (including the OT) and the Koran, we find that there are a bunch of crimes punishable by death, including adultery. For now, we'll put aside the concept of Grace and focus on "the Law" (predominantly in the OT).

My question is, if both these books call for the death penalty for, in this case, adultery, why is it that the Moslems are the only ones who actually follow or want to follow these "laws"?

Is it simply that they are monstrous barbarians who havent evolved past the silliness that existed when these books were originally written?

Or is that they actually believe that these are the words of God to be taken literally?

I would venture to guess that its the latter.

I'm not saying these punishments arent barbaric. I'm saying that the books themselves and by extension, the religions are barbaric.

See the paradox?

First these books tells us that these are the words and commands of God. When one group of followers obeys these orders, we call them crazy...

Well done USA UK and allies!
Not only has opium production gone through the roof-but laws the taliban would endorse are creeping back in.
We really did a great job of bringing Democracy to Afghanistan didn't we?
We now have a drug trafficking extremist kleptocracy in power,with the probability that the taliban will take back power after the allies lower their numbers of soldiers
And it only cost us a few thousand of our young soldiers lives,plus untold billions of money.

Really well done Blair and Bush-history will judge you as war hungry murderous traitors to your people,which is all you deserve IMO.

reply to post by gladtobehere


I don't know about the rest of you, but if i caught my wife with another man, I'd probably have worse things in my mind than a stoning.

Being quite honest, worrying over what these people do won't help me pay a bill. I'm sure they're disgusted with lots of ideas and issues that we've got going on in the west.

reply to post by gladtobehere


I think that the muslims rather ask why was the Law left behind? Just because paul said so? And romans didnt consider adultery wrong. The western world is basically based on roman law.
The punishment is extreme to make it a deterent rather than to show brutality and the Law urges to err on the side of "not guilty"
"its better to let go 10 criminals than punish a single innocent wrongly"

even the american constitution borrows a lot from Qur'an and Sharia. There's an effige of Muhammad pbuh holding the Qur'an in US Supreme Court, showing the law givers that helped shape the constitution.

So its not barbaric, as its aim is to make a family oriented, responsible society rather than individualistic, pleasure oriented society where individuals don't care about breaking families just to pursue their urges.

Ok, now I must enlighten some people. Those penalties were only for the Israelites, there were no gentiles present at Mt. Sinai/Horeb, those laws were designed to show the Israelites whom were chosen to be the priests of the nations, that all of humanity were doomed if even a holy people could not keep those laws. That without a Savior we're all hopelessly screwed.

The New Testament was written to show that a new era had begun, that forgiveness of our transgressions was within our grasp and that hope had been given to the hopeless, and all we have to do is call on [I]his[/I] name. Call on Yeshua.

You don't have to lift a finger, a man or woman's sins will eventually catch up to them and destroy them, unless they repent (change their minds about sinning), their resolve withers away until nothing but a hedonistic animal remains. Their morality and conscience no longer prohibits them from engaging in things that are detrimental to their life, health and well being.

reply to post by logical7

The punishment is extreme to make it a deterent rather than to show brutality

Yet it is not a deterent. Adultery still goes on, it doesn't stop sinners and we're all sinners and subject to temptation and adultery still goes on even in sharia compliant states.

So its not barbaric, as its aim is to make a family oriented, responsible society rather than individualistic, pleasure oriented society where individuals don't care about breaking families just to pursue their urges.

So the law doesn't work. If the law worked we wouldn't have prisons filled with hundreds of thousands of deviants. The law is perfect yet it doesn't work because the human component fails. The human component fails because we have a nature to sin.

