The True Message Of Christ

reply to post by Fraudfinder


What?! Just because I believe everyone should have equal rights, that means I am somehow gay? No I'm not gay, and I do not have homosexual urges ever, but what would it matter if I did?

Do you believe that love between two men or women is a sin and abomination? If so, you do not believe or know perfect love, because perfect love does not discriminate against itself.

3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Fraudfinder

 

What?! Just because I believe everyone should have equal rights, that means I am somehow gay? No I'm not gay, and I do not have homosexual urges ever, but what would it matter if I did?

Do you believe that love between two men or women is a sin and abomination? If so, you do not believe or know perfect love, because perfect love does not discriminate against itself.

You bring up homosexuality in a couple of you posts and I was just asking....

I believe in God's word. Stop lying and trying to convince people that homosexuality is acceptable because it is not acceptable. Stop twisting and changing God's word.

It is not up to you to pick and choose what words within the bible you want to use and what words you refuse to believe. First sign of a hypocrite!

reply to post by Fraudfinder


God is perfect love, you discriminating against a certain type of love is you alienating yourself from perfect love. Perfect love is unconditional, you setting conditions on it is you denying it freedom. Do you want to limit God's love? Because it seems that way.

reply to post by Fraudfinder

I believe in God's word. Stop lying and trying to convince people that homosexuality is acceptable because it is not acceptable. Stop twisting and changing God's word.

You won't make any friends with that kind of attitude. But then again, Christianity is about making RECRUITS, not friends, isn't it? You are demonstrating the opposite of humanity. Assimilate or terminate. Sometimes I wonder if that's all religion is about. Systematically reducing our humanity to ashes because it makes us feel weak.

I would rather be weak than be a monster.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


What I wonder is why people who claim to be Christians treate the Bible, the source of knowledge about Christ, as a buffet. The Bible is not a buffet. If one picks and chooses what will be authority in Scripture then that one has a completly skewed view of God.

The truths of scripture are intertwined from Genesis to Revelation. One cannot say "oh I follow the New Testament" or " I follow only the words of Jesus" or "I follow only the Gospels". The revelation of God to man is a whole, and must be taken as such. In the first 3 chapters of Genesis one can find themes such as, Creation, the fall, the nature of man, the nature of God, salvation, grace, judgment, the devil, and prophecy.

As one reads through the Bible these themes are expanded upon, explained, examined, and exposed. You quote a couple of verses and make that the whole of Scripture when it is not the whole of Scripture. Those text may encapsulate what God wants, but those text do not EXPLAIN what God means by love.

Taken out of context they could mean anything. That is the problem. A text out of context is a pretext, as my religion teachers would say. The Bible provides context for what happens within it.Jesus tells us what it means to love him, "If you love me keep my commandments" John 14:15.

Dont steal from each other, don't murder, don't lust, don't envy, don't dishonor your parents, and don't lie.

These are how you love your neighbor.

Don't worship false God's, don't make idols, don't take God's name in vain, And rest on HIS 7th Day Sabbath.

These are how you love God.

The content of love, the meaning of love is seen in the greater context of the Bible.

Then you make this completely ridiculous assertion “I wonder why he doesn't mention his death on the cross? Because that is a doctrine created by men who came after Jesus died who wanted to mentally enslave us.”

You are like the apostles, who while Jesus openly hinted at that he would died on the cross, didn’t get Him, or want to believe it.

Read Matthew 16, it is written for people who think Christ did not know what would happen to Him, and for people to see how completely dense everyone around Him was.
Nnotice this salient exchange. “From that time on Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, chief priests, and experts in the law, and be killed, and on the third day be raised. 22 So Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him: “God forbid, Lord! This must not happen to you!” 23 But he turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me, because you are not setting your mind on God’s interests, but on man’s.” 24 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “If anyone wants to become my follower, he must deny himself, take up his cross, and follow me. 25 For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. 26 For what does it benefit a person if he gains the whole world but forfeits his life? Or what can a person give in exchange for his life? 27 For the Son of Man will come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done. 28 I tell you the truth, there are some standing here who will not experience death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.””

Peter and satan stand rebuked. Satan wanted to dissuade Christ from making the ultimate sacrifice.
Jesus treated as sinners deserve, so that sinners can be treated as God deserves.

