Stoning adulterers may once again be reinstated in Afghanistan.

logical7
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

Like Jesus pbuh said, "..wicked and adulterous generation.."

who do you think he would address that way when he returns?

And

WarminIndy

Logical, you did it again. Yes, you are of the wicked and adulterous generation because you wickedly commit adultery with Allah.

Alright, alright, alright! Context, folks!

The "wicked and adulterous generation" referred to are those seeking signs, who will be given no sign but that of Noah or Noe, however you prefer to spell it.

It's the folks reading Revelations and prophecy and whatnot, and trying to find an easy out, trying to predict God's timetable so they know when to ask for forgiveness (as if THAT'S gonna work out well for them!).

It's not about whose chucking rocks at whom. The folks chucking rocks are too tied up in the error of the moment to worry over prophecy.

We seem to be running a bit far afield here, and trying to sling whatever handful of mud is handy.

wildtimes
reply to post by logical7

 

I posed these statements and questions to OpB,
I've got no response from her (yet).

...

So tell me: do they? Can a Muslimah refuse to allow her husband to take another wife? As simply as she can refuse to allow a bottle of beer into the house?

She won't answer it, I think, but I will.

In Islam, the first wife CAN veto any future wives. She has the power of saying yea or nay. If he does so anyhow, then she has grounds for divorce. She will likely have to forfeit her mahr, but that's the extent of it.

Now, concerning the bottle of beer, our situation is... unusual. She can say "no beer in the house", and I can say "My ass! That's YOUR law, not mine!" and bring it on anyhow. With that said, there would be repercussions, same as in a christian sort of marriage. we'd likely be talking couch time here, or sleeping on the porch for a while, same as any other wife does to get her payback when she gets... peeved. I reckon the choice is still mine, but as with all choices regardless of religion there would be repercussions. It's a matter of just how hard headed I want to be, and how bad I want a beer.

In all honesty, I just don't do it out of simple respect. I've put my time in as a drunk anyhow, got that all out of my system young. Don't need it no more, don't want it. if I just want to make myself dizzy until I puke, I'll stand in the middle of the room and spin in circles.

Likewise with the "living under the same roof with too many women". On a couple different occasions I've lived with 3 women at a time. It got... hectic. There are the petty jealousies to consider, and you know that their...ummm, "cycles"... synchronize over time, right? Well, with 3 of 'em, we're talking some SERIOUS couch time, and no peace to be had for a week or so at a time. Not my idea of fun to be had by all! Hell, after a day or two of that, a guy WANTS to sleep on the porch!

SO - please don't be giving her any ideas of a "second wife". I know many hands make the work lighter and all that, but I've always maintained that any man that thinks he can handle more than one woman at a time is an idiot, and I can back that up with cold hard experience. Two or more women under the same roof never works out well.

Akragon
reply to post by nenothtu

 

Actually John said "God is love"

That isn't taken out of context... because theres only one context

I beg to differ here. yes, John did say that, but the quote in isolation IS out of context.

It's a strange sort of "pure love" that allows some of the things the Bible says God allowed, and it's a strange sort of "pure love" that hates Esau while loving Jacob.

Therefore, there MUST be more to it than a single quote in isolation, limiting God to a single, simple attribute.

Of course, if God IS love, and only love, then the heathen sort of Christians would be right, and we can all ride our own coat-tails into heaven on a technicality.

One can hope, I suppose.

nenothtu

Akragon
reply to post by nenothtu

 

Actually John said "God is love"

That isn't taken out of context... because theres only one context

I beg to differ here. yes, John did say that, but the quote in isolation IS out of context.

It's a strange sort of "pure love" that allows some of the things the Bible says God allowed, and it's a strange sort of "pure love" that hates Esau while loving Jacob.

Therefore, there MUST be more to it than a single quote in isolation, limiting God to a single, simple attribute.

Of course, if God IS love, and only love, then the heathen sort of Christians would be right, and we can all ride our own coat-tails into heaven on a technicality.

One can hope, I suppose.

One must be careful which books they believe to be truthful though... Why did God "hate" Esau?

Simple answer, he didn't... God loves all of his children... the good and the bad ones alike...

The OT are the books of a false God... the proverbial wolf in sheeps clothing... The so called "god" who says "do what I say, not what I do"

OF course God is much more then Just love... But love is what brings us to him...

