Does paranormal exist?

reply to post by thebtheb

So there was boat in front of them, but they could not see it? What are you talking about?

@ others, I am short on time, will answer your posts later...

sled735
reply to post by SuperFrog

 

Does the paranormal exist?

I would have to say that with over 200 pages of experiences from members here in my paranormal thread, the answer is, YES!

www.abovetopsecret.com...

With that logic, all those fans for movies like twilight or harry potter that get that funny feeling while watching prove both exist?

alienreality
reply to post by SuperFrog

 

You go first... Would you believe this was paranormal and real if you were to receive scratches like this when you know that nothing visible was next to you.?

That would be evidence, something worth analyzing. Now, interesting question for you - how come it is always visible marks? Why not mark you one of internal organs, something that will agonize you... or even kill you?

I saw marks of demon, but those demons held weapons and were very real... and drunk... other then that, never experienced anything, even I lived in area known for bloody past that dates back to time of Rome empire...

thebtheb
The only thing I'll bother responding to is your saying I was dreaming. Well, again, I was there. You weren't. No, not every memory when I'm 7 or 8 is crystal clear, but that one was. I suppose I dreamed the next day at the dinner table when my sister mentioned her experience? This is what I was talking about - why would I lie? And even if I did, thousands, probably millions of people with strange experiences - they can't all be dreaming, and they can't all be lying. It's really logical if you apply the sheer numbers to it.

Sure, number of stories clearly proves something being true. Just like religion, share number of people believing in different religion proves all of them being true... But can they all be true? Think about it...

SuperFrog

thebtheb
The only thing I'll bother responding to is your saying I was dreaming. Well, again, I was there. You weren't. No, not every memory when I'm 7 or 8 is crystal clear, but that one was. I suppose I dreamed the next day at the dinner table when my sister mentioned her experience? This is what I was talking about - why would I lie? And even if I did, thousands, probably millions of people with strange experiences - they can't all be dreaming, and they can't all be lying. It's really logical if you apply the sheer numbers to it.

Sure, number of stories clearly proves something being true. Just like religion, share number of people believing in different religion proves all of them being true... But can they all be true? Think about it...

edit on 15-11-2013 by SuperFrog because: (no reason given)

Religion is faith and belief, not an actual perceptual experience in most cases. Believing in God is one thing, but having an experience you can recount is quite another. I find it funny, the amount of things the everyday pragmatic person believes without any proof whatsoever because they were apparently "verified" by some institution they trust. The Western medical model comes to mind as an example.

thebtheb

SuperFrog

thebtheb
The only thing I'll bother responding to is your saying I was dreaming. Well, again, I was there. You weren't. No, not every memory when I'm 7 or 8 is crystal clear, but that one was. I suppose I dreamed the next day at the dinner table when my sister mentioned her experience? This is what I was talking about - why would I lie? And even if I did, thousands, probably millions of people with strange experiences - they can't all be dreaming, and they can't all be lying. It's really logical if you apply the sheer numbers to it.

Sure, number of stories clearly proves something being true. Just like religion, share number of people believing in different religion proves all of them being true... But can they all be true? Think about it...

edit on 15-11-2013 by SuperFrog because: (no reason given)

Religion is faith and belief, not an actual perceptual experience in most cases. Believing in God is one thing, but having an experience you can recount is quite another. I find it funny, the amount of things the everyday pragmatic person believes without any proof whatsoever because they were apparently "verified" by some institution they trust. The Western medical model comes to mind as an example.

So in your opinion, religious people don't experience spirituality, nor things depicted in bible ever occurred.

Why should I trust either one, without any evidence?

reply to post by SuperFrog

Does paranormal exist?

Everything that exists is natural. The term, 'paranormal' is a term applied to things we either suspect exist and/or those we can't explain.

In this universe, nothing can be there that can't be. The rule is simple and I think it holds a lot of weight. The problem we have is that we don't yet have a good, full grasp of everything so those things we don't yet understand, get a bad tag.

My guess is that, for the most part... if you can manipulate energy and matter without limit, nothing is really 'impossible'. For those looking on... what you might do would make you a god or something similar. But the base thing is being able to take what is there and do with it what you want at will. Not impossible but damned sure well beyond our current abilities.

SuperFrog

thebtheb

SuperFrog

thebtheb
The only thing I'll bother responding to is your saying I was dreaming. Well, again, I was there. You weren't. No, not every memory when I'm 7 or 8 is crystal clear, but that one was. I suppose I dreamed the next day at the dinner table when my sister mentioned her experience? This is what I was talking about - why would I lie? And even if I did, thousands, probably millions of people with strange experiences - they can't all be dreaming, and they can't all be lying. It's really logical if you apply the sheer numbers to it.

Sure, number of stories clearly proves something being true. Just like religion, share number of people believing in different religion proves all of them being true... But can they all be true? Think about it...

edit on 15-11-2013 by SuperFrog because: (no reason given)

Religion is faith and belief, not an actual perceptual experience in most cases. Believing in God is one thing, but having an experience you can recount is quite another. I find it funny, the amount of things the everyday pragmatic person believes without any proof whatsoever because they were apparently "verified" by some institution they trust. The Western medical model comes to mind as an example.

