Was ancient man schizophrenic? Voice of God and Jayne's "bicameral mind"

reply to post by poet1b

Evolutionary psychology ... read it when it first came out.

It was a good idea at the time but I have not seen further work presented on it.

I think Jaynes thought Jesus was the first conscious man.

In transpersonal psychology, in the esoteria category, is a not so uncommon experience where an individual comes to realize that within them, are multiple "perspectives."

Currently, "it is supposed to be seamless," my perspectives tell me. It isn't supposed to be perceived as 'external' so that I am having a debate with multiple others with identities; rather, it seems internal, like I am having a debate with myself. Everyone has that. We just think of it as being able to see multiple points of an issue and argue it with ourselves. Most of us do this when thinking about any issue while say, looking for a place to park. For some people, the 'perspectives' are more lucidly and distinctly observed, as having identities, personalities, autonomy.

I have no idea if Jaynes is right or wrong in his theory, or in the science underlying it; perhaps not. I don't know what the past humans were like compared to us. But I think the concept of humans having -- or having access to, I am uncertain of the subtle difference -- "multiple perspectives" which may have entire 'identities and personalities' seems to be so. How individuals perceive this varies is all.

I read that book the day (or two, I recall it was big) before I got married in Spring of 1995.

I think it is worth considering: whether such multiple perspectives are seemingly-external (Jaynes' hypothesized ancient man), or "seamless" as most people have it currently, do we really know the source in totality of this "multiple perspective" capacity humans seem to have? How different are 'gods' of old and 'guides' of today?

One thing I found humorous about Jayne's theory was the seeming assumption that whatever "the gods" seemed to say, to ancient man, was 'the command.' That is to say, there was just ONE voice. Most people who are aware of multiple distinct perspectives internally can tell you that they mostly sound like an argumentative city council LOL. If ancient man heard these perspectives (mine insist they are called Aeons) externally, it would be actually comical to imagine him attempting to follow their 'instructions' since they only occasionally (rarely at first, moreso after you work with them awhile) agree on anything.

In fact, in my head I find it humorous that initially, when they are kind of in chaos and at odds, it has an effect a lot like the "design by committee" does in business: it's a disaster. It's amazing anything gets done and it's usually at best barely competent. The more one works with the perspectives in a 'relationship' (which perhaps ancient man had a better sense of than we do), the more things clear up, the more they relate better to the individual and each other, and the less interference and chaos seems to exist -- and the "reality experience" of the individual tends to clear up in accordance with this.

I think Ram Daas has some talks on this.

So what I am saying is that while Jaynes is hypothesizing about ancient man based on what he thinks crazy people (e.g. schizophrenics) experience now, there are plenty of perfectly functional and successful people who, especially when taken in group, actually evidence that this 'underlying dynamic' is present in man even today.

RedCairo
there are plenty of perfectly functional and successful people who, especially when taken in group, actually evidence that this 'underlying dynamic' is present in man even today.

Yup; modern day shaman's mystics and the rest..
especially if they train their rational mind just
as hard as their unconscious mind.

Good post.

KPB

poet1b
reply to post by LittleByLittle

 

What this makes me wonder, is if, we went through some change, that disconnected us from our higher selves.

In ancient tales, the gods were once amongst us, and then they were gone.

The change we went through is overreliance upon the subjective perspective of the world. This is the biblical allegory of the Garden of Eden, where mankind lived in a state of bliss in tune with God until consuming the fruit of [subjective] knowledge, whereby they then began to artificially create distinctions between "good" and "evil."

This is the same allegory found in Taoism, where embrace and indulgence of the subjective mind causes disconnection from the Tao--the root source of the universe, the creator of all things.

Reconnection with the higher self is possible, but it requires calming of the mind and discarding of the subjective illusions that provide false constrains upon your ordinarily limitless view of reality.

Meditation helps with this. As does energy cultivation through Qigong.

As does cleansing the body with a diet free from poisons/toxins. The Ayahuasca Diet is a good starting point to cleanse the body and eliminate unnecessary toxins from your being.

Cleansing the pineal gland also helps establish a clean pathway through which you can connect with the spirit world. There are a number of good threads on ATS (and on the interwebz at large) regarding this, but you can start by eliminating consumption of flouride with using substances like skate liver oil and borax to cleanse out accumulated calcification.

