Does God and his --- Obey or Die law--- say that Christians are to be slaves forever?

WarminIndy

Greatest I am

WarminIndy
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

That is like saying "Satan save us, God is beating up on me, big bully God".

If Satan were so concerned, then why didn't Satan sacrifice himself? No wait, it was Satan who was saying "you can go ahead and eat free forever, don't worry, I got it for you". Did Satan pay the bar tab?

That's funny, the one saying you should keep getting it all free, wasn't the one who paid the ticket for you to ride...

You might want to quote what you are speaking to. I have no idea what you are on about as you do not have any quote.

I think you are embracing the barbaric human sacrifice of Jesus and the notion that you should accept a free ride into heaven at the cost of the torture and death of an innocent man. And you think that moral do you?

I am not an atheist but Satan and Christians want atheists to embrace barbaric human sacrifice and the notion that we should profit from punishing the innocent instead of the guilty and here you are preaching for Satan. Shame on you.

In reality, if God did demand such a barbaric sacrifice, he would be sinning.

He would know that barbaric human sacrifice is immoral.

You do too. Right?

Those with good morals will know that no noble and gracious God would demand the sacrifice of a so called son just to prove it's benevolence.

When you die, Satan will ask you; How was your ticket to heaven purchased? With innocent blood?

When you say yes, you become his.

Regards
DL

And that's what you fail to understand, Jesus offered Himself. Would you then call His own self-sacrifice barbaric?

You know, for every person who runs into buildings to save others, every person who jumps into rivers to pull out drowning children and every person who jumps in the line of fire, they should all be considered barbaric sacrifices, because no one can offer themselves to save another, is that right?

I offer great respect to those who sacrifice themselves for others but your analogy is faulty as Jesus sacrificed himself to himself to appease his own wrath.

Jesus and or God condemned us and are the enemy. They are not our friends.

That is more like Jesus starting a fire and then going in to save someone. He is more of the villain of the story than the hero.

Only barbaric pricks with no morals will embrace human sacrifice as moral or try to profit from the punishment of the innocent instead of the guilty.

Think of becoming an adult.

www.youtube.com...

Regards
DL

greyer
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

To me, the power of the universe in the creation that is happening right now has to be created because nature acts according to time. So to learn or understand that, whether you want to be dark or light is free rather than to perceive reality in the delusion of ego.

Huh?

And this relates to what?

Why is your ego just a delusion?

Regards
DL

Rex282

AfterInfinity


If anyone is responsible for anything, it is God.

Yes ...you are correct. God is responsible (in both meanings) for everything.

AfterInfinity
You cannot name God as ruler of the universe and in the same breath exempt him from all accountability.

correct again however God is not accountable for what a "man" does..the man is.Everyone is 100% accountable for ALL they do.There are no pardons from "guilt" ...Christianity teaches God is pardoning everyone from their guilt if they believe a religious doctrine by "forgiveness" and that is not true in the least.

Gods forgiveness means "freedom from bondage"(of the imperfect nature of man..immaturity)..and it's part of a process not an event.It falls under the process of "salvation"/deliverance....growth..all the religious rhetoric is false.

edit on 26-11-2013 by Rex282 because: (no reason given)

What is imperfect about man's nature?
Is it not mostly all instinct driven?
What is wrong with man's instincts?

Regards
DL

AfterInfinity
reply to post by Rex282

 

So in your opinion, the scientist who created Frankenstein was innocent?

How much shall I bet on the reply speaking about free will?


When he does, point out to him that Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by whipping out their favorite "free will!", or “ it’s all man’s fault”.

That is "God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy."

But this simply avoids God's culpability as the author of Human Nature. Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.

If all sin by nature then, the sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not sin.

Regards
DL

Greatest I am

Rex282

AfterInfinity


If anyone is responsible for anything, it is God.

Yes ...you are correct. God is responsible (in both meanings) for everything.

AfterInfinity
You cannot name God as ruler of the universe and in the same breath exempt him from all accountability.

correct again however God is not accountable for what a "man" does..the man is.Everyone is 100% accountable for ALL they do.There are no pardons from "guilt" ...Christianity teaches God is pardoning everyone from their guilt if they believe a religious doctrine by "forgiveness" and that is not true in the least.