If you stone an adulterer, then you should stone yourself to death because we all have sinned and will sin again and one sin is not greater than another in that the wages of sin is death. If you put yourself under the law then you have no idea what you're up against because it condemns mankind as a whole and you have no idea how to keep it in it's entirety, in every way it is meant to be kept. Even King David and Solomon failed to keep it and David was a man after he Lord's heart. Fools playing with concepts and have no idea what they are about and what they entail.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


what I basically hear you saying is that "because all fail to keep the law from time to time, the law should be just abandoned"
Does that even make sense? Except ofcourse to a christianised mind!
Its like saying that because many end up jumping a red light, so nobody should be fined and Jesus pbuh will pay all the tickets.

There cannot be any society without laws and you are mixing sins and crimes, they maybe one and the same many times. Yes God can forgive sins or hide them(like some adulterers never being discovered) but if crimes that degrade the society are not checked then the society is doomed to decay and pass away and get replaced by people who manage to implement better laws and justice to keep a sustainable society. Be that criminal laws, economic laws, civil laws etc

Is it not dumb to become demonic (create even greater sin) to stone someone for having sex with someone else than you promised to have sex with?

Any priest who can stone another soul and create a greater sin against god than what have been done is not a priest of god but off the other side.

And if the marriage is forced on the woman due to obligation to family against the womans free will, then the marriage was not sanctioned by god anyway since it is what god say what matters and not what priests thinks.

The only way a woman can make true adultery is if she was truelly in love with the man she married and the 2 promised that the 2 should be as one whole for this life.

And what should happen here is for god to decide not the priests. You are allowed to create societies where the person are told to leave the community for adulterating with some of her possessions to have a certain cohesion in the society.

reply to post by logical7

what I basically hear you saying is that "because all fail to keep the law from time to time, the law should be just abandoned"

Then you need to clean your ears out, or your eyes. I'm talking about sins in general, some of which land people in prison.

You're advocating murdering people because they cannot restrain their sexual urges, yet I guarantee you that you have sinned more than once in your life and if you claim you haven't then you're sinning again. One sin is not greater than another for all sins come with the penalty of the second death unless your advocate is Christ. If you're going to cast stones at people, then you need to cast them at yourself as well. That's how Jesus made the Pharisees drop their stones when they wanted to murder the adulteress, by bringing their attentions to their own sins and the penalty they would face themselves.

That's what Christ is talking about in Matthew 7:1-5

1“Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. 3 And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye? 5 Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

This is the concept of reaping what you have sewn. So the next time you have a desire to pick up a stone to throw at someone, just remember your day is coming when you stand before God, if he doesn't make you pay for it before then.

reply to post by gladtobehere


Maybe people aren't aware here of what they consider adultery. Under strict Sharia, it is adultery if a man simply looks at a woman without her headscarf...but it isn't adultery for him to pay her $20 for the night in a "marriage".

Adultery according to them can be anything the woman does. A man may leave his three wives, go on Hajj to Mecca, pay the woman and it not be considered adultery. Do you know how many different types of marriages there are in Islam? Four.

Nikah

Nikah ufi

Nikah al-Mutah

Nikah Misyar

Mutah is the $20 type of marriage, that happens everywhere in the Muslim world. We call it prostitution, but they call it marriage, because it is a contract...well, an oral contract is still a contract, and that is still prostitution, but they cleverly try to call it something else. And there's no adultery on the part of the man.

Mut'ah marriages are not counted towards a man's maximum allowed number of wives. Read more: www.ehow.com...

The stoning is against women who do not agree to Mutah. Then it is called adultery.

Misyar, that's also very cleverly covered up by another name, because under Misyar, a man can have a wife in another country, that he doesn't even have to see all the time, sometimes not for years at a time. But here, we call that a mistress, who is kept.

Nikah 'urfi is simply a means of cohabitation

Nikah 'urfi marriages are not seen as valid Muslim marriages and no options for divorce or protections exist for those entering into this type of marriage. Only Egypt has passed laws to grant partners of a 'urfi marriage the right to divorce. Additionally, Nikah 'urfi marriages do not give couples the right to live together.

