Your Money Is No Good Here: How Our Upside Down Flag Caused Local Business Owner to Turn Us Away!

daryllyn
I'm usually not one to post threads, but, I thought you guys might be interested in what happened to us today, and I'd like your thoughts.

Remember Homer's thread about the upside down flags? I was a participant in that thread. You have to glance at the thread if you haven't seen it yet.

It should also be noted that Kawrider9 made a thread recanting the story about his upside down flag and the complaints it received, which eventually ended up attracting the media.

I read Homer's thread the day it was posted and told my other half about it, and within about 15 minutes we, too, had our distress flag flying. In addition to the flag, there would also later be a sign at the front of the property saying 'Impeach Obama!' in the first line, followed by 'Gov't, get to work!' in the second. Perched atop the sign you would see a small Gadsden flag (don't tread on me, for the unfamiliar).

I had little to do with our part in this. I told him about Homer's thread, got into the shower, and came out to see a distress flag.. followed by the sign I mentioned, a short while later. At homer's request, I even took a picture and posted it in a reply to his thread, which can also be seen below.

In my estimation, it isn't hard to see that this country has serious problems, so in general, I agree with, and don't really mind the statement of the flag or the sign, especially since the government was shut down, and the 'threat' of default was looming at the time. For years I have been worried about our rights, the general state of things and the direction this nation is heading. I also am not an Obama fan. So. I'm fine with it and apart from lots of extra honking coming from the highway, we haven't really had anyone say anything about it.

Short background to today's situation:

Prior to the flag flipping, my other half went to a car lot in a nearby, very....VERY small, town. The guy agreed to work out a deal with us on trading a truck and some cash for one of his vehicles. He was supposed to come by and look at the truck and never showed up. Little did we know at the time, the political statement adorning our property, that sits on the same highway Mr. Small Town Car Lot Guy takes to his day job everyday, was the reason he never showed up, and the reason for his bizarre reaction, that would come later.

Fast forward to earlier this evening:

We had some time to kill on our way to parent/teacher conferences, the car lot was on the way, so we stopped in. I WISH I would have gotten out of the car because, the conversation was so unexpected. My head was pounding, it was cold, and not knowing the bizarre reaction that would come from this guy, I stayed in the car, so I only overheard parts of the exchange between the car dude and my other half.

Remember that these two were totally cool to each other, and ready to make a deal, just a few weeks ago.

My other half approaches the guy, and greets him. The very second that he mentioned the truck, the guy got weird, as if it clicked in his mind who he was talking to in that moment.

Here's the exchange:

Car Dude: "I'm not going to be able to work with you."

Other half: "What do you mean? I thought you wanted to trade my truck and some cash for one of your vehicles?"

Car Dude: "I saw all that Tea party # and that upside down flag at your place."

Other half: "Yeah? And?"

Car Dude: "I just can't condone that. I won't do business with you. Your money isn't good here, and neither is your truck."

Other half: "What? The distress flag? Do you even know what it represents?"

Car Dude: "No, I don't, and I really don't care. I can't condone that."

(For the record, we are not Tea Party. People tend to forget that the Gadsden was only adopted by the Tea Party, and that its actually a historical American flag dating back to 1775.)

Stunned, my other half gets back in the car and we drive away thinking... what on earth just happened here?

Was the guy suffering from cognitive dissonance?
Is he a died hard Obama lover?
Is he opposed to our first amendment right to freely express ourselves?
Why would our assumed political stance have anything at all to do with selling us a car?

I'm not sure what to make of it. Obviously the statement struck a nerve with him to the point he was willing to lose business over it. He completely rejected the explanation of the distress flag.. and wouldn't even hear a word of it. I'm bothered by it because I don't understand his logic or his reaction.

So what gives? What on earth went on here?

What say you, ATS?





