The Weight of Glory

reply to post by akushla99


Here is the plain truth of my innermost hear's desire or what Lewis calls our "inconsolable secret", standing at the threshold of that doorway to glory, that "cleft in the wall" of this world which leads to a better one, which Christ made possible, even as my tears and joy flow freely together for EVERYONE's sake, my own included,

I really want to start to go in, I really want what's best for myself and others, but by the love of God I dare not unless and until I know that others may follow as I follow Him.

It's a pride breaker alright, a good one. Jesus understood the weight of glory perfectly and with the utmost precision.

So I'm not a child playing in the corner of a sandbox trying to assemble a puzzle of white, in which case I would be crying..! no it would appear that I'm in truth a Christian doorman and an usher in the Church of the living God, where as a rebellious ministers son in my past I would only go in and ring the bell for my weekly cigarette allowance, a very "mercenary affair" as Lewis would put it. I ran away you see, had to, to assert my right to self determination, and spent my whole life running from God and the glory he wanted me to enjoy, but what you resist persists and since nothing else satisfies, I had to come back, open and hold the door for my fellow man where just ringing the bell for my own selfish desire and otherwise skipping town doesn't cut it.

I am a Christian then I guess, and a rather reluctant one at that, something which God appears to have counted on to make the joke even better in the final analysis.

And you can't be that kind of doorman without a great sense of humor and charm, so I sure hope no one was repelled because without you, left behind weeping and wailing it just wouldn't be the same, your humor is needed too, because we all have a good joke to tell which is unique to each and every one of us, in perfect accordance with our innermost heart's desire, that's the thing.

It's not that we have too much desire, but that we do not have enough nor have it pointed in the right direction, and that's both very very sad and, in the final analysis from the other side of the threshold very VERY funny!

So, anyone with me..?

..for the love of God I sure hope so, because it just wouldn't be the same without YOU, because without you I have no glory, no recognition, and neither would you - "the weight of glory" ties us together you see, but in a way and a manner that breaks the back of pride and selfishness while at the same time honoring and truly satisfying our deepest yearning, which is to be somebody in heaven, starting right here and now.

Let us therefore begin, as Lewis suggests, to take ourselves much more seriously so that we can enjoy the merriest of merriment, together, even while we are still on the way to much much greater things as yet unexplored, together.

This is the Christian way. It's a psychology and a metaphysics that is perfectly reasonable and entirely satisfying, that ends with a love and a good-natured, playful humor of which we had no prior conception or experience, so it comes when it comes, and it's inevitable that it will for all of us, by an unexpected pleasant surprise capable of satisfying our desire while restoring our own good-natured playful humor and love, and playfulness.

We cannot really play however unless and until we do take each other seriously, because as Lewis says, there are no ordinary people.

A Benediction, presuming that someone other than me alone has decided to set their heart on heaven first, and begin to enter in through the doorway of Christ, however fast or slowly and in whatever way however big or small.. at first, and be recognized, and be known, and accepted even welcomed with open arms..


Glory upon glory,
Grace upon grace,
Unspeakable treasure,
Unspeakable riches,
Unspeakable Love.


May God bless you, and keep you,
and make his countenance to smile, and shine down upon you.
In the name of the father, the son and the holy spirit, amen.


Turns out that I not only returned to work the door and usher in, but that I also performed the Benediction, who would have thought... time for a smoke break, brb. Luv, NAM aka Bob. : )

I wish someone would add a comment on what they they might have digested from reading and exploring this thread, because imho we might have opened a door here and presented an open invitation but in a way and a manner that most people might not have otherwise considered before.

Not seeking my own glory here, just kind of wanted to keep the thread going as a top thread in Religion, Faith and Theology, in part because it was costly to me the time and energy I put into it, and I don't want to see it just fall away without people having had the chance to give it due consideration, with discernment.

Thanks in advance for your participation and readership,

NAM

"C.S. Lewis goes to heaven!" : D

The Great Divorce by C.S. Lewis - Amazon
Study Guide of the Great Divorce

"There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, in the end, 'Thy will be done.'"

~ C.S. Lewis, "The Great Divorce"

Free download

readanybooks.net...

According to Lewis, hell is locked from the inside.