So in your opinion, religious people don't experience spirituality, nor things depicted in bible ever occurred.

Why should I trust either one, without any evidence?

No, I am saying that there is no proof about what occurred in the Bible, no present person to talk to who can even talk to us about it. With paranormal experiences, I can talk with people alive today who can tell me of their experiences.

Here's one: I went to a psychic kind of meeting once. I and a friend went and just heard two woman talk about telepathy, etc., just like a lecture really. At the very end, one woman pointed to random people in the audience, and would give them "impressions" she was receiving about them. I think about half an hour or so, she had covered mostly everyone there, about 30 people suppose.

In those days, I used to always go down to a river in my city, sit on the same large boulder, stare at the sky while fiddling with a ring on one of my fingers, and I would think about life.

When the psychic got to me, she said, "I see you sitting by water, on a large rock, playing with a ring on your finger while thinking pensively.'

Say whatever you want, I dreamed it, I'm lying, oh, she followed me around for weeks ahead of time and SAW me do this even though I'd never seen her before in my life. But for me, that was all the proof I needed to know she had an ability that can be described as paranormal. What she said was far far too specific to be a good guess. And quite simply, I've had far too many experiences like this not to be convinced. You on the other hand, clearly don't WANT this to be real, and you don't look for evidence, but look instead of evidence against.

That's no problem, nothing wrong with that, but as I see it, you'll never come across any evidence that way.

But for my "numbers" thing, again, I have heard of, experienced, and read of too many similar things over decades and spanning centuries. That qualifies as a very real kind of proof for me. I just don't think everyone is lying or hallucinating, and that it hasn't been verified by a man in a white coat doesn't make it any less proof for me.

I assume you know about cold reading?

I know it can be hard to accept, but you have been tricked into believing. It is technique practiced by magician all around the world and to this day it did not change... If you like to learn more about it - cold reading explained.

One thing that James Randi often say - everyone would say - it can't happen to me! But fact is that is happening.

Good night...

This particular subject is iffy for me. I have had odd experiences, but those experiences could be easily explained away by simple means. However, we are in no way all knowing of this universe, energy can not be created nor destroyed, it can only change forms -- which brings me to my next analysis... where does that energy go? why is there so many reports of ghosts, demons, and the like?

Then again, my scientific mindset clashes with this because if something isn't PHYSICALLY here, in this PHYSICAL universe, how can it PHYSICALLY interact with a PHYSICAL being without a PHYSICAL body???

Is it dimension slips where our dimension temporarily is aligned with another and species from both dimensions can see and interact with each other briefly? - Do those in other dimensions make reports of seeing a "hairless ape man" ??

Interesting thread though! Enjoyed reading through it. S&F superfrog

~Sovereign

SuperFrog
I assume you know about cold reading?

I know it can be hard to accept, but you have been tricked into believing. It is technique practiced by magician all around the world and to this day it did not change... If you like to learn more about it - cold reading explained.

One thing that James Randi often say - everyone would say - it can't happen to me! But fact is that is happening.

Good night...

edit on 15-11-2013 by SuperFrog because: (no reason given)

Oh please, we all know about cold reading. And my described experience does not fall under the methods used in cold reading at all. Fact: nothing will ever convince you because you have decided it's not true. Fact: if it were the year 1500, you'd be the last remaining refugee who believed the world was flat.

reply to post by thebtheb

Quite contrary... You should know by now that I believe in scientific work, so question for you - who first figured out how far is sun from earth? The same people knew that earth is not flat, but what is very interesting - how did they figure out?

I would probably burn on stick for not believing in higher being and all those paranormal things and miracles...

I don't think anyone can make you believe in something you don't already want to accept. From reading some posts, I think you already made your mind up way before the OP.

I hope you do one day 'see and believe'. I think life is boring without that extra 'wonder'.
Also, if you really want to know the truth about ghosts, you should stay at a haunted house. There are plenty in Alabama, it's the most haunted place in America if I recall right. I don't know where you're from though... Heck, do research in your area, there are haunted houses everywhere, ghost hunters etc, just like to focus on the bigger meat.

SovereignEve

Then again, my scientific mindset clashes with this because if something isn't PHYSICALLY here, in this PHYSICAL universe, how can it PHYSICALLY interact with a PHYSICAL being without a PHYSICAL body???

Depends on how you define "physical". If you mean "the totality of everything that exists", then yes, ghosts would be physical. If they do exist, then they're probably energy beings, just on a different layer of reality.

And it makes sense that they could physically interact with matter. After all, if ghosts exist, then there's a ghost inside your body right now, and it's interacting with it (it made you write this post, for one thing).

reply to post by SuperFrog


Do I believe all the medium told me?

I believe that throughout the reading ( an hour) she hit the nail on the head.

A few weeks ago my son and I were at the symphony hall because we bought tickets to see Theresa Caputo ( Long Island Medium). She was dead on with all the readings. It was amazing.

One strange thing happened to me while I was there. I told ONLY my son about it. I didn't tell anyone else because I dismissed it, not to mention who would believe me?