HERE'S THE MOMENT RIGHT BEFORE THE EXCHANGE:

Car dude: (as your pulling into the parking lot): Damn it... Those Anti-Americans just pulled into my parking lot! I saw all that Tea Party crap on their front lawn.. Upside down flag, anti-America, Anti - Obama stuff... I know he's not that great of a president, but he's "OUR" president, and we need to respect that! i don't care what they have to say, i just want them off my property and i don't want to any business with them... They are Anti American and they are lucky i don't put my foot up their ass, for disrespecting the flag and our country... Damn Tea Baggers...

Car dude: "I'm not going to be able to work with you."

Other half: "What do you mean? I thought you wanted to trade my truck and some cash for one of your vehicles?"

Car Dude: "I saw all that Tea party # and that upside down flag at your place."

Other half: "Yeah? And?"

Car Dude: "I just can't condone that. I won't do business with you. Your money isn't good here, and neither is your truck."

Other half: "What? The distress flag? Do you even know what it represents?"

Car Dude: "No, I don't, and I really don't care. I can't condone that."

NOW HERE'S THE MOMENT RIGHT AFTER THE EXCHANGE:

Car dude goes back inside the little office, sits at his desk, and starts talking to another salesman about the OP... The other salesman gets up and walks over the TV and turns up the volume, so he can here the rest of MSNBC News...

reply to post by OpinionatedB


I wish you luck and hope you get the change you want. It is good that you still have the spirit of fight. That was real nice things you said and shows classic dependency traits. Your success or failure does not depend on anything that I said or did not say.

reply to post by AlienScience

You got that right, a big baby that isn't getting his or her way. Fact of the matter is, the tea party types are totally freaking out. They really were trying to hold it together hoping Robme would win the last election, when that didn't happen they have been going off the rails. I appluad the car salesman as a hero. I would like to know the name of the lot and location so I could send them a personal thank you note.

soundguy
reply to post by AlienScience

 

You got that right, a big baby that isn't getting his or her way. Fact of the matter is, the tea party types are totally freaking out. They really were trying to hold it together hoping Robme would win the last election, when that didn't happen they have been going off the rails. I appluad the car salesman as a hero. I would like to know the name of the lot and location so I could send them a personal thank you note.

A hero you say? Ok lets go with that line of thought. Car dealer refuses to sell to someone because they are wearing a nazi uniform. The man happens to be jewish and heading to a costume party. Would you consider the man a hero? Its a political statement in both cases. The dealer under law cannot refuse to seel something to someone just because he does not like their polotics. Its dicriminatory. and there is laws dealing with it.

Seriously the only Baby there in that situation is the car dealership. Pitching a tantrum because they dont have the same political beliefs as him.

And you are TROLLING the OP.

reply to post by yuppa

California's Unruh Civil Rights Act prohibits all types of arbitrary discrimination. This includes biases based on physical attributes, political beliefs, and geographical origin.

Courts also tend not to favor arbitrary discrimination. In the past, judges have used consumer protection, unfair business practice, and tort laws to punish such practices.

None of this means that you absolutely cannot refuse to serve a customer. It simply means that you need a legitimate business reason to do so. You can usually refuse service in the following situations:

When a customer is not properly dressed
When a customer has been, or is being, disruptive
When a customer harasses your employees or other customers
When there are safety concerns
When you know someone can't, or won't, pay
When a customer is intoxicated or high
When you need to protect another customer's privacy

Source

Discrimination based upon political affiliation varys somewhat state to state, but more states will include it as discrimination since it is a protected under the First Amendment.

I just wanted to add actual case law to what you are saying since that person wanted to argue with you.

yuppa

soundguy
reply to post by AlienScience

 

You got that right, a big baby that isn't getting his or her way. Fact of the matter is, the tea party types are totally freaking out. They really were trying to hold it together hoping Robme would win the last election, when that didn't happen they have been going off the rails. I appluad the car salesman as a hero. I would like to know the name of the lot and location so I could send them a personal thank you note.