Gods forgiveness means "freedom from bondage"(of the imperfect nature of man..immaturity)..and it's part of a process not an event.It falls under the process of "salvation"/deliverance....growth..all the religious rhetoric is false.

What is imperfect about man's nature?
Is it not mostly all instinct driven?
What is wrong with man's instincts?

Regards
DL

It's not just mans nature it is "all" of creation that is "born" imperfect and can never become "perfect".Many of the words in scriptures are "lost" in translation.They are either inaccurate, or manipulated for an agenda or the meaning is not the same or approached from an out of context angle.

Sin means missing or falling short of the mark of perfection.To be perfect is to be "matured"..perfection as in ZERO flaws EVER is impossible and again it isn't just moral or ethical which religion worships as the be and end all of everything.Perfect's main impetus is on growth into maturity.Maturity isn't an event it's a process....Yet "sin" has come to mean evil moral or ethical action exclusively instead of that is just a few of the many ways immature people act.For Christians that is the definition in a concordance like Strongs.Then the pastor/preachers promulgate that meaning and false doctrines arise just as they always do in religion.

Man wasn't created perfect regardless of what Christianity "believes" the scriptures say.Adam (which is man) didn't fall from perfection to "sinfulness" by rebellion thus the creator God condemned him to death.Man was created immature..everything is....it grows in stages.One of the stages is always death.The physical realm is the valley of the shadow of death...not the mountain top of life.Man sins (is imperfect /immature) because he is GOING to die.

Mans instinct is at the core of immaturity because it is self survival... law of the jungle...I ,me,mine.Maturity is when man follows and acts with mature intuition.Instinct is animal (beast) nature.Intuition is for lack of another term"spirit"instinct is natural intuition is developed by growth.It is "natural also" because that is the CORE core of mankind.It is very underdeveloped.That growth is caused by something "not of us". However it has ZERO to do with religion.

Instinct in and of itself is not necessarily moral or ethically evil.Instinct is necessary to cause the early growths stages(and other things). Without the primal instinct we would probably die with very little outside influence.As with everything it is the perversion of the nature of somethings purpose that is the problem.

Religion is the antithesis of growth it's what impedes and is at the core of sin.I,me,mine....ALL of mans religion is they are God(no matter what they think they do or do not believe).They "believe" they are the masters of their own reality and destiny(regardless of what they say they believe).Mans intuition does not grow by any form of religion,philosophy , psychology or higher "christ consciousness" meditation, prayer,church going et etc... all methods are futile and do nothing to cause maturity.They are deceptive panaceas that are steps back because the practitioners thinks it's forward.

Rex282

Greatest I am

Rex282

AfterInfinity


If anyone is responsible for anything, it is God.

Yes ...you are correct. God is responsible (in both meanings) for everything.

AfterInfinity
You cannot name God as ruler of the universe and in the same breath exempt him from all accountability.

correct again however God is not accountable for what a "man" does..the man is.Everyone is 100% accountable for ALL they do.There are no pardons from "guilt" ...Christianity teaches God is pardoning everyone from their guilt if they believe a religious doctrine by "forgiveness" and that is not true in the least.

Gods forgiveness means "freedom from bondage"(of the imperfect nature of man..immaturity)..and it's part of a process not an event.It falls under the process of "salvation"/deliverance....growth..all the religious rhetoric is false.

What is imperfect about man's nature?
Is it not mostly all instinct driven?
What is wrong with man's instincts?

Regards
DL

It's not just mans nature it is "all" of creation that is "born" imperfect and can never become "perfect".Many of the words in scriptures are "lost" in translation.They are either inaccurate, or manipulated for an agenda or the meaning is not the same or approached from an out of context angle.

Sin means missing or falling short of the mark of perfection.To be perfect is to be "matured"..perfection as in ZERO flaws EVER is impossible and again it isn't just moral or ethical which religion worships as the be and end all of everything.Perfect's main impetus is on growth into maturity.Maturity isn't an event it's a process....Yet "sin" has come to mean evil moral or ethical action exclusively instead of that is just a few of the many ways immature people act.For Christians that is the definition in a concordance like Strongs.Then the pastor/preachers promulgate that meaning and false doctrines arise just as they always do in religion.

