The Weight of Glory

You're not supposed to copy and paste that much text, NAM. You know that. I do enjoy C.S. Lewis though...

One question: what's with all this glory stuff? Glory is for the ego. Ego is for the sinner. Ergo, glory would be a sin, would it not? In fact, I know it is, because glory goes hand in hand with pride. Only those who are prideful care anything about glory.

akushla99

EnochWasRight

akushla99

EnochWasRight

akushla99
Maybe you could condense that down to a few lines...I'm personally getting jack of cut and paste...its making the ATS experience a really really boring one...so how about it...PRECIS

Å99

edit on 11-11-2013 by akushla99 because: (no reason given)

If you want the diamonds cut to size, dig them out of the ground first.

edit on 11-11-2013 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)

I'm wearing enough weightier ones, thanks EWR...

I'm getting jack of cut and paste (whether it was 'typed out' or not)...

Å99

To me, it's a great way to stumble on writing that others value. I can't get enough of this stuff. It's the The Mind's Treasure Chest really. Do you know jack?

I value it from my bookshelf...I'd much rather see original work from posters...not cut and paste...'jack' - ennui...

Funny you keep using that word because "Jack" was the name C.S. Lewis liked to be called by his friends.

AfterInfinity
You're not supposed to copy and paste that much text, NAM. You know that. I do enjoy C.S. Lewis though...

One question: what's with all this glory stuff? Glory is for the ego. Ego is for the sinner. Ergo, glory would be a sin, would it not? In fact, I know it is, because glory goes hand in hand with pride. Only those who are prideful care anything about glory.

It was only appropriate to present the whole thing for reading and "grokking" pleasure, understanding and comprehension, and it's not THAT long.

As to "glory" there are different types of glory, and the nature of this one isn't selfish, but has mutuality embedded right into it. There is a Greek word for it, koinonia which roughly translates as intimate, participatory sharing in communion.

"If I seek only my own glory then that is no glory at all!" ~ J.C.

But Lewis is right that there is a desire, a yearning and a pining in our innermost heart of hearts who's object we can only intimate or at best catch fleeting, momentary glimpses of from time to time, as "spectators" but that we recognize, looking in from the outside that it is not yet our "estate" it's not the place where we live. Thus his notion, which is not unlike the law of correspondence where for every fundamental need, there is something substantial that is capable of satisfying that need fully and completely, and that if it cannot be satiated in this world, and in this life, then one must conclude that it will be in another whether in the hereafter and/or in the world to come.

I used to be of the mindset that our "work" must entail that of "immanentizing the eschaton" or what might be called a "participatory eschatology" meaning to somehow bring heaven to earth if not by our own doing then at the very least by learning how to receive more and more of it into our domain of being and becoming or put simply to complete the Great Work by completing Christ's circle of joy, and indeed we are called to do this, in the words of Martin Buber

More than any other religious Jewish thinker, Buber placed the active participation of human beings -- as God's partners -- at the heart of messianism. "God has no wish for any other means of perfecting his creation than by our help. He will not reveal his Kingdom until we have laid its foundations" (Farber 90). In the early 1920s Buber stated, "We are living in an unsaved world, and we are waiting for redemption in which we have been called upon to participate in a most unfathomable way"

www.realitysandwich.com...

In the interim however, while we ought to do what we can to bring in even the thinnest sliver of heaven to earth, it's still not the thing itself (Paradise) but apparently at best only some sort of testing ground or learning school as a dimmer reflection of the final glory we seek, and so there remains an "oughtness of the isness of being" which goads us, prods us, and from time to time, applauds us, but we are left wondering if the world we see even including certain "signs and wonders" in the Natural order (which I provided a couple of links to in the text of Lewis' Sermon, as a little hidden treasure to be discovered..) isn't a mere reflection of a higher order and heavenly domain created so that a learning experience might be possible in which case "heaven" may yet elude us here on earth where there must be contrast and choices to be made between good and evil, apathy/indifference and compassionate, loving participation. If it was already heaven in other words, what would be the point? Thus the fundamental dilemma and yearning in the knowledge that we were created for more than this monotonous drudgery with the occasional fleeting moment of blissful happiness and joy (not everlasting but only temporary).