Read Isaiah 53, of which I will only quote a portion

“3 He was despised and rejected by people,
one who experienced pain and was acquainted with illness;
people hid their faces from him;
he was despised, and we considered him insignificant.
4 But he lifted up our illnesses,
he carried our pain;
even though we thought he was being punished,
attacked by God, and afflicted for something he had done.
5 He was wounded because of our rebellious deeds,
crushed because of our sins;
he endured punishment that made us well;
because of his wounds we have been healed.”

You say you want to talk about the true message of Christ, but you disparage the very means by which God’s love can be given to a sinful and rebellious race. Sorry but you have to do better than that.


The True message of Christ is found in Genesis to Revelation. Don't trivialize it by reducing it to a couple of scriptures that fit YOUR viewpoint.

reply to post by DanZek

Your view seems to contradict what was written.

John 13:35
By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

Romans 13:8
Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

Seems like a light yoke to me. Anything else becomes quite heavy.

reply to post by Ralphy


I disagree, the true message from Christ was "Fear". Bow before me and worship me or you will be damned to eternal damnation and torture muhahahahhahaha. There is nothing good about Christianity it's actually quite sinister and evil. Fear is the biggest motivation that exists for humans, no wonder Christianity uses it so much.

arpgme
reply to post by Ralphy

 

"Let your light shine before men so that they may see your good works" - Matthew 5:14-16

According to The New Testament....


God Is love and God Is light

God = love = light


You can not shine the light of love to others if you have darkness of hatred or even SELF-hatred in your heart.

What is the lesson?


Love yourself so that you can extend that love to others.

Precisely. We must love as we are loved, including ourselves or we have nothing to offer. And you if don't have the capacity to love anyone and everyone, including yourself, how can you love anyone else in particular? As Jesus pointed out it's easiest enough to love those who love us, but where the rubber really meats the road is when it comes to one's "enemy" or one who is "unlovable".

Jesus knew, he understood perfectly what is required to solve the problem and dilemma of the human condition.

The parable of the Good Samaritan is a nice test based on the one who was moved by compassion towards a complete stranger.

And to all the haters out there - how can you defend against the love of God?! LOL

All who hate, have at core some self-hatred.

Jesus' love isn't grave and serious though, it's charming, playful, even humorous. No one seems to "get" that element of Jesus' persona/character, and I can't understand why.

There is nothing worse than a serious Christian, imho. They are the ones to watch out for, because that wasn't Jesus' style. You will know them by their fruits - are they happy, joyful, loving? Or do they simply want to strike you down with the scripture by proving you wrong and themselves, right?

Woe to the spiritually dry Christian - stop preaching until you have something to offer from your heart of hearts other than "believe or go to hell". It's not helpful to the cause of Jesus Christ that you who are dead wish to raise people from the dead, it just doesn't work.

I have only one commandment. Love one another as I have loved you.

Doesn't sound unreasonable, no matter how unreasonably reasonable it may be.

Oh that Jesus - he's an all or nothing kind of dude, there are no half measures.

You've either got it or you don't, and are either alive or, deadish, but if you are dead and yet have the courage to reach out to Him, he will lift you up and give you a heart of flesh to replace your heart of stone.

I feel sorry for the cold fish, the one who cannot bring themselves to really love. Christ alone can save you. He is after all love itself and the missing ingredient or the x-factor. So if you do have a cold heart of stone, break it, and live again!

Luv,

NAM

reply to post by DanZek


You are wrong I'm afraid.

Matthew 22
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

This is Jesus' entire message in a nut shell, to love one another and to love God. All of the Law and Prophets (OT) hang on love, Jesus says so himself. You aren't ignoring that fact are you? What else is needed when Jesus says everything hangs on love?

Love was Jesus' message, to deny that is to deny Jesus and what he stood for. Christians do it every day, they do not understand his message because of the propaganda and dogma that surrounds his words.

reply to post by Fraudfinder

It is not up to you to pick and choose what words within the bible you want to use and what words you refuse to believe. First sign of a hypocrite!

Christians are some of the biggest hypocrites around. What you described is exactly what pastors and Christians do every single day, they pick and choose what words and verses fit their preconceived notions.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
I believe there are people in this world who want to keep us in the dark. I do not believe the Christian religion was based around mistaken interpretation, I believe it was deliberately misinterpreted by those in power then that misinterpretation turned into the "official" interpretation in order to hide the true meaning.