The men in Islam have it made, they can go on Hajj, "marry" a woman for the duration of Hajj then go home to his other wives, and no adultery whatsoever. But the woman, is bound to the man in Misyar, even if she never sees him again. And she can never get married again, not even for Mutah. But if she is raped, then it is adultery.

Women are being stoned because of a double standard. Men, it's only adultery if he tried to pay a woman for Mutah and she was in another type of marriage already, even Misyar of 'urfi and had not seen her husband for years.

reply to post by WarminIndy


Thank you for that information. Now can we hear from the others how this can be considered family oriented, responsible society rather than individualistic, pleasure oriented society where individuals don't care about breaking families just to pursue their urges .

To me it seems to be a very pleasure oriented society for men to wants to pursue their urges while making sure their women do not do the same. Hypocrisy. Any men who is with another woman while married (one wife not several) and wants to stone women for this should be stoned themselves.

Some people have no clue what they are seeding and what they probably will reap from it.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

You're advocating murdering people
because they cannot restrain their
sexual urges, yet I guarantee you that
you have sinned more than once in
your life and if you claim you haven't
then you're sinning again. One sin is not greater than another for all sins
come with the penalty of the second
death unless your advocate is Christ.

I am not claiming to be sinless you ofcourse are free to create a strawman.
I also wonder how you try and judge Islamic ideas by seeing them through christian prespective.
Its like if I was an atheist, i would say, "there is no 2nd death, and death is the end so no need for any advocate"

I am simply stating that any society requires laws to function.
You do that by having secular man made laws which are dictated by majority and are not necessarily right especially "if" there are God given laws.

That's how Jesus made the Pharisees drop their stones when they
wanted to murder the adulteress, by
bringing their attentions to their own
sins and the penalty they would face
themselves.

except the fact that this story is a later addition and not found in the earliest manuscripts. So did that really happen or was made up?
And I do know that Jesus pbuh said that the Law wouldn't change an iota till the heavens and earth pass away.

If God gave scriptures to prophets, why would He not also give the rules and laws to establish and run a just and godly society?
How can that law be discarded till there is a society to be run?
Most likely the only ones who benefited by it were the romans who were ruling and made the laws and wouldn't like a competing jewish law to exist.

@warminIndy
i don't know from where you bring these perverted ideas. I may have heard them being practiced in Iran but i guess some poster from there can shed light on it.
And Iran is not a representative of Islam or muslims, its a tiny minority.
It would be like me bringing some things that Jehova's witness do and say that this is what christians do.
You are misleading people who are ignorant and anyways eager to jump on anything bad about islam.
Its funny the perverted agendists leading the blind and then proving that Islam and muslims are bad

Stone someone to death for adultery. Mindless caveman mentality.
Pretty damn stupid. These idiots need to EVOLVE a little.

SIGMUND FREUD -
Civilization began the first time an angry person cast a word instead of a rock.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

If you're going to cast stones at people, then you need to cast them at yourself as well. That's how Jesus made the Pharisees drop their stones when they wanted to murder the adulteress, by bringing their attentions to their own sins and the penalty they would face themselves.

Jesus said "let he without sin cast the first stone" to deal with a bunch of people he knew were a bunch of hypocrites. He wanted to bring their attentions to their own sins because they had those sins in the first place, not because he was against the law that he said was to remain "till heaven and earth pass away".

So the next time you have a desire to pick up a stone to throw at someone, just remember your day is coming when you stand before God

So why have man-made laws in place then? By your logic, we should just let murderers and rapists run free.

What about judges who sentence criminals to death or jail?

logical7
I am simply stating that any society requires laws to function.

1 - Civilized society requires JUST laws to function.
2 - You aren't 'simply' doing anything except defending that which shouldn't be.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Well, what about the 10 Commandments? Are they meant to be followed?

FlyersFan

logical7
I am simply stating that any society requires laws to function.

1 - Civilized society requires JUST laws to function.
2 - You aren't 'simply' doing anything except defending that which shouldn't be.