Things like hatred, jealousy, envy, and Wrath are not of God... they are purely human emotions...

boymonkey74
reply to post by nenothtu

 

I find all religion barbarous, as I do anyone being put to death.
The fact that many states in the USA have the death penalty disgusts me.
But stoning people to death is mob justice and is wrong.
You been on the sauce btw?

Yup, I been on the sauce. Had a wild and misspent youth. I've seen times when I went for six months or so at a time never seeing a sober instant. Went to work and college, maintained a job and all, through all that. I'd some days have to go out back at work and puke up my toenails just to keep going, then go right back in and back to work.

In retrospect, it wasn't as much fun as I thought it would be, but I had things to run away from. I found that you can't run from them, oblivion doesn't help. They still come for you, oblivion or not. Being drunk and at a disadvantage when they come isn't helpful at all. You just have to face 'em like a man, and stare 'em down if you can.

It was my son that stopped me. Oddly enough, before he was ever born. When my wife at the time decided she wanted to have kids, I stopped cold turkey on New Year's Day, 1994, after ripping off a serious drunk the night before. Growing up, my dad was often drunk, too. I didn't want that life for MY kids, and took proactive steps to head it off.

My son was born in the spring of '95, and has never, EVER had to babysit me drunk. Sometime what you are running TO takes priority over what you are running FROM. The boy probably saved my life, and may never even know it.

End of story.

Now back to our regularly scheduled religious argument! Sorry for the OT, but it does show that I don't get all of my thinking out of a dusty old book. Been there, done that, checked it off.

ALL mob justice is wrong. That's why we don't have democracy in America. Not all death penalties are wrong, but it seems pretty harsh a penalty for adultery, to me. For murder, I could see the death penalty. For rape I could even see it. But for breaking someone's heart? Please! Get over it, pick up the pieces of your heart, and move on to someone else yourself, someone who will deserve you and appreciate you. Chucking rocks at the miscreant may make you feel better in the short run, but in the long run it'll leave a hole in your soul that no one else will ever be able to fill, and then NO ONE will deserve or appreciate you!

if there is payback to be had, then as I said before let God handle the payback. He's better equipped to deal with it, while you get on with living well as the best revenge.

reply to post by nenothtu


Well said good sir... I've heard that having a child can change your life...

I only hope one day I will be blessed with at least one...

Don't worry about the OT thing... SOOOOO many people have been indoctrinated by the thoughts of the OT in this world... in fact most that have been raised around Christianity believe God is a tyrant... its really sad

Even athiests will spout off about the OT at times... yet few see the reality of it...

The gnostics knew about the false God of the OT... and they were exterminated because of it...

In reality the OT keeps our species down... it promotes hatred

reply to post by Akragon


Well, yes, the books one sees as valid will have an influence on then way they think, which is the crux of the issue here, really. One says their book is superior, and another says nuh uh, MINE is.

Picking and choosing our books to base our philosophies on will result in that sort of thing. It's inevitable. Also inevitable that two different people adhering to different books will not see eye to eye on much of anything if that's all they base their philosophies upon.

I respect you, your opinions, and perhaps most of all your education in the matter, but that is not the same as saying I'll dump my philosophy in favor of yours. I just respect your right to see things differently, and the path you trod to arrive at that. I've walked a different path, that's all.

I cannot embrace the "God loves everyone" philosophy, because what I have seen tells me otherwise. I expect that what YOU have seen probably confirms it to your satisfaction.

Different paths.

I DO believe that "God loves all his children", I just don't believe we are all God's children. Whether I myself am is a matter I will have to take up with him in due time. If it turns out poorly, it was nice knowing you. I have confidence, however, because the faith I hold (and the things I see which confirm it for me) tells me I am on the right track, That does not mean I think you are n the WRONG one, it means that I think you are on the right one for YOU.

There is nothing wrong with loving everyone and letting God sort out the sheep from the goats. I wish everyone could, including myself. Love never sent anyone to hell.

It never chucked a rock at anyone, either.

reply to post by nenothtu


"but I've always maintained that any man that thinks he can handle more than one woman at a time is an idiot, and I can back that up with cold hard experience"

I once had 4 different girlfriends and they all found out and the 4 of them put me in hospital with concussion lol.

