If you don't believe in Aliens you are CRAZY!

reply to post by Char-Lee


Sure, they could be our best friends...or our worst enemies.

What makes you so confident they would be of the former variety?

CJCrawley
reply to post by Char-Lee

 

Sure, they could be our best friends...or our worst enemies.

What makes you so confident they would be of the former variety?

My reply only cover aliens who may be sharing this planet with us...in fact not aliens but unknown earth dwellers. My "confidence" in them not wanting to harm us (unless maybe we ruin their environment) is because they have not attacked so far as far as I can see if they are there they seem to keep to themselves.

CJCrawley
reply to post by Char-Lee

 

Sure, they could be our best friends...or our worst enemies.
What makes you so confident they would be of the former variety?

Good point. Count how many friends you have compared to all the people and animals in the world.

reply to post by AliceBleachWhite


I agree.

This planet is isolated, all ideas originated from us, our collective of people. At some point we would have finished heaven and could say we did ourselves, all of it and that is something to be proud of to have added to. Even if at the time a person couldn't and was a bad person, even after it would be finished they could do good things by working on the hell which would be deserted by then ofcourse but it could still be cleaned up. They would have to anyway since they needed to do something to deserve making it into heaven, that is how it was before.

But if we let ET's into our minds that would have to be sorted which would mean extra work. And the heaven would be slightly less perfect since if an ET would ever fall or end ours would be in jeopardy also. Yes I know all about the place without time where everything is perfect, the highest of all heavens and everything. But that is just one place and everything else is not permanent. The trick is to set dates with others as far in the future as possible, with proper training ofcourse. How it works is for example I might choose to think of starting a business today and tomorrow some people might notice new stuff on their roads ahead and they could respond to that as well so they would eventually have a complete picture of the future with the global markets and all, cashflows, even weddings and dating can all be planned. However, figuring it out yourself is what defines life and getting plans for a heaven from another species from another planet would not count and it would be forever or until it would be abandoned and then those people would have to start all over again like going back through time to a lesser situation.

Aliens are all around us, especially in nevada, I have seen countless UFO'S zipping around in the sky.

reply to post by Ectoplasm8


Intelligence is not an asbolute requirement to live in deep space or travel around space. In fact of all the creatures on Earth only some bacteria (and perhaps fungi) have proven to be able to survive the rigours of vacuum and cosmic radiation and zero gravity for any length of time. Some are so adept at this that I have my suspicions that they may have arrived here in this very manner, or at least their ancestors.

en.wikipedia.org...

The latest research points to ways where microbes or plant material can be launched into space and remain viable or at least their organic material can be preserved, even ones that are not initially space adapted.

www.theaustralian.com.au...

A bacteria isn't very intelligent on our standard IQ scale now is it? However they may work together between individual bacteria and with other species (and in fact do work together) to change the environment to suit them. They display what one might call an emergent intelligence. As you have eluded to , all species on Earth seem to interact to maintain a fairly stable climate for life for most of the time (of course there have been ice ages, snowball earth, change from reducing to oxidising atmosphere, but usually the atmosphere seems to be well balanced due to the influence of living organisms).

Now imagine creatures that have evolved on a planet or moon somewhere else. Maybe that moon or planet has much weaker gravity? Maybe there are huge numbers of moons in close proximity whereby they seed life on one another easily and some creatures evolve to travel between these moons and eventually the ability to live in deep space. Did not the same happen on Earth, with creatures supposedly evolving in the ocean first, then living in the intertidal zone and then making it onto land proper and into the air and down into the subsurface?

Even if they didn't evolve this ability 'naturally', they could use their intelligence to also develop space vehicles, but due to low gravity the ease with which this is achieved could be a million times easier than Earth? Of course to travel far they may need to develop what we could call high technology, but perhaps they live for millions of years so it doesn't bother them to take long trips. Maybe they have some handy neutron star or exotic elements or tonnes of plutonium to power their ships without going to extraordinary lengths to get the stuff like here. There are trillions of planets out there. This scenario HAS to have occurred and it should have occurred many many times.

So you have got MANY and diverse routes for creatures to colonise space, both non intelligent and intelligent and intelligent in different forms and ways.

The most powerful force in nature was discovered over a 150 years ago. It was called EVOLUTION. It's major tenet? That organisms will continually evolve due to competition for resources and between species and to adapt to new environments. Once an organism adapts to living and travelling in space, what will stop it travelling into space? How will it become extinct and disappear?


It won't, it will evolve and diversity and spread to new habitats. Space and Earth are not separate entities. We are part of the galactic ecosystem, which is part of the universe's ecosystem. We are very possibly the descendants of a galactic wide organism, most likely one of many space adapted microbes that landed on Earth billions of years and found it to it's liking. This organism may have even evolved from a more intelligent organism (what some might call retro evolution), evolution is not directed in a pathway, organisms simply evolve to survive efficiently in their given environment.

if we continue using radio waves to search for EBE's we wont find any that's for sure. That was ok in the 70's and the 80's, we are in 2013 ffs, so let's start using other means, i'm sure NASA has them, they are 30 + years more advanced than they are letting us know.

could it be that we created this idea of ET's existing outside our planet as a need to justify we being all alone in this rock, just like we created the idea of a life after death.

imagine the shock of we knowing there isnt a life after death or that there's isnt something/someone out there...

