Is religion a mental disorder?

BlueMule
For you, the line seems to be drawn at functioning in society. That strikes me as an odd line for a non-conformist to draw.

It's not odd. I have to put my personal dislike for organized religions and what they push aside. I have to go with the facts ... and my psychology degree says that having spiritual or religious beliefs is not 'disordered'. It's a basic part of the human condition and always has been. The cave paintings and the cave man burials prove that earliest man had spiritual/religious beliefs. (burials had people buried with items to use in the afterlife, etc). Those came BEFORE the indoctrination of the major religions in the world. Before Judaism. Before Hinduism. Before Christianity. WAY before all that, humans had spiritual beliefs.

(oh .. and the 'nonconformist' thing is from South Park ... the goths say they are non-conformists ... and the avatar is of the South Park Goth named Henrietta )

FlyersFan
Like it or not, and obviously you don't, being part of a religion is NOT a psychological disorder.

Once more you are spouting ascertion.
Refute the data.
Facts don't lie.
If I am so wrong then why can't you do that ONE thing which will establish your position as valid?
Your constant denile of established medical and psychological facts surrounding this proves that not only is the OP is indeed accurate but what's more...it is accurate of you.

-Peace-

The world will always get one lost, that is the whole point of the world. If one was not lost in the world then one could never find the way home.
One has to play the game of lost and found otherwise it would be a totally useless game.
It is the cosmic joke.

FlyersFan
It's a basic part of the human condition and always has been.

I totally agree. But in a traditional society, a shaman can have extreme religious experiences and a 'mana personality' while functioning perfectly in a societal role that is validated and supported by the society.

Today, its much more difficult for 'mana personalities' to find a role in society that they can function in.

reply to post by FlyersFan


You catch a TON of crap when you post on ATS.. others may
throw mister hankey the Christmas poo at you.. but you
make interesting posts; often with merit.

I completely agree with you.. it's stock and standard psychology
and anthropology. Like it or not.. humans have evolved to crave
'spirituality' and 'religion'. Now is this an evolutionary flaw that
should be eradicated like a hardcore materialist, reductionist,
atheist might say? Well I personally wouldn't agree with this..
but I can definitely see where a militant atheist would say
this.. BTW, I did something like 7 years as a militant atheist
to gain the perspective of that 'side', so that I could understand
them.. just like I did about 7 years as a Christian, so that I
could understand them.

KPB

Eryiedes
Note the correction?

You need to adjust your post. I did NOT put 'primitive' in the wording. If you wish to interject the word, then you have to post it separately. Underneath my quote. The way you posted it is misleading and against the T&C of this site.

But that's exactly what has happened when "normal" people begin to believe demons are murdering families and not man. It's put the population into an intellectual coma. How is that not a problem?

Even though I agree with you that organized religion is controlling and has a large portion of the worlds population bamboozled and controlled (you said 'intellectual coma'), the fact is that having a religious/spiritual belief system is natural to humans. It was part of the human condition BEFORE religious indoctrination of organized religions. Religious/spiritual belief systems predate organized religions by tens of thousands of years.

Humans having religious/spiritual beliefs is not disordered. The beliefs themselves may be (many times are) disordered because they interfere with functioning society and the human itself functioning. But the fact that human has beliefs is not a 'disorder'

(Before you try to answer that one...it's rhetorical)

I don't have to ... 'try' .... to answer it. It is answered just fine.

Itisnowagain
The world will always get one lost, that is the whole point of the world. If one was not lost in the world then one could never find the way home.
One has to play the game of lost and found otherwise it would be a totally useless game.
It is the cosmic joke.

hey! that's like that one dude on the Watchmen said...



the Comedian kept it all together pretty well

KellyPrettyBear
others may throw mister hankey the Christmas poo at you..

Gotta give you a star for sneaking South Park into your response!

it's stock and standard psychology and anthropology. Like it or not.. humans have evolved to crave
'spirituality' and 'religion'.

There ya' go. You got it. Humans have to have a 'purpose' or a 'reason' or 'something after death'.
For most of humanity, that means spiritual beliefs. It's basic evolutionary psychology. (I LOVE
evolutionary psychology .. it's fascinating) It's not disordered to have beliefs in those directions.

It's the beliefs themselves that can be disordered ...
but not the generic 'having spiritual/religious beliefs'.

reply to post by Eryiedes

Just more snotty trolling from you. You should be banned.

I already gave some basic facts showing religion and spiritual beliefs are a basic part of the human condition. You just dont' like the truth of that statement. That's your problem. Not mine.

FlyersFan
You need to adjust your post. I did NOT put 'primitive' in the wording.

All I did was make your statement true.
Since it's only valid to primative man, I am skipping over the next part.

Humans having religious/spiritual beliefs is not disordered. The beliefs themselves may be (many times are) disordered because they interfere with functioning society and the human itself functioning. But the fact that human has beliefs is not a 'disorder'

I realize you are trying your best and I am not in the most receptive of moods so I'll say it one more time:

This thread isn't about "Does god exist" or "does religion serve a purpose to primative man"...so address the OP and the evidence, please.
I will consider anything less a sign of your capitulation.