A hero you say? Ok lets go with that line of thought. Car dealer refuses to sell to someone because they are wearing a nazi uniform. The man happens to be jewish and heading to a costume party. Would you consider the man a hero? Its a political statement in both cases. The dealer under law cannot refuse to seel something to someone just because he does not like their polotics. Its dicriminatory. and there is laws dealing with it.

Seriously the only Baby there in that situation is the car dealership. Pitching a tantrum because they dont have the same political beliefs as him.

And you are TROLLING the OP.

Only trolling I see is you. You have the same old childish tea party attitude, my way or high way. He has the right to think of the man as a hero if he wants to and equating the man with a Nazi because he cares about his flag and his country, well that is just wrong man.

The man as I understand her very detailed story did not throw a tantrum. Pretty simple, he very simply stated his position and that was that. And the supreme Court says it is your business and that you can choose to not do business with whomever you want to. That is your right and you don't even have to give a reason. He was within his rights not to sell them anything.

I think this is done, I tried to help us realize we still live in a great country, that the sky is not falling. That no matter what we can get through it, we can make positive changes. That we can agree to disagree and still be friends and neighbors etc. That is what makes us different and quite frankly unique from the rest of the world.

We are tolerant, caring people and we don't kill each other because we disagree or are of a different religious group yada yada yada. I genuinely care about all of you no matter where you are on this debate. If in the heat of debate i said anything someone took offense to i apologize.

We can turn things around. We can form non bias independent third party, it is necessary, we can vote everyone currently in Congress out. We can start national petition drives demanding constitutional changes to limit terms to two terms, to get rid of campaign finance, hey free debates and getting on the stump is enough for people decide on the issues not on how much money there pac has. Change so the popular vote elects the president period. We can bring back positive protest like occupy and do others.

Make the budget cut and dried. Everyone in homes across America knows that cutting things only gets you so far, that at some point we also are looking also at revenue. For us it might be garage sale, second job, selling something on ebay etc. Point being these parties need to compromise and have both cuts and revenue to balance our budget first and then turn it around and we can do that we reforming corporate taxes. It is really very simple, you do business here you pay period. No more opening an empty office on some island to get around paying your taxes. That is ridiculous. You do business here you pay to play.

We need to lower and make the tax fair.

Let's do these things, good positive things that can bring change. Folks this country has been through much worse. We can change, we can make it better for everyone. We are America and we are still great. The sky is not falling. We will get through this. All of you are in my thoughts and prayers daily.

We shall overcome and ask not what your country can do for you but ask what can you do for your country. Famous words we should live by.

The Bot

reply to post by yuppa


Seriously is that the best comparison you can come up with? Per the op this not a case of mistaken costume. This a case where a small business owner does not want to do business with a nutty malcontent. Hero is probably the wrong word though. I would now say he is a man of strong principle who's hand I would like to shake. Actions have consequences. Then again, I am doubtful that this is even a true story.

reply to post by OpinionatedB


I presume from what I can tell you were referring to my post, and allow me to salute your googling skills, I am tremendously impressed by them. Here is the point, they had no written contract, they had a verbal his word against her word contract (from what I can tell). Try to get that one enforced by the court. Unlike yourself, I will not pretend to know the law where this supposedly takes place. I just know around here you would be laughed out of court. I own a business and have had to seek contract relief through the courts, good luck is all I can say. I do not do business with known tea nutterz. I can't stand to be around them or listen to their mindless drivel. If I do get suckered into a job and find out that to be the case it is my last job for them. I still give them my personal best service but it is my last service. I stand by my last post I doubt the validity of the op anyway.

FYI I have been railing against deficits since RAYGUN started this runaway mess, but I digress.

OpinionatedB

EarthCitizen07
reply to post by OpinionatedB

 

Dont you think the tea party and republicans are playing their poker hand the wrong way? I mean they look desperate lately and dont even accomplish anything. They could accept that obama won, take the good with the bad, and wait till next year this time to vote as many senators and representatives out as they wish.

Voting does mean something. I dont believe the vote count is rigged. This isnt ethiopia yet. Its just that people vote according to their mainstream beliefs influenced by msm. There are many candidates and parties to choose from IF they want to.