Man wasn't created perfect regardless of what Christianity "believes" the scriptures say.Adam (which is man) didn't fall from perfection to "sinfulness" by rebellion thus the creator God condemned him to death.Man was created immature..everything is....it grows in stages.One of the stages is always death.The physical realm is the valley of the shadow of death...not the mountain top of life.Man sins (is imperfect /immature) because he is GOING to die.

Mans instinct is at the core of immaturity because it is self survival... law of the jungle...I ,me,mine.Maturity is when man follows and acts with mature intuition.Instinct is animal (beast) nature.Intuition is for lack of another term"spirit"instinct is natural intuition is developed by growth.It is "natural also" because that is the CORE core of mankind.It is very underdeveloped.That growth is caused by something "not of us". However it has ZERO to do with religion.

Instinct in and of itself is not necessarily moral or ethically evil.Instinct is necessary to cause the early growths stages(and other things). Without the primal instinct we would probably die with very little outside influence.As with everything it is the perversion of the nature of somethings purpose that is the problem.

Religion is the antithesis of growth it's what impedes and is at the core of sin.I,me,mine....ALL of mans religion is they are God(no matter what they think they do or do not believe).They "believe" they are the masters of their own reality and destiny(regardless of what they say they believe).Mans intuition does not grow by any form of religion,philosophy , psychology or higher "christ consciousness" meditation, prayer,church going et etc... all methods are futile and do nothing to cause maturity.They are deceptive panaceas that are steps back because the practitioners thinks it's forward.

I do not see much to argue here except for your first sentence which is not intelligent at all.

Try to understand the following.

I like to use the term evolving perfection for nature. Otherwise, a perfect God or nature becomes a stagnant pool of information and our souls and consciousness as a part of that perfection would be useless to the universe.

Evolving, the perfection of whatever God and nature was, to whatever God and nature will be, means we have to think this way, unless you see God as somehow losing his initial perfection. This is not allowed in a perfect God’s or natures repertoire.

When this was written, most thought it to just be a cynical view of life but I think it is quite true and irrefutable, based on the anthropic principle and pure logic.

What do you think?

Candide.
"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”

www.youtube.com...

This is done by nature and not a God but would be a requirement of a God if he were real.

Regards
DL

Greatest I am

NewAgeMan
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

Christianity and the work of Christ is all about liberation and freedom that we might be set free for the sake of freedom to freely love as we are loved.

There is no need for a socio-political structure, in heaven. God's love and it's unassailable and indomitable reason forms it's own self governance.

It's very funny and beautiful and magnificent, but some are at odds with it, and who would, if they could place God in the dock and subject him to a false judgement, I certainly wouldn't want to be in the shoes of that prosecuting attorney!

You better hope for your sake that God has a great sense of humor and a very very deep well of mercy.

I am sure God has a sense of humor.

I am sure he laughs every time he sends the vast majority of us to purposeless torture in hell. It is the laugh of an insane God who is far less than any human.

Regards
DL

Wrong God.

Remember too, "Greatest I am", that the devil wants to trade places with God, not be released or forgiven, but to switch, and that's precisely what you want to do also... to deep six Jesus' Abba the God of Love.

That's why I said that his good humor must be matched by the depth of his mercy, for the sake of someone like you, who wishes to be HIS judge.

It's very funny, from the right POV..

reply to post by Greatest I am


I think the reason we are inclined towards sin is because of our precarious position, standing on the one hand, next to the very Godhead, and on the other, at a crossroads of duality. Jesus represents the solution as the tree of life (non dual) in the forgiveness of sin, and in theory, liberation into a new way of life where the compulsion to sin falls away making of the sinner a work in progress on the path of progress towards perfection. Understanding this predicament, God himself planned, in advance, for the resolution by which we would not be orphaned or separated from His Holiness or Goodness and Love, because God is all-good and can therefore make no compromise with sin and evil ie: God is not corrupt, and he did not, demonstrating at the cross, the twin pillars of the tree of life in a height of Justice matched only by it's tender Mercy.