While sitting at the symphony hall I felt someone grab my arm. No one was sitting next to me other than my son on the opposite side. I quickly told him and we laughed about it, never spoke about it again and frankly I had forgotten until the medium recalled the memory and said my dear friend who passed away in July grabbed my arm recently. The medium grabbed my arm EXACTLY where I felt it a few weeks prior.

She told me that my other friend who died in the 2010 flood exactly what happened to him and a few other things that made me know she was indeed connecting with his energy/personality.

There are countless stories/experiences I could tell you or anyone else for that matter. These experiences throughout my years make me know without a doubt that life is more real when our physical body dies.

It's a knowing that doesn't involve faith. I KNOW.

reply to post by MamaJ


Just simple question, why person like that is unable to claim Randi's prize? For those claiming that Randi might dishonestly prevent her, your medium can have any popular host and invite Randi.

There is more prizes for the same, all of them (with one in Europe) are worth over 2 million dollars.

In my opinion, what you experience is just cold reading, and there is not much into it...

SuperFrog
reply to post by MamaJ

 

Just simple question, why person like that is unable to claim Randi's prize? For those claiming that Randi might dishonestly prevent her, your medium can have any popular host and invite Randi.

There is more prizes for the same, all of them (with one in Europe) are worth over 2 million dollars.

In my opinion, what you experience is just cold reading, and there is not much into it...

Your last sentence represents exactly what your OP is about: "In my opinion, what you experience is just cold reading." You weren't there, so your "opinion" is based on absolutely, and I mean absolutely, nothing but bias against the phenomenon. If you were truly logical and scientific, you would HAVE no opinion in this case because you are not able to investigate.


So there! Bwahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!

thebtheb,

I was not there to investigate that cosmos is expanding, but I trust scientists that it is. I was not there 14 billions year ago when it all started, but I trust those who researched and came to that conclusion. In both cases I have read material about it and got my own conclusion.

Same applies here, I don't have to be there to be able to research and investigate. Others did, and there is lots of material on internet about it. Richard Dawkins covered it in his 'Enemies of Reason' as well many others trough history debunked all those so called para-psychics.

This reminds me of Carlos - famous hoax.

"Carlos" was the name of a 2,000-year-old spirit allegedlyJose Alvarez performing "Carlos" at the Amazing Meeting Feb. 2, 2003; photo by Larry Thornton channeled by José Alvarez when he toured Australia in 1988. Channeling was all the rage in Australia and an Australian television program contacted James Randi about finding someone who might show Australians that channeling was something doubtful. Randi approached Alvarez, a performance artist and friend who had long toyed with the idea of creating such a character. The rest, as they say, is history. Alvarez

looked at videotapes of other people speaking in strange voices, pretending to be in touch with other worlds, and he picked it up right away. Eventually he went to Australia, took the performance into the Sydney Opera House before a rapt audience there, all handling crystals and beads and whatnot, and with charmed looks on their faces, attracted and enthralled by this man onstage, José Alvarez, doing the Spirit of Carlos that was claimed to be 2,000 years old. His performance was very convincing, and actually better than the "real" chanellers!

...*

* Source - Carlos Hoax

If you don't like to read, here is video made by James Randi:




(love tv station name - woop - in the end man behind Carlos turns out to be fake as well - identity theft )

I think we need something similar here in states... Sooner people find how they too can be tricked, less money will go into multi-billion dollar industry that channeling is today.



Deepak Chopra, who last week had debate with Richard Dawkins on Dangerous Mind at end of debate declared this as 'one in lifetime event' as he does not plan to debate Dawkins ever again is example of those 'modern channelers' - healer who claimed that even atoms have Consciousness.

SuperFrog
I was not there to investigate that cosmos is expanding, but I trust scientists that it is. I was not there 14 billions year ago when it all started, but I trust those who researched and came to that conclusion. In both cases I have read material about it and got my own conclusion. Same applies here, I don't have to be there to be able to research and investigate. Others did, and there is lots of material on internet about it.

Funny for you to say that, while showing an Isaac Asimov quote in your signature. In the first Foundation novel, remember what he said about science eschewing terrain research?

SuperFrog
in the end man behind Carlos turns out to be fake as well - identity theft

This man, Jose Alvarez, was a close associate of James Randi, just for your information.

reply to post by Cathcart


What's your point in both cases?

reply to post by SuperFrog


Call it whatever you like. Cold reading, warm reading, hot reading, weird reading, or I am not buying it reading. lol

The fact is she knew stuff she shouldn't have known. I was the witness to a phenomena. I cannot prove HOW she did it or why she can do it. I just know she did it.

I watched Theresa Caputo live.... knowing things she shouldn't be able to know.

You can dismiss it. That's ok with me. When you experience such, come back to this thread and tell us all about it.

We too may dismiss it because it was your experience and not ours.

reply to post by MamaJ


Theresa Caputo?



She is using cold reading technique.

Just please note, I am not disputing your experience, what you felt must have been overwhelming feeling. Method as I have already told is well known and documented.

This is how those things are dangerous...



Giving false hope and taking victim's money...