Your Money Is No Good Here: How Our Upside Down Flag Caused Local Business Owner to Turn Us Away!

MichaelPMaccabee
reply to post by daryllyn

 

If that wasn't the implication, then could you clarify what was meant by this line in your OP?

Is he opposed to our first amendment right to freely express ourselves?

Could it be that he isn't opposed to your right to speech, just what your message is?

It could be. I can't really say for sure since he outright refused to discuss the matter, stating that he didn't know what it meant but, didn't care, only that he couldn't condone message, despite saying he didn't know what the message was to begin with.

BubbaJoe

daryllyn
reply to post by BubbaJoe

 

You started this post because you offended someone who decided they didn't want to do business with you. Nothing politically correct here, you were whining.

When did I claim to be politically correct?

you are of no protected class from your avatar

You shouldn't judge a book by its cover.

I am in fact in a 'protected class'.

Not that it has anything at all to do with the topic at hand, since he didn't discriminate against me for having a disability.

If I may be so bold.....but....

Can we please debate the issue/topic not the person please. Let us not make this a personal attack upon anyone.

Krakatoa
If I may be so bold.....but....

Can we please debate the issue/topic not the person please. Let us not make this a personal attack upon anyone.

ATS seems to be slipping in that regard. I've had more personal attacks in this thread, than in my entire time on ATS.

So, thank you, for pointing it out.

yuppa

MichaelPMaccabee

beezzer
Whaa, who gives a poop? People should have a god damned right to say what they want without the fear of progressive retaliation!

I will reiterate, since the way I phrased it before was deemed to be thread drift.

The OP has the right to fly the flags in her yard, but the Salesman should not have the right to turn her away because of them?

How does someone legislate which First Amendment right to trample on?

I guess you have never heard of discrimination laws concerning political beliefs? The car dealer was discriminating against them just as much in the eyes of the law as if he refused to sell the vehicle to someone of a different color. I think they should sue the jerk for discrimination myself.

Political affiliation is not a federally protected status, and as such, not all states (and it is only a few that do) treat political affiliation as protected speech. Moreso, political affiliation is only protected in regard to employment status.

No legal recourse.

Car Dude: "No, I don't, and I really don't care. I can't condone that."

This is the majority of American citizens actually.

daryllyn

MichaelPMaccabee
reply to post by daryllyn

 

If that wasn't the implication, then could you clarify what was meant by this line in your OP?

Is he opposed to our first amendment right to freely express ourselves?

Could it be that he isn't opposed to your right to speech, just what your message is?

It could be. I can't really say for sure since he outright refused to discuss the matter, stating that he didn't know what it meant but, didn't care, only that he couldn't condone message, despite saying he didn't know what the message was to begin with.

An Impeach Obama sign is pretty self explanatory. Maybe he wasn't interested in getting into a debate with people he is already sure he isn't in the same boat with? Maybe he didn't care to know about the details of the iconography, much like one wouldn't be interested in what the minutia of decorations symbolize on a KKK emblem or a Union badge?

Someone doesn't need to understand the details to get the full picture.

reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee

Someone doesn't need to understand the details to get the full picture.

You can't get a full picture without the details, as the details are what makes the picture full.

You can't do algebra without knowing the basic rules (details).

daryllyn
reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee

 

Someone doesn't need to understand the details to get the full picture.

You can't get a full picture without the details, as the details are what makes the picture full.

You can't do algebra without knowing the basic rules (details).

You don't have to understand the basic rules to know math when you see it.

MichaelPMaccabee

I'm all for personal expression, but at the same time, I understand that personal expression is going to lead to social consequence. The man not selling the car to the OP is social consequence. If we do not have social consequence, we do not have the person flipping the flag, which itself was a social consequence to the OP feeling social "distress".

OK.

So suppose I decide to no longer do business with Democrats. or Republicans. Or Libertarians. or pick-a-group. Won't sell to them, won't buy from them, won't hire them, won't talk to them.

Are you really saying that you think that would be a sound, valid, and legal business decision?

You think refusal to interact is a sound social decision?

Kevinquisitor


However,

"... and motivate more people to enter the fray lest they be the next target."

That I believe is what is stopping people from standing up now. I think (for me) they feel they're singling themselves out, and too many people would view them as an "extremist" "terrorist" whatever trigger word the media associates people they want to paint in a bad color.

It would take a lot of people willing to look past this life, and into their children's, and so forth to be able to stand up and physically take back what is ours.