Just because some people can't handle the fact that they're not on the moral high ground and are thus offended in their pride and arrogance and ignorance/stupidity doesn't make it any less functional or formative, and evolutionary.

Greatest I am

Try to understand the following.

I like to use the term evolving perfection for nature. Otherwise, a perfect God or nature becomes a stagnant pool of information and our souls and consciousness as a part of that perfection would be useless to the universe.

Evolving, the perfection of whatever God and nature was, to whatever God and nature will be, means we have to think this way, unless you see God as somehow losing his initial perfection. This is not allowed in a perfect God’s or natures repertoire.

When this was written, most thought it to just be a cynical view of life but I think it is quite true and irrefutable, based on the anthropic principle and pure logic.

What do you think?

Candide.
"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”

www.youtube.com...

This is done by nature and not a God but would be a requirement of a God if he were real.

Regards
DL

None of what I wrote is about philosophy.Leibniz concept of optimistic determinism has valid points of good and evil however like all philosophy it is the product of an eras zeitgeist.The line you quoted is from Candide that was written by Voltaire as satire on Leibniz book on determinism. Voltaire was a Newtonian .

Even though I respect the great writers and thinkers such as Leibniz and Voltaire.. I was not writing of that.I was not trying to promulgate a philosophy only make statements of truth.Good and evil are subjective terms.If they were objective then philosophy would be more like science.The scriptures say the creator God is the author of good and evil....That can be construed 7 billion ways.Subjectivity of good and evil is a red herring running down a rabbit trail.

However... what can be observed is the basis of the process of the growth of the physical realms life .It ALWAYS starts immature and grows "toward" maturity(entropy has a part in this also however it's a hornets nest) .Some things "maturity" are more defined than others however for the most part that is a subjective observation of the 5 "w's" however an objective observation is things that are born are immature (not grown) and if the process isn't impeded by death and annihilation... grows in maturity.

That is what my main point is.It is describing the state of sin (immaturity) and the process of maturity (salvation).For the most part it is only observational after the fact.No one can make themselves mature by "watching(observing by measurement) themselves grow.Our observation is skewered because of the process of growth.That is at the essence of salvation.The observation of "growth" actually makes it something else....which has a natural lead in to quantum mechanics.

The double slit experiment proves that when the material shot through the double slits are observed(by measuring) they are particles or waves...never both and it is impossible to determine which it will be. The observation of measuring alters the outcome that can never be consistently accurately predicted.

The bottom line fact is man is born immature..sinful..imperfect.There are a multitude of factors in there most of which(all) we have zero control over.The natural process is to grow toward maturity.This maturity is NOT perfection.Nothing is perfection(a state of infinite being) except the creator.The growths in maturity is based in math...a ratio... a relationship to the creator....unity..ONE.The "sign" of this is the Golden ratio Phi/phi
1:0618...........=phi
1:1.618..........=Phi

Phi/phi is the "perfect number in a ratio with "One" unity..the creator..

The beauty is Phi/phi is an irrational number.It never "resolves" it is "infinite like Pi(3.141592..... infinity)

A mathematicians Phi/phi is

0.618033988749895...=phi
1.618033988749895...=Phi

dividing "1" by Phi=phi
dividing "1" by phi=Phi

1/ 0.618033988749895=1.618033988749895....
1/1.618033988749895=0.618033988749895.....

no other number sums to this.It is the "perfect/mature ratio (relationship) of "1"(the creator) to man.Phi/phi is the "sign"(and math evidence) that maturity is a never ending process.Everything is growing and will continue to grow.It starts in immaturity
1:0.666............
1:1.666.............

666 is the number of the beast of man in Rev 13:18.It isn't "evil" it is the beginning stages of Phi/phi.In the physical realm 1:0.666 is considered phi...however the purpose (the best of all possible worlds) will be "growing" to 1.618.........infinity.

That's why in the very next verse the 144 thousand stand before the throne of God as the first fruits(the first to mature) into the Kingdom of God.All of this "math" truth is based on the Fibonacci number(Fn) sequence
Fn3=2
Fn4=3
2/3=0.666.....

Fn11=89
Fn12=144
89/144=0.6180555555555....

