If you don't believe in Aliens you are CRAZY!

JadeStar

It is highly unlikely that nearby aliens would be anywhere near our age. They'd likely be vastly older or vastly younger.

You see, our planet, our solar system is 4.5 billion years old. The galaxy is around 12 billion years old. A majority of stars in our galaxy are 6 to 9 billion years old.

The odds that any two civilizations which met would be from planets around the same age is extremely unlikely.

The vast amount of alien life is likely to be in some cases much more advanced (like we might be in 500 million-2 billion years) or much more primitive (like Earth life 500 mllion to 2 billion years ago).

When talking about alien life you aren't just talking about deep SPACE. You're talking about deep TIME.

You base your guesses on what data?

There is actually very little data available about how old a star needs to be to have life like is on Earth. Hermes would suggest that we look for stars of similar age, but when talking "stars" this becomes a bit problematic. Earth for instance had been bombarded for its entire life by local space "stuff". The environment here wasn't even suitable for current life for nearly a billion years. And then Earth suffered a string of near extinction events; culminating in what is known today.

Again Hermes, and logic tell us that conditions are going to be very much the same everywhere else. Thus stars as young as 1.5 billion years will probably have life associated, but, that life will not be complex ,nor evolved enough to be nearly as advanced as Earth. But at 2 or 3 billion years? That can change dramatically.

You state that most stars In the galaxy are 6 - 9 billion years old. Yet, if we take a look at current ET mythology; we find that there is not a single species "reportedly" from a star over 5.5 billion years, and no younger than around 4 billion. This leaves a rather narrow range for the kind of life we are looking for.

Returning to myth for a moment; around 500 - 600 years or so ago there were some now famous "wood cuts" depicting aerial battle between unknown aircraft. Well we know they weren't from Earth. So that leaves little guess work. The important thing to note here is that just like the viamanas of ancient India; these craft were chemical powered.

This would see to date ET's technology, at right about where Terrestrial technology is right now. Thus your ET's are not so advanced.

Did you know that terrestrial technology has been held back for at least 1500 - 1700 years? First by Caesar (I forget which one), and later by the church. Caesar nixed steam power over 2000 years ago (it was though it would interfere with the slave economy). It is of course impossible to determine what might have been without this interference, but certainly much further along than where y'all are now.

So, I think, base on the data I've seen, that most space faring life seen near Earth is likely to be much close to Terrestrials that "science" thinks. And, we haven't even started with the spiritual evolution of ET vs Terrestrials yet. And, that spiritual evolution is far more important than physical evolution. And, it will be this spiritual factor that will throw the "monkey wrench" into what Science [I]thinks[/I].

Oh by the way: I found and downloaded the Gliese catalog, they are calling it V3.0, and I can also get the "HIP" and TYCO catalogs. Which of these would you recommend?

Good points tanka. Very good points.

I based what I said on a very simplistic scenario where all planets which could produce life evolved roughly with the same hiccups we've had on earth due to bombardment and with our rate of biological evolution. It was just a logic argument that if you start a race and one planet has a 3 billion year head start then its unlikely that if the race finished the two planet's species would be at roughly the same level of intelligence or technology.

Overly simplistic but I did it to illustrate a point that it seems very unlikely that given all the variation planetary system ages that any two civilizations would be roughly at the same level.

I'd suggest the next line of reasoning would be to think of what might place a tighter temporal limit on advanced ETs more than a billion years older than us.

And yes, different planets will have different levels of bombardment and "restarts" however without knowing a lot more about habitable planets and their local environments (ie level of bombardment) as well as if evolution would take the same amount of time in an environment similar but slightly different than ours (ie UV flux being slightly higher or lower), it will be just guessing.

That's what is exciting about today, these are questions we can begin to address with careful study of instrument data.

reply to post by JadeStar


Upper temporal limits...what is the average "life span" of a complex Terrestrial species? I think I read it was a few million years.

Humans should do better...

In Human history there are records of ET's visiting one can almost watch the progress of ET's technology by reading ancient to modern accounts of interactions.

8000 years ago ET used rather crude "rocket" technology to move from the surface to orbit, today he uses some sort of novel science to propel his air/space craft.

In the middle ages there are reports of air combat between ET factions; most of the craft seemed more like a "space plane", but apparently still used chemical propulsion "in atmosphere".