In my opinion Paul was an agent of those in power hired to deliberately change Jesus' message by mixing it with Jewish and OT tradition.

Sorry for the delayed response.

Well, I’ve actually found the key literal misinterpretation of Jesus words, which helped to form the “message of love into death worship.”, that you were talking about in your other post. I can even present it , in a coherent manner, so that it’s easy to see.

Now I guess it’s possible that Rome new the real truth, of those coded words Jesus spoke, and then made others believe in the literal interpretation of them; which would amount to a conspiracy.

But like I was saying on that other thread, Dr Bart Ehrman did many awesome lectures, on how the early RCC didn’t really seem to understand the Christian Gnostic texts. He seems to have pretty convincing case IMO.

Anyway, this is a win-win situation for me, whether they were mistakes by men, or deliberately turned into a literal interpretation by men, who secretly new what they really meant.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Rome was not dumb, they knew the truth, they just chose to hide it. They lied to us, they turned Jesus' message of freedom into a message of subservience in my opinion. The first passage of Romans 13 is a perfect example of how and why they did this.

Romans 13 is a tricky one…

In one sense he’s seems to be talking about why we shouldn’t take up arms against the authorities which I agree with, but where he goes wrong IMO, is by stating that God establish those authorities, and that they are Gods servants. Which is a pretty wide generalization to be making, and gives off the impression that one should never question authority.


- JC

reply to post by Joecroft

...but where he goes wrong IMO, is by stating that God establish those authorities, and that they are Gods servants. Which is a pretty wide generalization to be making, and gives off the impression that one should never question authority.

This is exactly what he meant in my opinion. He was an agent of the authorities at the time who wanted to keep the people submissive and subservient. The best way to do that was to paint God as wrathful and the OT god was a perfect fit, so they merged Jesus' teachings with that of the OT god in order to keep people afraid and submissive to all authorities, including the governmental authorities.

He made submissiveness primary and love secondary. Love sets you free, submissiveness puts shackles around your feet.

I think Romans 13 is the most damning evidence in the bible that shows it is not the true word of God, but that of men who want control and power. The bible back then (and even still to this day) was Rome's and TPTB's equivalent of the MSM today.

Luckily, they weren't able to remove all of the truth, if they had it would have never worked as effectively as it has. All good lies have a foundation of truth, the bible is no different in my opinion.

The true message of Christ, beyond playing THE greatest practical joke on human (and other?) powers and principalities and general wickedness, ignorance and stupidity, on behalf of God as the first father of creation and living Spirit of Truth and Life and what's REAL, to uphold and preserve what is right and good for the sake of what's right and good (not an easy thing to pull off..), is simply

I love you as I am loved.

To which I would like to say, on behalf of myself and us all - I love you TOO!


What the naysayers and the detractors fail to recognize however regarding all things Jesus, is that the whole thing was and is based in sound reason, and logic, by examining the world both without in regards to the divine order, and within in search of what is divine, what is good, true, virtuous, which in the final analysis just so happens to be made up of the very same essence or substance of the love by which the creator created.. this (looking around and within). God never left, in other words, just waited patiently, very patiently, to become a man, by design and by anticipation from the very origin of creation and in accordance with that same love between the beloved and beloved other by which a shared mutual experience might be possible, and that's the very same frame of reference that we find ourselves in, right now. Jesus and the Spirit of the Living God never went away, never died, and when push comes to shove in the final analysis at the end of the day, Jesus Christ as the love of God made known and made manifest, is also the very VERY best part of who and what we really are as created beings intrinsic to the very heart of things, included, even reintegrated and accepted as we are in spite of ourselves or as "chosen" ones, who by virtue of Christ's Great Work or Magnum Opus while we are not taken out of the world, at the most fundamental level we are not "of" it, even while we are in it. and while this isn't our final home, since it passes away in the fullness of cosmic time and history, it is the "bride to be" just waiting for that home to come to us where we are yet also with Christ where he is, together. It's not something that we ought to be waiting for only after we DIE, but something that we would be well served to start moving into while still on the way.