That makes a lot of sense, and represents either a terror and/or a great joke.

NewAgeMan

That's what I see then is a bunch of idiots battering away at the door of God's kingdom, as if it will yield under the sheer pressure of their supreme arrogance, pride, vanity.. see again how there's a great joke in all of this yet to be told at the devil's expense.. or perhaps I should say at the expense of human stupidity and the pride of man..?

We must learn to laugh at the devil, which shuts him up and makes him go away, which in turn frees us up to laugh ever more and still harder!

I hope someone get's this and that it's not just me.

"The best way to drive out the devil, if he will not yield to texts of
Scripture, is to jeer and flout him, for he cannot bear scorn."—Luther

"The devill . . the prowde spirite . . cannot endure to be mocked."—Thomas More

So opens Lewis' "The Screwtape Letters (Download Here) which he dedicated to his friend and the one person he credits with his conversation from a reluctant atheism (he was mad at God for not existing), J.R.R Tolkein.

THE SCREWTAPE LETTERS

by

C. S. LEWIS

Fellow of Magdalen College, Oxford

TO

J. R. R. TOLKIEN

www.truechristianity.info...

PREFACE

I HAVE no intention of explaining how the correspondence which I now offer to
the public fell into my hands.

There are two equal and opposite errors into which our race can fall about the
devils. One is to disbelieve in their existence. The other is to believe, and to
feel an excessive and unhealthy interest in them. They themselves are equally
pleased by both errors and hail a materialist or a magician with the same
delight. The sort of script which is used in this book can be very easily
obtained by anyone who has once learned the knack; but disposed or excitable
people who might make a bad use of it shall not learn it from me.

Readers are advised to remember that the devil is a liar. Not everything that
Screwtape says should be assumed to be true even from his own angle. I have made
no attempt to identify any of the human beings mentioned in the letters; but I
think it very unlikely that the portraits, say, of Fr. Spike or the patient's
mother, are wholly just.

There is wishful thinking in Hell as well as on Earth.

After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed:

“Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do. And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

Jesus Prays for His Disciples

“I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word. Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you. For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me. I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours. All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them. I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one. While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.

“I am coming to you now, but I say these things while I am still in the world, so that they may have the full measure of my joy within them. I have given them your word and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world. My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one. They are not of the world, even as I am not of it. Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth. As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified.

“My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one — I in them and you in me — so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.

“Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world. (the correct logical premise)

“Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me. I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them.”

John 17

This understanding of the idea of glory presented to us by C.S. Lewis is opening up all kinds of new things for me that would have never occurred to me (until I got to heaven) that I think need sharing. It's totally revolutionary, and the reason and the logic involved is unassailable and indomitable, like a wisdom of the ages that's a true rock of ages the kind of thing that builds a heavenly house from above that we're invited to begin moving into, at any time. It really is like a cleft in the wall of this world leading directly into an infinitely better one, even here on Earth and in this life while still on the way, and so there comes that humor again..

The idea of heavenly glory isn't absurd. We were.

NAM "on glory" - from the Buddhist oriented thread called

Dangerous Philosophy: Something Can Come From Nothing

NewAgeMan
reply to post by Wang Tang

 

It could also be there there is nothing that "is not" and that it's true that something cannot come from nothing, but that therefore instead, must come from everything already always, as a variable of a supreme value whereby the manifest creation represents, not a capricious addition from nothing, but an intelligent and intentional subtraction from everything, as the absolute infinite formless potential out of which the everything begot something in order so that this life experience as it is might be possible by anticipation and arising from an original intent.

Meaning in other words that everything was made by the father (first father of creation) for the son because of the love between the beloved and beloved other without which there is no reason for there to be a particularized something and not nothing at all or the one non-particularized "thing" (absolute oneness) within which there is no possibility of a relationship or a shared mutual experience i.e.: very lonely, no friends.

The occurrence of life then isn't an absurd and meaningless occurrence, but has a reason and a purpose who's sake is love and the opportunity to experience, enjoy and to share, and to be known and to know or be recognized while recognizing the other recognizing us recognizing them (our mutual glorification.

There is no reason therefore to dissolve ourselves in this so-called nothing that is everything, but instead every reason to be accepted and reintegrated (forgiven absolutely) as we are, while also accepting others as we are accepted, loved, recognized, forgiven.