By the way, I am sorry for the lose of your daughter. Its never easy for the family and relatives.

edit on 28/10/13 by EarthCitizen07 because: (no reason given)

Thank you for your condolences. Your right, its never easy.

I think the republicans are very wrong right now, and I am not with the tea party either... that was taken over by the GOP from what I heard long ago.

I voted, as I said before, the first time for Obama. But, it was apparent after he was in office a year and a half that he was only there to further the policies enacted by prior elected officials. Right now there is one agenda, regardless of party in Washington today.

And that agenda is not one that is for the people and by the people. They are tearing up the constitution, and destroying this country socially and economically in the process, in order to replace what was fought for in this country to a socialist state.

I stand with none of them, "We", all "The People", need now to stand for what is right for this country... NO ONE else is doing it.

Sorry for your loss, my thoughts and prayers will be with. From one veteran to another thank you and if there is ever anything I could help just ask or if just want someone to yell at or talk to i am here man.

The Bot

soundguy
reply to post by yuppa

 

Seriously is that the best comparison you can come up with? Per the op this not a case of mistaken costume. This a case where a small business owner does not want to do business with a nutty malcontent. Hero is probably the wrong word though. I would now say he is a man of strong principle who's hand I would like to shake. Actions have consequences. Then again, I am doubtful that this is even a true story.

The LAW backs me up. you have opinions alone. And I mad eup the story of the jewish person as a example alone. The OP is not making a story up. Do you see it in HOAX? The LAW trumps the Car dealers feelings no matter what you believe. ALso Im NO PARTY i dislike all of them. All parties are corrupted. Their money is just as good as anyone elses. And also they did not go up to the man and push their beliefs on the dealer either. Sure go ahead and shake a political bigots hand its your right.

reply to post by dlbott


I see you didnt read my post carefully. I didnt say the dealer was a Nazi. I was making a example of political bigotry. I said a MAn goes to the CAR DEALERS to BUY A CAR. HE is Dressed up as a NAZI on his way to a COSTUME PARTY and wanted to show up in a new car and was going to buy one. The Car dealer(who is not dressed up as a nazi) refuses the sale because of the way he is dressed. The MAn in the nazi outfit is a JEWISH MAN. The dealer does not want to hear it and breaking the law discriminates on political grounds to sell a vehicle.

Now do you get the example?

reply to post by OpinionatedB

Thank you opinionated. Its a shame they are not as educated on the discrimination laws. Anyway the OP would have a case in almost any court since there are 2 against one

reply to post by yuppa


I must agree regarding the poster to which you are referring. What I FEEL is right is irrelevant in the eyes of the law. Just as what that poster FEELS is right is also irrelevant in the eyes of the law. Like it or not, this is a fact. Unless, you get that law(s) changed/repealed which is your right to attempt....even though I would not agree with doing that at all, I would support their right to do that too.

I just cannot digest the fervent personal attacks going on here in this thread (from both sides). We should be debating the topic, not deriding the person on the other side.... < rolls eyes >

reply to post by soundguy

I do not do business with known tea nutterz.

For the 500th time in this thread....

WE ARE NOT, AND HAVE NEVER BEEN, TEA PARTY. (Not that there's anything wrong with that, because, to each their own.)

I stand by my last post I doubt the validity of the op anyway.

Yeah, because I totally made up this story so I could post it here and get flamed for it. *rolls eyes*

Listen.. you don't have to agree with it, and you don't even have to believe it. But you know what else you don't have to do? You don't have to continue participating in the discussion. No one is forcing you to do so. You said you don't agree, you said you wouldn't do business with me, you've insulted me and made assumptions, you've made your point.... so, what's there to be gained in continuing on??

It saddens me the way ATS has gone downhill on the civility and decorum front.

reply to post by yuppa


Firstly how many laws is the display violating here? www.senate.gov... I would say three right off hand. So if you want to speak about the law and respect of our flag maybe you should start there.