But as he makes clear, it's not a mercenary reward that we are after, in the hereafter, but an unmet need woven right into our innermost heart of hearts as a craving and a longing to be recognized and noticed and fully loved by God who we were created to please, in mutuality, in koinonia.

The reflecting principal and phenomenon woven into the Earth-Moon-Sun system as a sign directed our way ought to be noticed I think and interpreted, as a pointer, the implication of which we are both noticed and given to notice the original intent ie: that this experience isn't a mere fluke or "coincidence" but is meant to serve a purpose and an end who's final glory even that relative to the framework of the cosmos itself (which is mortal/temporal) is but a reflection, intimating a relationship with the Godhead that we still have yet to fully consummate in shared, mutual glory.

"Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven."

By the look of things, this process might take a long time.., much longer than that which might be realized in a single generation or a 1000, and while the willing sacrifice of the true Bodhisattva who, before claiming Nirvana, proclaims that he would rather continue to incarnate as many times as is necessary in order for every blade of grass to become the manifestation of the Living Light, may be admirable and courageous, it might just also be a fools errand, even a type of cowardly act in the final analysis for shying away from the reward and the glory which cannot be grasped selfishly only for one's self anyway, and that overflows even from above, from the incorruptible to the corrupt so that what is lowly may be raised up to increasingly higher heights and invited to put on the glory we were meant and created to eventually wear.

I was looking for a certain Terence McKenna video where he talks about the great relief that the Bodhisattva must have when on the threshold of absolute dissolution and unity and the loss of all personal boundaries and the opportunity for self-determination, he has an "epiphany" and elects to retain his position on the Karmic Wheel for the mutual pursuit of the good (enlightenment of all), which is very funny. I don't know if it's in this video I found,

but I thought I'd add it here anyway, so that we might consider that our world and our reality represents not a capricious addition of "things" from nothing, but instead an intelligent subtraction from the absolute limitless Godhead limiting itself in order so that this life-school including our present human experience might be possible, the implication of which is that we are moving towards and evolving from the POV of a transcendental, transtemporal object at the END of time, which as you know is just the end of one beginning and the beginning of a new one (new Creation).

For the Christian, this is the REAL journey that we are on, towards a relationship and a koinonia with that very object who's symbolic imagery ie: a wedding table etc. although only symbolic, is nevertheless valid as a description.

You ought to read Lewis' sermon, it's worth taking the time to read, and I felt, to type (to share) - took me so long to type it out and set it up in wordpad that I missed the last train last night and was forced to take a taxi home, so it was costly, and I'm glad for that.


Best Regards,

NAM

NewAgeMan

akushla99

EnochWasRight

akushla99

EnochWasRight

akushla99
Maybe you could condense that down to a few lines...I'm personally getting jack of cut and paste...its making the ATS experience a really really boring one...so how about it...PRECIS

Å99

edit on 11-11-2013 by akushla99 because: (no reason given)

If you want the diamonds cut to size, dig them out of the ground first.

edit on 11-11-2013 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)

I'm wearing enough weightier ones, thanks EWR...

I'm getting jack of cut and paste (whether it was 'typed out' or not)...

Å99

To me, it's a great way to stumble on writing that others value. I can't get enough of this stuff. It's the The Mind's Treasure Chest really. Do you know jack?

I value it from my bookshelf...I'd much rather see original work from posters...not cut and paste...'jack' - ennui...

Funny you keep using that word because "Jack" was the name C.S. Lewis liked to be called by his friends.

...or deliberate? That's the thing with written work, authors are often more aware of the littlest of things...thanx for showing some of your own mind...I personally appreciate it, and Lewis, is one of my favorites as a story-teller/symbolist...but symbols can only ever approximate...what are wordsworth?