Well, people CAN (and usually DO) try to keep their heads down and try to go unnoticed. Maybe the Big, Bad Monster will eat the other guy! The problem is, the Big Bad Monster will often grab THEM up by the scruff of the neck and gobble them right down on it's way to get the other guy.

You know what else Big Bad Monsters are fond of eating?

Sheep.

At least he has to think about the sheep that growls at him, and wonder just what it really IS... because sheep don't normally growl.

In other words, sure, you might get eaten, but you might as well leave a mark in the fracas if you're going to be eaten any way. Who knows? You might be able to cut the monster's throat on your way down his gullet!

MichaelPMaccabee

yuppa

MichaelPMaccabee

beezzer
Whaa, who gives a poop? People should have a god damned right to say what they want without the fear of progressive retaliation!

I will reiterate, since the way I phrased it before was deemed to be thread drift.

The OP has the right to fly the flags in her yard, but the Salesman should not have the right to turn her away because of them?

How does someone legislate which First Amendment right to trample on?

I guess you have never heard of discrimination laws concerning political beliefs? The car dealer was discriminating against them just as much in the eyes of the law as if he refused to sell the vehicle to someone of a different color. I think they should sue the jerk for discrimination myself.

Political affiliation is not a federally protected status, and as such, not all states (and it is only a few that do) treat political affiliation as protected speech. Moreso, political affiliation is only protected in regard to employment status.

No legal recourse.

I refuse your interpretation.The law DOES COUNT THAT AS DISCRIMINATION. A belief is protected
CHECKOUT NUMBER 2.
You are protected by law from discrimination because of your religion or belief if you:

1.belong to an organised religion such as Christianity, Judaism or Islam

2.have a profound belief which affects your way of life or view of the world. This includes religious and philosophical beliefs, or a lack of belief, such as Atheism

AlienScience

daryllyn
reply to post by SuperFrog

 

Can you please explain why Obama should be impeached?

Is it because you think drone attacks are like war crimes? Or is it because he did not push republicans harder to avoid government shut down?

I already covered my reasoning about Obama here in this post.

I'm not going to continue repeating myself because you were too lazy to read the thread.

Those are not impeachable offenses.

The American was a declared enemy combatant...if you are declaring yourself to be an enemy of the government and actively fighting against them...don't complain when you die because of it. The traitor was the American that turned against us and to fight along side those killing our soldiers.

Obama has never tried to take away your guns, just give it a break. He brought up sensible gun control...talking about gun control is not an impeachable offense.

The ACA was debated for over a year and passed by both houses of congress and legally signed into law. The SCOTUS reviewed it and declared it Constitutional. For you, or anyone, to continue to call it unconstitutional just shows a complete denial of facts and reality.


A call for an impeachment is a serious statement, and you have failed to back up that statement with anything factual or logical.

And you wonder why some people may not want to deal with you?

Thank you for chiming in to this discussion. I've been reading all of the posts and waiting for the appropriate time to make a statement. I think that you've been displaying a good stance in this subject in the fact that you've been highlighting crazy behavior and the criticality of calling for impechment of a president who has done nothing of this consequence. I'd like to bring another realistic point behind you if you don't mind.

See as I'm a black man, I'm afraid that if Martin Luther King had done something like hang a flag upside down and had signs saying Impeach Kennedy, I'd be using a black only bathroom and shopping at colored stores today. He would have been labeled crazy and not gained the popularity to accomplish the tasks that he was able to.

It's unreasonable to consider that these people are in dire distress or duress when they obviously are sitting at computer screens and can afford internet to even post in these forums. They are not captured, tortured, or even stuck on a rooftop as water is 10 feet high. That is a reason to turn your flag upside down. I guess these people can't even remember to story of the boy who cried wolf.

This symbol is an insult to me as a veteran and my military comrads. I too would refuse business and/or disassociate myself from a person that tried to justify this by a non-existent hardship.

HAs anybody noticed that this very site,displays a upside down American flag to denote a forum. Political madness has the round thingy with upside down flag. I dont hear any of you slamming ATS for their display, dont hear any of you saying how disrespectful it is. Sio if you want to slam some one for their ideals, start slamming the owners of the site,their as guilty as myself, Homer,Dary, and a whole host of others for flying our flags as a sign of a nation in distress.
So check it out for your selves.Go to forums and see it for yourselves. Seems as if it's a political statement after all, at least according to ATS. So vets, and all else OUR flags upset, the very site you use to slam us. Is as quilty as any of being disrespectful to the flag. But then again ITS THEIR DAMN FLAG AND THEY CAN DO AS THEY DAMN WELL PLEASE WITH IT.. Including, rounding it off and useing it as a forum marker.