It's entirely reasonable, every bit of it, no matter how ah unreasonably reasonable it may be, and it only makes perfect rational sense that when dealing with the human being one would have to go rather far afield to provide a return path back to God, to the incorruptible center and source, yet without losing the very best part of what makes a person, a person, their unique individuality, which Christianity, in truth, celebrates, even to the nth degree making of the little I am an integral part even as a work in progress of the Great I Am, or to use an analogy, calling you to move up table before all the invited guests to sit nearer to the loving one, who is the bridegroom himself, at the door, while remaining a perfect gentlemen.

We as Christians have largely dropped the ball however in terms of the way and the manner in which the invitation is extended and for that, well there are no words for that kind of regret over something so precious that there are also no words to convey it's value, or even our own when included in it's domain in the absolutely forgiveness of the Love of God in the person of Jesus Christ, our brother, who also pulled a fast one on the PTB at all levels, to hold in reserve for us also, the last laugh when this history is over - way to go Jesus - THANK YOU!

I love you too!

(and how can you NOT?)

What defense is there against the love of God?!

Oh God you are SO, FUNNY!

reply to post by NewAgeMan


I may not agree with you, but your positivity and spirit are really something to behold.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


So ah maybe it's a good thing I had a ..smoke, before making that post? LOL

I just let the spirit flow and speak through me, and I have really good left/right brain integration, having used various brainwave entrainment methodologies for the past few years, so with everything combined, along with a re-examination of the historical Jesus, and suddenly for me it's as if he is also there, as the me that I'm becoming. Oh it was there, as a seed, like it is in all of us, but finding Jesus is like getting everything that seed needs to flourish, or as needed to burst forth from the ground as the Rhizome that never died, and was just waiting to be activated, like a seed thrown on rich soil, that's me.

But in the final analysis that it ends in a great loving joke is just too much to take people have no idea who and what they are dealing with in Jesus. Even Christians don't seem to know the first thing about him. They don't know he's funny for example, nor the true nature of his "practical joke" at the expense of the devil within us all, they don't understand.

So someone by God has to speak for him, not an easy thing to try on, so you'll have to forgive me if I myself am not the most highly disciplined and perfect example of a "good Christian" LOL! (that was Jesus, laughing through me).

Because our joy completes itself over and over again in him with his joy in us, the compulsion to "sin" or engage in hurtful nonsense dissipates, and then we might even eventually come to start trusting "God" even when God is something that we can never fully understand, and if there is a God wouldn't he too want to play and be included? so he renders this great practical joke of all ages, and what do we do with it?

Please don't hold Jesus accountable for "Churchianity" because it's another case where you have to say "forgive them father for they did not know what they were doing"

We come to know Christ's joy in the resurrected life when we stop crucifying him, even in our own selves.

Even you AI have shed a certain type of tear I know, you know regret, but do you also know an absolute triumph when you see it?

You can't hate Jesus - that doesn't make any sense it's absurd.

Luv,

NAM

The funny thing is, that we're all on this "hero's journey", all playing a role in something that we hope at least might turn out ok after everything we've been through, and we're all looking for Jesus, for his resurrection principal, for the "fresh start" the "true life" that by it's very nature is "untouchable", incorruptible, timeless, spaceless, yet never without action and form where form follows function, so it's not ephemeral but only practical.

What we Christians are saying is that this "Jesus", as the very person of God, can be found and is located in time and history, and what I'm saying is that when one goes looking for him in the gospels and but merely touches the outer fringe of his cloak, however tentatively, He turns and you fall in love with him, and then you come to realize that it's hard to say precisely where you begin and end in him, but there's no loss of the integrity of the unique personal self, to the contrary - because there is no amount of Jesus capable of ruining a human personality (oh my that's funny too!).

Most of Christendom places Jesus at a distance "on high" set apart, like some sort of idol of worship and king on a throne, beneath which they grovel - but that's not Jesus, who comes to us, running the very moment we seek him out, and he brings the father by extension, and then we're um like royally screwed in the very best possible way, since there are no lengths to which his love is not prepared to go to retrieve us and to bring us back home, but again not just when we DIE, since it's a shared koinonia that can only be experienced through the unfolding present moment in who's context "death" has already lost its sting so to speak. That's what he wanted us to do, was to simply complete his circle of joy, that's our "job" and the only thing he left us to do, and that's beautiful and funny, and very practical, particularly when dealing in matters of human ignorance, absurdity and folly. He knew our limitations, intimately.