Reconnection with the higher soul is a lifelong path, so if you're really interested in getting there, better start today.

therealguyfawkes

poet1b
reply to post by LittleByLittle

 

What this makes me wonder, is if, we went through some change, that disconnected us from our higher selves.

In ancient tales, the gods were once amongst us, and then they were gone.

The change we went through is overreliance upon the subjective perspective of the world. This is the biblical allegory of the Garden of Eden, where mankind lived in a state of bliss in tune with God until consuming the fruit of [subjective] knowledge, whereby they then began to artificially create distinctions between "good" and "evil."

Good good. However the condition described was one were there was no overreliance or subjective perspective. In fact the idea of perspective and subjectivity are ideas, terms, definitions that have naturally had to rise out of our "knowledge of good and evil" which is our death and why we must die.

The knowledge of good and evil, or I should say the condition that makes this knowledge possible, is a terminal condition, part of our terminal condition. The knowledge of same does not lead to ultimate enlightenment or a new eternal condition that leads to life.

Even if you believe it was allegory note that man was then kept away from the tree of life which he clearly had access to before knowledge of good and evil. Its clear that the knowledge of good and evil is not a necessary concomitant to eternal life.

Logarock

Good good. However the condition described was one were there was no overreliance or subjective perspective. In fact the idea of perspective and subjectivity are ideas, terms, definitions that have naturally had to rise out of our "knowledge of good and evil" which is our death and why we must die.

The knowledge of good and evil, or I should say the condition that makes this knowledge possible, is a terminal condition, part of our terminal condition. The knowledge of same does not lead to ultimate enlightenment or a new eternal condition that leads to life.

Even if you believe it was allegory note that man was then kept away from the tree of life which he clearly had access to before knowledge of good and evil. Its clear that the knowledge of good and evil is not a necessary concomitant to eternal life.

Yep, the arising of subjective notions of good and evil is precisely what led mankind down its destructive path, culminating in a ruined environment, in abysmal sufferings, in animalistic emotions like greed and hatred, and the numerous mental/physical conditions that plague most humans.

Only by divesting one's self from the limited perspective of artificial subjectivity can one expand the consciousness, repair the soul, develop universal love, and raise one's frequency to become once-more in tune with the all-pervasive yet oft-overlooked blissful harmony that is the consciousness of God.

therealguyfawkes

Logarock

Good good. However the condition described was one were there was no overreliance or subjective perspective. In fact the idea of perspective and subjectivity are ideas, terms, definitions that have naturally had to rise out of our "knowledge of good and evil" which is our death and why we must die.

The knowledge of good and evil, or I should say the condition that makes this knowledge possible, is a terminal condition, part of our terminal condition. The knowledge of same does not lead to ultimate enlightenment or a new eternal condition that leads to life.

Even if you believe it was allegory note that man was then kept away from the tree of life which he clearly had access to before knowledge of good and evil. Its clear that the knowledge of good and evil is not a necessary concomitant to eternal life.

Yep, the arising of subjective notions of good and evil is precisely what led mankind down its destructive path, culminating in a ruined environment, in abysmal sufferings, in animalistic emotions like greed and hatred, and the numerous mental/physical conditions that plague most humans.

Only by divesting one's self from the limited perspective of artificial subjectivity can one expand the consciousness, repair the soul, develop universal love, and raise one's frequency to become once-more in tune with the all-pervasive yet oft-overlooked blissful harmony that is the consciousness of God.

"repair the soul"...."raise ones frequency"....


those are just new age catch terms. What exactly happens when you "raise your frequency"? Cite examples of studies of such, even by laypersons.

What exactly happens when you "repair the soul"? And how, exactly, does one go about doing it? What damages it in the first place.

Lastely, you DO realize that the animalistic urges are part and parcel to the human condition, right? We are animals. Our brains work on neurochemistry, like all other animals. Greed was with humans before we were humans, because we have evolved through entire epochs of scarcity of resources/food.

I guess what I am saying is, you wrote a whole lotta words that mean very little in my estimation. And I am a "new ager" myself (ascribing to Amerind shamanic beliefs, for the most part).

Logarock

The change we went through is overreliance upon the subjective perspective of the world. This is the biblical allegory of the Garden of Eden, where mankind lived in a state of bliss in tune with God until consuming the fruit of [subjective] knowledge, whereby they then began to artificially create distinctions between "good" and "evil."

