Nail In Obamacare Coffin - Whitehouse Projected 156 Million More To Lose Insurance Plans

In a nation where the price of hospital care and prescription drugs are very little, there's no need to socialize medicine or involve health insurance. The biggest problem is that in the US, the cost of seeing a doctor and getting prescription is incredibly high and it's especially high if you have to stay overnight. Unless you eliminate this issue, you're not going to be able to socialize medicine properly and the overhead will be way too much to handle.

Take for instance India and the Philippines. Both countries cost a few dollars for a visit to the ER with diagnosis and prescription for a month. I hear surgery is very iffy but it's an option that is best for most people, and those that want to have the better more expensive surgeons can go to a higher-class hospital which is fine.

At the present time in the US, you have two kinds of hospitals. You have the standard hospital / clinic which diagnoses you,writes you a prescription and/or fixes you up. The other kind is a non-profit hospital that exists too far in between. Each state has maybe one or two of those. Have a problem but live 6 hours away from the non-profit hospital? Good luck. And if you can't afford a standard hospital visit you probably can't afford the gas to go there and back to the non-profit one which could be hours away.

Prescription is also a problem. You don't need to be a doctor to know that codeine will help you tolerate that horrendous tooth ache until you can setup your dental appointment. You don't need a doctor for most things, you can just diagnose yourself if you want to and quite honestly I see no reason why someone should be denied strictly because they are too poor to afford a prescription. In third world countries, you don't need a doctor's signature, you can go and buy whatever you want and that's a system that needs to be borrowed.

Obamacare has potentially killed millions of people already, and it's going to hurt the entire country in ways we can't even imagine right now and it has paved the way for a black market in medical care which I welcome with open arms. The biggest terrorist this country has ever seen is definitively the Obama administration. If Obamacare isn't canned, then it will have killed and injured more people than any other terrorist attack in the US.

select dateThe United States population on July 4, 2012 was: 313,933,954

www.census.gov...

That figure is bogus. There are only 300 million people in the US. Sorry but the fear mongering and attacks are out of control. There was a thread about prosecuting Obama yesterday for lying. How about Bush? Cheney? Rumsfield? Wolfowitz? For war crimes ... Yes I thought this is nothing but hypocritical none sense. Get serious. Every president since at least 1945 has lied in massive ways to the American public. Lets not kid ouseleves... 156 million will lose coverage? That is a totally bogus figure pulled out of someone's rear end. Check the US population figures.. It is not possible. There are most likely not 156 million insured Americans.

JayinAR
reply to post by FlyingFox

 

I am a libertarian and have zero problems with the idea of socialized medicine.

I think health care should fall under one of Gov's very, very limited responsibilities in that we employ them to protect us. Protection should include basic medical service, free of charge.

Its one of a few things our NUMEROUS nonsensical taxes should go to.

All you should have to do is show freakin' proof of citizenship to get all the care you need.

Unfortunately our taxes go to pie in the sky defense military projects that you and I will never see because the idiots at the DOD are a bunch of paranoid weirdos, among many other useless appropriations.

It is beyond time people put their collective foot down.

I sort of agree with this.

I think we should all have a catastrophic level of coverage, as well as annual or twice annual screenings covered.

Where that gets a little sticky is that there should be no mandatory required treatments. For instance, if your screening says you're at risk for high blood pressure, you shouldn't be forced onto meds. As a free American, you should have the right to take that information and decide on your best course of action (diet, exercise, etc.) if you so choose.

Make all minor medical examinations and procedures out of pocket. Doing this would suck a ton of cash out of the system and lower prices across the board.

The real problem is that the lobbyists that write the laws rather like the idea of MORE money being spent on insurance, medicine, and so forth. Throw in a passel of politicians bent on creating a majority dependent class and you have a recipe for disaster...which we are facing.

th3dudeabides
reply to post by elouina

 

God I hope the American public wakes up soon. This country needs a revolution. This two party system has to go.

nope...corporate control has to go...but, it's too late for that, they have already won. the wealthy do not care about your health, look at how they treat other workers in 3rd world countries regarding wages, healthcare, infrastructure, working conditions, etc....if they could get you to live in a dirt-floored hut, and living on a dollar a day they would do it...it's just a matter of time, because they control most of the wealth in the world, and they want more.

So, the idea here is: The one who does not have insurance can BUY insurance - just like they could before. The one who has insurance will loose their insurance - not like before.

The beauty of the tax - not a law, is that the one who can now buy insurance will be a whole human. The one who looses their insurance is a statistic that was predicted.

I'm fully annoyed by this idea that anyone who is part of the predicted statistical outcome is not considered human. So if 5 percent of the people loose their insurance, it isn't a problem because it was predicted. Those 5 percent are faceless numbers and not real people because the world of computer modeling has reduced us all nothing but 1's and 0's. This applies to drone kills, insurance and everything else.

reply to post by gariac

You want to let someone die due to lack of healthcare.