So I'd like to be the first to say then

Thank you Jesus! - I "get it"!


And who cares if it makes me cry first tears of sorrow and regret and then of joy and even absolute hilarity at the sheer magnificence of it's absolute genius.

Luv,

NAM aka Bob
Your brother, in Jesus Christ, our common Lord and Savior, and, Truth Friend. Amen.

And as to "sin" and should and shouldn't I think it's as if Jesus tells a type of sad but funny joke along the lines of..

If you must sin, sin with courage and hope and trust in me, that my love will overcome it, and transcend it.

It gives us the kind of confidence, not to sin, but to not even bother sinning, while allowing us the freedom to be "educated" without condemnation, making what might have been a compulsion to sin, the power to freely choose wherein that same sin does become a type of joke as the absurdity that it is in the light of the truth which is the love of God.

"I came so that you might have life even to the full AND to overlowing!"

"And as my father hath first sent me even so send I, you."

There is nothing fundamentally wrong with Jesus or Christianity, it's just dumb people who dropped the ball and got caught up in the dogma and the doctrine and lost the spirit of Jesus himself in the process, lost his charm, his humor, his gentleloving kindness, his reason, his logic, and his playfulness. We never even knew him.

So no worries because the "joke" when there is one to be had is also on us Christians, maybe even moreso than the "unbeliever", but we do still however get to the be the first to laugh at it.. hopefully.

Imagine LOSING one's sense of humor in Christ - oh dear GOD!

Woe to the bland-faced or bitter angry "Christian" of all things..

You don't hate us for believing in Jesus you see, so it's not his fault. You hate us and Christianity, many of you because of our failure to deliver up even the smallest amount of authentic Jesus in the world, and I don't blame you, but it's not a valid repudiation of Jesus the man or of his Great Work of all Ages, it's just a tragedy of the very worst kind on the failure of his followers to really make him and his intention known. And those disciples, his very students didn't fair much better at understanding him, so we can be forgiven too surely, we who no not actually see but can only deduce and infer. But because we cannot see directly, according to Jesus we are doubly blessed for recognizing his character and reasoning and sympathizing with him and in the process believing in him and his truth of life.

It's a JOY!

If you don't know that joy, you're not a Christian, yet, and there might be a dark night of the soul awaiting you, one way or another (best to get it over with early), so that when you do, your joy will be complete, in him as the salvation and the release from the snare or dawning of the new dawn when the nightmare is over. It's funny I tell you, every time, or joyful or beautiful or magnificent, awesome whatever word you want to use to proclaim it and exclaim it like a SHOUT from a rooftop for all the right reasons no matter how it might look..!

Sorry for hijacking the thread couldn't help it.

Luv,

NAM

reply to post by Ralphy


Man Ralphy! You dunno how right you are!!!!

No sarcasm intended!

AfterInfinity
reply to post by Fraudfinder

 

I believe in God's word. Stop lying and trying to convince people that homosexuality is acceptable because it is not acceptable. Stop twisting and changing God's word.

You won't make any friends with that kind of attitude. But then again, Christianity is about making RECRUITS, not friends, isn't it? You are demonstrating the opposite of humanity. Assimilate or terminate. Sometimes I wonder if that's all religion is about. Systematically reducing our humanity to ashes because it makes us feel weak.

I would rather be weak than be a monster.

edit on 1-11-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

What does this have to do with my posts?

Did God or did he not say the things in my post about homosexuality?

You still did not answer my question if you are a Wiccan?

it is easy to utter the words "i love you", but to actually show it through the choices we make at the most critical moments is another thing altogether.

loving another unconditionally in this world is probably not impossible but is very very close to impossible. only a few people can do it, maybe 5-10 people among the entire population of earth. haha. try finding love within yourself for an enemy that has hurt you or utterly destroyed you in any ways/means possible that you are left as a slave to that enemy for all times... the only way you'll find that love is when you stop caring about this world.. which is in danger of becoming apathetic.

jesus' teachings have very high requirements to actually claim that you "know" his teachings. he himself attributed to those requirements in a couple of verses in the bible.