This is a very astute definition of what "good" and "evil" essentially are.

Because, in reality...there is no "good" or "evil". There is just action/inaction.

[Quote]
Repair the soul.


The best 3 words you've ever posted.

Now define the soul and give 3 examples.

KPB

bigfatfurrytexan

therealguyfawkes

Logarock

Good good. However the condition described was one were there was no overreliance or subjective perspective. In fact the idea of perspective and subjectivity are ideas, terms, definitions that have naturally had to rise out of our "knowledge of good and evil" which is our death and why we must die.

The knowledge of good and evil, or I should say the condition that makes this knowledge possible, is a terminal condition, part of our terminal condition. The knowledge of same does not lead to ultimate enlightenment or a new eternal condition that leads to life.

Even if you believe it was allegory note that man was then kept away from the tree of life which he clearly had access to before knowledge of good and evil. Its clear that the knowledge of good and evil is not a necessary concomitant to eternal life.

Yep, the arising of subjective notions of good and evil is precisely what led mankind down its destructive path, culminating in a ruined environment, in abysmal sufferings, in animalistic emotions like greed and hatred, and the numerous mental/physical conditions that plague most humans.

Only by divesting one's self from the limited perspective of artificial subjectivity can one expand the consciousness, repair the soul, develop universal love, and raise one's frequency to become once-more in tune with the all-pervasive yet oft-overlooked blissful harmony that is the consciousness of God.

"repair the soul"...."raise ones frequency"....


those are just new age catch terms. What exactly happens when you "raise your frequency"? Cite examples of studies of such, even by laypersons.

What exactly happens when you "repair the soul"? And how, exactly, does one go about doing it? What damages it in the first place.

Lastely, you DO realize that the animalistic urges are part and parcel to the human condition, right? We are animals. Our brains work on neurochemistry, like all other animals. Greed was with humans before we were humans, because we have evolved through entire epochs of scarcity of resources/food.

I guess what I am saying is, you wrote a whole lotta words that mean very little in my estimation. And I am a "new ager" myself (ascribing to Amerind shamanic beliefs, for the most part).

The body operates at an energetic frequency depending upon its condition. A body that is free from toxins, from poisonous chemicals, strong in vitality and physically robust will resonate at a higher frequency.

The book Vitality, Energy, Spirit, translated by Thomas Cleary can explain this in better detail.

Your soul is tarnished by the baggage you've accumulated in this life and the others. Things like the weight of bad karma, the burden of evil deeds, preoccupation with the irrelevant--these all contribute to the condition of your soul.

The belief of the ancient Egyptians, who thoughts that after death the heart (soul) is weighed against a feather, and only a soul that is lighter than that feather can ascend to the higher realms, embodies this idea.

Cleansing the soul is the process of atoning for past misdeeds, of discarding all the spiritual and psychological and instinctual baggage that keeps us tethered to this particular "grade level" in the school of reality. Meditation is a good way of untying these psychic knots on the soul, as it Qigong (the book Qigong Empowerment by Wu and Liang is the essential encyclopedia of the art), as is actively repenting for the things you've done wrong.

But remember--the only real way to apologize for indulging in evil is to never do it again.

As to your other belief--no, we are most certainly NOT just animals. We're divine spirits shackled to animal flesh, and whether we choose to follow our instincts towards higher action--expressing love, compassion, and empathy--thereby raising ourselves towards a state of divinity; or allow ourselves to embody the worst characteristics of this animal flesh--greed and lust and hate--form the only real choices that confront us in this earthly realm.

All choices are essentially a decision between following the call of the higher soul or the urges of the lower. This is the quintessence of this human experience, the only real metric against which our experiences in this reality will be judged.

In short, this human experience is just a game, a school where you have the opportunity to refine the soul. If you plan on graduating to the next level, you need to cast off all those animal tendencies that, in the end, only tend to hold you back.

Hope that helps.

reply to post by therealguyfawkes


You didn't define the soul or give 3 examples.
You also made reference to opinions from multiple
Cultures who maybe didn't know either.

How can you repair something you can't define due to quoting multiple nonauthorative sources?

You do have my empathy however. Not the easiest questions.

KPB

therealguyfawkes

bigfatfurrytexan

therealguyfawkes

Logarock

Good good. However the condition described was one were there was no overreliance or subjective perspective. In fact the idea of perspective and subjectivity are ideas, terms, definitions that have naturally had to rise out of our "knowledge of good and evil" which is our death and why we must die.

