Mason Compass Symbol Baphomet Symbol When Turned Upside Down?

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

Did you notice the name of the book includes the word Interpretation?

All of which is highly irrelevant. You have as of yet, failed to reasonably explain why at least three notable masons, one of which restructured the rituals, seemed to think these symbols meant the same thing. Yet it's just their own interpretation; must be coincidence just like all of those musicians employing the same occult symbolism...

Your explanation you keep banging about is based on the interpretation of another is it not? So what makes one interpretation or explanation superior to another? Can they not mean both? Which in that case WHAT THE # ARE YOU GOING ON ABOUT?

VeritasAequitas
reply to post by Saurus

All symbols are explained superficially, but it is up to every Mason to find the true or deeper meaning of each symbol for himself.

Is it possible that the explanation given in your masonic ritual is nothing but an exoteric explanation, while the true esoteric meaning is to be interpreted as these three masons have?

This is the way I see it, except that each Mason has to discover the meaning for himself. I do not believe there is an absolute meaning for any symbol in the Craft. I think the symbols should be used as a tool to bring about changes in one's own life and actions, much like a sigil in Magick. But that can't happen unless there is a personalized understanding of every symbol, lesson and allegory in the ritual and the Craft.

AM I have absolutely no idea what you are playing at, except maybe a word game of semantics...

This is the definition of interpretation...

Interpretation : The action of explaining the meaning of something.

Which is synonymous with explanation and elucidation...

Don't tell me you don't know what a synonym is...

I think AM and I are actually saying the same thing, but in different ways.

Let's use an example.

The ritual says:

"The square teaches us morality, the level equality, and the plumb rule, justness and uprightness in life and actions."

That's it. Their meaning is simple and clear as day...

However, it is up to each Mason to understand for themselves the relevance and meaning of morality, equality and justness and uprightness in their own daily lives and actions.

VeritasAequitas
All of which is highly irrelevant.

Totally relevant. Opinion is opinion and nothing more. What is immutable is the ritual, its continuity and how it is explained in the degrees.

You have as of yet, failed to reasonably explain why at least three notable masons, one of which restructured the rituals, seemed to think these symbols meant the same thing.

You want me to explain why people have an opinion? What an utterly asinine proposition.

Your explanation you keep banging about is based on the interpretation of another is it not?

It is the agreed upon explanation that has been codified into the ritual. You would know this if you actually were a Mason.

So what makes one interpretation or explanation superior to another? Can they not mean both?

The explanation that is taught in the Lodge is the one that supersedes all others as that is ones first encounter with the symbols and their usage in Masonry. They can mean lime Jell-O to you for all I care.

Which in that case WHAT THE # ARE YOU GOING ON ABOUT?

Getting a little pissy with the language? Grow up.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


Dude...I'm getting irritated with your almost feigned ignorance...

Interpretation is synonymous with explanation, and I just posted the definition of it.

So in reality it should read...

An Explanation of Masonic Symbols...

VeritasAequitas
AM I have absolutely no idea what you are playing at...

I can tell you exactly why you have no idea what I am playing at. Because you have not participated in the Degrees and are only throwing your, and other person's, opinions around in an attempt to sound knowledgeable and educated in something which you have only superficial knowledge and education regarding.

These symbols and their meaning are clearly and concisely explained, along with all the other symbols, to the candidates during the degrees. If the choose to give them further meaning that is their prerogative, as have the Masons you cited, this does not however make their personal interpretation of them any more valid or correct than the initial explanation given in the degrees.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

AM I have absolutely no idea what you are playing at, except maybe a word game of semantics...

This is the definition of interpretation...


Interpretation : The action of explaining the meaning of something.


Which is synonymous with explanation and elucidation...

Don't tell me you don't know what a synonym is...

Quoted in case you somehow overlooked it in your haste to draw out a meaningless argument...

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


Or yeah totally cherry pick your responses when I just pointed out you are the only one with asinine remarks in this forum...

Once again interpretation and explanation are synonymous, and the definition of interpretation means to explain the meaning of something...

Honestly, and you told me to grow up because I'm trying to point out how ridiculous your assertions of how 'interpretation' gives it any less value than your explanation...

VeritasAequitas
Dude...I'm getting irritated with your almost feigned ignorance...

Who cares?

Interpretation is synonymous with explanation, and I just posted the definition of it.

So in reality it should read...

An Explanation of Masonic Symbols...

Which for the slow witted is his personal explanation of the symbols.

Still waiting for you to post a scan of your ritual cipher or monitor supporting your point.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


Replace personal with esoteric and you might be right...After all you can't cast pearls before swine can you? However, I'm not bound by the same laws you are...

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

Which for the slow witted is his personal explanation of the symbols.

This is the only opinion I've actually seen as of yet...

The point is both interpretations are correct, and both are explanations...

VeritasAequitas
Once again interpretation and explanation are synonymous, and the definition of interpretation means to explain the meaning of something...

The ritual explains the symbols, the individual interprets them as they choose.

Honestly, and you told me to grow up because I'm trying to point out how ridiculous your assertions of how 'interpretation' gives it any less value than your explanation...

I told you to grow up for your juvenile use of vulgarity.

VeritasAequitas
This is the only opinion I've actually seen as of yet...

Exactly. If you actually were in Lodge you would have had them explained to you.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

I told you to grow up for your juvenile use of vulgarity.

I'm sorry, did it hurt your virgin eyes? Maturity goes both ways, and I'm sure you aren't as innocent...

AugustusMasonicus

The ritual explains the symbols, the individual interprets them as they choose.

You've hit the nail on the head. This is what I've been meaning to say all along.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

The ritual explains the symbols, the individual interprets them as they choose.

There you go twisting facts to suit theories, rather than theories to suit facts...

The definitions of explanation and interpretation have been provided and are non-negotiable. However, forgive me for having my own unique perspective of your obviously non-dogmatic society huh?

VeritasAequitas
I'm sorry, did it hurt your virgin eyes? Maturity goes both ways, and I'm sure you aren't as innocent...

I think I have made my point on this forum without ever resorting to vulgarity. But if you feel that is the way you need to convey your thoughts then have at it.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


I have very little patience for feigned ignorance, my apologies...

However, to end this little debacle, what do the compass and square mean to you?

You guys crack me up though...On one hand you are all about how Freemasons don't have secrets and anybody can look up their materials, yet when they do, you claim they can't possibly know anything about it or have a legitimate opinion because they aren't a mason...Pfft..

VeritasAequitas
There you go twisting facts to suit theories, rather than theories to suit facts...

Nothing is twisted. I posted the exact explanation of the Square and Compasses (as has muzzleflash). You, in all of your infinite Masonic knowledge obtained in your years of Masonic travels has opted to cite opinion in place of what is taught to every candidate.

The definitions of explanation and interpretation have been provided and are non-negotiable. However, forgive me for having my own unique perspective of your obviously non-dogmatic society huh?

I am not interested in your opinion, only that you do not attempt to portray it is fact, as you did on page one, which it certainly is not.