Christians refuse to tip waiter because ‘homosexual lifestyle is an affront to God’

Grimpachi
reply to post by JackSparrow17

 

Essentially I agree with you but the thing I have a problem with is how you say they are not true followers of Christ. It seems every time self identifying Christians do something dispicable other Christians denounce them as Christians or true Christians. As you pointed out all Christians sin by there own standards but in the Christian religions they are forgiven for those sins because they except Christ. If all sins are essentially equal then they are all equally forgiven so those two who wrote the nasty letter can be considered just as Christian as anyone else.

Other Christians do not have the authority to throw them out of the religion. As far as I know the catholic religion can excuminicate followers but that requires those in authoritive positions to do so. We also do not know if that couple is catholic or not. So bassicly if they identify as Christians then they are Christians and by the rules laid out in the bible the only authority to say otherwise does not reside on earth. Unless of course there is someone without sin here to cast that stone.

The problem is that the doctrine that they espouse is not what Jesus or the apostles preached. That alone disqualifies them from being Christians. We are to gently show people the error of sin, and gently lead away. Nowhere in the Bible does it say we are to do anything like these people did.

Also I'd like to point out that it does indeed state in the Bible that if there are believers in the midst that are leading others astray, or spreading false teachings, they are to be rebuked, and if necessary, cast out of the church if they refuse to repent. This is to protect the unity of the church. Think of it this way: the church is the people, not whatever building they hold services in. Followers as a whole are referred to as the body of Christ since the analogy is that we all have skills or abilities that are unique and uniquely beneficial to His Kingdom.

Now imagine that if you had a flesh eating bacteria that destroyed your right arm? What would you have to do to save the rest of the body? Amputate. Now what if you had people spreading false teachings in the church and causing problems for and in the church? If they can't be helped, they need to be removed for the good of all. Does that makes sense?

reply to post by JackSparrow17


And who is to say they didn't repent? You? All they need do is say I am sorry to god then they can go on their merry way. All is forgiven and they still remain Christians.

I have a question though. Did they spread false teachings or lead anyone astray? I have read far worse articles about what fundamentalists have said. Some of them in congress who have a huge backing by the Christian right. Do they get a pass because they speak from a position of authority?

The couple didn't break any laws. They were not required to tip and their note while in poor taste and uncalled for reflects a common mindset shared by many Christians.

If you are saying that because of what they did they are not Christians then I don't think there are but maybe a handful of real Christians in the world. Actually I think they are Christians and there are billions of Christians in the world but only a handful of saints which most Christians self identify with but few can compre too.

It's called lack of insight. Most people can't see themselves for how they really are.

Grimpachi


It's called lack of insight. Most people can't see themselves for how they really are.

Truth!!

Grimpachi
reply to post by JackSparrow17

 

And who is to say they didn't repent? You? All they need do is say I am sorry to god then they can go on their merry way. All is forgiven and they still remain Christians.

I have a question though. Did they spread false teachings or lead anyone astray? I have read far worse articles about what fundamentalists have said. Some of them in congress who have a huge backing by the Christian right. Do they get a pass because they speak from a position of authority?

The couple didn't break any laws. They were not required to tip and their note while in poor taste and uncalled for reflects a common mindset shared by many Christians.

If you are saying that because of what they did they are not Christians then I don't think there are but maybe a handful of real Christians in the world. Actually I think they are Christians and there are billions of Christians in the world but only a handful of saints which most Christians self identify with but few can compre too.

It's called lack of insight. Most people can't see themselves for how they really are.

Let me respond this way; I have many faults. I aspire to become a true follower. I don't consider myself to be a "good Christian" though. I don't treat people with love like I ought to. I curse like a pirate (mostly in traffic) and I have a low patience threshold. That's just to name a very few. I'm quite the mess at times. Due to this insight into my lowly state, I'm starting to realize that though I have many things to personally overcome to be the man I should, I still have hope.

Saying that, they did in fact spread false teaching through their note. The ideal and personal doctrine they spread through writing it down caused a young man to be led astray as to what a follower of Christ is all about. They misrepresented the faith by espousing attitudes contrary to what is taught in the Bible. Because of this kind of junk I've taken to referring to myself how the 1st century church did, as a Follower of The Way. I firmly believe that evil has seeped into the church over time. We hit the reset a few times over the centuries, but evil has always come back into it through evil people.