Picollo30
if we continue using radio waves to search for EBE's we wont find any that's for sure. That was ok in the 70's and the 80's, we are in 2013 ffs, so let's start using other means, i'm sure NASA has them, they are 30 + years more advanced than they are letting us know.

We've started using other means. That could be a whole other thread. Interested? And no, advanced aliens are likely to be much more than 30 years more advanced. More like 30 million to 2 billion years.

Picollo30
could it be that we created this idea of ET's existing outside our planet as a need to justify we being all alone in this rock, just like we created the idea of a life after death.

imagine the shock of we knowing there isnt a life after death or that there's isnt something/someone out there...

You're taking god. Not aliens.

reply to post by JadeStar


excuse my ignorance but what other means? you mean the Hubble space telescope?

JadeStar

Picollo30
if we continue using radio waves to search for EBE's we wont find any that's for sure. That was ok in the 70's and the 80's, we are in 2013 ffs, so let's start using other means, i'm sure NASA has them, they are 30 + years more advanced than they are letting us know.

We've started using other means. That could be a whole other thread. Interested? And no, advanced aliens are likely to be much more than 30 years more advanced. More like 30 million to 2 billion years.

edit on 14-11-2013 by JadeStar because: (no reason given)

i was talking about Nasa here, i'm sure NASA is more technologically advanced than we think. i'm sure Nasa scientists are hoarding this tech and not sharing it for the benefit of us all as they should.

I totally believe in aliens - they have a problem with them at the Mexican border.



On the other hand, there might be an individual in an alien planet looking up at the sky wondering if his/her civilization is alone.

JadeStar

Picollo30
could it be that we created this idea of ET's existing outside our planet as a need to justify we being all alone in this rock, just like we created the idea of a life after death.

imagine the shock of we knowing there isnt a life after death or that there's isnt something/someone out there...

You're taking god. Not aliens.

no i'm just stating that the existence of alien life outside our rock is as important as the concept of an afterlife or ressurection. christianity is based on the concept of ressurection (jesus rising from the dead). imagine if both (existence of intelligent alien life and afterlife) ideas are wrong, that would be a shock for everyone, it would be an existence without meaning.

Picollo30


i was talking about Nasa here, i'm sure NASA is more technologically advanced than we think. i'm sure Nasa scientists are hoarding this tech and not sharing it for the benefit of us all as they should.

edit on 14-11-2013 by Picollo30 because: (no reason given)

Well there are few things wrong with what you said.

#1 NASA has not done radio SETI since the mid 90s. Infact they are forbidden (by Congress) from doing it.

#2 NASA scientists aren't "hoarding" any tech. You know who is though? The NRO, the NSA, etc, whose budgets are HUGE compared to NASA's very modest budget and they employ quite a few scientists who COULD be helping to look for ETI with those same instruments the intelligence agencies are hoarding and using to look at the Earth rather than out into space.

Fight the REAL enemy. It's not NASA.

That said, there are a whole bunch of different things people are pursuing in SETI these days beyond listening for radio signals.

Here's a brief rundown of them. (I think this might be its own thread)

1. Looking for other planets like the Earth using Kepler, other space telescopes (Spitzer and James Webb soon) as well as very large ground based telescopes.
   
   
2. Searching for Dyson Spheres, Dyson Shells and Ringworlds using data from the WISE telescope.
   
   
3. Searching for perhaps ancient alien artifacts on the moon using LRO imagery.
   
   
4. Scanning the Earth-Moon Lagrange points for alien probes placed there due to their stable orbits using ground based optical, near IR and radio telescopes.
   
   
5. Designing a telescope to look for waste energy produced by a technological civilization on an exoplanet (Colossus telescope).
   
   
6. Designing a coronagraph and advanced spectrographs to seek out the spectrographic signature of life in the atmospheres of nearby exoplanets.
   
   
7. Designing space telescope optics which could detect the signature of artificial light on the night side of an exoplanet.
   
   
8. Searching for artificial light in the solar system's Kuiper Belt and Oort cloud (where an alien factory of sorts could be converting cometary material (Carbon, Hydrogen, Oxygen, Nitrogen aka CHON) into useful things ie: like the Heechee in Frederik Pohl's Gateway sci-fi saga.
   
   
9. Looking for messages encoded in DNA.
   
   
10. Looking into whether quantum entanglement can be used in any way to carry information.
    
    
11. Searching for the "double peak" brightening signature of an artificial, traversable wormhole in gravitational microlensing and Kepler data.
    