The dissolution of the self and the idea that everything is nothing at all, misses the point of life, imho.

"What does it profit a man to gain the whole world but lose his own soul?"

This is only reasonable, while at the same time honoring ourselves and one another as we are, and that's fun and enjoyable, creative, playful, humorous - a celebration even a triumph and a glory that we can all bask in and enjoy together.

Koinonia - intimate, mutual, participatory, communion (togetherness). That's what it's all about. It's the only thing that's worthwhile in the end, and it just so happens to be the only way to really have any fun and be happy, and joyful, even passionate and freely and fully self expressed in self acceptance, but not in any sort of egotistical or self-centered or conceited sense.

"If I seek only my own glory then that is no glory at all!"
~ JC


Cheers,

NAM

P.S. This wasn't "preaching" but basic reason and logic in perfect alignment with "Philosophy and Metaphysics", where in dealing with such things if we get it right and "ring the bell" something of value has been shared among us and more fully grokked, and that too is what it's all about, because then we're sharing real substantial "food" for our mutual enjoyment.

In other words - please don't try to sell me nothing or even everything. Let us simply enjoy each other's company and the meal at hand, one bite at a time, together and then there it is, a meal prepared for we ourselves from before the very foundation of the world!

NewAgeMan
Koinonia

 

Christianity, properly understood, is like a super-overflowing Buddhism that might make you blush and laugh in our mutual glorification and self-other recognition, or simply put, the enjoyment of one another's company.

It's like a Buddhist party at a Wedding Feast, with everyone letting their hair down and celebrating the living, breathing PERSON in their midst even if, at times, that person turns out to be their very own self, reflected in the eyes of their fellow man.

There must be a Zen joke about this somewhere, will try to find it [leaves room].

Fellowship of the Lord

Just because the head of the great "table" (frame) of the Lord and eternal Godhead is not visible or readily apparent to our subjective, sensory impressions, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist or that it wasn't prepared for us, or that there isn't a place set for us at that table, even from the POV of the Earth-plane where we now reside because it's frame extends from Heaven to Earth.

And as wonderful as it would have been to enjoy table fellowship with the human person of Jesus himself, we ought to bear in mind that we who cannot see and yet still believe, by inference, are doubly blessed, and that where two or more of us gather together for his name's sake, there he is sharing his glory with us from the head of the table.

And someone needed to head the table / set the frame, so let us rejoice that it's Him and not merely one of us or instead of everlasting joy and happiness in fellowship with God Himself, there would almost certainly be little more than squabbling and food fights in the absence of that authentic headship/leadership.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


Taking pride in a relationship? Isn't that a sin? Glory is literally pride.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


You don't understand this type of "pride" in this type of relationship or what it means to be "a fool for Christ".

You may note that it also contains an invitation to join others at Christ's table of joy.

And because it travels the whole circuit, one is best not to judge, that you will not be judged, and to have mercy that mercy will be shown you.

You cannot turn the God of love into a proud devil, sorry, it doesn't work, it doesn't pass muster.

To clarify, this isn't a self glorification, but one based on mutuality, and love.

I wish you'd read that story I recommended, then you may get it and begin to understand. It takes humility though, to really "get it" to really "grok" of it and there is no room in it for hatred and spite, so be warned.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

You cannot turn the God of love into a proud devil, sorry, it doesn't work, it doesn't pass muster.

To clarify, this isn't a self glorification, but one based on mutuality, and love.

I don't have to. He was already one before I was ever born.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


You've got your Gods confused.

Take the time to read Lewis' "The Great Divorce" and you'll understand the distinction and why Jesus said and did what he said and did.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


I've already read the Bible. Isn't that good enough?

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Are you full aware that Jesus was and is, God?

Do you know what he said and what he did, and why?

How can you be at enmity with the love of God made manifest/communicated?

We are set free for freedom's sake, to freely love as we are loved.

What's wrong with you? What's your problem?

reply to post by NewAgeMan

Are you full aware that Jesus was and is, God?

I have no substantial reason to believe he was.

Do you know what he said and what he did, and why?

I've read of it, but I have no substantial reason to believe it.

How can you be at enmity with the love of God made manifest/communicated?