Fn13/Fn12
233/144=1.61805555555.....

this is where 618 Phi/phi begins to"stabilize" to infinity.Fn12=144 is the key "number"....btw 0(Fn0),1(Fn1) and 144(Fn12) are the only perfect squares of their Fn of ALL the infinite Fn.

0²=0
1²=1
12²=144

At Fn37/Fn38and Fn39/Fn39 it hits "mathematical Phi/phi

Fn37/Fn38
24157817/39088169=0.618033988749895....

Fn39/Fn38
63245986 /39088169=1.618033988749895.....

...the Fn continue for infinity to spin out a "new" number that always begins with 618......the Golden ratio(that's why gold is always symbolic of a relationship in scripture)

The creator has left no stone unturned.Everything works out "perfectly" like Phi/phi which are the golden ration yet are irrational numbers...Things don't just end and "round out"...they continue to infinity.

reply to post by Greatest I am


Ego, the way you perceive and think about the world is keeping you from being free. Ego, is also the reason why you blame other things for keeping us or you away from freedom.

Study more of the eastern philosophy. It will teach you that most of the way you perceive the world around you through your ego is actually a delusion.

reply to post by Greatest I am


Any luck trying to disproove Christianity yet? Wow you really got some kinda crazy chip on your shoulder.

So are we denying the slave scripture, or defending it?

NewAgeMan

Greatest I am

NewAgeMan
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

Christianity and the work of Christ is all about liberation and freedom that we might be set free for the sake of freedom to freely love as we are loved.

There is no need for a socio-political structure, in heaven. God's love and it's unassailable and indomitable reason forms it's own self governance.

It's very funny and beautiful and magnificent, but some are at odds with it, and who would, if they could place God in the dock and subject him to a false judgement, I certainly wouldn't want to be in the shoes of that prosecuting attorney!

You better hope for your sake that God has a great sense of humor and a very very deep well of mercy.

I am sure God has a sense of humor.

I am sure he laughs every time he sends the vast majority of us to purposeless torture in hell. It is the laugh of an insane God who is far less than any human.

Regards
DL

Wrong God.

Remember too, "Greatest I am", that the devil wants to trade places with God, not be released or forgiven, but to switch, and that's precisely what you want to do also... to deep six Jesus' Abba the God of Love.

That's why I said that his good humor must be matched by the depth of his mercy, for the sake of someone like you, who wishes to be HIS judge.

It's very funny, from the right POV..

edit on 28-11-2013 by NewAgeMan because: (no reason given)

Have you not judged God yourself?
Yes you have. You have judged that he is God and that he is good.
Yet even as reciprocity is a part of your belief system, you would deny me doing what you have done.

That is not moral but just another example of how your religion has corrupted your morals.

Regards
DL

NewAgeMan
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

I think the reason we are inclined towards sin is because of our precarious position, standing on the one hand, next to the very Godhead, and on the other, at a crossroads of duality. Jesus represents the solution as the tree of life (non dual) in the forgiveness of sin, and in theory, liberation into a new way of life where the compulsion to sin falls away making of the sinner a work in progress on the path of progress towards perfection. Understanding this predicament, God himself planned, in advance, for the resolution by which we would not be orphaned or separated from His Holiness or Goodness and Love, because God is all-good and can therefore make no compromise with sin and evil ie: God is not corrupt, and he did not, demonstrating at the cross, the twin pillars of the tree of life in a height of Justice matched only by it's tender Mercy.

Just because some people can't handle the fact that they're not on the moral high ground and are thus offended in their pride and arrogance and ignorance/stupidity doesn't make it any less functional or formative, and evolutionary.

edit on 28-11-2013 by NewAgeMan because: (no reason given)

Some just cannot think further than their corrupted bible.

Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by whipping out their favorite "free will!", or “ it’s all man’s fault”.

That is "God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy."

But this simply avoids God's culpability as the author of Human Nature. Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.

If all sin by nature then, the sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not sin.

Regards
DL

Rex282

Greatest I am

Try to understand the following.

I like to use the term evolving perfection for nature. Otherwise, a perfect God or nature becomes a stagnant pool of information and our souls and consciousness as a part of that perfection would be useless to the universe.

