Chemtrail Forum and the T&C.

originally posted by: James1982
So will this same level of scrutiny be leveled against the chemtrail followers? What is defined as an insult?

I'm not being difficult for the sake of being difficult, it's an honest question.

Countless times I've seen chemtrail followers be very insulting with their tone when people ask simple questions or ask for verification of statements made.

It pretty much ALWAYS goes like this:

Chemtrailer: There is xxx and yyy being sprayed on us

Poster A: Where is the proof

Chemtrailer: you stupid brainwashed sheep the proof is in the sky!

Then poster A gets defensive, and the whole thing devolves into trash.

If you really want to stop that, and encourage meaningful discussion, you need to have a heavy hand in moderating the pushers of these ideas. If you challenge someone's idea, ask for evidence, or provide evidence disproving their statements, they loose their minds and freak out. You cannot honestly deny this happens over, and over, and over again in the chemtrail forum.

If your goal is truly to solve the problem of threads getting out of hand, placing the blame on the shoulders of debunkers isn't going to help you with anything. I could post 50 threads right now of chemtrailers refusing the follow the rules of this site (posting sources, proof of statements, etc) then they get all emotional, and go around reporting everyone that disagrees with them.

Do you think if you took away people's posting ability when they refused to provide evidence for their statements it would cut down on bickering in threads? I'd be a million bucks it would. I wonder why that isn't being done. Instead just blame the people asking for proof and showing contrary evidence who get frustrated when OPs refuse to behave in a mature and logical manner.

Additionally any site that openly allows children to discuss such in depth and controversial topics in the same forum as adults is going to have HUGE problems. As proven by every forum on ATS where immature kids try to talk down to educated adults just because they saw a youtube video and are now an expert.

This whole "provide proof or be subject to insult" movement happening on ATS is disturbing. How do you find proof of something that is kept secret from most of government and operates on a black budget? I am not singling out chemtrails, there are many topics where this happens.

There are topics out there that there will NEVER be proof to support. Does that mean the topic should NEVER be discussed?

a reply to: MALBOSIA

How do you find proof of something that is kept secret from most of government and operates on a black budget?

In the case of "chemtrails", the evidence would not be hidden in some secret location. They claim the evidence is sprayed virtually all over the world, everyday. If they are spreading the evidence all over the sky as claimed, believers could go and get some. Why don't they?

originally posted by: DenyObfuscation
a reply to: MALBOSIA

How do you find proof of something that is kept secret from most of government and operates on a black budget?

In the case of "chemtrails", the evidence would not be hidden in some secret location. They claim the evidence is sprayed virtually all over the world, everyday. If they are spreading the evidence all over the sky as claimed, believers could go and get some. Why don't they?

I was pretty clear that I was not singling out chemtrails and the mods were clear about this thread not being a chemtrail debate. My question was pretty cut and dry.

a reply to: MALBOSIA

I was pretty clear that I was not singling out chemtrails

I am. You asked

How do you find proof of something that is kept secret from most of government and operates on a black budget?

I answered. The "chemtrail" conspiracy theory is different from most other conspiracy theories. To claim the evidence is kept secret while believing that very same evidence is sprayed throughout the sky is baffling.

ETA

and the mods were clear about this thread not being a chemtrail debate.

I'm not debating "chemtrails", I'm debating the notion that evidence would not be openly available. Of course there are many conspiracy theories where evidence might not be within reach. "Chemtrails" isn't one of 'em.

originally posted by: MALBOSIA
This whole "provide proof or be subject to insult" movement happening on ATS is disturbing. How do you find proof of something that is kept secret from most of government and operates on a black budget? I am not singling out chemtrails, there are many topics where this happens.

There are topics out there that there will NEVER be proof to support. Does that mean the topic should NEVER be discussed?

On the contrary, they should ALWAYS be discussed, and in a particular manner that includes the following:

1. providing detailed explanation why certain factual evidence is not possible to obtain

2. explaining why specific available facts are not relevant

3. explaining why what has the appearance of solid logic is actually quite faulty

4. exposing firm conclusions when they are unjustified because of additional missing information

5. Pointing out when matters of fact are being confounded with ONLY the facts that support one side of an argument

6. alerting moderators to tactics of ridicule, off topic drift, and sheer banter between the people who care only about the "facts" that they care about.