Today ET uses novel physics and some sort of gravity drive.

Also, today, 2013; Earth has the science and technology to build virtually the same "equipment" that ET is currently using. (and for some of y'all; no its not reverse engineered) Earth has the novel science, and the technologies to make it work.

So...ET, no matter how he got to where he is, Terrestrial Humans have arrived there as well.

Now that temporal limit...

Esoteric and spiritual teachings from ancient times have strongly indicated that mankind is evolving toward a single goal; Ascension. According to Karmic Theory we are all here to experience, when we have experienced enough we ascend. This typically works on an individual level; however, it can be observed on a species, and cultural level as well. And, of course, it works for ET as well.

As a people continue to evolve, they begin to spread out into space, and encounter other species. Many of these encounters actually "retard" the most advanced species, and accelerate the lesser evolved, thus making their "development" appear about the same. The real differences will be on the spiritual level for all species. Ultimately the more advanced will disappear, and be replaced with the other, and yet others will "join" the pack.

The thing is that planets that could be "millions" of years in advance, are likely populated by a more primitive species, and represents the next "Generation" of "original" evolution for the planet.

Now then, I will give ya; some ET's may be more spiritually evolved than Terrestrial Humans.

Also; if you've noticed, given that Zeta Retculi is 4.75 billion years old (average of oldest and youngest estimates), And Tau Ceti being the only other star, at about 5.6 billion, to have "mythical" life. It would seem that the range for space faring life forms is rather narrow...about a 1.2 billion year window.

The recently suggested potential for their being billions of Earth-like planets out there in the galaxy doesn't necessarily increase the odds of their being intelligent life or civilizations out there, because having a potentially viable planet is only one of the many, many factors in the "creation" or "happening" of life, intelligent or otherwise.

The fact is, we don't know how life got its start on Earth, and until we figure that out, we can't say for sure what it takes for life to start anywhere else.

If anything, the greater potential for aliens actually makes the lack of aliens even more problematic. Fermi's question was always basically, "There are plenty opportunities and time for aliens to exist and visit us, so where are they?" More opportunities and still no aliens actually makes the argument stronger that there aren't any.

I'm inclined to think the various factors that could speed up or slow down the evolution of life on a particular planet would tend to cancel each other out. This could produce something roughly comparable to the rate of evolution we have on our planet, even if the particular set of plusses and minuses were somewhat different.
In the past, whenever we've though that our situation in the universe was somehow special, it has eventually been learned that this was a mistaken notion, based on limited information.

THe Fermi Paradox seems to have made no reckoning of the possibility that as life expanded from various points in the galaxy, it would eventually involve itself in a unified galactic community. If this happened, it could well be that the actions of the members of such a community became coordinated, seeking common goals. Being latecomers ourselves, on the galactic scene, we may well have been born into a largely orderly, lawful galaxy.
Given the lack of overt contact with the rest of the galaxy , it is not unreasonable to suppose that we are, on this planet, the denizens of a galactic cultural and biological preserve. Presumably, when we begin to show the ability to seriously interfere with our nearest galactic neighbors, or when we seem inclined to destroy that which has been preserved on our behalf, the rest of the galaxy will have begun to make itself known to us.

Blue Shift
The recently suggested potential for their being billions of Earth-like planets out there in the galaxy doesn't necessarily increase the odds of their being intelligent life or civilizations out there, because having a potentially viable planet is only one of the many, many factors in the "creation" or "happening" of life, intelligent or otherwise.

No the probability of intelligent hasn't changed with the increase of possible planets; however the number of intelligent species has in direct proportion to the increase in the number of planets

If anything, the greater potential for aliens actually makes the lack of aliens even more problematic. Fermi's question was always basically, "There are plenty opportunities and time for aliens to exist and visit us, so where are they?" More opportunities and still no aliens actually makes the argument stronger that there aren't any.

There is no lack of "aliens". It would appear that you have just about the right number based on probability. Perhaps you and Fermi should "look around".

Ross 54
I'm inclined to think the various factors that could speed up or slow down the evolution of life on a particular planet would tend to cancel each other out. This could produce something roughly comparable to the rate of evolution we have on our planet, even if the particular set of plusses and minuses were somewhat different.
In the past, whenever we've though that our situation in the universe was somehow special, it has eventually been learned that this was a mistaken notion, based on limited information.