No, I don't,,, But then again, your not as well informed as you want the people here to think you are.
you do know about the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act, don't you, I mean you seem to know about every thing else or at least want these people here to believe you do.
That act commonly known as the MTALA Law of 1986 forces hospital emergency rooms to treat anyone that shows up, regardless of their ability to pay.

How quickly they forger George W. Bush's prescription addition to medicare, which was TOTALLY unfunded. Hence government spending went up. How could it not go up?

That is being Hailed as the Most Successful Cost Control Experiment in Medicare.
It is Very Popular among seniors and it as so far come in 30% below the expectations of the Congressional Budget Office.
They are expecting the cost savings to be as much as 40% my the end of the first decade sense President G. W. Bush signed it into Law.
You Fail again.
Now if you'd like to actually read, www.forbes.com...
If you'd like to learn about a better Healthcare option than your Obamacare try here:
www.forbes.com...
I know you'll be Shocked and won't want to believe your own eyes, but it was the Democrats that had just returned to power that Squashed his plans. Now Look What They Gave Us Instead You're Happy with It.

reply to post by JayinAR


While I don't think of myself as a libertarian, I agree, health care should be free and accessible to everyone, and eventually it will.

In my opinion "obamacare", or socialized healthcare has been put into law 10-20 years too soon. Frankly, there's too many old people alive, and our tech isn't that great yet. I guarantee in 15 years, socialized health care will make a lot more sense.

reply to post by gariac


The grandfather clause is written such that minuscule changes to a plan will cause it to be excluded. A $5.00 change in copay, for example, will render a plan non-compliant. That's FIVE dollars. How long do you think it will be before inflation alone forces your insurance company to raise that copay?

You are also not considering the increased costs on insurance companies as a result of forcing them to cover everyone and provide superfluous coverage. It is absurd to think that they will not be forced to significantly alter your plan within three to four years.

You seem to be relatively informed, but short-sighted in your understanding of Obamacare and its 'unintended' consequences. I suggest you dig a little deeper before proclaiming your support of this disastrous legislation. The diabolical cornerstone of Obamacare is that, after a few years, all of us will be forced to look to the government for healthcare.

Afternoon,

So it would appear the doofus in charge has gone and done it again.
Claiming 100 million have enrolled.
The headlines state "he was confused" but I think we all know what a total crock that is!
The guy probably gets hourly updates from his minions on the ACA's status and he makes a mistake that rivals "never get involved in an asian land war"?
His hubris and crimes have no boundries and if he makes it to the end of his term without being impeached, America should just give up because they won't be able to stop Hitlery or the new Bush (or any other politician) without making an example of him and showing the others who's REALLY in charge.

www.dailymail.co.uk... ed.html

-Peace-

If we collectively wanted to get rid of this program known as Obamacare forever then we need to only do one thing... use the insurance to the fullest extent possible.

Pay the high premiums, then run up debt to cover the deductible, then continue to use any services that are covered under your plan. Even a healthy person can find reasons to visit health care professionals. You don't have to justify it, the health care professionals have shown that they will provide unnecessary services to healthy people anyway, so they will justify it for you.

If everyone used the insurance it would bankrupt the insurance companies. Then everyone file for personal bankruptcy and divest themselves of the debt incurred due to the deductible. I mean, if the ship is going down anyway....

muiredised
If we collectively wanted to get rid of this program known as Obamacare forever then we need to only do one thing... use the insurance to the fullest extent possible.

Pay the high premiums, then run up debt to cover the deductible, then continue to use any services that are covered under your plan. Even a healthy person can find reasons to visit health care professionals. You don't have to justify it, the health care professionals have shown that they will provide unnecessary services to healthy people anyway, so they will justify it for you.

If everyone used the insurance it would bankrupt the insurance companies. Then everyone file for personal bankruptcy and divest themselves of the debt incurred due to the deductible. I mean, if the ship is going down anyway....

Hint. Ah screw it, let me just this out loud. YOU WOULD NEED TO BE SICK TO USE HEALTH INSURANCE. Who has the time to waste going to the doctor for no good reason. Worse yet, you can get a finger where it doesn't belong or other less desirable treatment.

Well thanks for giving me a good laugh.

OpenMindedRealist
reply to post by gariac

 

The grandfather clause is written such that minuscule changes to a plan will cause it to be excluded. A $5.00 change in copay, for example, will render a plan non-compliant. That's FIVE dollars. How long do you think it will be before inflation alone forces your insurance company to raise that copay?

You are also not considering the increased costs on insurance companies as a result of forcing them to cover everyone and provide superfluous coverage. It is absurd to think that they will not be forced to significantly alter your plan within three to four years.