The knowledge of good and evil, or I should say the condition that makes this knowledge possible, is a terminal condition, part of our terminal condition. The knowledge of same does not lead to ultimate enlightenment or a new eternal condition that leads to life.

Even if you believe it was allegory note that man was then kept away from the tree of life which he clearly had access to before knowledge of good and evil. Its clear that the knowledge of good and evil is not a necessary concomitant to eternal life.

Yep, the arising of subjective notions of good and evil is precisely what led mankind down its destructive path, culminating in a ruined environment, in abysmal sufferings, in animalistic emotions like greed and hatred, and the numerous mental/physical conditions that plague most humans.

Only by divesting one's self from the limited perspective of artificial subjectivity can one expand the consciousness, repair the soul, develop universal love, and raise one's frequency to become once-more in tune with the all-pervasive yet oft-overlooked blissful harmony that is the consciousness of God.

"repair the soul"...."raise ones frequency"....


those are just new age catch terms. What exactly happens when you "raise your frequency"? Cite examples of studies of such, even by laypersons.

What exactly happens when you "repair the soul"? And how, exactly, does one go about doing it? What damages it in the first place.

Lastely, you DO realize that the animalistic urges are part and parcel to the human condition, right? We are animals. Our brains work on neurochemistry, like all other animals. Greed was with humans before we were humans, because we have evolved through entire epochs of scarcity of resources/food.

I guess what I am saying is, you wrote a whole lotta words that mean very little in my estimation. And I am a "new ager" myself (ascribing to Amerind shamanic beliefs, for the most part).

The body operates at an energetic frequency depending upon its condition. A body that is free from toxins, from poisonous chemicals, strong in vitality and physically robust will resonate at a higher frequency.

The book Vitality, Energy, Spirit, translated by Thomas Cleary can explain this in better detail.

Your soul is tarnished by the baggage you've accumulated in this life and the others. Things like the weight of bad karma, the burden of evil deeds, preoccupation with the irrelevant--these all contribute to the condition of your soul.

The belief of the ancient Egyptians, who thoughts that after death the heart (soul) is weighed against a feather, and only a soul that is lighter than that feather can ascend to the higher realms, embodies this idea.

Cleansing the soul is the process of atoning for past misdeeds, of discarding all the spiritual and psychological and instinctual baggage that keeps us tethered to this particular "grade level" in the school of reality. Meditation is a good way of untying these psychic knots on the soul, as it Qigong (the book Qigong Empowerment by Wu and Liang is the essential encyclopedia of the art), as is actively repenting for the things you've done wrong.

But remember--the only real way to apologize for indulging in evil is to never do it again.

As to your other belief--no, we are most certainly NOT just animals. We're divine spirits shackled to animal flesh, and whether we choose to follow our instincts towards higher action--expressing love, compassion, and empathy--thereby raising ourselves towards a state of divinity; or allow ourselves to embody the worst characteristics of this animal flesh--greed and lust and hate--form the only real choices that confront us in this earthly realm.

All choices are essentially a decision between following the call of the higher soul or the urges of the lower. This is the quintessence of this human experience, the only real metric against which our experiences in this reality will be judged.

In short, this human experience is just a game, a school where you have the opportunity to refine the soul. If you plan on graduating to the next level, you need to cast off all those animal tendencies that, in the end, only tend to hold you back.

Hope that helps.

Would you be so kind as to enumerate the range that this frequency resides in?

Where is the "next level"? What is it like? What is the benchmark to ascending into this "next level"?

I think you get where I am going with this. It isn't that I disagree with you, or agree with you. It is that you seem to state this so firmly and resolutely....why?

ETA: "quintessence" refers to the fifth essence. It is harkening back to the idea of the 4 essences: water, earth, fire, and air. The quintessence was the material created from which the Philosopher's Stone was created. I am not sure it was being used properly in your post above.

reply to post by poet1b


ATS Thread - Abraham - prophet of God or something else?
I had a thread about this on Abraham ...

If hearing the voice of god was schizophrenic. Well there are tribal cults in southeast asia who literally bring the voice(s) of their god(s) to their homes. Via a magick ceremony 3-5 year old children are offered as sacrifices to their gods spirits. The children practically become possessed by the spirits. And speak for these entities (minus the epic battles and romantic tales).