Anybody with a shred of brains could have figured out we weren't anything special in a vast universe pretty much containing similar stuff everywhere.

The idea that we aren't anything special ALSO goes back to some Greek thinkers.

Stop thinking about civilizations and start thinking about how life spreads in ecosystems to fill available niches. I guess for that many of you would have to pick up a science book, be hard work eh?

Ross 54
THe Fermi Paradox seems to have made no reckoning of the possibility that as life expanded from various points in the galaxy, it would eventually involve itself in a unified galactic community. If this happened, it could well be that the actions of the members of such a community became coordinated, seeking common goals. Being latecomers ourselves, on the galactic scene, we may well have been born into a largely orderly, lawful galaxy.
Given the lack of overt contact with the rest of the galaxy , it is not unreasonable to suppose that we are, on this planet, the denizens of a galactic cultural and biological preserve. Presumably, when we begin to show the ability to seriously interfere with our nearest galactic neighbors, or when we seem inclined to destroy that which has been preserved on our behalf, the rest of the galaxy will have begun to make itself known to us.

I agree that it's a bit puzzling that we haven't picked up any alien life yet. But it could also well be because our scientific instruments resolution are too puny. Wait a couple of decades and we may have concrete proof that life is out there , as for intelligent space faring life..they should be common..but maybe they don't travel in obvious ways to us.

ManInAsia

I agree that it's a bit puzzling that we haven't picked up any alien life yet. But it could also well be because our scientific instruments resolution are too puny. Wait a couple of decades and we may have concrete proof that life is out there , as for intelligent space faring life..they should be common..but maybe they don't travel in obvious ways to us.

What I find puzzling is how Terrestrial Humans can be given all the evidence they could possibly need, and then reject it out of hand.

It is unfortunate that so many seem to require a kind of proof that is wholly unreasonable. Many even place greater importance on "proof" for ET than they require to take a man's life.

You all cry for ET to make contact. Yet when he does; you all cry "delusional!"

You sit in your little worlds and wonder "why" and I see damn few who have the strength to actually attempt to find answers.

If you want proof, you will not find it where you are looking; that should be obvious. Try looking in plain sight...Start with the Betty Hill Star Map.

Given all the probabilities involved; that single case should be all the "proof" you need. And there are actually others, though, not with the abundance of evidence. There is a lesser known case of extraterrestrial visitation from down-under. In this case DNA was recovered; and shown to not be Terrestrial.

I like this post by Sleeper in his big thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by trelofearth
Hello again sleeper,

In your blog you said that there are billions of other planets just like ours in the universe with people just like us leading similar lives.

How is that possible?

**********************************************************************************************************************

It’s impossible for it not to be possible---lol

It's more than pretty obvious. And this isn't even addressing another story or dimension to the building, just our one alone, not to mention its a multiverse.

Happy1
reply to post by JadeStar

 

Speaking to the OP - and realizing what he is saying - WOW - I guess I'm crazy - I don't believe in aliens.

What is the gov't going to do about me?

Nothing, look at this way. If they are covering up alien life they already won where you are concerned so they don't have to do anything.

The Bot

reply to post by CJCrawley

Take the - admittedly silly - analogy of suddenly discovering a new super power (I don't know, living in the Antarctic underground maybe). One that was possibly more powerful than the US/Russia/China combined.

Would you clap your hands in excitement and go, "OMG!! I can't wait to meet my new friends!!"

Yes! they haven't hurt us so why think powerful means cruel and untrustworthy like our kind of power.

tanka418

ManInAsia

I agree that it's a bit puzzling that we haven't picked up any alien life yet. But it could also well be because our scientific instruments resolution are too puny. Wait a couple of decades and we may have concrete proof that life is out there , as for intelligent space faring life..they should be common..but maybe they don't travel in obvious ways to us.

What I find puzzling is how Terrestrial Humans can be given all the evidence they could possibly need, and then reject it out of hand.

It is unfortunate that so many seem to require a kind of proof that is wholly unreasonable. Many even place greater importance on "proof" for ET than they require to take a man's life.

You all cry for ET to make contact. Yet when he does; you all cry "delusional!"

You sit in your little worlds and wonder "why" and I see damn few who have the strength to actually attempt to find answers.

