Mason Compass Symbol Baphomet Symbol When Turned Upside Down?

VeritasAequitas
Actually as far as the letter G goes, you Masons have stated multiple times on this board that it doesn't necessarily represent God, it represents Geometry...Which is exactly what a compass and square makes ; geometric symbols...

Really? I must have missed that because it means God first and Geometry second and this is clearly explained in the ritual.

It is only your assumptions that my quotes were to be construed as 'one and only' explanations. I never stated them as such. You are the one however, that stated so matter of factly that they couldn't or didn't mean what I posted. That was the issue.

Is that so? You said:

VeritasAequitas
Incidentally, the Christian cross means the same thing as the compass and square ; the union of opposites...

No preface that this is your anyone else's opinion. I said:

AugustusMasonicus
The Square and Compasses are not a 'union of opposites', muzzleflash posted the exact explanation that is given to every United States Mason in one of his posts.

I cited the ritual. You cited opinion.

reply to post by TucoTheRat

That is a very nice way to put it.

reply to post by VeritasAequitas

Listen, an explanation is from the institutional (ie authorized ritual). Opinions come from individuals who cannot speak for the fraternity or give official explanations. Regardless of the use of opinion v explanation, if its personal it's not official.

reply to post by VeritasAequitas

According to Idaho work, it means both.

VeritasAequitas
reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

 

Actually as far as the letter G goes, you Masons have stated multiple times on this board that it doesn't necessarily represent God, it represents Geometry...Which is exactly what a compass and square makes ; geometric symbols...

Okay this is the last reply, since you somehow tried to create strawman argument against me. It is only your assumptions that my quotes were to be construed as 'one and only' explanations. I never stated them as such. You are the one however, that stated so matter of factly that they couldn't or didn't mean what I posted. That was the issue.

edit on 20-10-2013 by VeritasAequitas because: (no reason given)

I'm not a Mason, and I have a question and a theory. Is English the language used in all lodges worldwide? If not, is the G used in all lodges worldwide? If so, perhaps it symbolizes something completely different than a word starting with G.

reply to post by Nemo418

The "G" is not universal. It's primarily seen in the US.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

I cited the ritual. You cited opinion.

I cited explanations. Not opinions. However, where do you think that these Masons happened to get the belief or opinion that these symbols were emblematic of the union of opposites? You are enforcing a dogma that these symbols can't possibly be representative of this reconciliation, based on a 'one and only' interpretation of the symbols, which is antithetical to the goal of Freemasonry. This is the same reason nobody mentions the particular name of their God; it enforces beliefs that there is one right answer and therefore must be wrong answers..

In Freemasonry, there are no wrong answers, are there not? You entire argument has been pointless, not to mention a gigantic waste of server space and time.

reply to post by KSigMason


Thanks,



The imagery of the golden ratio in this video is awesome! Plus give some great hints on knowing all the angles in the pool game billiard.

The Rat.

VeritasAequitas
I cited explanations. Not opinions.

Are you suffering from some sort of cranial density disorder? You had four Masons explain to you that the ritual is the explanation. Anything other than that is a personal interpretation. Where is the disconnect?

However, where do you think that these Masons happened to get the belief or opinion that these symbols were emblematic of the union of opposites?

Who cares? Not relevant. Joe Mason down the street thinks they mean prime rib and mashed potatoes, he is just as right.

You are enforcing a dogma that these symbols can't possibly be representative of this reconciliation, based on a 'one and only' interpretation of the symbols, which is antithetical to the goal of Freemasonry.

The goal of Masonry? Really? Tell us Masons what our goal happens to be.

This is the same reason nobody mentions the particular name of their God; it enforces beliefs that there is one right answer and therefore must be wrong answers.

And you would be wrong again. There are Masonic authors who write specifically about Jesus and try to imply that the ritual is based solely on him being the only interpretation of the Great Architect.

In Freemasonry, there are no wrong answers, are there not?

There are no answers at all in Masonry. They are inside the respective Mason.

You entire argument has been pointless, not to mention a gigantic waste of server space and time.

Yet here you are, after repeatedly telling us all you were done, still arrogantly trying to tell Masons about what Masonry actually means and getting pissy when we tell you that you are wrong.

reply to post by VeritasAequitas


There was no need for any of that.
I explained in many ways what's up.

I don't know why you reject it?

Do you think it's not juicy enough to be the biggest secret? That "GOD" equals All?

Basically you ignored my valid relevant imput and targeted the masons for baiting them into nonsensical pointlessness.

When they say Masonry is not Dogmatic it means:

Your free to think as you will.
But there is one Dogma I noticed...

Facts. They want to stick to facts in matters of historic truth it would seem.

What's wrong with being dogmatic towards Truth?
I do know most Earthlings are dogmatic against the truth...thats lamentable.

Anyways I am afraid whatever you are doing to "open your 3rd eye" isnt working properly.
Detox bro, detox.