Cheers

Å99

reply to post by EnochWasRight

EnochWasRight

Reminds me of this:

1 Cor 2:9

9 However, as it is written: "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him"--

...and this from the Midrash:

"Future bliss can neither be imagined, explained, nor described. We know nothing of its nature, form, greatness, or beauty, its quantity or quality. This much one should know, the phrase, "the world to come," does not imply that it is a world yet to be called into existence; it exists already, but the phrase is employed to describe the life into which those who are in the present stage of existence will be transposed when they throw off this mortal coil."

I'm glad you liked it. I figured someone would appreciate it.

Precisely. You grok.

Something substantial (not ephemeral) is being stored up, preserved and held in reserve, and yet as Lewis points out, there is a connecting principal even if only by the merest thread, to an authentic desire implanted in the human heart.

Treasures in Heaven

“Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and woodworm destroy (corruptible, perishable), and where thieves break in and steal (subject to theft/loss).

But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and woodworm do not destroy (incorruptible, transtemporal, immortal), and where thieves do not break in and steal (protected).

For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. (already present, in the very heart of things)

Matthew 6:19-21

Humans don't need glory, that turns into Ego and pride; and God definitely don't need glory from humans.

reply to post by arpgme


You obviously haven't been paying any attention, not even to your own heart and soul's desire.

Edit to add: I think you misunderstand the idea of what is meant by "glory", being presented here, which in truth amounts to the height of humility without even the possibility for pride, in the traditional sense, or false modesty.

You didn't grasp the concept, because you didn't take the time to consider the content, just responded and reacted from a knee-jerk presumption, and that's part of what's wrong with the world these days, the lack of patience and due consideration.

No offence aimed at you personally though.

Best Regards,

NAM

reply to post by NewAgeMan


It wasn't just a knee-jerk reaction, but maybe I misunderstood.

If I understood correctly, "glory" means NOT fame but approval and brilliance - feeling accepted.

Feeling accepted and approved love leads to ego, worrying about one's image to keep that approval coming, and pride if the mind feels TOO special by that approval.

Righteousness, trying to be good to keep that approval can become a real fear with a huge responsibility.


As for God, giving appreciation - love and thank s to God; God doesn't need it and if you think he does you will feel guilty when you feel like you haven't done enough.




When you believe God is in control of all, there is less worries and less aggressiveness to control others.

reply to post by arpgme


I think it's humorous to be loved by God in spite of ourselves where there is nothing we can do to earn or deserve it and no "looking good" by which we may win God's approval, that's not it either.

It's something in the heart something in the soul wherein we come to realize that we were and ARE loved by God, and not estranged, not set apart, and in that loving acceptance and approval which calls us his son/daughter we find a sense of our true home.

The face of God will turn to each one of us, and although God is slow to anger it is not outside the realm of possible to encounter an angry face.

So I think Lewis is right about the nature of heaven being one where we are examined and by the work of Christ survive that examination, to be then accepted and taken in and welcomed into a domain where the very best of the best has been held in reserve for last.

There's is something rather nihilistic and unnatural about the Taost/Buddhist POV ie: that there was no person, no one there to begin with.

The supreme challenge put to us by Christianity is precisely how to receive a free gift of incalculable value (eternal life and glory) for which there is nothing that we can do to earn or deserve it.

It's a weight of glory only the humble can carry, which breaks the back of the prideful and arrogant.

In some ways the Buddhist argument against Christianity is no different from that of the atheist.

Like Lewis said, it's not about what we think of God but what God who knows all thinks of us, and it's a matter of the heart and soul - the parable of the Good Samaritan comes to mind here in being moved to compassion for a stranger, along with the one where Jesus said "what you did (or failed to do) unto the least of my brothers, you did it unto me."

There is something greater here than a trying to win God's approval, or to look good, or seek one's own glory, it's not about that at all, but a great awesomeness we can only faintly intuit which our experience continually suggests but doesn't reveal this side of the veil.