Though they didn't commit any crime, they failed on many accounts. Aside from the aforementioned lack of lovingkindness demonstrated to this guy, they failed to be generous with the money they were entrusted. Everyone knows how little wait staff make. It's a hard business. Believe it or not, you hit the nail on the head; there are many people who call themselves Christians who are not. Prosperity preachers, for example. Wolves in sheep's clothing.

JackSparrow17


Let me respond this way; I have many faults. I aspire to become a true follower. I don't consider myself to be a "good Christian" though. I don't treat people with love like I ought to. I curse like a pirate (mostly in traffic) and I have a low patience threshold. That's just to name a very few. I'm quite the mess at times. Due to this insight into my lowly state, I'm starting to realize that though I have many things to personally overcome to be the man I should, I still have hope.

More truth!!

Firstly to change ones self, we must first recognize that which needs to be changed.

And hope is all any of us have.

reply to post by OneManArmy


"And hope is all any of us have." Quote OneManArmy

Hope?...seriously?

How about walking the walk? 'Hope' is waiting for something to happen...while not actually doing anything...

Christians, or not...these nematodes need to be called out, which is probably how the story emanated...thoroughly obnoxious customers come in all flavours...but such was thier bravery and cohunas in christ, that they couldn't even face the waiter...that speaks volumes...cowardice of the first degree...

Å99

akushla99
reply to post by OneManArmy

 

"And hope is all any of us have." Quote OneManArmy

Hope?...seriously?

How about walking the walk? 'Hope' is waiting for something to happen...while not actually doing anything...

Christians, or not...these nematodes need to be called out, which is probably how the story emanated...thoroughly obnoxious customers come in all flavours...but such was thier bravery and cohunas in christ, that they couldn't even face the waiter...that speaks volumes...cowardice of the first degree...

Å99

Hope that when the time comes that we get to look over our life, that it was worth it.

OneManArmy

akushla99
reply to post by OneManArmy

 

"And hope is all any of us have." Quote OneManArmy

Hope?...seriously?

How about walking the walk? 'Hope' is waiting for something to happen...while not actually doing anything...

Christians, or not...these nematodes need to be called out, which is probably how the story emanated...thoroughly obnoxious customers come in all flavours...but such was thier bravery and cohunas in christ, that they couldn't even face the waiter...that speaks volumes...cowardice of the first degree...

Å99

Hope that when the time comes that we get to look over our life, that it was worth it.

People can recognise thier own 'sinful' behaviour when they do it...why wait?

Å99

akushla99
reply to post by OneManArmy

 

"And hope is all any of us have." Quote OneManArmy

Hope?...seriously?

How about walking the walk? 'Hope' is waiting for something to happen...while not actually doing anything...

Christians, or not...these nematodes need to be called out, which is probably how the story emanated...thoroughly obnoxious customers come in all flavours...but such was thier bravery and cohunas in christ, that they couldn't even face the waiter...that speaks volumes...cowardice of the first degree...

Å99

I've found through all the ups and downs of this life that without hope, what is there to live for? I can wager that the most depraved people on earth have no hope for the future, or anything for that matter. Without hope, one can't "walk the walk." You can't improve yourself if you don't hope you can.

JackSparrow17

akushla99
reply to post by OneManArmy

 

"And hope is all any of us have." Quote OneManArmy

Hope?...seriously?

How about walking the walk? 'Hope' is waiting for something to happen...while not actually doing anything...

Christians, or not...these nematodes need to be called out, which is probably how the story emanated...thoroughly obnoxious customers come in all flavours...but such was thier bravery and cohunas in christ, that they couldn't even face the waiter...that speaks volumes...cowardice of the first degree...

Å99

I've found through all the ups and downs of this life that without hope, what is there to live for? I can wager that the most depraved people on earth have no hope for the future, or anything for that matter. Without hope, one can't "walk the walk." You can't improve yourself if you don't hope you can.

I agree...except the decision needs to be made at a visceral level...the narrow path is just that...walking the damn walk...one foot in front of the other...not, I 'hope' I put one foot in front of the other...completely different dynamic...

Å99

akushla99

JackSparrow17

akushla99
reply to post by OneManArmy

 

"And hope is all any of us have." Quote OneManArmy

Hope?...seriously?