I don't know this god and what I do know of him from others is nothing less than abhorrent and appalling.

We are set free for freedom's sake, to freely love as we are loved.

I have experienced this in being an atheist.

What's wrong with you? What's your problem?

I'm just trying to understand some stuff. Do you have a problem?

AfterInfinity
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

I'm just trying to understand some stuff. Do you have a problem?

You're not trying very hard it would seem (points to thread contents above).

I have a bit of a problem being attacked by you for no reason other than to try to get my goat, yeah, it's hurtful and unnecessary.

When will you stop playing the devil's advocate?

The following thread (below) was inspired by what I "grokked" out of reading C.S. Lewis' "The Weight of Glory" and "The Great Divorce" and my God (i really mean that) is it ever playful and amusing in the most joyful and yet serious and grave manner, which as Lewis points out at the very end of "The Weight of Glory" is the only true and authentic "merriment" (Joyfulness) we can have and enjoy, together, which begins with the end in mind in terms of who and what we may be addressing even where the face of Christ may be hidden in the least among us, in our neighbor, and through his eyes as he looks to us.

If he is your Christian neighbor, he is holy in almost the same way, for in him also Christ vere latitat - the glorfier and the glorified, Glory Himself, is truly hidden.

Thread
Why famous (and "powerful") people may have difficulties, in Heaven.


There is great humor and irony in this and a real triumph I do believe, even as it might relate to a satanic world system and all manner of corruption and wickedness, vanity, pride and evil in both "high" (they're never really "high" from the POV of heaven) and low places, if we can accurately discern the nature the true nature of their game, and this issue of God's glory has everything to do with it, but my oh my did the Good Lord ever get the last laugh at the devil's expense, but that he then shares this great triumph with us in all humility as something already held in reserve is just too much to take! It's almost "over the top" if it weren't so perfectly reasonable and practical, and that imho is what makes it even funnier and more enjoyable, is it's unassailable and indomitable nature!

All the lies of history and all manner of human conceit, pride, arrogance, attachments, fall apart at it's feet, weeping, as we the little man, the downtrodden, are handed the last laugh, by that entire satanic system beating madly on the door of heaven as if by sheer force of will and pressure that they can break in and take it by storm, yet there, at that precise gateway access point stands Jesus as tall as heaven is long!

He held firm for us, all the way down the line to protect and hold in reserve all the very best of the best that life even eternal life has to offer and holds in store for those who really love God or who want to with all their heart and soul and strength of will, and courage. What courage it will take and does take to even begin to receive the prescious gift God has offered us in the person of the son of God, freely, and then proceed to work to open it and "grok" for ourselves and for our own mutual enjoyment, it's actual contents? As Lewis points out our initial fear and trembling yields itself to the truth until it (the fear) is rendered an absurdity, in hindsight, and so I guess that's the point at which we begin to get the gift open and take our first peek at what's in the box (frame) as our eyes begin to twinkle in a joy and a merriment that we would not have thought possible.

Thank you God, for the free gift of Jesus Christ. It totally rocks!

I love you, too, and want to learn how to love you more, and in the process love myself and others more, so as to have the guts to open the gift or to walk right through the door and into your loving arms, or like the Prodigal Son be astonished to see you already running to greet me even when I was a long way off yet with the good sense of making a return journey home in the hopes of begging for myself a place even among the servants that I might simply have food enough to eat and satisfy.

It's enough to bring any truly sane and reasonable person to tears, imho, and then to joy in the hand of God alone who is capable of wiping away the tears from our eyes, in sympathetic understanding and an immense love about which we knew nothing, yet immediately recognize.


A Prayer

We all f'd (messed) up Lord. We were absurd. We all sinned.

Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass(ed) against us.

Your logic is magnificent, your reasoning immaculate, your tender mercy and love, unfathomable.

Lord help us to find the laughter and love and joy and merriment on the other side of all our tears of sorrow, suffering, and regret, and help us to begin to see through the doorway of Christ a road to a better world, and let thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven, because we know it's a will to love. In the name of Jesus Christ, amen.

NewAgeMan
So, anyone with me..?

Check that. Anyone with HIM?

I'm going.

There's no where else TO go as far as I can see.


Best Regards,

NAM aka Bob