It is possible to store up treasure in heaven where nothing can get at it, and to do so while we are still on the way where our desire and enjoyment for the greatest thing will only grow in power as we learn how to be good for goodness' sake and begin to enjoy a reward that only grows ever larger where for he who has more will be given and from he who has not even what he thinks he has he will lose when it is taken away, by time.


Best Regards,

NAM

reply to post by NewAgeMan


Trying to win a gift that is already given.

I guess it depends on which form of Taoism and Buddhism, but I found something interesting.


Logos = word, way, reason, a force which rules.


Jesus is called Logos and in Chinese Logos is translated as "Tao".

In the beginning was The Logos ( The Way, The Word)... and it was with god and it was god.

Buddhism says enlightenment is getting rid of self to join the emptiness of presence.

The Bible says just as Jesus was crucified, we must crucify our bodies of its passions and desires. (Galatians 5:24)


God rules all. There are no worries as The Almighty's will works through us.

akushla99
Maybe you could condense that down to a few lines...I'm personally getting jack of cut and paste...its making the ATS experience a really really boring one...so how about it...PRECIS

It wasn't a "cut and paste" and was never intended as such, I figured that people still read that's all.., and well if I took the time to type it all out just to get it "out there" and circling the noosphere in the ATS info-knowledge word-castle, that you might recognize how important I think the observation and metaphysical speculation IS and simply accept the referral/reco and well actually READ IT, for once, then comment and talk about it, about what we might have gleaned, or not, and explore that, and so far it's a phenomenal thread as far as I can tell, not that I'm looking for nothing but my own glory here mind you, no like Lewis has suggested the only reasonable thing to do, no matter how unreasonably reasonable it might be is to accept the whole burden, in Christ and in following him, maybe get to someday see it and in seeing it walk right through the door and into a loving embrace, fully reintegrated and accepted AS WE ARE, and that's where it starts to get funny oh but the joke only begins at that point when we come to realize, in hindsight looking back (from where we came) that the whole celebration and the joy and love, and recognition at the introduction of the wedding feast, was done so that it might be also in our own honor as a real live immortal person in God ie: no loss of fundamental personhood status ie: the real YOU as you really are as child of God.

So standing there at the threshold beholding our mutual glorification, invited to a wedding reception at our own honor and shared glory, we might very well burst out in tears. Tears first of regret and sorrow and repentance, then in tears of joy, and then if that weren't enough in laughter, and all emotions mixed together, as we are accepted into a heavenly family even in spite of ourselves, on account of a love of which we had no prior experience or awareness - or in other words, by surprise.

The only question at this point is whether we can eventually stop crying and allow the great hand of God to wipe away the tears from our eyes, and all our bitterness, and unforgiving anger, resentment, revenge, all of it, it's a weight of glory which indeed breaks the back of our pride and vanity and brings to our knees and a heap of tears and, God willing, after the tears, laughter, and love, cheers, and celebration at our courage to accept what God has freely given us via Himself (in Christ) - our own acceptance and recognition, that "inconsolable secret" Lewis speaks of told at last.

It's by far too much to take, especially if we consider the possibility that the cosmos is but a reflection of an even greater domain of limitless possibility, freedom love and best of all, unique self expression and therefore humor, fun, and play.

So I say, as a Christian especially - well played God, well played. GENIUS. Unexpected, a "surprise".

It's like the greatest practical joke ever told, ever.

It's sad, at first, but then, when the first giggle erupts from the tears then look out 'cause then it's a whole new ballgame!

(no emoticon capable of expressing my tearful happy joy joy),

NAM aka Bob

arpgme
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

Trying to win a gift that is already given.

I guess it depends on which form of Taoism and Buddhism, but I found something interesting.


Logos = word, way, reason, a force which rules.


Jesus is called Logos and in Chinese Logos is translated as "Tao".

In the beginning was The Logos ( The Way, The Word)... and it was with god and it was god.

Buddhism says enlightenment is getting rid of self to join the emptiness of presence.