Nemo418
I'm not a Mason, and I have a question and a theory. Is English the language used in all lodges worldwide?

No, it is not.

If not, is the G used in all lodges worldwide?

The 'G' is mostly found in the United States.

If so, perhaps it symbolizes something completely different than a word starting with G.

No, it means God and can also allude to Geometry.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


I done figured out the Masons and their Grand Conspiracy!

They want to HELP mankind and share their teachings with anyone willing to listen.

It's all about charity and positive social gatherings!

They work tirelessly to overthrow tyrants and promote Liberty and Wisdom everywhere they infiltrate.

Like all other Orders, there are many who seek to take advantage for personal ambitions at detriment of others.

They are shams and certainly do not represent the founding principles of the organization.

After years of digging and fearing Masonry, I now realize my error.
I was the judgemental ignorant one.

No longer. I know God now
and the Truth has set me Free!!

reply to post by muzzleflash


I sense a new thread coming on........

reply to post by muzzleflash


What I just said is True.

But the Truth is so mangled, disfigured, and buried, that most will think I am evil now.

That is not true I came to Earth to root out Evil.
That will not change.

However, the fad of calling these fellows Evil blanket style has gotta come to an end.

Its time these folks learn the Truth and realize hating and judging are wrong.

Not gonna be an easy battle.
But it has to be fought.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


Good call I need to work on that.

Maybe I will just split it up into two threads, ATS has trouble reading much beyond a few paragraphs typically.

I wanna reach as many as possible.
Hmmmm must stategize the strategery. lol

VeritasAequitas
reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

 

I cited the ritual. You cited opinion.

I cited explanations. Not opinions.

You cited opinions. Learned opinions but opinions nonetheless. They are not in the ritual ergo as explanations they don't carry the same weight as explanations in the ritual do. And being opinions, (as I said in my earlier post) they can't be taken as universal truths. You seem unwilling to recognise this disconnect that an explanation does not necessarily equal the truth. A person on trial may offer an explanation of his/her actions but that doesn't necessarily mean that that explanation is the truth. That is why your obstinate stance that opinion and explanation are freely interchangeable is mistaken and the central weakness of your stance.

VeritasAequitas
However, where do you think that these Masons happened to get the belief or opinion that these symbols were emblematic of the union of opposites? You are enforcing a dogma that these symbols can't possibly be representative of this reconciliation, based on a 'one and only' interpretation of the symbols, which is antithetical to the goal of Freemasonry. This is the same reason nobody mentions the particular name of their God; it enforces beliefs that there is one right answer and therefore must be wrong answers..

You see? You seem to refuse to recognise that the worldview and experiences of these Masons may colour the way they receive the information that led them to their opinions and you likewise seem to refuse to recognise that that opinion while personal in reception (and perhaps similar enough for a particular cohort as to be substantively the same across that cohort)does not necessarily make it a universal truth.

Ergo it cannot be "FACT".

As AM points out, the explanation drawn from the ritual is the truth but then what every Mason of every different religious and socio-economic stripe then does is apply those truths to his morals (and experiences) that he may better understand them as lies within the compass of his attainment.

VeritasAequitas
In Freemasonry, there are no wrong answers, are there not? You entire argument has been pointless, not to mention a gigantic waste of server space and time.

Your argument has been that the explanations that resonate for your are the Truth and that those disagreeing with you are mistaken. AM has simply pointed out the inflexibility of your position and reminded you that the explanations as provided in Masonic ritual are truths while interpretative explanations of those truths qualify as opinion.

Clear enough?

Fitz

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

Are you suffering from some sort of cranial density disorder?

You are attacking me with an ad hominem and yet I'm the one who is getting pissy because I don't see your point of view...Life is a mirror AM..

Whatever bro..Enjoy your nonsense.

VeritasAequitas
Whatever bro..Enjoy your nonsense.

Read the other replies. Fitz, Ksig and Saurus are all wrong too.

I must admit that I can see Veritas' concern, in that he sees that reflection on the symbols may lead to our ultimate understanding of them. However, it is so hard to explain to someone who is not a Mason and does not understand our ways, perhaps because our way of teaching is so unfamiliar to those not initiated into one of the mystery schools. Anyway, perhaps I can try again in another way that may make sense...

One lesson that Masonry teaches is that if you have anything really valuable to contribute to the world, it will come through the expression of your own personality, that single spark of divinity that sets you off and makes you different from every other living creature (not ritual, but paraphrased from one of the degrees.)

Dogma? Some may call it that, because we are all taught this same lesson, and it's explanation is clear, but if you look at the lesson, it is our own interpretation thereof that matters.

This is not always the case. Some symbols have very deep meanings for me and I use them as magick tools, and others I find quite mundane.

Actually, come to think of it, I don't know if it's really possible to explain this unless you've done the degrees.

