The True Message Of Christ

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
This is exactly what he meant in my opinion. He was an agent of the authorities at the time who wanted to keep the people submissive and subservient. The best way to do that was to paint God as wrathful and the OT god was a perfect fit, so they merged Jesus' teachings with that of the OT god in order to keep people afraid and submissive to all authorities, including the governmental authorities.

I was going to mention this but I changed my mind. A few months ago I got talking to these Jehovah Witnesses (Long Story), anyway they started to mention a part of their theology, that I’d never heard of before. They stated that they “do not to get involved in politics, and that their only mission, is to bring in the Kingdom”…which was their exact words. Now I’ve never heard of any other Christian group, saying this, so this was completely new to me.


So I started to mention how Jesus had stood up for his ideals, among the political leaders of his day, and why shouldn’t they do the same etc. And their answer kind of boiled down to…”we’re only aloud, to preach the kingdom of God.”

I then decided to bring up an example. So I brought up how Ron Paul made a famous speech about how America should withdraw it’s troops from Iraq and other countries, because he felt that America was pushing their weight around too much, and had no business being out there etc…His speech was later hailed as being a “return to Christian ethics”, or words to that effect. My point to the Jehovah Witnesses, was that, here was a man, standing up for Christian ideals, in a political setting, so why couldn’t they do the same, and what would be so bad about doing so…?

And of course, I got the same basic rote robotic response of, “no we can’t get involved in politics, where only here to help bring in the Kingdom”. And they couldn’t even entertain, the possibility, of doing both. lol

I can’t remember their exact reasoning for this, but I think they said it was something to do with avoiding the ways of this world, or/and having to stick with the rules, provided in the Scriptures.

You bringing up that Romans 13 verse, kind of reminded of this, so I thought I would mention it. But as far as I’m aware, there are no other Christian denominations, which exclude involvement in politics.



- JC

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


I think the real issue here is being able to understand the difference between lust and love. I can think of two times in my own life when I confused lust with love. Lust can lead us to believe all kinds of myths about ourselves and others.

Here's a very interesting link, "Same-sex Lust Recovery in Sexaholics Anonymous (SA)", that might help to explain what leads to that lust to begin with.

www.samerecovery.com...

reply to post by Deetermined


Anti-gay site?

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Based on reading much of what's written on this website, this particular division of Sexaholics Anonymous are for those who engaged in same sex relationships but didn't always consider themselves to be homosexual. They identified with behaviors and thoughts that led them to engage in it anyway, even though they realized that it never led them to feel "love" from them.

reply to post by Deetermined


Are you implying that gay couples are unable to love therefore unable to express that love through sex like a straight couple? How can you claim to speak for an entire group of people when you have no idea what it's like to be gay?

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


I never said they weren't capable of loving. I think they have a problem with deciphering the difference between what's lust and what's true love. As for me speaking about gay issues without being one myself, do I need to remind you of the same thing? All I can tell you from the link I posted is that some of these people choose to dig deeper into the underlying reasons than do others. For some, being born that way isn't a good enough explanation, even for them.

reply to post by Deetermined


Do you believe gay people can have sex based on their love between each other? Do you think gay sex can be about true love in any way?

Do you believe there can be true love between a same sex couple? If so, why couldn't the sex they have be based on that true love as it is with a straight couple?

"Some" gay people do not represent the whole. You may as well say that "some" people who support gay marriage represent everyone else as well.

i think it's more passionate than trying to be good, or to be loving, in an attempt to meet some lofty and impossible standard, but more of a wreckless abandonment in the truth and to heck with the status-quo which wasn't workable anyway to begin with. A "fool for Christ".

To love large we have to be willing to become love itself, while also enjoying the opportunity to be happy human being. It takes courage and audacity to receive what God is offering us through the person of Jesus. It might appear ego-centric to the uninitiated, because it's absolute freedom, including full and free self expression as we are, so it's like a celebration of the self as love, which is an almost giddy, joyful, even hilarious experience, to both care with the utmost compassion deeply, while at the same time not caring as much about what the world thinks or what "normal" people might think of it, of you or of me.