The Bible says just as Jesus was crucified, we must crucify our bodies of its passions and desires. (Galatians 5:24)


God rules all. There are no worries as The Almighty's will works through us.

All true I concur. Well done.

But are or were you aware of how funny God is?

arpgme
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

Trying to win a gift that is already given.

You got it. Heck of a challenge. The gift of course is by far more real and better even than the symbols give it credit however valid they may be as a description.

So it's a gift that we cannot, at present, even begin to imagine, let along receive or unwrap.

That's why I offer this thread in the Spirit of an early ATS Christmas gift. I wanted to do something, knowing full well that I have to take a break from here and get back work and restoring the rolling integrity of the life I'm already living, not that it means anything compared to this greater glory about which by it's very nature we cannot as yet grasp it's outer edge, but if, as Lewis points out with his schoolboy analogy if we are imaginatively reaching for it.. even in a seemingly unconnected manner the thing will begin to make an appearance however tentatively, and that, given the magnitude of it's true glory, is in and of itself something rather quite extraordinary, that the desire can be satisfied to a degree in the search itself, as a courting couple.

I think it's very funny, and very playful, however extraordinary might be the implications and unfathomable dimensions, so it's the joke that just keeps on giving and keeps on getting funnier and more enjoyable as we delve into it further.

NewAgeMan

I thought that was just the funniest thing, once you get past it.

It was part of an ad campaign for Corona Beer, but I removed their little corporate insignia. I found it as a large 4x8 card on a newspaper box outside my office. Loved it. Now it's even better having found the pic on the web to post it here in this thread.


Heh, it's like we're doing some sort of Masonic esoteric initiation process here or something.., which is all about the resurrection principal and entrance into the "celestial lodge" ha HA!

But by framing it relative to the cosmic splendor, alone, they (the Masons) might not grasp the true nature of the Reflecting Principal, he he.. maybe that's just for us to know and them to find out! Ho HO! LOL

Yes, being accepted and recognized on "the in" is a big part of it, of the nature of true glory what a BRILLIANT observation by Lewis I am grateful to him for this understanding and the chance to share in it's contemplation. Now I also understand better the ending, about taking each other much more seriously, so as to enjoy true merriment, awesome insight in recognition that it's framed as a relative principal of mutuality, which is Christ through and through and in alignment with the nature of his higher love which is actually capable of loving God and neighbor as self. Sounds like a tall order I realize, but not when you really consider that nothing else makes any rational sense whatsoever to begin with, so it can strike us as a humorous mercy that is not without it's mirth and sense of playfulness and joy and thus the hand of God that wipes away the tears from our eyes and says with a big smile "come on in!"

akushla99
Maybe you could condense that down to a few lines...I'm personally getting jack of cut and paste...its making the ATS experience a really really boring one...so how about it...PRECIS

Å99

Ok A99, basically he's saying that "glory" in the proper sense is being "somebody" in heaven, where human concepts around pride and vanity are turned on their head and given their appropriate expression. Not a "nobody", but a somebody special and unique, recognized and accepted and integrated (hugged) ie: loved, as we are (even in spite of ourselves), and even as a real person without loss of integrity only made to "put on glory" although I'm sure that things like memory and form may change or transform into something that we cannot at present even begin to imagine.

It's starts here and now, of course, but under the burden and the weight of such glory, and he's also saying that eventually, because we become immortal creatures of great splendor or perhaps in some cases, a living nightmare, who's worst torture of all is being simply ignored by God who knows and sees all and is everywhere - that we ought to be taking each other much more seriously, without being too solemn, in order to begin to experience a real merriment as a foretaste of what's to come since it's a relative framework of mutuality whereby we must carry the burden and the weight of glory, together, and on each other's behalf, even if the weight of it means the back of our pride gets broken, since it's to be a shared glory with none other than Christ Himself. Ha!