Evolving, the perfection of whatever God and nature was, to whatever God and nature will be, means we have to think this way, unless you see God as somehow losing his initial perfection. This is not allowed in a perfect God’s or natures repertoire.

When this was written, most thought it to just be a cynical view of life but I think it is quite true and irrefutable, based on the anthropic principle and pure logic.

What do you think?

Candide.
"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”

www.youtube.com...

This is done by nature and not a God but would be a requirement of a God if he were real.

Regards
DL

None of what I wrote is about philosophy.Leibniz concept of optimistic determinism has valid points of good and evil however like all philosophy it is the product of an eras zeitgeist.The line you quoted is from Candide that was written by Voltaire as satire on Leibniz book on determinism. Voltaire was a Newtonian .

Even though I respect the great writers and thinkers such as Leibniz and Voltaire.. I was not writing of that.I was not trying to promulgate a philosophy only make statements of truth.Good and evil are subjective terms.If they were objective then philosophy would be more like science.The scriptures say the creator God is the author of good and evil....That can be construed 7 billion ways.Subjectivity of good and evil is a red herring running down a rabbit trail.

However... what can be observed is the basis of the process of the growth of the physical realms life .It ALWAYS starts immature and grows "toward" maturity(entropy has a part in this also however it's a hornets nest) .Some things "maturity" are more defined than others however for the most part that is a subjective observation of the 5 "w's" however an objective observation is things that are born are immature (not grown) and if the process isn't impeded by death and annihilation... grows in maturity.

That is what my main point is.It is describing the state of sin (immaturity) and the process of maturity (salvation).For the most part it is only observational after the fact.No one can make themselves mature by "watching(observing by measurement) themselves grow.Our observation is skewered because of the process of growth.That is at the essence of salvation.The observation of "growth" actually makes it something else....which has a natural lead in to quantum mechanics.

The double slit experiment proves that when the material shot through the double slits are observed(by measuring) they are particles or waves...never both and it is impossible to determine which it will be. The observation of measuring alters the outcome that can never be consistently accurately predicted.

The bottom line fact is man is born immature..sinful..imperfect.There are a multitude of factors in there most of which(all) we have zero control over.The natural process is to grow toward maturity.This maturity is NOT perfection.Nothing is perfection(a state of infinite being) except the creator.The growths in maturity is based in math...a ratio... a relationship to the creator....unity..ONE.The "sign" of this is the Golden ratio Phi/phi
1:0618...........=phi
1:1.618..........=Phi

Phi/phi is the "perfect number in a ratio with "One" unity..the creator..

The beauty is Phi/phi is an irrational number.It never "resolves" it is "infinite like Pi(3.141592..... infinity)

A mathematicians Phi/phi is

0.618033988749895...=phi
1.618033988749895...=Phi

dividing "1" by Phi=phi
dividing "1" by phi=Phi

1/ 0.618033988749895=1.618033988749895....
1/1.618033988749895=0.618033988749895.....

no other number sums to this.It is the "perfect/mature ratio (relationship) of "1"(the creator) to man.Phi/phi is the "sign"(and math evidence) that maturity is a never ending process.Everything is growing and will continue to grow.It starts in immaturity
1:0.666............
1:1.666.............

666 is the number of the beast of man in Rev 13:18.It isn't "evil" it is the beginning stages of Phi/phi.In the physical realm 1:0.666 is considered phi...however the purpose (the best of all possible worlds) will be "growing" to 1.618.........infinity.

That's why in the very next verse the 144 thousand stand before the throne of God as the first fruits(the first to mature) into the Kingdom of God.All of this "math" truth is based on the Fibonacci number(Fn) sequence
Fn3=2
Fn4=3
2/3=0.666.....

Fn11=89
Fn12=144
89/144=0.6180555555555....

Fn13/Fn12
233/144=1.61805555555.....

this is where 618 Phi/phi begins to"stabilize" to infinity.Fn12=144 is the key "number"....btw 0(Fn0),1(Fn1) and 144(Fn12) are the only perfect squares of their Fn of ALL the infinite Fn.