    
12. Looking for gravity wave anomalies which may indicate exotic physics (ie: warp drives, space folds, etc) being utilized by an advanced ETI.
    
    
13. Looking for gamma ray anomalies which may indicate the use of anti-matter by a starship if coming from a rapidly moving point source with no natural explanation.
    

There are probably a few I am forgetting but yeah, contrary to the popular image, SETI is more than radio.

And I just outlined the stuff that looks for or plans to look for intelligent aliens. There's a whole field of astrobiology which is looking for much simpler life on other worlds and the two overlap quite a lot.

Of course not all of this research is done at NASA per-se. It's NASA data in some cases, for instance, in the case of the space telescopes or probes which is sifted through though.

JadeStar
We've started using other means. That could be a whole other thread. Interested? And no, advanced aliens are likely to be much more than 30 years more advanced. More like 30 million to 2 billion years.

30 million to 2 billion; years older I could buy, more advanced? Not so much.

When Et visited 8000 years ago he was using rockets to travel from the surface to orbit, not un like the shuttle.

In the middle ages, ET was using some sort of air/space craft, still propelled by chemicals.

Today he uses a gravity drive.

That is really slow progress! And, makes ET at the very best 8000 years more advanced.

The likelihood of significant spiritual advances in even 30 million years of evolution makes the probability that any extraterrestrials that advanced would likely be far more interested in ascension than exploration.

In any case; given the nature of ET's technology, I see absolutely no reason that ET needs to be more than a few hundred years more advanced...at the very best.

tanka418

JadeStar
We've started using other means. That could be a whole other thread. Interested? And no, advanced aliens are likely to be much more than 30 years more advanced. More like 30 million to 2 billion years.

30 million to 2 billion; years older I could buy, more advanced? Not so much.

When Et visited 8000 years ago he was using rockets to travel from the surface to orbit, not un like the shuttle.

In the middle ages, ET was using some sort of air/space craft, still propelled by chemicals.

Today he uses a gravity drive.

That is really slow progress! And, makes ET at the very best 8000 years more advanced.

And how do you know that physics is not a limiting factor?

There most likely IS a ceiling to what can be done in physics that is applicable to space travel.

ie: Your car runs on the same stuff today that they ran on in 1913.

Bad analogy because there are hybrids, electric cars, etc. But what I mean is, what can be done with an internal combustion engine today is essentially the same as in 1913. It will not fly you to the moon.

That's the ceiling for that technology.

Once a civilization reaches that ceiling with space drives they might move on to other areas of advancement.

We simply don't know.

But trust me, we're FAR from being able to do any of the things suggested in sci-fi or alleged UFO encounters from an above ground, propulsion physics point of view.

That would make them more advanced technologically by a WIDE margin.

If you don't believe in Aliens you are CRAZY!

So if im on the fence about aliens, dose that make me bipolar?

JadeStar

And how do you know that physics is not a limiting factor?

There most likely IS a ceiling to what can be done in physics that is applicable to space travel.

ie: Your car runs on the same stuff today that they ran on in 1913.

Bad analogy because there are hybrids, electric cars, etc. But what I mean is, what can be done with an internal combustion engine today is essentially the same as in 1913. It will not fly you to the moon.

That's the ceiling for that technology.

Once a civilization reaches that ceiling with space drives they might move on to other areas of advancement.

We simply don't know.

But trust me, we're FAR from being able to do any of the things suggested in sci-fi or alleged UFO encounters from an above ground, propulsion physics point of view.

That would make them more advanced technologically by a WIDE margin.

Actually they did have electric cars back in the day. They didn't make out so well cause of battery technology.

Ya know; I think I could get an internal combustion system to generate enough power to go to the moon. I would have to be assembled in space though, and it would be large and heavy (massive). But, with the proper computer controls One can get an amazing amount of power out of an internal combustion engine.

for instance; in 1979 computers were just being applied to automobiles. My 79 280Z has a 150hp engine with an analog computer running it, it is 2.8 liters and 6 cylinders. It was considered rather high performance back in the day. Today, there are 4 calendar engines with less than 2 liters that output more horsepower and torque; all because of the digital computer system, and all the sensors. My "Z car" generated about 120KW, a modern high performance 4 cylinder can easily generate 200KW +.

Using an internal combustion power plant in this manner is very inefficient. If it were to be employed like a locomotive, the available energy is increased and the fuel decreased.

Yes if we go with conventional physics the end of possibility is neigh. The very reason that horizons must be expanded and areas of novel physics explored. Such as with the work in Europe on artificial gravity and gravity drive systems. The so-called Heim-Lorentz drives.

There is also work being done on "Warp drives". And, there are a number of other possibilities that exist for cheating the physics of the "very fast". It also appears that there may be other "Lorentz" like effects that can be exploited and may even open up new areas of physics, technology and industry.

Reaching those technological and scientific ceilings is what I'm talking about. At some point a civilization may simply decide to "stay home".