It is thus filled with mirth and charm and the possibility for good humor and playfulness and so we must learn how to become again as little children to enter into it, innocent, open eyed, ready to enjoy whatever heaven might have to offer - ready to receive it's splendor and glory no matter what God might have in store/in mind where at the great wedding feast the best wine is held in reserve, for last! ie: it just keeps on getting better and does not lose it's splendor, as this world does ie: incorruptible.

It's scary-good way WAY better than anything that we might have expected or imagined, but at the same time we can get started right here and now by simply desiring it, because where our heart is there will our treasure be also. If however it's too far removed, using a school boy analogy about learning Greek to read Greek poetry, he points out that it involves the use of imagination and desire to begin to get us directing our desire at the right object, even if we haven't yet had the actual experience of the thing itself, yet, by this ascending process of increasing mastery leading up to Greek poetry, we can ignite our desire for and the power to seek it (the final object) out, in this instance that one quintessential best of the very best thing capable of fully satisfying and bringing everlasting joy, and then some because it's given to us by God, yes as a reward or a prize, and yes more often than not even in spite of ourselves, our own innermost heart's desire, so it's both a very pleasant surprise and the very thing you've been really wanting and asking for, all along (and them some for good measure Ho! Ho! Ho!).

That's a reasonable summation, hope it helps.

Best Regards,

NAM

The implication of this, if true, is that here on Earth where perhaps it might be said that "the last are first and the first, last", that the last being last or most recent, are first, or in other words that it's right here from this monkey-like body and this earth-plane, that the final transformation to immortality takes place, whereby Jesus Christ really IS the tree of life in our midst even if we didn't know it, not even the "Christian", not really, not "seriously", and wherein we've already been received meaning that eternal life is already our prior condition within the acceptance and recognition itself, so it's all coming from the right place and from the right direction, and we can therefore, with humility (which means to know one's self as you truly are), feel great about it and begin to wonder in awe at it's implications yet at the same time without having anything to brag about, LOL.

And wouldn't that be funny, if for that one fundamental unmet desire that we have our whole lives, that yearning for glory, that there may exist it's corresponding object (and I don't mean 99 virgins) waiting for us all along where our deepest regrets and fears are instantly turned to our greatest joy and liberation from fear, which is rendered absurd in light of this recognition?

So to his essay I would add that from the "thin line" connecting this glory to our heart's desire, that there is also a communication taking place, if we would only allow it according to the power and direction of our desire (and by reading the Gospels), a line that extends itself in a loving invitation and calls you by name and says "HEY _____ - yes YOU! You "Bob" (in my case) are hereby invited to a great party and a wedding celebration being thrown in your own honor!" "What about everyone else, you (I) might ask..?" "Oh, well, you were the last to "get it" so everyone else is already inside waiting for you, and in some cases they've been waiting quite literally for AGES so you'd better hurry up! Don't worry about it though because once you're inside you'll realize that time doesn't exist the way you might have once thought about it and well to be honest I say that to everyone I see at this door just for kicks gets them running in enthusiastically every time. (doorman emoticon, miss the goatee)

reply to post by NewAgeMan


That was very sweet of you to do that NAM...A+ for effort alone!
...and I'm glad that you've seen the humour of it all, in your own special way...see! It never was (and never is) necessary for anyone to foister thier anger, resentment and revenge by proxy, and no-one but yourself will answer the rhetorical questions of import...but, you should knoe this. Well done!

The empath monster is a more problematic hurdle for many...there are compromises, and "compromises", but, that beast is best kept bridled (take that, as an offering from me)...the emotional fireworks really helps no-one, and that one gift is priceless...the unlabelable can remain unlabelled, clear for you to swim in the joyous ocean of the grand joke...certainly, not a new revelation, and not even confined to this parochial little patch of a miniscule cog of created worlds...

All those treasured little glimpses, in whatever OCD boxes they are placed, are pieces of a white puzzle, that we're assembling...none of us 'owns' the pieces (but children in the ME, MY, MINE stages, should be allowed to clutch those pieces and hang on for dear life - bless thier doe-eyed little hearts) I excuse you for that...but, sharing is caring...