While I was in the hospital I felt that "Jesus" and "Lucifier" were the same entity. Both were "cast/sent" down out of heaven, and both came to teach us a great deal. Since "G" is omnipresent and in all things, this could have actually happened at the exact same time...think Cloud Atlas. Once things have happened in the past they basically have happened all at once. There's a "event horizon" for our perception of the past. Anyway, I thought Lucifer was the Sun of Man, and Jesus is the Son of Man....etc. Do I think they were real physical bodies? Does it matter? The stories are symbolic...just like 90% of entire existence is based off of and around symbolism. Mystery schools, hold many answers for those who are willing to ask them.

Lou

reply to post by muzzleflash


Then how is it the symbol is older than Einstein's theory? Did masons keep it a secrecy for so long? When was the symbol made , and when did Einstein's theory come . ?

reply to post by VeritasAequitas


Hey bro just wanted to say you sound real intelligent.
I don't think masons are bad, just bad at getting their story straight, ,
Now isn't it odd we got everything from e= mc squared to mundane moral principles to mashed potatoes and something.
It all sounds fishy to me, so they keep secrets but don't keep secrets, they talk in garbeldy gook from the point of a middle of a conversation you weren't having,but you know that's just cause your not a member, but no you can't get in to just see and experience it for yourself with no strings attached. My dad had an I.q. Of 165 and he seemed to think they were full of it , when he was a mason. And warned me not to join. Now what we got here is a failure to retain simple info and their explanations are as twisted up as a bread tie . We have lower grade masons explaining they've been taught how to interpret then told told to interpret for themselves ( oxymoronic ) g
Pike himself said something about keeping the low grades ignorant of the true meanings,( not a direct quote ) in morals and DOGMA ,, and masons will argue that book is tantamount to their masonry.
I've been studying the esoteric ,not overly seriously since 2001, 12
years. And although I don't talk to whole lot of masons , I do talk to them , but I look for the highest degrees I can find to talk shop if you will, and I have found most completely lacking of esoteric knowledge , or are they faking?
Since we can't quite pin what this stuff really means , why not Full discloser? Let's get the the masons, gather up all 33* masons( cause that's as high As they'll admit the degrees go) and don't forget all their affiliates , like the Shriners , and Scottish rite, all the top guys from the globe and get
one to give a straight definitive answer, oh wait that's really not fair, to any organization that puts a patent on knowledge. But oh wait , anybody can know, right? They just been trying to control the light of lucifer( pikes book morals and dogma , not a direct quote.) but what's wrong with lucifer? Nothing at all , why they even give the absolute highest honors to those who live their lives honest to the world , doesn't matter that some of the masons still revere that baby sacrificing beast 666,, old holy Crowley, BUT THIS IS NOT HOW WE SHOULD VEIW ALL MASONS. Remember they are TAUGHT what they are only allowed to know, or are they?
Yes it would be nice to get honest intelligible answers from people, but everyone in this world is TAUGHT.
While it is true that giving a gun to a mentally deficient person Is not wise. Are we to assume that they have such a powerful pearl ? Doubt it , at least not within the Lower degrees( under 32) .
But let's face it , people have wary thoughts about an organization that withholds information and uses subterfuge ( any organization ) ,,, sounds like what magicians do or shell games. "It's a con!" Is the first thought that pops up.
Would you want to go to the hospital and be treated by physicians who used such tactics? Where every physician was allowed to interpret medicine? Maybe, there are just some of those kind of people , sad to say.

Oh and dictionaries! For everyone! So things can be explained together with the same language not unknown babel , Along with full discloser by all organizations WITH AMNESTY FOR THE TRUTH. So we can move on from the rut our leaders everywhere have kept us in.
But where do we find such people? ,,,At the top..
Would they tell even with full amnesty? I'll bet some would hold out.
Evil men have always worked in silence not for fear of persecution, but death ,
Take a blood oath any masons? Taking a secret blood oath in order to conceal ?
Any body who takes an oath in order to conceal with others is a conspiracy of the first order. No matter any organization or INDIVIDUAL. ( security and personal secrets not withstanding to a degree,)
Now I hope that these pearls ( long winded)
Are still focusing people's attention .
I will reveal the name of GOD, a heresy , so that the only secret that has been keep from you by deficient judeo Christian leadership .
Look carefully and retain::
My name is; " your name here" " of God
My gods name is God of " your name here."
So that john smith's God is
I AM GOD OF JOHN SMITH
TO BE SPELLED " JOHN SMITH EL" if your jewish or something , the God of the Christians and Jews is the God the great I AM.
Who is your god? He is what you worship above all things( and there are a lot of things out there that people worship)
He is a living good . How do we know this? He has put life and the WILL to survive in all creatures to the tiniest cells. He gives life to all , therefore he must love us all . So should we.
Man has distorted things that are so self evident that people mostly wouldn't know their a** from a hole in the ground. But they've been taught that way. So forgiveness is necessary for our own personal benefit , lest we, as our mason brothers say it " get our goat" and act rashly .
Thanks