Back to the OP..I agree with you it isn't up to us lot to judge anyone let the big guy sort it out.

reply to post by nenothtu

I cannot embrace the "God loves everyone" philosophy, because what I have seen tells me otherwise. I expect that what YOU have seen probably confirms it to your satisfaction.

Actually its quite the opposite... IF I took that philosophy from what I've seen in the world, God hates most people... but I know better... All the horrible things that happen in the world, and to people good and bad are a result of our own actions...( or lack there of ) Previous lives affect the current incarnation greatly

Those who refuse to learn in this life are doomed to repeat their mistakes, in this life or the next...

God does love all his children... but as children, we do not always listen to the Father... and the result is consequence...

Its really cause and effect.... what one causes will be returned... so if we act in a loving manner towards all of our brothers and sisters, the effect returned to us is positive as well

reply to post by Akragon


I always thought God as a woman myself, she gave birth to the universe.
Funny that before all the male religions humanity followed female Gods, but the Men didn't like this so made up male war like Gods.

boymonkey74
reply to post by Akragon

 

I always thought God as a woman myself, she gave birth to the universe.
Funny that before all the male religions humanity followed female Gods, but the Men didn't like this so made up male war like Gods.

perhaps... I don't personally think God has a gender...

I only say he because Jesus called him Father... So I do the same...

Though I prefer just simply using "God"... that being the word that shows the most reverence

Akragon
reply to post by nenothtu

 

Its really cause and effect.... what one causes will be returned... so if we act in a loving manner towards all of our brothers and sisters, the effect returned to us is positive as well

You know, in light of this statement, and because I was thinking as I was making a pot of coffee (the little woman is a bit under the weather, and as a big boy, I sometimes CAN do stuff for myself - mum's the word, though - don't tell her!), I have to amend one of my previous statements. It galls me to be untruthful, and I wasn't entirely honest - even with myself in making it. The statement is this:

There is nothing wrong with loving everyone and letting God sort out the sheep from the goats. I wish everyone could, including myself. Love never sent anyone to hell.

It never chucked a rock at anyone, either.

As a matter of fact, I HAVE chucked rocks - or some very rock-like things, albeit smaller and faster - at people out of love. No, it wasn't love for the targets. it wasn't hate for them, either. it was love for other folks, and having to do what I could to keep them safe.

Now, I didn't hate those folks, but I sure didn't love 'em, either. Still, love was a factor in the situation. There are very few people who've ever walked the planet that I could truly say I "hate", and it's not a good feeling when I did. The fires of hate may keep you warm at night in the short term, but in the long term they will consume you entirely, and so can never be a good thing.

You've got to let hate go, or it will kill you dead, burn you to a cinder. It will destroy not only you, but everyone around you, including the ones you love, and your relationship with them. They may not be a target, but they sure do catch the fallout.

As you say, there are consequences. The things you do in life will have their effects on you, whether love or hate was involved. The only difference is that if it's love, not everyone around you has to pay the price, only you. If you splash a little love n them, it has much less ill effect than if you splash a little of your hate on them.

Last 4th of July, I was in a new city, with a new wife. Now, I've seen some 4th of July celebrations, but never anything like this town! I swear to God it sounded exactly like a young war around here, complete with shots (even some that sounded like full auto fire), mortars, the whole nine yards. What was worse, it sounded like it was coming from the south, and walking right straight for me. I was having flashbacks like you wouldn't believe. Never said a thing about it, and pretty much all I could do was jerk and twitch with every boom. I finally just curled up in the bed in a ball, and covered my ears as best I could, but you can feel those explosions right inside you, right inside the middle of your chest. Something about the air pressure suddenly changing I reckon. Sometimes you can even feel them when you can't hear them, if you know what you're feeling.

Now here's the thing. My wife never said anything about it. Not a word. No reproach, no pity. Nothing. No "what the hell is wrong with you? It's only fireworks!" She still hasn't mentioned it to this day. What she DID was curl up with me, wrap her arms around m and hold me until the shaking stopped and I went to sleep. Never a word was said.

Now THAT is love. Knowing where I've been, what I've done, she still offered comfort.

She ain't a Christian, true enough, but I tell you right now that I've never run into a Christian who could or would do that. Most prefer to call me a "murderer". I'd rather they threw rocks at me, the ingrates.

