Under Seal: Document Expert Identifies Obama Birth Certificate Forger; Says Media Executives Invol

reply to post by hellobruce


Snopes is a proven liberal site that lies whenever it pleases them. How did lil barry get into that school in Indonesia unless he was a citizen?

As a matter of fact I protested Clinton and Bush, so don't go throwing out comments directed at me regarding what I did or did not say about Bush, but just so you know, HE ISN"T THE PRESIDENT NOW!

I swear, barry could molest and rape a five year old white girl on the front lawn of the White house and you all who love him would say she attacked him...... or "It's bush's fault!"

Just how do you explain :

Obama Occidental classmate confirmed, Obama scholarship, Obama went by Barry, Bill Snider classmate, Obama having too much fun, Citizen Wells exclusive Obama Occidental classmate confirmed, Obama scholarship, Obama went by Barry, Bill Snider classmate, Obama having too much fun, Citizen Wells exclusive

“Why has Obama, since taking the White House, used Justice Department Attorneys, at taxpayer expense, to avoid presenting a legitimate birth certificate and college records?”…Citizen Wells

“Everyone called him Barry,”…Bill Snider, Obama Occidental classmate

“We were both scholarship students,”Bill Snider, Obama Occidental classmate

source

At the time Barry was in school in Indonesia you HAD to be a citizen, so when did he re-establish his citizenship? "You can't be President if you were a foreign exchange student in 1983"... listen to this short video. There is proof he was a citizen of Indonesia.



What's Barry doing with a Connecticut Social Security number? This guy has so many red flags about his past and background and his fans don't care because they love Marxism.

As for him being elected twice, you do realize we haven't had fair elections in a long time. Vote fraud is rampant, and no wonder Jimmy Carter loves this guy, he has finally been replaced as the worst President in History.

UnifiedSerenity

Snopes is a proven liberal site that lies whenever it pleases them

Of course you have proof of that claim? Unless......

How did lil barry get into that school in Indonesia unless he was a citizen?

What makes you claim he had to be a Indonesian citizen to get into that school? Source for your claim?

At the time Barry was in school in Indonesia you HAD to be a citizen,

Please post a official Indonesian source for that silly claim....

www.obamaconspiracy.org...
badfiction.typepad.com...

What's Barry doing with a Connecticut Social Security number?

Why do you think SSN's are location based?
www.ssa.gov...

Note: One should not make too much of the "geographical code." It is not meant to be any kind of useable geographical information. The numbering scheme was designed in 1936 (before computers) to make it easier for SSA to store the applications in our files in Baltimore since the files were organized by regions as well as alphabetically. It was really just a bookkeeping device for our own internal use and was never intended to be anything more than that.

So all you can post is the much debunked birther lies, with no facts at all!

reply to post by UnifiedSerenity

“Why has Obama, since taking the White House, used Justice Department Attorneys, at taxpayer expense, to avoid presenting a legitimate birth certificate and college records?”…Citizen Wells

It seems the birther narrative is changing. I thought he was paying millions to Perkins-Coie to defend him.

In regards to Indonesia there is no proof that Obama was ever an Indonesian citizen. However, even if he was that doesn't revoke his natural born citizen status. Once again for a person to renounce their citizenship they must appear before a US consulate or ambassador in another country and not only fill out numerous documents but also convince them that they are renouncing their citizenship of their own free will. In the case of minors they must also demonstrate that they understand what they are doing when they are renouncing their citizenship. Even then minors can have their citizenship reinstated as long as they petition to do so before the age of 18 and a half.

So when you provide the documents where Obama renounced his citizenship, not to mention the ambassador or consulate who interviewed him, then I will start looking for the documents where he had his citizenship reinstated upon his return to the US.

reply to post by Stormdancer777

Thanks for the information and link!
Interesting read.
I have not read through all the comments on this thread, yet...but have been reading through the document you linked to.
Seems the person making these allegations has plenty of expertise in arenas appropriate to such an investigation.
The frustrating part is that he could not keep his emotions in check when composing his statements.
It will be difficult for those considering his claims of proof...to get past his apparent motivation that erupts through every page I've read, thus far.
Will attempt to get through the rest of it tonight or tomorrow, and rejoin the fray.
Thanks Again!!

reply to post by bjax9er

I agree but we rely on our media to source information. Without information a society is totally open to be preyed upon by their government. If they are playing active parts in Orchestrating that fraud those implications are HUGE.