SITE OWNERS & MODS- I dont have any problem whats so ever with you all rounding off and displaying the flag of America as a forum marker. It's you alls flag, do as you want with it.

reply to post by SilentKillah


I like your post. After much thought and participation in this thread, I just can't swallow it. It just does not feel right to hang the flag upside down for a protest.

But,you and I are in the minority here, I think. This is a ironic statement. I was born in Mississippi, a poor white girl in 1951. I remember the separate drinking fountains, bathrooms, sitting in the back of restaurants. I remember in the first grade passing the school bus with the black children. I remember it all. I also remember, my house did not have indoor plumbing and no heat. I lived with my grandparents then. As I grew I use to wonder, who the heck am I? I left the South when I was 14 and it was a real culture shock in the 60's but glad it happened.

Just offering a thought on this. I have not read through the entire thread, just the opening post and some of the random replies, but here goes!
Why fly the flag at all, either the right way up or upside down? It's a meaningless polarizing element that distracts from the arguments at hand and garners reactions such as the OP was subjected to.

I think it's a bit like the Bible. Christian Sect A, whose particular flavour of faith is the one true interpretation waves the Bible at everyone. Christian Sect B, also under the assumption that their particular viewpoint is the one true way also wave the Bible at people. Both essentially worship the same god but are polarized by a book and how it is viewed and interpreted.... and we all know how much division and how many deaths that has spawned over the centuries!

So, forget the flag entirely and focus on the message another way. The flag is nothing more than a government endorsed rag signifying THEIR power, and yet it is worshiped like some holy relic and must not be defiled! Of course, the little citizens have been brought up to think it must be respected and worshiped, but is it really worthy of such worship if it represents all that is wrong on the part of those who mandate it's status? I'd prefer to openly burn such a rag in front of them as a sign of defiance rather than bother to fly it upside down.
People are too hung up on this perceived idea of "patriotism" and waving their little flags. What is important is thinking for yourself, being true to yourself and upholding your ideals and ethics, not some government mandated icon.

In this instance, this simple yet pointless act has lost the OP a new vehicle, and the idiotic salesman a deal and profit, and all for what?

reply to post by Britguy


Youre in England, so you dont understand what the flag means to some Americans like Dary and myself.
You might not respect and revere your flag and what it represents, but we do ours.

HomerinNC
reply to post by Britguy

 

Youre in England, so you dont understand what the flag means to some Americans like Dary and myself.
You might not respect and revere your flag and what it represents, but we do ours.

You are using your flag as a cheap political prop...it's hilarious that you say you revere it.

This whole thing is seriously the biggest case of sour grapes, cry baby, throwing a tantrum that I have ever seen adults display.

You are not in distress...you are just being a big baby.

reply to post by SilentKillah

It's unreasonable to consider that these people are in dire distress or duress when they obviously are sitting at computer screens and can afford internet to even post in these forums. They are not captured, tortured, or even stuck on a rooftop as water is 10 feet high. That is a reason to turn your flag upside down. I guess these people can't even remember to story of the boy who cried wolf.

Exactly.

They claim they are in distress because Obama is President...it's just one more ridiculous act in a long string of ridiculous acts by the Obama haters. We have had..."He's a socialist", "He's a communist", "He's a Fascists", "He's gay", "He's the anti-Christ", "He's a Muslim", "He's a Kenyan", "He's a terrorist", "He's a dictator"...along with all the idiotic acts people have done such as the failed motorcycle rally, the failed trucker protest, the tri-corner hats, the gadsend flag, "Nobama" stickers...and now this...an upside down flag.

The only distress these people are in is that I think they have finally figured out that they are a small dying minority that no longer hold much influence over this country. They are old, they are outdated, and they are in the minority in their antiquated thinking.

The good thing is that this is just their final death screams...and that is why they are so bitter and desperate.

MOMof3
reply to post by SilentKillah

 

I like your post. After much thought and participation in this thread, I just can't swallow it. It just does not feel right to hang the flag upside down for a protest.

I wouldn't either. Maybe if america was invaded by a foreign nation I would. It justs seems too disrespectful for the average dumbed down person. They could have flown it at half-mast and sent the same message without the stigma attached.