The gods in the epics were creations of a shakti spirit. In the western mind the Illiads heroes were zombies like a haitian dead guy awakened by a C bean formula. The gods in the illiad epics were creations of a shakti spirit. In the western mind that wud be confusing.

bigfatfurrytexan
I think you get where I am going with this. It isn't that I disagree with you, or agree with you. It is that you seem to state this so firmly and resolutely....why?

Because I've been there. And I'd like you to get there, too.

And if you take off the skeptical hat, wade slowly into the deep end of the pool, and keep going until you lose sight of all you used to consider your horizons, you might get there in this lifetime.

Meditation. Qigong. Cleanse the diet. Strengthen the body. That'll get you started.

If you follow that path deep enough, you won't have to question this information, because you'll have experienced the end result of it.

KellyPrettyBear
reply to post by therealguyfawkes

 

You didn't define the soul or give 3 examples.
You also made reference to opinions from multiple
Cultures who maybe didn't know either.

How can you repair something you can't define due to quoting multiple nonauthorative sources?

You do have my empathy however. Not the easiest questions.

KPB

The soul is the higher consciousness, the essence of you that's really you--the part of yourself that's looking through your eyes, moving your arms, and driving your body like a car.

Follow the advise I just gave to the poster above. Go meditate and practice qigong for 10 years. Clean up your diet, strengthen your body, and you'll find the answers you're looking for.

But if you're not willing to put in the work, no amount of words will help you understand. This is something you have to personally experience. I can condense it to language to show you the path, but only you can start walking along it to find the destination.

reply to post by therealguyfawkes


From my point of view it is about saturating the body with chi and at some point it is spirit/mind over body. The whole you need to purify your body is not true for some people so please do not use it as a truth for reaching increased chi flow. The more chi the more the body can repair since the placebo effect is working on an increased level (at least that is my theory).

And you can go thru a direct awakening where you are flowing chi and can feel the energy all around you without years of searching.

My advice for the people who want increased chi flow and have no own ideas (if you have a own idea follow it) then I would recommend learning reiki healing to get a flow going and heal yourself even if you might not sense it on the same level in your body as the ones who have achieved "the bliss". Another way is listening to chakra medition sounds for the people who are sensitive to it (worked for me). Singing is also a good way to increase the flow. Normal meditation if you can sit still for long period of times.

Test around and find what works for you.

therealguyfawkes

bigfatfurrytexan
I think you get where I am going with this. It isn't that I disagree with you, or agree with you. It is that you seem to state this so firmly and resolutely....why?

Because I've been there. And I'd like you to get there, too.

And if you take off the skeptical hat, wade slowly into the deep end of the pool, and keep going until you lose sight of all you used to consider your horizons, you might get there in this lifetime.

Meditation. Qigong. Cleanse the diet. Strengthen the body. That'll get you started.

If you follow that path deep enough, you won't have to question this information, because you'll have experienced the end result of it.

My brother,

I'm not skeptical.

I don't ask any questions of you or anyone else, in these
matters, that I don't already know the answer!

During the time that I had a mentor, I would spout all
sorts of pseudo-mystical stuff at my mentor, to impress
him with all my 'knowledge' regarding all the various
mystical practices; I also wrote him poetry on the spot,
told him what he was thnking and feeling.. told him
about his friends and colleagues I'd never met.. all
these things .. just to attempt to win approval
from him.

Then he's ask me something like "Define the soul
and give 3 examples" --- and I'd spout regurgitated
rubbish like everone else does.

But he wouldn't accept it.. he kept pushing me and
pushing me.. until I rose to the challenge and did
what I had to, to answer him even 1/2 decently..
with original thought and original observations
and only THEN use ancient texts to verify my
work..

He had me explain to him what enlightenment
was, why people who claim enlightenment aren't,
and fnially how to aid people how to find it.

I spent more than 10 years getting cut to mince
meat by my mentor.. and after I left him..
you now what I did? I upped the pressure on
myself by 100 fold, until the unfolding I wanted
so badly came to pass.

I've put about 50 years into 'wading into the
deep end' and now I live there. Can I still
grow and learn? Of course.. I'm a relative
newbie in the club house..

But just becuase I don't accept someone's
half digested twaddle, doesn't mean I
don't love them and support them...
it means that I DO.