Yes he's prez. get over it. but what does our future hold as a country when our media now knows it can do more then spin, Lie, and make believe issues don't exist. Now they can be the people with the Ultimate Power who decides what it feels it wants. There are some serious Power players in the upper areas of Media corporation. They might sell us out worse next time. If that's possible

WanDash
Seems the person making these allegations has plenty of expertise in arenas appropriate to such an investigation.

Very wrong actually.... what makes you think that?

I'm just dropping by to add a little here, but I have a link which may be relevent. It's called the "Birther Scorecard" and documents (with links to original docs in many, if not most cases) the 207 cases brought in U.S. Courtrooms against Obama in relation to this issue.

They've lost 201 of them. At least as of April of 2013. This is a bit dated, and perhaps there is a more current one?

Birther Scorecard

Over 25 of those cases were at the Supreme Court level. (not everything there is a super media case to cover)

I suppose this will add another to the string. So far, 100% perfect score. All losses. Some with prejudice, too. The only ones not outright dismissals or losses were those still pending in April. Hence...the interest if anyone has a more updated version of it. It's ....loooooong odds though. Some people say I tilt at windmills. Heck, I've got nothing on the people pursuing this one for the last 5-6 years. If 200 losses in court doesn't discourage? I guess nothing ever will.

reply to post by hellobruce


Here's why he is an Indonesian citizen, as Lolo Soetoro was Muslim, then in Indonesia, he was under Adat Law, designed for Islam.

Indonesia Laws

The fact that Barack Jr. became Soetoro means a formal adoption under Adat law took place, thereby making him an Indonesian citizen.

Indonesia Adat Laws

Under Adat law, because Soetoro adopted Barack Jr. it made him a citizen of Indonesia. As Adat Law is applicable in Indonesia, even though some locales may vary according to cultural traditions, Adat is still recognized as the law.

Indonesian Law No. 62 of 1958

Article 2. (1)A foreign child of less than 5 years age who is adopted by a citizen of the Republic of Indonesia acquires the citizenship of the Republic of Indonesia, if such an adoption is declared legal by the Pengadilan Negeri at the residence of the person adopting the child. (2)Said declaration of legality by the Pengadilan Negeri shall be requested by the person adopting the child within 1 year after such an adoption or within 1 year after enforcement of this law.

And her citizenship in Indonesia is this

Article 7. (1)A foreign woman married to a citizen of the Republic of Indonesia, acquires the citizenship of the Republic of Indonesia, if and when she makes a statement as to that effect within 1 year after contracting said marriage, except in case when she acquires the citizenship of the Republic of Indonesia she possesses still another nationality, in which case the statement may not be made.

And this means..

Article 13 (2)The citizenship of the Republic of Indonesia acquired by a mother also applies to her children who have no legal family relationship with the father, who have not reached the age of 18 and are not married yet after they have resided and are in Indonesia. If said citizenship of the Republic of Indonesia is acquired with the naturalization by a mother who has become a widow because of the decease of her husband, the children who have a legal family relationship with said husband, who have not reached the age of 18 and are not married yet also acquire the citizenship of the Republic of Indonesia after they reside and are in Indonesia. Statements as to their residence and being in Indonesia are not valid for children who because their mother has acquired the citizenship of the Republic of Indonesia become stateless.

Article 20. Whoever is no citizen of the Republic of Indonesia is an alien.

I would have to assume that he was an Indonesian citizen, if he was adopted under Adat law. And she married an Indonesian citizen, thereby making Barry an Indonesian citizen. But he was sent back to Hawaii, and only when he reached the age of 18 could he declare intent of renouncing Indonesian citizenship. He would then have to go through the American process of becoming a citizen.

Because his mother's citizenship in Indonesia was formed at her marriage to Lolo Soetoro, the law states that her child gained Indonesian citizenship. Yes, he legally was an Indonesian citizen.

Is there any record of his intention to declare found in Hawaii? The only way he could become a US citizen was through his marriage to Michelle, if he chose to denounce Indonesian citizenship. By denouncing, he would have to go to court to achieve this, so if he did, there then must be some legal document to that effect. Is there a legal document?

hellobruce

WanDash
Seems the person making these allegations has plenty of expertise in arenas appropriate to such an investigation.