Second have you ever heard of the term here say? I would just love to be a spectator in that courtroom. Uh your honor, so and so said to my wife.... So please, by all means, tell us, what would be your law on my side retort be to "your honor I object, here say." ?

The end, check mate, have a nice day.

And no I don't believe the story, as far as I am concerned it is here say. It probably does have an element of truth to it though, I wouldn't wager on what part.

If I were the car lot dude in such a scenario, I would still honor any deal I had made previously no matter. It's just how I am. A deal is a deal.

And just to throw this out there for the record...

We have no intention in making this a legal battle.

daryllyn
And just to throw this out there for the record...

We have no intention in making this a legal battle.

Didn't you already state that repeatedly here in this very thread? I guess some folks are not quite up-to-speed on the topic, but still feel compelled to voice their uneducated opinions. Well, that is their prerogative, until it becomes a personal attack, then the ATS gods will step into the fray, AGAIN.

reply to post by soundguy


Opinionated covered this already. I am just going to ignore your trolling from now on. Read the entire thread before jumping into something next time. The OP is being truthful so stop trying to defend the posistion she is not.
Anyway @ OP keep ya head held high because the car dealers one of many biased people in this world.

dlbott

OpinionatedB

EarthCitizen07
reply to post by OpinionatedB

 

Dont you think the tea party and republicans are playing their poker hand the wrong way? I mean they look desperate lately and dont even accomplish anything. They could accept that obama won, take the good with the bad, and wait till next year this time to vote as many senators and representatives out as they wish.

Voting does mean something. I dont believe the vote count is rigged. This isnt ethiopia yet. Its just that people vote according to their mainstream beliefs influenced by msm. There are many candidates and parties to choose from IF they want to.

By the way, I am sorry for the lose of your daughter. Its never easy for the family and relatives.

edit on 28/10/13 by EarthCitizen07 because: (no reason given)

Thank you for your condolences. Your right, its never easy.

I think the republicans are very wrong right now, and I am not with the tea party either... that was taken over by the GOP from what I heard long ago.

I voted, as I said before, the first time for Obama. But, it was apparent after he was in office a year and a half that he was only there to further the policies enacted by prior elected officials. Right now there is one agenda, regardless of party in Washington today.

And that agenda is not one that is for the people and by the people. They are tearing up the constitution, and destroying this country socially and economically in the process, in order to replace what was fought for in this country to a socialist state.

I stand with none of them, "We", all "The People", need now to stand for what is right for this country... NO ONE else is doing it.

Sorry for your loss, my thoughts and prayers will be with. From one veteran to another thank you and if there is ever anything I could help just ask or if just want someone to yell at or talk to i am here man.

The Bot

I am so sorry. I am rather used to many people here knowing me but it seems I should occasionally reintroduce myself.

I am not a man, I am a woman... dont worry I am not offended.

Also, I am not personally a veteran, but my father, my brother, and my nephew, all are.(At current moment my nephew is in Afghanistan) My fathers family has been in this country since its inception, and my forefathers were in the revolutionary war in this country, we fought directly under General George Washington. (at that time)

There is no war that was not fought in by someone in my family for this country.. They all fought for freedom, ours and other peoples.. freedom is very important to my family. This country is very important to my family.

When we are critical of the government we are not tearing the country down, we just realize there is room for improvement and we strive for improvement rather than the regressive course its currently on.

I thank you for your words of condolence and your kindness, it is very touching. And also, I thank you for your service.

It is nice meeting you.

daryllyn
And just to throw this out there for the record...

We have no intention in making this a legal battle.

I do not think anyone believes you have that intention. Yuppa just mentioned to someone that it was a discriminatory act on the part of the car dealer and someone wanted to argue the point.

If you had wanted to make this into a legal battle, I would have been disappointed in you. It is what it is... its just sad that we cannot have differing political opinions in this country and still be accepting of one another as people. But I suppose its part of life.