Someone has to dance and sing and be happy for all the right reasons, even if it gets right in the grim faces of others, i mean like what can you do but risk persecution and even outrage in the hope of bringing a happy smile into the lives of others by being the light on the lampstand as you were meant to be. Then in seeing your light shine, they will know that what's done is done in God and they will be inclined to celebrate right along with you because we all know the truth and the love and the joy when we see it.

It's not a trying it's just who we are, it's "how we roll", and that's the kind of love which really goes somewhere over and above a man intentionally helping his neighbor just to try to be good and loving, as if to gain merit.

May Christ's joy, and humor, be yours.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


There is no group of gay people that represent the whole, as they all believe differently who they are, what they are and how they got to be the way they are.

Do I believe that two people of the same sex are truly capable of loving each other? Absolutely. But I also believe that the majority of the relationships are based on self delusions rather than true love.

reply to post by Deetermined


But you have no evidence for that. That's you attempting to find a middle ground for a belief you know is wrong, and a practice you feel has merit. This is you reaching a compromise between the two. "Oh, that's okay, but it'll never be as good as this over here."

You are not technically wrong, but you're comfortable with drawing assumptions that reflect the beliefs you currently hold. I'm sure you already know that Jesus never said anything about homosexuality, which means his true message does not condemn them.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Jesus never said anything about homosexuality, which means his true message does not condemn them.

Jesus answered the entire issue of relationships in three easy to read verses...

Matthew 19:4-6

4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,

5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?

6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

Jesus made a point of saying, "have ye not read"? He's referring to what God had to say about it in the Old Testament. Except for a handful of clarifications that Jesus made in Matthew, Jesus always told them to refer to what God said in the Old Testament for their answers.

reply to post by Deetermined


Well, I guess God didn't care about those people too much then. One more reason to give him the middle finger on my way to hell. I've engaged in more than one homosexual act and don't intend to apologize or repent. His loss. Seems like a bloody idiot anyway.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


We've all committed sin, no one is exempt from it. It's a corrupt, cold and cruel world we're living in and it wants to hold us back and keep us down, but we don't have to be if we don't want to be. The choice is ours to make.

reply to post by Deetermined


Even animals do it, so i don't think its wrong.

reply to post by Deetermined


What is your assumption that they are self-delusional based on? Obviously not from experience because you are not gay, so what makes you think they are self-delusional? You're generalizing based on a very narrow view and opinion, in other words you are stereotyping.

Gay people can have sex based on true love just like straight people can. You're trying to set limits on what love is capable of.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

It might appear ego-centric to the uninitiated, because it's absolute freedom, including full and free self expression as we are, so it's like a celebration of the self as love, which is an almost giddy, joyful, even hilarious experience, to both care with the utmost compassion deeply, while at the same time not caring as much about what the world thinks or what "normal" people

We are animals. Flesh and blood. What distinguishes us from other animals is the ability to invent an afterlife and a means to get there. That's it.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


I think all people who use excuses for sinning are self delusional. I truly believe there are psychological answers for why we commit the sins that we do and most people committing them will never care enough to try and dig for those answers because they either enjoy their sins too much or they're afraid of the answers they will find.

reply to post by Deetermined

I truly believe there are psychological answers for why we commit the sins that we do

Sure there is. We are animals. And no amount of imagination or disatisfaction will change the fact that we are subject to the same biology and instincts as other animals.

I don't think we're the ones who are afraid of the answers. There's a reason faith is so crucial in your religion. You are operating without the substance that makes facts...facts.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Yes, but we were given the ability to disseminate between right and wrong for a reason, unlike the animals.

reply to post by Deetermined


So its okay for the animals but not okay for us? Surely if animals do it, it may be considered natural? If it were unnatural, we would be the only ones doing it. But we are not. Curious case of double standards.