Very wrong actually.... what makes you think that?

To make such a claim ("very wrong") would suggest that you know what arenas of expertise are required to conduct such an investigation.
PROVE (or - at least, give some substance to) your statement...and I will enjoin a discussion with you on the topic.

WarminIndy
The fact that Barack Jr. became Soetoro means a formal adoption under Adat law took place, thereby making him an Indonesian citizen.

Please show these "adoption papers"

Please show where Obama renounced his US citizenship.

And her citizenship in Indonesia is this

She was NOT a Indonesian citizen when Obama was born in Hawaii - so why do you think his mothers later citizenship means anything?

I would have to assume that he was an Indonesian citizen, if he was adopted under Adat law.

There is zero proof that Obama was adopted, zero proof Obama renounced his US citizenship....

He would then have to go through the American process of becoming a citizen.

if he never renounced his US citizenship he was already a natural born US citizen...

Yes, he legally was an Indonesian citizen.

If true that does not preclude him also being a US citizen!

Is there any record of his intention to declare found in Hawaii?

Is there any record Obama renounced his S citizenship? As he did not, why do you think there would be evidence he tried to get US citizenship in Hawaii?

The only way he could become a US citizen was through his marriage to Michelle, if he chose to denounce Indonesian citizenship.

If he as a US citizen also why would he have to renounce his "Indonesian Citizenship"? The constitution does not preclude a dual citizen becoming US President....

By denouncing, he would have to go to court to achieve this, so if he did, there then must be some legal document to that effect. Is there a legal document?

First of all you would have to show the legal document where Obama renounced his US citizenship - but of course there is no such document!

reply to post by hellobruce


Did you even read the articles in the OFFICIAL Indonesian law?

Upon her marriage to an Indonesian citizen, Barack also became a citizen. Did you not read that?

I did not give any link from a blog, I gave you three links from what are credible sources...Emory University, NMHLIB and the law from Indonesia itself.

Are you challenging Indonesian law?

Under Adat law, which you probably didn't read, it does not require paperwork. Imagine that. If you had followed the link, you would have seen it.

I didn't give you a blog link, I didn't give you a birther link, I gave credible sources. Take it as you will, the law of Indonesia provides that upon her marriage to an Indonesian citizen, it made her child one as well. And under Adat law, he was adopted.

So can you then provide the links to the paperwork of his formal declaration of intent to become a US citizen? That, in the United States, would require going to court. We are not under Adat law here, so therefore, he was an Indonesian citizen.

reply to post by WarminIndy


Once again, even if he was an Indonesian citizen that does not revoke his natural born citizenship. As I stated above for anyone to renounce their citizenship they must appear before a US ambassador or consulate on foreign land and express their desire. They must then fill out numerous documents and also undergo interviews to ensure they are doing this of their own free will. For minors, they must also adequately demonstrate that they understand what they are doing. Then, a few months down the line the former US citizen will receive a document that confirms they are no longer a US citizen.

If Obama underwent the process to renounce his citizenship it would create a large paper trail as well as a number of witnesses. Not to mention that for him to return to the United States he would need a Indonesian passport which would create even more of a paper trail. Yet birthers cannot produce any of these documents or witnesses and yet claim a lack of documents indicating he regained his citizenship as proof of him being illegitimate. Absolutely ridiculous. Just admit it. You're not interested in the truth or reality. You just dislike Obama and will grasp at any straw no matter how imaginary it is just so you can hold on to the hope that he will be removed from office.

reply to post by WarminIndy

WarminIndy

DrEugeneFixer

WarminIndy
reply to post by hellobruce

 

If Muslim law has no bearing on US law regarding wives, then just ask Betty Mahmoody who became a citizen of Iran when she married her Iranian husband. The American Consulate in Iran stated that she was now Iranian.

Not likely, considering that there hasn't been any US Embassy or Consulate in Iran since 1979.

This was just before the Iranian Revolution.