7. by keeping in mind matters of geoengineering and chemtrail conspiracies are not only matters of pure "fact" and are also a matter of ethics (even if some believe all matters should be disguised as matters of pure fact).

8. by distinguishing what is real "fact" from what is actually social reality. See HERE.

9. by NOT participating in threads that appear to be designed as nothing but traps to provide evidence for something that evidence may be impossible to obtain, e.g., Is the military running it's own to top secret geoengineering program?

10. by complying with the terms and conditions of the website even if your facts, logic or your premise are disputed. This doesn't guarantee that when someone does something unethical it won't still be in compliance with the terms and conditions.

Hi, I havae moved myself to the Sedona AZ area, away from LA to avoid more trails. It seems I can get my body to expel the worms but I seem to be taking more in. I need some further medical intervention but that's real hard when none of us with Morgellon's can pull a positive result for a parasite test, yet they are visible in my body, in x rays since they have a metal content. One trick is to find a physician that will order a thirty minute MRI. Baking soda every day has been helpful too but the level of spraying in Sedona is ten times worse than LA.
Im ready to move to Sonora, Mexico if I can find out if there are chemtrails there. I hope to connect with someone near there that can tell me.
Its been a long road of discovery as my body has been invaded by multiple types of parasites at the same time. I believe I was sprayed the first time in jail in 1980 supposedly with lice medicine. they spayed armpits, pubes, anus area etc.
I was fairly asymptomatic for decades but the recent effort in LA combined with an infestation of not normal insects in buildings in LA, I am having quite a time. Raised veins in the hands and arms and legs, feet are a dead giveaway. Doctors tell patients its normal because they are not thinking like this at all. So we are considered delusional by most medical practitioners. Ive had it with America that they have done this deed for someone else obviously and I don't know about conspiracy theories. All I know is I am sick with strange symptoms that match Morgellon's and I pass the home test using red wine and isopropyl alcohol. The test result is what is floating in a cup after you spit after you brush for many minutes.
I was not amazed, I knew I was sick. So to me, it doesn't matter what kind of entity or rich person is engaging in population control, I just want to be healthy. Our air force is complicit in this effort of spraying. One could make a case for the CDC being complicit also, becauase they allowed themselves to be used to spread disinformation. They warned the doctors that patients are becoming delusional about parasites. Its almost like they were expecting us.
I took pictures particularly of the odd insects I found in my apartment. Our building had a nest of black round bugs in the hallway everyone passed by. Soon we could hear eachother coughing and vomiting through the thin walls.
This is real.
This is life now as we know it and if anyone tells you differently be very suspect of them being a disinformation officer. I have read some of their propaganda. Most aren't even experts and most are lying.
If anyone knows anything about Sonora, please write.
I thank you for reading. I certainly would have been skeptical also. It seems to convoluted, yet you cant argue with this walking piece of medical evidence. Now my teeth are being degraded presumably by worms. I woke up to a raised vein on my cheekbone this time and a collection of black pores next to my nose. looks like blackheads but impossible to eject. Rather than traumatizing my nose and attracting more worms to come to that spot, ill leave it alone and hope the baking soda takes care of it. They could be trying to exit and so am I. I have a little candy cane shaped worm in my wrist that is visible. I can make him straighten out with massage, so I now have my own pet.
again, thanks for reading. ill check back for replies. steven in flagsataff (they spray here too).

a reply to: aquariusattack

You will need to move to someplace near the equator to avoid "the trails".

Out of curiosity, have you looked for any other sources for your "illness"? It just seems that if there was something sprayed from they sky and it made you sick, then there would be hundreds of thousands of people who lived near you with the same sickness, yet, there are not.

It almost makes you wonder why not ONE doctor has validated morgelions. It's almost like it's psycho-somatic.
patient.info...

Regardless of your beliefs, I hope you get better.