I've paid for what I've done, over and over, and will continue to pay for it until I breathe my last. if I had it to do over again, I'd do the same, even knowing the outcome and the price to be paid.

It's a funny thing when a MUSLIM woman shows how CHRISTIANS ought to act, and gives a practical demonstration of the unconditional love they claim their God has, but which they are so lacking in themselves.

It's a strange world some times. I think I'll keep this one. She seems to think I'm not broken beyond repair, and sees something that for the life of me I can't see. One can only hope that is what God is like, in spite of what the Christians preach.

Akragon

perhaps... I don't personally think God has a gender...

I only say he because Jesus called him Father... So I do the same...

Though I prefer just simply using "God"... that being the word that shows the most reverence

I usually refer to God as "It", so as not to assign a gender to what I believe is essentially genderless. Depending on who I'm talking to, I may refer to it as "he", since that is their own frame of reference, but it's not meant to limit God to one gender or the other. Genders are necessary for mortal procreation, but God transcends that, embodying the essence of BOTH, and more. Even limiting it to a duality of genders is still a limitation.

Really, calling God a "he" or a "she" implies another God of another gender, in order to procreate. That sort of duality is not necessary in a being who transcends all that.

reply to post by Sahabi

I honestly do not think Islam's adultery teachings, edicts, or punishments are from the Most High.

And I honestly don't care about your assumptions about the Most High.

reply to post by Sahabi

For the meantime, we are talking about Islam. We are talking about humans being violently oppressive to other humans.

Islam isn't going around bombing and invading other countries in this day and age.

But then again, you don't think human governments violently bombing and invading other humans counts as being "oppressive".

sk0rpi0n
Islam isn't going around bombing and invading other countries in this day and age.

don't worry... they are only after the men.

sk0rpi0n
Islam isn't going around bombing and invading other countries in this day and age.

OFF TOPIC DEFLECTION. Don't play Islam as innocent ... it looks ridiculous.
Islam goes around bombing and murdering other Muslims because of religion.
Islam goes around screaming 'death to non-muslims' and 'behead those who insult Muhammad' because of religion.
Islam goes around calling for people to be stoned to death for adultery because of religion.
Your mantra 'the west bombing and invading' isn't the topic. Try to stay on topic for a change.

Did your 'prophet' Jesus pick up a rock and bash in the head of the adultering woman? NO.
Did the mother of Jesus, Mary, pick up a rock and bash in the head of the woman? NO.
Therefore, the law is NOT from God. If it were, your 'prophet' would have done it.
Try to use some common sense.

nenothtu
So your god has no laws?
It must be really easy to be you!

Snarky. That's not what I said. Strawman.
The question was ... what laws will Jesus impose when He returns?
My answer ... I know that he won't impose stoning people to death (the topic of the thread).
Because if He approved of it, he would have stoned the woman caught in adultery.
As for what laws would God impose when Jesus returns .... we'll just have to wait and see.
Since Jesus preached love above all else, I assume it would be 'love based'.
But most likely none of us will be here when Jesus returns anyways ....
SO it's just guess work.

nenothtu
Thanks for the how-to lesson, but I'm really not planning on stoning anyone in the near future. If however, I ever DO plan to stone someone, I'll be sure and refer back to your instruction manual.

This thread is about stoning people to death. It is keeping to the topic of the thread to post information showing exactly what stoning a person to death entails. It shows exactly what OpinonatedB, Logical, and Skorpion are saying is 'the law of God' . It is appropriate to the thread.

I'm not sure why you are being snarky about having the information posted.

reply to post by nenothtu

WarminIndy presented a peaceful thing that people could do for others ... pray for them.
It is a MUCH better thing to call people to do than to go stone others because they don't
believe the same as you do. If you wish to think that Christianity is barbaric, that's your
choice. However, Christians TODAY aren't stoning people to death over religion ... Muslims are.
And that's the topic of this thread .... it's 2013 and people are still stoning each other to death.
If you wish to start a thread about how barbaric you think Christians are because they
commemorate Jesus murder from 2000 years ago ... go right ahead. But this thread is
about stoning adulterers to death in the here and now. If you find information about
Christians or Buddhists (etc) stoning adulterers to death, now in 2013, we'd be interested in seeing it.