Nope, it wasn't. it happened in the mid 80's. Did you just make that up?

www2.starexponent.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">web.archive.org...://www2.starexponent.com/lifestyles/2008/nov/02/not_afraid_of_change-ar-334946/

en.wikipedia.org...

www.google.com... &espv=210&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8

The rest of your post is entirely irrelevant. I've seen no evidence That Obama's mother would've had to renounce her US citizenship. You need to cite US law to make any case on this at all, not foreign law, which never supercedes US law in the US.

WanDash
To make such a claim very wrong would suggest that you know what arenas of expertise are required to conduct such an investigation.
PROVE or - at least, give some substance to your statement...and I will enjoin a discussion with you on the topic.

The Court finds the testimony of the witnesses, as well as the exhibits tendered, to be of little, if any, probative value, and thus wholly insufficient to support Plaintiffs’ allegations. Ms. Taitz attempted to solicit expert testimony from several of the witnesses without qualifying or tendering the witnesses as experts. . . . For example, two of Plaintiffs’ witnesses testified that Mr. Obama’s birth certificate was forged, but neither witness was properly qualified or tendered as an expert in birth records, forged documents or document manipulation........
None of the testifying witnesses provided persuasive testimony.

www.scribd.com...

So Vogt is not a expert at all....

reply to post by WarminIndy


You just don't get it. Becoming naturalized in another country does not remove a person's US citizenship. The only way that it can is if the person becoming naturalized is doing so with the express purpose of also renouncing their US citizenship. I've already provided links to and quotes from the pertinent sections of the USC. Of course you will probably ignore it once again because it does not fit in with your fantasy.

WarminIndy
Upon her marriage to an Indonesian citizen, Barack also became a citizen. Did you not read that?

So what? As I said, Obama was still a US citizen - and there is no bar to a dual citizen becoming president.

Are you challenging Indonesian law?

No, but you seem to be challenging US law....

So can you then provide the links to the paperwork of his formal declaration of intent to become a US citizen?

Why would he do that? His US citizenship was never revoked - it appears you have never heard of, and do not know what dual citizenship is! How about you providing links to the paperwork where Obama renounced his US citizenship...

That, in the United States, would require going to court. We are not under Adat law here, so therefore, he was an Indonesian citizen.

Also a US citizen, so he did not have to go to any court! As the US is not under Adat law, he remained a US citizen....

hellobruce
...

The Court finds the testimony of the witnesses, as well as the exhibits tendered, to be of little, if any, probative value, and thus wholly insufficient to support Plaintiffs’ allegations. Ms. Taitz...

...
So Vogt is not a expert at all....

Thanks for the link to an earlier case.
Was "Vogt" a party to this case?
It really doesn't matter if he was, or was not, to me...as I am well familiar with various absurdities regarding courts accepting or disallowing the credentials of "experts" and their testimony.
Please be a little more specific.
If this is how you "substantiate" your claims (which, by the way, appears to be the norm, after reading through your posts in this thread) then, I can see we will/can have no meaningful discussion. And - add a bit to that ---- I don't think you care for any meaningful discussion. The entirety of your contribution to this thread has failed to address the specific allegations.
No reason to respond to this...unless you actually care to discuss......the allegations.

xuenchen

Like who the real parents might be.

While I think there is plenty of controversy surrounding B.O's citizenship, I don't think the faking or forging of his BC is to hide that he was born elsewhere other than America. I think it's exactly what is in your quote. It's to hide who his real father is.

Other than being foreign born it's the only other reason I can think of for faking the COLB.

Either way it'll never matter. The ones that put him where he is will make sure the truth never sees the light of day unless they want it to.

As an afterthought.. I heard a radio talk show host( sorry don't recall his name) talking about Obama's family and whoever it was in Hawaii that said the original COLB is there go way back...as in really close friends way back. Have you or anyone else heard of this?

WanDash
Was "Vogt" a party to this case?

Try actually reading the judgement....

It really doesn't matter if he was, or was not, to me

You have not bothered to read this thread, you have not even botherd to read the judgement.... so why does it not surprise me you do not care that he is not a expert, he is trying to push much debunked birther nonsense, so that is good enough for you!

Please be a little more specific.

You claimed he had "has plenty of expertise in arenas appropriate to such an investigation", I have shown he had no such expertise.... so how much more specific do you want?

It appears you do not want to discuss anything, just attack a posted!