If you want proof, you will not find it where you are looking; that should be obvious. Try looking in plain sight...Start with the Betty Hill Star Map.

Given all the probabilities involved; that single case should be all the "proof" you need. And there are actually others, though, not with the abundance of evidence. There is a lesser known case of extraterrestrial visitation from down-under. In this case DNA was recovered; and shown to not be Terrestrial.

The Alien


Easter Island carvings:

Char-Lee
The Alien

You are aware that this is a wholesale fake; right?

Every bit of the "Hype" surrounding this "object" is just that "Hype", much of either pure speculation, or outright lies (i.e. made up)

Easter Island carvings:

Cool photo, but what are these supposed to be? Do you have any authentication that they are in any way associated with Easter Island?

anyway your other post;

How has ET NOT hurt you over the past 8000 years?

This video will show some of what one group of ETs has done to the Earth.



This "Sirian / Orion Alliance" is about to undergo somewhat of an update; new information and technologies/tools for analysis, but, it will not really change much, and the impact upon Terrestrials will not change at all.

Over those 8000 years Earth, You have been harmed greatly, and you don't seem to "mind"; kind of like "Stockholm Syndrome".

If there was a way that I could bring charges against this one group in an Interstellar Court; I would.

reply to post by tanka418


www.antiquehelper.com...
Carvinhs from Easter island, there are many sources.

Lot of conflicting stuff on the little guy, so the scientists say not alien and yet they also say:

scientists have determined that the specimen is what remains of a living human being. Scientists did not believe they were looking at a human at first. Unlike humans, the skeleton featured nine ribs, a bulging head and a scaly body of dark
color.

So this creature was alive and eating and breathing for at least 6-8 years amazing.

www.isciencetimes.com...

tanka418
There is no lack of "aliens". It would appear that you have just about the right number based on probability. Perhaps you and Fermi should "look around".

You point me and Fermi in the right direction, and we'll look. Otherwise, at this point in time, there is absolutely NO EVIDENCE of life of any kind, intelligent or not, anyplace but Earth.

Blue Shift
You point me and Fermi in the right direction, and we'll look. Otherwise, at this point in time, there is absolutely NO EVIDENCE of life of any kind, intelligent or not, anyplace but Earth.

Best so far is this thread on the Hill-Fish star Map.

Though this may not be what you want. I'm still working on the "math" but this case has been overlooked for a long time, and may be a game changer.

EarthCitizen07
Strange. Most people will hint that you are crazy if you believe in aliens because they have never seen any ufo and/or alien. Something you cant see, touch, hear, does not exist. Cloaking technology is too far fetched for the average dumbed down person.

I used to be in the dumbed down category myself, but after reading lots of material on the internet, watching ufo documentaries on tv, buying and reading books, I changed my mind.

Its not easy to believe in ufos and aliens. It takes some effort!

it's weird because even if you have seen something out of this world, it's still hard to believe stories about others that have also seen ufos

tanka418

Blue Shift
You point me and Fermi in the right direction, and we'll look. Otherwise, at this point in time, there is absolutely NO EVIDENCE of life of any kind, intelligent or not, anyplace but Earth.

Best so far is this thread on the Hill-Fish star Map.

Though this may not be what you want. I'm still working on the "math" but this case has been overlooked for a long time, and may be a game changer.

Thanks. I'm still working on getting up the new thread. I found out that I missed a recently discovered planet around 54 Piscium so I am going back through SIMBAD for anything else I missed before I finish the video and post the new thread. Just in case you were wondering what was taking me so long...

Here's an interesting overlay I made. I was plotting all planets discovered via transits against the Hill-Fish star map.....


While plotting the exoplanets found by the transit method against the Hill star map an interesting pattern emerges:







Why it's the Kepler CCD.......





Looking the opposite direction of the Hill map (of course ) Oh noes it's a CONSPIRACY!!!



That was said in jest of course (though I probably risk someone now using this as the basis of a new "NASA conspiracy theory". )

FYI: The Transiting Exoplanet Satellite (TESS) will look at most of the stars on the Hill-Fish Map for transits starting sometime after its launch in 2017-18. Kepler stared at that dense region because the stars in that region are a good representation of the stars in our galaxy. Since Kepler's primary mission was to determine the frequency with which earthlike planets exist in our galaxy that makes very good sense.