The Tea Party...Why are they so Dangerous?

reply to post by Dianec

Why would the US be broke if we did not have a deficit?

Terms are important here. Having a deficit is a bit different than intentionally having deficit spending. Having a deficit implies you budgeted for X amount and came up short. Having intentionally deficit spending means that you know you are spending more than you take in but you have means of covering it.

In the this case, the means of covering it is by selling Treasury Bonds. The only reason we can sell these Treasury Bonds is because there is a big demand for them. There is a demand for them because our economy is strong and those buying them know that we have always paid them out. Selling these Treasury bonds due to having a deficit injects extra money into our economy that we would normally not have access to.

Having deficit spending allows us to grow at a faster rate than if we just spent based on our revenues. At this point, if we cut back our spending to under what we collect in our revenues, we have no reason to sell Treasury Bonds, hence no one will invest in us, hence they will invest elsewhere. Plus, we have the problem of having to cut spending to get below our revenue, that is what will really hurt us. Because now not only are we growing...we are shrinking our economy. Everywhere you cut back in government, you decrease our economy. Even if it is closing a National Park...all those employees are now out of work, aren't getting paid and not putting that money back into our economy. Or if you cut a infrastructure project, same thing. Once you start shrinking, it is a death spiral into being broke.

Also - why do you believe people are stupid and in need of a huge government to run their lives?

Because I live in society and I interact with people everyday.

Are you telling me people aren't stupid?

And yes, people need to be told what to do, history has proven this. Are you telling me you would like to live in a country that has no laws and no one to enforce those laws? No official consequences and no formal judicial system to decide if something is a "crime"???

People are stupid...that is just a fact.

AlienScience
People are stupid...that is just a fact.

So sayeth the person.

AlienScience


In the this case, the means of covering it is by selling Treasury Bonds. The only reason we can sell these Treasury Bonds is because there is a big demand for them. There is a demand for them because our economy is strong and those buying them know that we have always paid them out. Selling these Treasury bonds due to having a deficit injects extra money into our economy that we would normally not have access to.

Before leading others into fantasy land we must remind all that much of the 85 billion newly invented each month goes to buy our own treasury bonds which gives the impression that there is a market - that market collapsed in 2008 and has been on life sustaining ventilation ever since then.

Problem for the man in the street is his spending power is steadily declining due the newly invented dollars that never make it to main street.

Federal Reserve invents, gives to banks, banks buy treasuries for coupon value and around and around they go with no end in sight. Only ones making out like bandits are the banks and politicians who delay their virtual hanging another day.

The Tea party wants to end the circle and is therefore very dangerous indeed.

reply to post by whyamIhere


The Tea Party...Why are they so Dangerous?


I would think they are Dangerous to some " People " because the " TRUE " Tea Partist Feverously Believes in the Ideals set on Paper by the Founders of this Nation (The Constitution and the Bill Of Rights ) , and in so many words , they could Easely start a Violent Second American Revolution to Depose our Current Elected Officials in Washington while Still being in the " Boundries Of The Laws Of The Land " in doing so according to those two Documents . That Ability ALONE Makes them a Politicians and Federal Goverment Workers WORST NIGHTMARE if a Forced Goverment Revision should occur in this Country in the Next " 3 Years " .......






i297.photobucket.com...

reply to post by XPLodER



I think a partnership between OWS and the Tea Party might be beneficial.



reply to post by BardingTheBard


I wasn't kidding when I said this stuff was over my head. I don't pretend to have a full grasp of the economic models. But I don't think anyone really does. I know we're in trouble. I know if we continue with this "model" we will collapse. Our economic system is "dynamic", it is "fluid" and results are based on a variety of variables that could change at any time that are not under our control.

We need to start steering this vehicle instead of just starting it and letting it goes where we "plan" on it to go.

It's all good.

beezzer

I think a partnership between OWS and the Tea Party might be beneficial.

This is long but you can see some of OWS might actually agree with the TP. Of course some of them just like to play bongos too.........

AlienScience
reply to post by Dianec

 

Why would the US be broke if we did not have a deficit?

Terms are important here. Having a deficit is a bit different than intentionally having deficit spending. Having a deficit implies you budgeted for X amount and came up short. Having intentionally deficit spending means that you know you are spending more than you take in but you have means of covering it.

In the this case, the means of covering it is by selling Treasury Bonds. The only reason we can sell these Treasury Bonds is because there is a big demand for them. There is a demand for them because our economy is strong and those buying them know that we have always paid them out. Selling these Treasury bonds due to having a deficit injects extra money into our economy that we would normally not have access to.

