NASA Scientists to Test Warp Drive Theory

reply to post by RP2SticksOfDynamite


Not all space shuttles were retired, only the out of date and aging civil (NASA) space shuttles but the US military has several alternative launch method's including unmanned shuttles and possibly a railgun based orbital projector that was built to provide low signature orbital insertion by projecting the package out of the earth orbit before it's rockets were used to position it (not a practical alternative for humans though due to extreme Gforce).

reply to post by JadeStar


Compress space in front, expand it behind. Sounds simple, and truly is; only requires movement. The Doppler effect does just that to the medium an object is moving through; the greater the speed the more pronounced the effect is (as well as the degree of shift to other properties of the object).

But the warping of space is one of the few methods available to Terrestrials for space propulsion. Though the Alcubierre drive seems a bit of a stretch to me. I had heard at one tie that "exotic" energy would be required. I am happy to see that ay not be the case. But it does seem an awful lot of work when another solution is available.

Over the last decade another drive "type" has been discovered, and much of the early science is already done. This drive could be called a "Heim-Lorentz Drive".

You can find several papers on this at: European Space Agency

This is very interesting science in that all of the technology already exists, and while I don't think this will yield a space drive quite like the Alcubierre drive, this is available NOW, and could conceivably provide all that is needed for operations within 10 = 20 light years.

Anyone up for a trip to Alpha Centauri? Only take about 5 years to get there (and that would also be 5 years on Earth). Time dilation can be offset by a combination of Doppler and "inertial frame dragging", but this may only happen at speeds near that of light.

reply to post by LABTECH767


Yes the military, but they have toys that are a bit more advanced than the "Shuttle" or indeed, even railguns.

Going back to my earlier post; the Heim-Lorentz drive may have already been implemented... and of course by the military...




Ever wonder just how they can make a trillion dollars just vanish?

LABTECH767
reply to post by JadeStar

 

This is a really good thing that they are seeking a method to test the practical application of this theory, According to observations made on the relative strength of gravitation compared to the strength of electromagnetic spectrum energy's it appears to be millions of times weaker and this gave some quantum physicists the idea that maybe it comes from outside (let's say below and call it subspace membrane) our universal membrance (this is were the universe is considered according to another theory called membrane theory (which has spun off/influenced the holographic universe theory and several others) is considered to be a membrain floating around it superspace with other membranes and they sometimes collide creating structures such as our universe), not if this is actually true then there may be a small hurdle even if the drive can be proven by creating the spacial warp effect and that is that the compression of time space behind the craft would have a higher gravitational constant and the streched time space in front would have a lower gravitational constant that may well be equal in resistive force to the potential displacement of the vessel and therefore possible cancell it out but let's hope they have a work around for this.
S+F

Just noticed my argument my argument was completely wrong (I was bleary eyed and had not long gotten up out of bed - my excuse) as if it compresses space time in front and expand's it behind then according to the same argument the inherent gravity in space time would work in it's favour and so there is nothing for the NASA scientists to work around if they can actually do it.
SORRY for being a bit thick like a plank, and not in the max plank fashion.

Josephus
reply to post by ThePeaceMaker

 

well on Star Trek they have energy shields around the ship I think. If I understand the drive correctly this problem wouldn't be a concern as the bubble is the object moving at superluminal speeds. Apparently survivability within the bubble is a concern because of Hawking radiation. Also some argue that the pilots within the ship would have no ability to steer or stop.

there are some major difficulties with the practicality of the theory I think. Even if they find the exotic matter necessary the amount needed to enclose a large ship is unattainable.

edit on 10/28/2013 by Josephus because: (no reason given)

Why can't you steer. If you fold a piece of paper in half you have two points where our worm hole or faster than light travel come together. But, you can still slide the two pages moving the two points. Why do you think we would not be able to (slide) or move these points slightly. We are talking two different things, worm holes and traveling faster than the speed of light.

I personally don't think we can travel faster than light, once we do I think we are really just going to be warping or on your way to folding space and time. But hey that math and science way above me lol.

The Bot

reply to post by ThePeaceMaker

Perhaps the process creates it's own reality - unencumbered by matter in any other reality.

reply to post by JadeStar

I seem to remember that another scientist had done some more calculations and figured out that the energy requirements were nowhere near as great as first thought. That said being able to create the amount of exotic matter needed is still way beyond us.

I suspect that warping space/time is probably a pre-requisite to being able to fold space/time. Two very different things to accomplish the same thing.


It's not hard to imagine a Type I Civilization being able to warp space/time but only a Type II or III would be able to fold space/time.

Blowback

AthlonSavage
so when are they testing this?

the public roll out should take place 1000 years from now ,if we make it that long,,in the meantime your taxes must be raised to pay for it..

1000 years, i knew it. That is precisely when i plan on reincarnating, to captain that ship and serve as the first Governor of the new colony, like Ender Wiggin in "Speaker for the Dead", and for Democracy and the first election, i promise that it won't be a rigged, two party, system, and the counting of the vote will be beyond the possibility of corruption. No Diebold voting machines in the new world.