While living in Vietnam between 2001 to 2008 I had never seen or heard of a chemical trail. They just don't have them. Of course I had seen contrails. Ever since I was a kid I had seen jets leave a water vapour trail behind them, which would disappear within a few minutes. Yes real contrails have always disappeared quite quickly.
After returning to Australia I noticed planes flying horizontally. Or in random flight paths leaving a very white thin stream or streams behind them. These would then slowly spread across the sky for hours afterwards. Sometimes you can see them spray in bursts. Doing several different lines.
I am really surprised that people actually believe they are a water vapour trail. These trails are a modern occurrence. They were not occurring here in Australia 30 years ago.

originally posted by: TheInfiniteFantastic
These trails are a modern occurrence. They were not occurring here in Australia 30 years ago.

I think you are likely correct. But then, there weren't very many flights at all across Australia 30 years ago.

Can you offer a scientific explanation as to why contrails cannot last longer than a few minutes?

a reply to: TheInfiniteFantastic

In all fairness. We don't just blindly believe they are ice trails. We know that that's all they CAN be because we understand the science behind how they form and we also understand plane engines and how they have changed over the decades. A lot of us also have intimate knowledge or aircraft ad their operation in the air and on the ground.

What im about to say is not hyperbole:

Every single thing we have ever posted can or has been backed up with facts/science. EVERY SINGLE THING, zero exceptions.

Everyone has a choice. Learn something by listening to people posting FACTS or believe people who lie constantly and say they can tell the chemical makeup of a trail from 35,000 below it with their eyes.

Chemtrails are real! Although in Germany can see a lot of chemtrails:

Chemtrails Germany / Mönchengladbach

Even during this thread, people have gone off topic. lol Isn't this thread about the T&C in the Chemtrail forum??? So, why are people trying to make this into a chemtrail debate????

And, for the record, it's not just the "chemtrail forum". This should go towards every thread posted on ATS. If this is a "conspiracy" website, why all the name calling? Why the need for "proof" and "facts"? Isn't ATS supposed to be the place where the other side of the coin is discussed, in a mature manner, without having to "prove" something??? Aren't we supposed to talk about the things the MSM isn't telling us, now matter how crazy the "theory" may be???

I'm not a "conspiracy theorist". I just don't believe anything the people on television wants us to believe! I'd rather come here, to see what the other side is talking about. Unfortunately, it seems as though the "other side" has been infiltrated and those people have been given positions to determine what is or is not a T&C violation.

a reply to: JuJuBee

you can talk about it all you like. What you can't do is silence others just because they have an opposing viewpoint.
Logical debate while keeping in the T&C is what this site is all about. Feel free to start a thread, or comment on an existing one.

originally posted by: HoFisch
Chemtrails are real! Although in Germany can see a lot of chemtrails:

Chemtrails Germany / Mönchengladbach

Why can't those be contrails?

a reply to: HoFisch

Chemtrails are real! Although in Germany can see a lot of chemtrails:

Just wondering...but how do you know chemtrails are real, have you seen actual scientific evidence that shows they are real?

You do know not one person has actually flown up and got a sample from a chemtrail while it was still in the air...you should also know there is a reason for that, it would kill the conspiracy they depend on.

a reply to: JuJuBee

Even during this thread, people have gone off topic. lol Isn't this thread about the T&C in the Chemtrail forum??? So, why are people trying to make this into a chemtrail debate????

Much like you have just done?

Unfortunately, it seems as though the "other side" has been infiltrated and those people have been given positions to determine what is or is not a T&C violation.

Infiltrated by who?

a reply to: JuJuBee

why the need for facts ???????????????

lets start with :

because if your conspiricy claim has none - then its just creative writing

Hey guys... I have Just recorded a Very suspicious plane that emitted Some some of 'beam' from its nose that Literally formed a horizontal column of clear-sky out in front of the plane!! I have NO IDEA who to talk to about this so I REALLY need help getting this video out!

a reply to: OccultaLumine

Like this?
www.thenakedscientists.com...

a reply to: OccultaLumine

It is the shadow of the contrail.

contrailscience.com...

Why people get scared of a shadow I don't really know? Some people would rather believe that the aeroplane is shooting or following a "black beam"





Link to contrail shadow from 1974

www.flickr.com...