How about walking the walk? 'Hope' is waiting for something to happen...while not actually doing anything...

Christians, or not...these nematodes need to be called out, which is probably how the story emanated...thoroughly obnoxious customers come in all flavours...but such was thier bravery and cohunas in christ, that they couldn't even face the waiter...that speaks volumes...cowardice of the first degree...

Å99

I've found through all the ups and downs of this life that without hope, what is there to live for? I can wager that the most depraved people on earth have no hope for the future, or anything for that matter. Without hope, one can't "walk the walk." You can't improve yourself if you don't hope you can.

I agree...except the decision needs to be made at a visceral level...the narrow path is just that...walking the damn walk...one foot in front of the other...not, I 'hope' I put one foot in front of the other...completely different dynamic...

Å99

What you hope for and how you walk are 2 different things.
If I didnt hope for something, I wouldnt get up to walk at all.

OneManArmy

akushla99

JackSparrow17

akushla99
reply to post by OneManArmy

 

"And hope is all any of us have." Quote OneManArmy

Hope?...seriously?

How about walking the walk? 'Hope' is waiting for something to happen...while not actually doing anything...

Christians, or not...these nematodes need to be called out, which is probably how the story emanated...thoroughly obnoxious customers come in all flavours...but such was thier bravery and cohunas in christ, that they couldn't even face the waiter...that speaks volumes...cowardice of the first degree...

Å99

I've found through all the ups and downs of this life that without hope, what is there to live for? I can wager that the most depraved people on earth have no hope for the future, or anything for that matter. Without hope, one can't "walk the walk." You can't improve yourself if you don't hope you can.

I agree...except the decision needs to be made at a visceral level...the narrow path is just that...walking the damn walk...one foot in front of the other...not, I 'hope' I put one foot in front of the other...completely different dynamic...

Å99

What you hope for and how you walk are 2 different things.
If I didnt hope for something, I wouldnt get up to walk at all.

I don't assume your personal position, and all my love goes to any who find themselves caught on that roundabout of thought (some situations being harder to get off than others)...but, wouldn't and can't inform what you expect (and find, see, experience)...and it will remain that way until the visceral-level decision is made, that will generate the energy/compulsion to change that dynamic.

Å99

reply to post by JackSparrow17

Let me respond this way; I have many faults. I aspire to become a true follower. I don't consider myself to be a "good Christian" though. I don't treat people with love like I ought to. I curse like a pirate (mostly in traffic) and I have a low patience threshold. That's just to name a very few. I'm quite the mess at times. Due to this insight into my lowly state, I'm starting to realize that though I have many things to personally overcome to be the man I should, I still have hope.

Saying that, they did in fact spread false teaching through their note. The ideal and personal doctrine they spread through writing it down caused a young man to be led astray as to what a follower of Christ is all about. They misrepresented the faith by espousing attitudes contrary to what is taught in the Bible. Because of this kind of junk I've taken to referring to myself how the 1st century church did, as a Follower of The Way. I firmly believe that evil has seeped into the church over time. We hit the reset a few times over the centuries, but evil has always come back into it through evil people.

I will not call the couple evil. I think they were wrong for doing what they did I think they are misguided but not evil. As you said about yourself you aspire so that really is no different.

I have never met the mythological true Christians that people talk about the ones who walk the walk and talk the talk. The only Christians I have met are ones who talk the talk and some do not even do that. There are so many different sects of Christianity they argue between themselves about what the true way to live is. They all have their own interpretations and when something like this happens many of them are quick to say those Christians are not true Christians and from what I have seen they do not have any room to talk.

What they did may not be Christ like but I have no doubt they are just as Christian as any other.

reply to post by Grimpachi


I they detested his homosexuality they should have refused service and requested another waiter. It just proves they are prepared to use people to achieve their own ends without any regard to their fellow man.
I may be wrong but if Jesus was real i think he may have wanted to treat them like the money lenders.

GrantedBail
reply to post by Grimpachi

 

Those bible thumpers are historically cheap. Back in the day I used to wait tables. The fuggers need to cook and serve their own food. Nothing Jesustian about them They make their own rules. Right down to not feeding the poor.

I seriously despise them as a whole.

The right wing conservative "christians" are the worst.

edit on 25-10-2013 by GrantedBail because: (no reason given)

What would be your reaction (and the reaction of ATS) if this were said about homosexuals? If a Christian came on ATS and claimed they seriously despised homosexuals as a whole, do you think they would be lauded with the same fanfare you were? Would they have received the same amount of stars?