0²=0
1²=1
12²=144

At Fn37/Fn38and Fn39/Fn39 it hits "mathematical Phi/phi

Fn37/Fn38
24157817/39088169=0.618033988749895....

Fn39/Fn38
63245986 /39088169=1.618033988749895.....

...the Fn continue for infinity to spin out a "new" number that always begins with 618......the Golden ratio(that's why gold is always symbolic of a relationship in scripture)

The creator has left no stone unturned.Everything works out "perfectly" like Phi/phi which are the golden ration yet are irrational numbers...Things don't just end and "round out"...they continue to infinity.

Well, if you insist on miss-using the word sin, then we have nowhere to go.

You did not refute that Candid quote and without doing so you have nothing to back your view unless you stop miss-using words.

Regards
DL

reply to post by Greatest I am

Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by whipping out their favorite "free will!", or “ it’s all man’s fault”.

That is "God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy."

One cannot simultaneously claim omniscience and absolve themselves of responsibility for foresight. Similarly, one cannot simultaneously claim omnipotence and absolve themselves of responsibility for action.

We were given these weaknesses by the same entity whose creations exploit them. There is no possible way to deny that God foresaw our fall and meant for it to happen, even before the universe existed. To claim otherwise is to deny his omniscience or his omnipotence, which is to admit the fallibility of such an entity and all authorities claiming his infallibility.

This is logic. Pure, unadulterated logic. And this is the reason I laugh in the face of anyone who dares to suggest that they comprehend such a being even as they demonstrate their ignorance.

Am I to conclude that the question in my previous post has been indirectly answered? We are ignoring the slave scripture which consigns all believers and unbelievers to slavery of one sort or another?

greyer
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

Ego, the way you perceive and think about the world is keeping you from being free. Ego, is also the reason why you blame other things for keeping us or you away from freedom.

Study more of the eastern philosophy. It will teach you that most of the way you perceive the world around you through your ego is actually a delusion.

To suggest to someone that they need years of study is garbage from the mouth of a fool.

Regards
DL

spartacus699
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

Any luck trying to disproove Christianity yet? Wow you really got some kinda crazy chip on your shoulder.

Christianity has never proven itself so there is nothing to disprove. All I do is point to it's deficiencies.

And yes, I have a chip on my shoulders.

It is my view that all right wing literalists and fundamentals hurt all of us who are moral religionists, --- as well as those who do not believe. Literalists hurt their parent religions --- and everyone else, be he a believer or not. Literalists and the right wing of religions make us all into laughing stocks. Their God of talking animals, genocidal floods and retribution has got to go. So must beliefs in fantasy, miracles and magic. These are all evil.

www.youtube.com...

They also do much harm to their own.

African witches and Jesus
www.youtube.com...

Jesus Camp 1of 9
www.liveleak.com...

Death to Gays.
www.youtube.com...

For evil to grow my friends, all good people need do is nothing.
Fight them when you can. It is your duty to our fellow man.

If you do not develop that chip on your shoulders then you are not much of a man.

Regards
DL

AfterInfinity
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by whipping out their favorite "free will!", or “ it’s all man’s fault”.

That is "God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy."

One cannot simultaneously claim omniscience and absolve themselves of responsibility for foresight. Similarly, one cannot simultaneously claim omnipotence and absolve themselves of responsibility for action.

We were given these weaknesses by the same entity whose creations exploit them. There is no possible way to deny that God foresaw our fall and meant for it to happen, even before the universe existed. To claim otherwise is to deny his omniscience or his omnipotence, which is to admit the fallibility of such an entity and all authorities claiming his infallibility.

This is logic. Pure, unadulterated logic. And this is the reason I laugh in the face of anyone who dares to suggest that they comprehend such a being even as they demonstrate their ignorance.

Am I to conclude that the question in my previous post has been indirectly answered? We are ignoring the slave scripture which consigns all believers and unbelievers to slavery of one sort or another?

edit on 29-11-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

My kingdom for such eloquence to go with my logic.
I wish there was an app like you available. I could express my thinking better.

Ignore is what Christians have to do to maintain their faith in their genocidal son murderer.
That is the double moral standard that will send them to hell.

Regards
DL

reply to post by Greatest I am


You are in some deep doodoo my friend.