You seem to be relatively informed, but short-sighted in your understanding of Obamacare and its 'unintended' consequences. I suggest you dig a little deeper before proclaiming your support of this disastrous legislation. The diabolical cornerstone of Obamacare is that, after a few years, all of us will be forced to look to the government for healthcare.

Nothing, I repeat nothing you have stated. makes sense. Why would a company THAT IS MAKING MONEY from me want to drop me as a customer? Answer: they won't.

Real insurance companies love the ACA. They can finally stop the competition from those junk companies that sell junk policies. Insurance companies helped to write the plan. Do you think they would lobby for a plan that hurt their business? Seriously?

Yet another person providing me a good laugh.

gariac

Real insurance companies love the ACA. They can finally stop the competition from those junk companies that sell junk policies. Insurance companies helped to write the plan. Do you think they would lobby for a plan that hurt their business? Seriously?

Yet another person providing me a good laugh.

They are also to create the biggest monopoly in the nation, that control prices as ACA thanks to be lobbied by insurance companies never took into consideration, insurance costs.

It is predicted that the monopolies will become even bigger that the now to humongous too fail banks in Wall Street.

What a future it this scam get to stick.

reply to post by gariac

...let me just this out loud. YOU WOULD NEED TO BE SICK TO USE HEALTH INSURANCE. Who has the time to waste going to the doctor for no good reason.

reply to post by gariac


Forgive me if I seem to misunderstand your response, but I have two clarifications to make...

First, I have NEVER needed to be sick in order to visit my doctor. And typically when I visit him/her they order a bunch of tests that probably have nothing to do with the reason for my visit. Why? Because I have health insurance. My doc gets paid when I visit so he/she wants me to drop in as often as possible (but only for 5 minutes). And my doc's buddy at the lab gets paid when he/she draws blood and runs tests so they are always happy to send me on a day-long runaround racking up bills. Or just get bit by a cat, because take it from someone who knows... that is a $6,000 bill right there from the ER (even after declining the recommended hand surgery).

Second, regarding not having time to visit a doctor for "no good reason". This is America, look around, I dare say MOST people need to get to the doctor, and a dietician, and a therapist. Obesity/insanity is a son-of-a-gun!

"Hey doc, I am fat can you help me with that?"

"Why yes I can, just make an appointment and don't eat for 12 hours before your visit, we may need to draw blood."

muiredised

reply to post by gariac

...let me just this out loud. YOU WOULD NEED TO BE SICK TO USE HEALTH INSURANCE. Who has the time to waste going to the doctor for no good reason.

reply to post by gariac

 

Forgive me if I seem to misunderstand your response, but I have two clarifications to make...

First, I have NEVER needed to be sick in order to visit my doctor. And typically when I visit him/her they order a bunch of tests that probably have nothing to do with the reason for my visit. Why? Because I have health insurance. My doc gets paid when I visit so he/she wants me to drop in as often as possible (but only for 5 minutes). And my doc's buddy at the lab gets paid when he/she draws blood and runs tests so they are always happy to send me on a day-long runaround racking up bills. Or just get bit by a cat, because take it from someone who knows... that is a $6,000 bill right there from the ER (even after declining the recommended hand surgery).

Second, regarding not having time to visit a doctor for "no good reason". This is America, look around, I dare say MOST people need to get to the doctor, and a dietician, and a therapist. Obesity/insanity is a son-of-a-gun!

"Hey doc, I am fat can you help me with that?"

"Why yes I can, just make an appointment and don't eat for 12 hours before your visit, we may need to draw blood."

You greatly underestimate where the money goes. Hospital treatment is where it is at. And again, the number of people that will waste their time on this is limited to tea baggers with nothing better to do.

reply to post by gariac


Refusal, or inability, to comprehend something does not make it any less true. Nor will confidence make an ignorant delusion any more real.
At this point, I have to dismiss you as a either unreachable or a paid defender of Obamacare.


I urge others in this thread to resist wasting any more words on gariac. The information has been provided, and the resources are out there for confirmation.

gariac
And again, the number of people that will waste their time on this is limited to tea baggers with nothing better to do.

The first sign that one is losing an argument is name calling. Well, not to mention the fact that it is quite clear to people who even have a limited understanding of the Affordable Care Act that you really are just spouting what you believe you have been told - rather than the facts.

gariac

POST REMOVED BY STAFF


Are you one of those racist "speak English or get out of my country" types?

Once again the personal attacks rather than focusing on the issue at hand is really just another form of name calling due to being on the losing end of an argument...but now you're trying to turn this into a republican vs democrat thing. If you have been paying attention at all you would notice that the majority of us who are opposed to the exceedingly poorly written money grab disguised as the ACA are just as unhappy with republicans as we are with democrats. We are not bound by blind party faith. If you are really claiming that one "side" is better or worse than the other, then your cover is pretty well blown.

edit on 19-11-2013 by tallcool1 because: editing

edit on Tue Nov 19 2013 by DontTreadOnMe because: (no reason given)