People always wonder why they can't
find one of these 'nietzchen super
men mystic masters'...

Well I know the answer to that too..

I'm not an olympic gold medal athlete
and never will be. But for some reason
most people who are interested in
spiritual matters think, that they
can read a few books, do a little
meditation, pranayama, mudras,
microcosmic orbits, gregorian
chants and think about the legend
of atlantis -- and suddenly they
are some evolved being.

Don't work that way.

Real change comes to those who
work ultra hard and study ultra
hard and who would cut off their
limbs one at a time with a rusty
butter knife, if that is what it
took to succeed!

THOSE are the people I want
to get to know the most...
the people who I'd do almost
anything for...

For all the other people who
aren't that way.. or really
'open' due to a rare gift or
talent.. I shoot the #
with them; ask them a few
questions to get him thinking
maybe.. tell them I love them..
and watch them walk away..
all the while telling me how
much they know and are!

Which is fine.. we are ALL
deluded to some degree,
or we wouldn't be here
in spiritual Kindergarten.

I hope that clears things
up on the matter of my
'skepticism'.

KPB

KellyPrettyBear

therealguyfawkes

bigfatfurrytexan
I think you get where I am going with this. It isn't that I disagree with you, or agree with you. It is that you seem to state this so firmly and resolutely....why?

Because I've been there. And I'd like you to get there, too.

And if you take off the skeptical hat, wade slowly into the deep end of the pool, and keep going until you lose sight of all you used to consider your horizons, you might get there in this lifetime.

Meditation. Qigong. Cleanse the diet. Strengthen the body. That'll get you started.

If you follow that path deep enough, you won't have to question this information, because you'll have experienced the end result of it.

My brother,

I'm not skeptical.

I don't ask any questions of you or anyone else, in these
matters, that I don't already know the answer!

During the time that I had a mentor, I would spout all
sorts of pseudo-mystical stuff at my mentor, to impress
him with all my 'knowledge' regarding all the various
mystical practices; I also wrote him poetry on the spot,
told him what he was thnking and feeling.. told him
about his friends and colleagues I'd never met.. all
these things .. just to attempt to win approval
from him.

Then he's ask me something like "Define the soul
and give 3 examples" --- and I'd spout regurgitated
rubbish like everone else does.

But he wouldn't accept it.. he kept pushing me and
pushing me.. until I rose to the challenge and did
what I had to, to answer him even 1/2 decently..
with original thought and original observations
and only THEN use ancient texts to verify my
work..

He had me explain to him what enlightenment
was, why people who claim enlightenment aren't,
and fnially how to aid people how to find it.

I spent more than 10 years getting cut to mince
meat by my mentor.. and after I left him..
you now what I did? I upped the pressure on
myself by 100 fold, until the unfolding I wanted
so badly came to pass.

I've put about 50 years into 'wading into the
deep end' and now I live there. Can I still
grow and learn? Of course.. I'm a relative
newbie in the club house..

But just becuase I don't accept someone's
half digested twaddle, doesn't mean I
don't love them and support them...
it means that I DO.

People always wonder why they can't
find one of these 'nietzchen super
men mystic masters'...

Well I know the answer to that too..

I'm not an olympic gold medal athlete
and never will be. But for some reason
most people who are interested in
spiritual matters think, that they
can read a few books, do a little
meditation, pranayama, mudras,
microcosmic orbits, gregorian
chants and think about the legend
of atlantis -- and suddenly they
are some evolved being.

Don't work that way.

Real change comes to those who
work ultra hard and study ultra
hard and who would cut off their
limbs one at a time with a rusty
butter knife, if that is what it
took to succeed!

THOSE are the people I want
to get to know the most...
the people who I'd do almost
anything for...

For all the other people who
aren't that way.. or really
'open' due to a rare gift or
talent.. I shoot the #
with them; ask them a few
questions to get him thinking
maybe.. tell them I love them..
and watch them walk away..
all the while telling me how
much they know and are!

Which is fine.. we are ALL
deluded to some degree,
or we wouldn't be here
in spiritual Kindergarten.

I hope that clears things
up on the matter of my
'skepticism'.

KPB

Seems to be a bit of a misunderstanding here. I never called you skeptical--that was to the poster above.

Good to hear you've found a path that's working for you. I hope it brings you to the end of the road.