Having deficit spending allows us to grow at a faster rate than if we just spent based on our revenues. At this point, if we cut back our spending to under what we collect in our revenues, we have no reason to sell Treasury Bonds, hence no one will invest in us, hence they will invest elsewhere. Plus, we have the problem of having to cut spending to get below our revenue, that is what will really hurt us. Because now not only are we growing...we are shrinking our economy. Everywhere you cut back in government, you decrease our economy. Even if it is closing a National Park...all those employees are now out of work, aren't getting paid and not putting that money back into our economy. Or if you cut a infrastructure project, same thing. Once you start shrinking, it is a death spiral into being broke.

Also - why do you believe people are stupid and in need of a huge government to run their lives?

Because I live in society and I interact with people everyday.

Are you telling me people aren't stupid?

And yes, people need to be told what to do, history has proven this. Are you telling me you would like to live in a country that has no laws and no one to enforce those laws? No official consequences and no formal judicial system to decide if something is a "crime"???

People are stupid...that is just a fact.

I watched the video and you explain it well (thanks for taking the time).

In this video we are leaving this debt to our children - substantiated. Inflation also increases when more money in pumped into the economy. Nothing is backed by anything but Monopoly money. Is an illegal monetary system our forefathers did not want.

So what your saying is the tea party wants to reduce debt because it would mean less inflation, not overwhelm our children one day, and because it is all a bunch of IOU's paid with our sweat so this is bad? Or are you saying what I think you are - that they probably want to do all of those things but don't realize they would need to restructure the entire system - not just stop spending?

And yes - people are so stupid sometimes - very few know how to think for themselves anymore. Very few. Drives me nuts. But are you saying the tea party wants to do away with government altogether or just make government smaller? I've never heard that they intend to send it on its way. Rather it's my understanding they want to reduce their size, and effectively reduce their power over the people so the people have a voice.

I really don't know much about this party but I like their ideas. It doesn't mean they are perfectly thought out ideas but the overall theme seems to be in line with what the government was meant to be. If these are average citizens without a lot of political background maybe these ideas just need to be refined a bit more by those who can lend their own expert advice. Or maybe they do know what they are talking about but use laymen terms the public can understand - reduce debt really means restructure and make it legal.

reply to post by beezzer


Bottom Line Mr. Beez , in Order to Once Again have " Peace Of Mind " , we just gotta get Rid of the Chokin' " Yoke " of Da Man Right Now , or Else in the Future , Techo Slavery fermented in the Minds of the Corporate Elites Awaits US All .........

Zanti Misfit
reply to post by beezzer

 

Bottom Line Mr. Beez , in Order to Once Again have " Peace Of Mind " , we just gotta get Rid of the Chokin' " Yoke " of Da Man Right Now , or Else in the Future , Techo Slavery fermented in the Minds of the Corporate Elites Awaits US All .........

edit on 18-10-2013 by Zanti Misfit because: (no reason given)

Word.

reply to post by beezzer


" Word. "


To your Momma , Hell Yeah ! .......;0

BardingTheBard

AlienScience
People are stupid...that is just a fact.

So sayeth the person.

edit on 18-10-2013 by BardingTheBard because:

Absolutely. I've done stupid things in my life, more so in my youth than in adulthood...but I'm not immune to my own declaration.

Can you say you have never done something stupid? Can you say that everyone that you know are smart individuals that make perfect choices all the time?

reply to post by TKDRL


You are so right is not funny, the richest in the nation are only on the top 1% of the population, because the US is it is not, no when more than half of the working poor are on some type of welfare.

That is how the filthy wealthy likes it, or what I call the corporate dictatorship, that has been able to get hold of the working class thanks to the whores in congress that sell themselves and their constituents for anything this days, the rich gets richer while keeping the working poor class in a welfare state, meanwhile as long as the taxable productive class pays enough for them to keep the scam they run with the markets, to show how good the US economy is.

But in reality the only ones profiting in this nation are those at the very top. the rest of the population are nothing but milking cows, that if they are within the working productive class, because we know were is the rest, in the welfare class.

AlienScience
Absolutely. I've done stupid things in my life, more so in my youth than in adulthood...but I'm not immune to my own declaration.

Can you say you have never done something stupid? Can you say that everyone that you know are smart individuals that make perfect choices all the time?

Of course I've seen plenty of people make "bad" choices, and I've made plenty myself.

If I go making the decisions for them they will never learn or grow. Almost everything *good* about my wisdom I have now came about from making a mistake and learning from it.