-Peace-

Eryiedes
All I did was make your statement true.

No. You broke the rules. You are new here so I suggest you go read them again. What you did was claim it was my quote ... and it wasn't. Follow the rules. FIX IT. Otherwise I'll have to hit the alert button.

Since it's only valid to primative man,

That's an interjection on your part.

.so address the OP and the evidence, please.

Already did. I gave a few basic links showing that religion and religious beliefs are part of basic human evolutionary psychology and therefore it's not a 'disorder' to believe. Spiritual/religious beliefs in humanity predate organized religions by tens of thousands of years.

I will consider anything less a sign of your capitulation.

Only in your mind .... and that means nothing.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Maybe it is not 'religion' that is a mental disorder - maybe it is arguing whether it is or not.
Conflict is a mental disorder. Duality, picking a side, having an opinion that is strong, a belief worth fighting over.

FlyersFan
The beliefs themselves may be (many times are) disordered because they interfere with functioning society and the human itself functioning.

Maybe its modern society that interferes with the development of mystical consciousness.

Maybe a mystic has to go past the ephemeral values and norms of their local society in order to develop. Maybe its society that has the disorder.

Maybe 'Holy Madness' is a necessary and universal part of the inner alchemy of higher consciousness.

BlueMule
Maybe its modern society that interferes with the development of mystical consciousness.

Oh man .. that's good! Modern society is disordered and the spiritual nature (devoid of organized religion) of humanity is what is 'normal'. Oh that's a deep one to think about. How knows. Maybe ....

FlyersFan

BlueMule
Maybe its modern society that interferes with the development of mystical consciousness.

Oh man .. that's good! Modern society is disordered and the spiritual nature (devoid of organized religion) of humanity is what is 'normal'. Oh that's a deep one to think about. How knows. Maybe ....

When a believer has a profound paranormal experience they can have a lot of trouble framing that experience in a socially acceptable way because our modern society has no fully-functional mythology to provide a framework. The various functions that a mythology fulfills for a society are scattered across a spectrum of dysfunctional mythologies.

We need ways to frame our paranormal experiences so that we can communicate them to each other and support each other. In a traditional society with a single fully-functional mythology there is no interference because a fully-functional mythology provides the society with a mystical system which can support mystics as they experience things outside the norm. Things that can be difficult to handle.

reply to post by FlyersFan

It's basic evolutionary psychology. (I LOVE
evolutionary psychology .. it's fascinating)

Indeed. It certainly is...endlessly.

Hey, have you read Robert Wright's books?

The Moral Animal: Why we Are the Way We Are; The New Science of Evolutionary Psychology

You GOTTA!!!

His other two, also
Non Zero: The Logic of Human Destiny

And the frosting of those two layers: The Evolution of God

Fun, fun...great funny read (ala SP), but FULL of the evolution of psychology, religiosity, and morality.

Ya gotta! We can talk about it together then!! Right here!!

reply to post by BlueMule

Maybe a mystic has to go past the ephemeral values and norms of their local society in order to develop. Maybe its society that has the disorder.

Bingo!

I know one poster on ATS who is a case study for this true statement of yours.

KPB

reply to post by BlueMule

We need ways to frame our paranormal experiences so that we can communicate them to each other and support each other. In a traditional society with a single fully-functional mythology there is no interference because a fully-functional mythology provides the society with a mystical system which can support mystics as they experience things outside the norm. Things that can be difficult to handle.

Superbly stated.

This is why TPTB has us by the daddy parts. We don't have a genuine
mystical system / common mythology in the west, but rather a PSYOP
people confuse for a valid system. We are fractured and at each other's
throats due to this psyop, which damns most humans to hell. So either
you become a monster who promotes this false system, or you are
one of the damned according to this system. TPTB are geniuses
to have created monotheism and hell.

reply to post by BlueMule


I was wondering where you've been....
lurking??

Glad to see you.
Yes, the melding of the two approaches. The elevation to a new level of communication and understanding.

KellyPrettyBear
reply to post by BlueMule

 

We need ways to frame our paranormal experiences so that we can communicate them to each other and support each other. In a traditional society with a single fully-functional mythology there is no interference because a fully-functional mythology provides the society with a mystical system which can support mystics as they experience things outside the norm. Things that can be difficult to handle.

Superbly stated.

This is why TPTB has us by the daddy parts. We don't have a genuine
mystical system / common mythology in the west, but rather a PSYOP
people confuse for a valid system. We are fractured and at each other's
throats due to this psyop, which damns most humans to hell. So either
you become a monster who promotes this false system, or you are
one of the damned according to this system. TPTB are geniuses
to have created monotheism and hell.

That's what all the fighting is about. Which mythology will be the common one? The science narrative or the religion narrative?

Science has taken the cosmological function from religion but religion still holds the social function. In a war of incomplete / dysfunctional mythological systems (and here I count science as a dysfunctional mythological system), the mystic is caught between clashing archetypal images in the collective unconscious.