Glory is in the living, God is a comedian...and Lewis held a few puzzle pieces...important ones, but extrapolating into Catherine Wheel, self-referential truths should be seen for what they are, especially given the wealth of puzzle pieces on offer throughout history, from all over the world, in some of the most obscure and unlikely places...you'd knoe them if you actually went there, otherwise they are hidden and esoteric, mysterious and foreboding...dark, unlit and eeevil...what does fear do to the physiology, and what does the thrilling do...we are no glorified animals!...yet, when confronted, we seem to have scant control...fight, or flight? Fighting requires no enemy, and enemies can/are/and have been made-up on whim...flight, is living on the run in fear...that's the animals' response...we have the double-edged sword of advanced consciousness, that invents on the fly...if you understand this, the history of the capacity for man to invent, is an open book...and these inventions are very apparent!

Lines of communication get waaay garbled...you get what you ask for, and in the getting is the message reinforced, like a whirling top that you spin under your own steam...everything 'falls into place'...but, you asked for it to, so it does, and this reinforces your conviction...spinning round and round and round...that cycle needs to broken somewhere to embrace with open arms the fact that you are the author of your experiences...in the image were we made creators...

Lewis', and your feast, is here and now, and always has been...we're all at the table eating the food we made...some are laughing heartily...others are complaining about the food they prepared themselves...and blaming the hashed meal on invisible parties to abrogate thier own involvement...

Å99

akushla99
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

Lewis', and your feast, is here and now, and always has been...we're all at the table eating the food we made...some are laughing heartily...others are complaining about the food they prepared themselves...and blaming the hashed meal on invisible parties to abrogate thier own involvement...

Very good, a joke secretly told by us, to ourselves and at our own expense, I get that one, sort of.. lol, but I think it gets even better even RICHER, in it's continuance. Life is cyclical, so it's not out of the realm of possible that it rotates in an ascending hierarchy or a "kingdom of heaven", whereby every lesson learned, every morsel we're been able to "grok" or eat, leads to an even greater thing, or in other words that there is a feast and a celebration and many good jokes to be had that we've yet to experience, and can only at this stage of the game merely intimate and suspect as our ongoing experience continually suggests it. If so we are only half-hearted as Lewis says in this life with exceedingly low expectations, low hopes and dreams, valuations and estimations of our own worth and value, or lack thereof. How then will we be prepared to handle even greater glories whereby the first one of the whole series is already present yet unseen?

Let us therefore increase our desire by many many orders of magnitude, even if only as a hope for better things in store as yet unseen, and both magnify our own desire, while placing it first on the kingdom of heaven or the kingdom of God where that same desire is satisfied even if only as a mere taste as our own desire for the good is at last attached to the object itself.

These are not merely childish pursuits though. As Lewis points out it carries with it a "weight of glory", enough to break the back of our pride and prepare us for a whole series of happy and joyous things, things of which we only suspected but that when they come will come only by pleasant surprise.

It's safe to pray for the good, in other words.

It brings as much anticipatory joy and happiness as it does fear and trembling (the weight of glory). And how could it be any other way and preserve it's immense overflowing value, but, to be very costly, or as Lewis points out at the end of his talk, something, including our selves and our fellow man, to be taken very very seriously, and not flippantly as we tend to do, as you have, to a degree, by calling me childish and completely 100% at cause, because it that was the case let me tell you we'd already be screwed and at a bit of a loss as to where to go from here.

If it doesn't come from above, then at some point it runs the risk of losing it's sense of humor and charm, we need to see that at the moment our pride is broken, or the joke dies with us in an inconsolable heap of tears without end, except by the hand that is capable of wiping them away, at last, which is the hand only of God because at this point nothing less will do, and there "we" are together, the lover and beloved, discovered at last, even if only in the first instance in epiphany and, at some point the laughter and joy of the saved soul.


Best Regards,

NAM aka Bob
Your brother, in Christ.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


Speaking my language!

Blessings NAM

Å99