We cannot of course make that Trek unless there is no more war and no starving people here on Earth, and it will not be a Bush/Cheney style invasion either. No way no how. Besides, we will almost certainly be under escort the whole way as we pass through the Sol System quarantine.

Edit to add: As the first governor, i would not be running in the first democratic election, and would retire gracefully to assume a role as a standup comedian, since our prior collective experience on Earth is sure to provide enough comedic material to last for generations.

Best Regards,

NAM aka Bob

P.S. No i'm not crazy, and are we not already between lives even now..?

reply to post by ThePeaceMaker


According to physicists, there will be a gravity 'wave' in front of the ship that'll protect it from small meteorites and stuff. Planets and big things will still be a problem, haha.

ThePeaceMaker
One thing I've always thought when watching Star Trek and they go into warp .. When travelling so fast through space that has asteroids planets stars suns meteor/ asteroid fields .. When travelling so fast what's going to stop you slamming into one of these

Sensors Captain..and a big deflector dish for the little bits and pieces.

ThePeaceMaker
One thing I've always thought when watching Star Trek and they go into warp .. When travelling so fast through space that has asteroids planets stars suns meteor/ asteroid fields .. When travelling so fast what's going to stop you slamming into one of these

I'm more curious why all the aliens speak English and look like humans with bad costumes.

reply to post by ZetaRediculian


Not in the original series, ever remember the glowing styrofoam alien for instance.

For me the real danger is ensuring that this warp is produced far enough away so that the ripples in time space it will cause will not disrupt nearby matter and at that point I see several weaponisation possabillity's such as a field warp bomb that would ripple time space in an enemy target location and cause matter to dissipate or lose cohesion.
Well it had to be said as that doese remain a possabillity and some grubby two synapse general somewere will think he has a viable replacement without the radiation for an atomic bomb only he has just gotten his hands on a world killer bomb.

JadeStar
Who needs a space shuttle anyway?

Move over Star Trek! According to state-of-the art theory, a warp drive could cut the travel time between stars from tens of thousands of years to weeks or months. Harold G. White, a physicist and advanced propulsion engineer at NASA and other NASA engineers are trying to determine whether faster-than-light travel — warp drive — might someday be possible. The team has attempting to slightly warp the trajectory of a photon, changing the distance it travels in a certain area, and then observing the change with a device called an interferometer.

“Space has been expanding since the Big Bang 13.7 billion years ago,” said Dr. White, 43, who runs the research project told the New York Times. “And we know that when you look at some of the cosmology models, there were early periods of the universe where there was explosive inflation, where two points would’ve went receding away from each other at very rapid speeds. Nature can do it,” he added. “So the question is, can we do it?”

In 1994, a Mexican physicist, Miguel Alcubierre, theorized that faster-than-light speeds were possible in a way that did not contradict Einstein by harnessing the expansion and contraction of space itself. Under Dr. Alcubierre’s hypothesis, a ship still couldn’t exceed light speed in a local region of space. But a theoretical propulsion system he sketched out manipulated space-time by generating a so-called “warp bubble” that would expand space on one side of a spacecraft and contract it on another.

An Alcubierre Warp Drive stretches spacetime in a wave causing the fabric of space ahead of a spacecraft to contract and the space behind it to expand. The ship can ride the wave to accelerate to high speeds and time travel. The Alcubierre drive, also known as the Alcubierre metric or Warp Drive, is a mathematical model of a spacetime exhibiting features reminiscent of the fictional "warp drive" from Star Trek, which can travel "faster than light/"

Quite a bit more here:
www.dailygalaxy.com...

edit on 28-10-2013 by JadeStar because: (no reason given)

Interesting, but before doing or attempting anything of such kind, why do not the ones in the known simply come out and say what they know/hide from the population about UFO's ?

The idea is great, but before even thinking about going into space with a military agency, some questions should be answered concerning these nebulous matters.




Thruthseek3r

NativeZero
reply to post by ThePeaceMaker

 

According to physicists, there will be a gravity 'wave' in front of the ship that'll protect it from small meteorites and stuff. Planets and big things will still be a problem, haha.

Actually its more like the ship is inside a bubble which is disconnected from our space/time so things inside our space/time like asteroids (btw: a meteorite is something that hits the earth) etc would be moving AROUND the bubble the ship created.


Think of it like this: Our universe is the inside surface of a balloon. The warp bubble is like a tiny baby universe which only contains the ship so its like a little tiny balloon on the outside surface of the big balloon.

It "falls toward" the point it wants to go inside the balloon along the curvature of the large space/time balloon on the outside.

However nothing on the inside surface of that balloon, be it interstellar dust or even planets would be a major threat to it until it re-enters the inside surface of the balloon.

It reminds me of a song lyric:

"This, isn't just, in the mind."
"We're suspended from space and time."

ThePeaceMaker
One thing I've always thought when watching Star Trek and they go into warp .. When travelling so fast through space that has asteroids planets stars suns meteor/ asteroid fields .. When travelling so fast what's going to stop you slamming into one of these

I've often wondered the same thing. I also have pondered the thought how a human body can be brought to such speed and suddenly "stop" without turning to...well...vapor. Our bodies couldn't endure that kind of speed unless we were protected with some kind of special suit and even then... I don't know.