It's disappointing to see people react with hate and prejudice over a story that was supposedly highlighting hate and prejudice in the first place. I guess we should be progressive and tolerate everyone BUT Christians. They should be singled out and publicly shamed for the subhumans they are. But maybe that was the point all along. Certainly seems to be the theme of many of the OP's threads, anyways.

reply to post by DeadSeraph


Oh wah if you don't like my threads don't read them or better yet write your own. My threads are on topics that either interest me infuriate me or I simply want to see others opinion on. The persecution card gets played all to often by the fundies and I am calling their BS out.

When a fundie gets caught doing something like this the excuses roll in. Usually by the same group who screams personal responcibility at everyone else. It's not that I hate Christians or Christian fundies it's that the majority of them don't think their #### stinks. Well it does and it reeks. So suck it up and drive on or better yet learn from your fallen brethren and be better than them. Go walk the walk and if you talk the talk then do it the way Jesus would there are a few that do very, very few.

But what do I know I am just a heathen to most of you, you know because I don't believe in magical entity's and think we need to take care of this planet and each other cause that's all we have I am not looking forward to some mystical day when all the believers get whooshed away and the rest get tormented. You know I must be a bad person for wanting the human race to grow up but first it needs to wake up from the god delusion and get a grip.

Thats why forums are great. If you are reading it's your choice I would never push my beliefs on another not once have I preached to a neighbor knocked on doors to recruit or told anyone they would suffer eternal torment for not believing what I do. That would be immoral.

reply to post by Grimpachi

But what do I know I am just a heathen to most of you, you know because I don't believe in magical entity's and think we need to take care of this planet and each other cause that's all we have I am not looking forward to some mystical day when all the believers get whooshed away and the rest get tormented. You know I must be a bad person for wanting the human race to grow up but first it needs to wake up from the god delusion and get a grip.

I never said any of that. But way to completely ignore my point. I should expect nothing less, however. Duskangels said it best back on page 2 or 3 and was pretty much ignored completely:

You are a perfect example of a hypocrite using a fallacious argument called Special Pleading. Description of Special Pleading is a fallacy in which a person applies standards, principles, rules, etc. to others while taking herself (or those she has a special interest in) to be exempt, without providing adequate justification for the exemption. I guess it's not fair for someone to say that about gays huh?

reply to post by DeadSeraph


You know I didn't reply to it because it wasn't worth replying to. It was simply an attempt to take focus off of the couple who did wrong. For the record I have zero stake in the gay lesbian agenda but I do have a stake in the human decency one. If a person is decent then it doesn't matter what religion or non religion they are to me they are equal. If a person is crap then I see them as crap but when I see people using religion to justify their crap then to me at least they are lower than that.

I have seen some horrors committed in the name of religion the people committing them thought they were justified in doing them and in a way I bet the couple thought they were as we'll. It's not like they killed anyone which I have seen done in the name of religion before.

Anyway you can tell a few people in this thread seem to agree with the couple on some level. So yeah I am calling out this kind of crap because it's not cool, it's not right. Of course people are entitled to their opinions on the matter and as I said they didn't do anything illegal but it was a dick move and anyone who does the same deserves to be called out on it. If I read about it I will call it out so when people stop doing crap like this I will be happy to stick to posting science threads. Until then maybe those who can't handle the reality that their religion has inspired some people to be like those or worse should stay clear of my threads in the social political forums. BTW I also post a lot on evolution as well so maybe just ignore my threads all together. I am not here for stars if I was I would post Obama is a Muslim threads.

This is one of those accounts that makes me think not, "Why did this happen?" or even "is this true?" but rather, "Why do people presenting the news want us to be thinking about this thing in this way?"

reply to post by Grimpachi


Ok, so maybe evil was too strong a term. Misguided works. That's the issue I have a problem with, is that men have created their own sects, their own viewpoints on what a Christian is, and missed the boat completely. I strongly believe that most humans walking upon this earth and call them Christians are not at all. Do me a favor; check out The Fuel Project on YT. Watch the Restless Church series. This guy is legit, and he even agrees with non-Christians on the many faults of the church, or how he calls it, "churchianity." It's a good watch.