Are you calling your civilization JUST and Civilized?
I hope not.
I think your society needs Islam if it wants to survive.
USA was much better a few dacades to abt 50 years before because it had just laws.
Now i cannot say the same.

Sharia is not only about stoning and chopping even if you want to believe and propogate it.

Sharia aims at transforming society into a Just civilization and especially caring about the weakest section, the poor and orphans.
If all the super rich gave 2.5% of their wealth in compulsory charity then the problem of world hunger would be solved.

Stoning for adultery is a God given Law and it cannot be changed, even Jesus pbuh did not directly say not to do it. (althought the authenticity of that story is doubtful)

but nobody has to be stoned, the simple solution is don't do it(adultery)!!!
People who commit adultery are destroying two families, affecting the well being of the kids if any, making the society drift towards irresponsible, selfish individualism.
And like i have said that a society that starts decaying from the inside will not last, if the society becomes hedonistic and godless, it would just fade away...

reply to post by logical7

WOW. That kind of unciviilized mentality can't be reasoned with.
The fact that you defend stoning a person to death says a lot.
Thank God that most of the world rejects Islamic rule.
We would be doomed to ignorance and slavery to a fictional story if forced to live by it.

SIGMUND FREUD -
Civilization began the first time an angry person cast a word instead of a rock.

FlyersFan
reply to post by logical7

 

WOW. That kind of unciviilized mentality can't be reasoned with.
The fact that you defend stoning a person to death says a lot.
Thank God that most of the world rejects Islamic rule.
We would be doomed to ignorance and slavery to a fictional story if forced to live by it.

SIGMUND FREUD -
Civilization began the first time an angry person cast a word instead of a rock.

edit on 11/29/2013 by FlyersFan because: (no reason given)

I think civilization began when a group agreed to follow a certain set of rules/laws. One of which is sure to be that spouses are out of reach and singles can only "marry" singles.

I see adultery as a big sin/crime and I guess you would agree to this.
So whats better than to make it punishable by death to prevent it from happening?
Why do you see it as a crueltry after the act has happened rather than a deterent before it had happened?
Ofcourse I understand that if that law is applied in USA right now then stones would be needed to be imported.

In Afghanistan, adultery is not really a problem and the law is just there to keep it that way.

Your imagination that hundreds of afghans would be stoned brutally every week once the law comes in effect is just your imagination.
Your assumption that afghan couples secretly desire to be as promiscuous as the westerners in general is also just an assumption.
You see, muslims in general still believe that there is no sex outside marriage as you also believe, so no epidemic of adultery unlike at your place.

SIGMUND FREUD -
Civilization began the first time an angry person cast a word instead of a rock.

logical7
I think civilization began when a group agreed to follow a certain set of rules/laws.

There have been UNJUST and IGNORANT rules and laws for thousands of years.
Just because there is a rule doesn't mean it's civilized. Violence in law is de-evolved.

Your imagination that hundreds of afghans would be stoned brutally every week once the law comes in effect is just your imagination.

If even ONE person gets stoned to death ... for ANYTHING ... it's uncivilized and wrong.

And considering how pathetic the Sharia laws are ... how stacked against women ... it would be very easy for the men to run around claiming the women committed adultery just so he could be rid of a woman he's tired of and so he could move on. The laws are stacked against women. It would be a slaughter.

For humans to stone each other to death is behavior that is lower than the animals.
Even animals know better than to murder their mates.
Adultery is a violation of a legal agreement and therefore it is punished in a court of law.
Using brain power .... WORDS .... and bank accounts ... and legal means.

To murder a person who slips and commits adultery is barbaric.
It gives the adulterer no way to learn from his/her mistakes.
Its cruel. It's uncivilized.
Its' over-the-top and isn't a measured response to the violation of marriage contract.

THERE IS NO GOOD REASON TO SUPPORT STONING A PERSON TO DEATH ... EVER