~Sovereign

thruthseek3r

JadeStar
Who needs a space shuttle anyway?

Move over Star Trek! According to state-of-the art theory, a warp drive could cut the travel time between stars from tens of thousands of years to weeks or months. Harold G. White, a physicist and advanced propulsion engineer at NASA and other NASA engineers are trying to determine whether faster-than-light travel — warp drive — might someday be possible. The team has attempting to slightly warp the trajectory of a photon, changing the distance it travels in a certain area, and then observing the change with a device called an interferometer.

“Space has been expanding since the Big Bang 13.7 billion years ago,” said Dr. White, 43, who runs the research project told the New York Times. “And we know that when you look at some of the cosmology models, there were early periods of the universe where there was explosive inflation, where two points would’ve went receding away from each other at very rapid speeds. Nature can do it,” he added. “So the question is, can we do it?”

In 1994, a Mexican physicist, Miguel Alcubierre, theorized that faster-than-light speeds were possible in a way that did not contradict Einstein by harnessing the expansion and contraction of space itself. Under Dr. Alcubierre’s hypothesis, a ship still couldn’t exceed light speed in a local region of space. But a theoretical propulsion system he sketched out manipulated space-time by generating a so-called “warp bubble” that would expand space on one side of a spacecraft and contract it on another.

An Alcubierre Warp Drive stretches spacetime in a wave causing the fabric of space ahead of a spacecraft to contract and the space behind it to expand. The ship can ride the wave to accelerate to high speeds and time travel. The Alcubierre drive, also known as the Alcubierre metric or Warp Drive, is a mathematical model of a spacetime exhibiting features reminiscent of the fictional "warp drive" from Star Trek, which can travel "faster than light/"

Quite a bit more here:
www.dailygalaxy.com...

edit on 28-10-2013 by JadeStar because: (no reason given)

Interesting, but before doing or attempting anything of such kind, why do not the ones in the known simply come out and say what they know/hide from the population about UFO's ?

Perhaps such stories are exaggerations or misunderstandings?

Perhaps such stories are in fact true but they still don't understand how they work?

Perhaps such stories are all disinformation to make other nations fear a US wonderweapon that doesn't exist?

Perhaps such such stories are true but the technology is so in the black that the above ground world needs to catch up first?

Perhaps if we all put our thinking caps on we can see there is communication between some little known scientists in the above ground world with the black world perhaps for the second reason I cited? (This is something I am working on pinning down and will be the subject of its own thread eventually.)

The idea is great, but before even thinking about going into space with a military agency, some questions should be answered concerning these nebulous matters.

Thruthseek3r

NASA is not a military agency. If it was they'd be getting a crapload more money and would not have to shut down science programs left and right due to budget cuts (which never seem to affect the black budget by the way).

I think you are misunderstanding what they are testing here.

They aren't testing an actual warp drive ready to go into space. That remains speculative sci-fi. (At least in the above ground science world.)

They are testing whether we can bend space/time at a very tiny level right now to see if the Albecurrie warp drive is even possible.

By the way, here is an old page still on NASA's web site about the idea and their (now cancelled) Breakthrough Propulsion Physics program (where research like this was carried out routinely, it only made news now because it was stopped so this new test of warp theory seems "new"):

www.nasa.gov...

On the chart atop that page there is a scale. Back in the 1990s when the BPP program was active the status of the warp theory was in the speculative stage of it:



Today the chart would move it into the science phase. Still a long way away from application. But its progress nonetheless.

ZetaRediculian

I'm more curious why all the aliens speak English and look like humans with bad costumes.

Who said any ETs speak English? If they use telepathy, you do the translation yourself and understand ET in "English" even though ET never spoke in the first place.

And why wouldn't ET look like you; many ETs ARE Human.

Step back from yourselves for a minute and catch your breath, y'all ain't special.

SovereignEve

ThePeaceMaker
One thing I've always thought when watching Star Trek and they go into warp .. When travelling so fast through space that has asteroids planets stars suns meteor/ asteroid fields .. When travelling so fast what's going to stop you slamming into one of these

I've often wondered the same thing. I also have pondered the thought how a human body can be brought to such speed and suddenly "stop" without turning to...well...vapor. Our bodies couldn't endure that kind of speed unless we were protected with some kind of special suit and even then... I don't know.

~Sovereign

Because the ship has "intertial dampers". It's the same reason they do not all float around in weightlessness.

The inertia and gravity inside the ship is maintained by part of the warp engine.

Which may not be too far off because under the real warp theory the ship itself would be encased in its own bubble outside of space and time. In that bubble it is not moving much at all. The bubble itself is moving. So the crew would neither experience g-forces nor time dilation because its outside of space/time when warping.

JadeStar
On the chart atop that page there is a scale. Back in the 1990s when the BPP program was active the status of the warp theory was in the speculative stage of it:

Today the chart would move it into the science phase. Still a long way away from application. But its progress nonetheless.

The problem is that the "warp theory" is still all speculation, at least until they have reproducible laboratory science to back up their theory.

The Heim-Lorentz drive already has early engineering done, so it has progressed from speculation, through science, to Technology.