The person who thinks they are in any position to "tell stupid people what to do" is the stupidest and least wise of them all and hasn't learned one of the most fundamental lessons in life that exists.

buster2010
The TP people themselves are not dangerous. The reason why some people think they are dangerous is because of the nutcases they vote into office.

And to the T-Party people there is nothing more dangerous and nuttier than liberal democrats and socialist progressives who steal hard working people's money to spread the wealth around to those who will not work, illegal aliens, and personal pet projects. The T-Party people are the adults in the room.

reply to post by marg6043


" That is how the filthy wealthy likes it, or what I call the corporate dictatorship,......"



That is the Core to All of the " Common Man's " Problems Today . Fully Armed Revolution Is the Likely Response by some to this Type of Tyranny by the Way ........

reply to post by Zanti Misfit


America doesn't have a back bone anymore and when people like the TEA Party emerge and want to make a statement it gets hijacked by those that wants to keep the control and status Quo the way it is.

That is why I no longer follow the TEA party, once the money comes from interest groups Is no longer a group of we the people now is a tool.

beezzer
We need to start steering this vehicle instead of just starting it and letting it goes where we "plan" on it to go.

A good start would be to re-learn how to drive our local vehicles before we go caring much about the national one. Part of the reason we're here is because we spend more time talking about a president who will never think once about us than we do our local city council who make decisions affecting us directly every day.

That way no matter what happens on a national level... the local community is fully capable of taking care of itself outside of tanks rolling through the streets.

As the local situations are re-taken control of... it will naturally percolate up to the "top".

Though we may find we don't need nearly as much of the "top" as we currently have and they will die on the vine since what they used to do is now being handled much better and appropriately for each area's local needs.

Phoenix

AlienScience


In the this case, the means of covering it is by selling Treasury Bonds. The only reason we can sell these Treasury Bonds is because there is a big demand for them. There is a demand for them because our economy is strong and those buying them know that we have always paid them out. Selling these Treasury bonds due to having a deficit injects extra money into our economy that we would normally not have access to.

Before leading others into fantasy land we must remind all that much of the 85 billion newly invented each month goes to buy our own treasury bonds which gives the impression that there is a market - that market collapsed in 2008 and has been on life sustaining ventilation ever since then.

Problem for the man in the street is his spending power is steadily declining due the newly invented dollars that never make it to main street.

Federal Reserve invents, gives to banks, banks buy treasuries for coupon value and around and around they go with no end in sight. Only ones making out like bandits are the banks and politicians who delay their virtual hanging another day.

The Tea party wants to end the circle and is therefore very dangerous indeed.

edit on 18-10-2013 by Phoenix because: (no reason given)

I quoted your whole reply since it provides a good way to visualize the stuff between both you and alien science (building on each others input). It is clear our current system is extremely dangerous to the future of this country - especially if it is feeding the people who control it the equivalent of heroine on a daily basis. Money is obviously addictive if you have it along with everything a human being could possibly desire.

They have
*The very best protection (for selves and loved ones).
*Freedom from rules and limits on what you can/cannot have (they don't have to ask or grovel).
*Power - people waiting on you hand and foot. People bowing to your every need; glory, prestige, luxury.
*Completely absent of financial worries for self and family.
*The very best home with all expenses paid. No need to turn the heat down at night or the like.
*The best medical care - no waiting an hour for you.
*Best in food, entertainment, travel, and accommodations.
*Self actualization - get to be the most they can be because all power has been given to them to play with.
*The assurance their family will be taken care of for a very long time. Jackie Kennedy stated she did not know how she would make it after her husband was assassinated, and went onto marry Onassis.
I trust she would have been just fine though. Because of the name and a familily members position as president - I would say ones family is set to achieve anything they also set out to do (morality is in place).

The only thing they cannot have that others may is a good relationship with their loved ones and
being adored by the masses. But...they will always be adored because of those who place them on a pedestal.

I'm not sure I got everything above but my point is - who would not work to secure their position with all in their power (even if that meant corruption) if they had every human need and desire fullfilled? I don't think many would pass the test. I believe there are some who would have the mindfulness to say it is enough - I'm secure and so is my family so now lets stop with the wanting more. For those who never stop wanting more - we get what you describe - allowing everyone else's kids' future to be at risk because it is never enough.

Dianec
[

Also - why do you believe people are stupid and in need of a huge government to run their lives?

Genuinely curious - not rhetorical questions.

For one reason, mob rule. It is thereason why the idea of a true democracy would fail.
For another reason, there is just too much information for the average person to handle in our day to day lives. As our society becomes more complex, so too does the management of the society. That's not to say that there are areas where government oversteps its bound; however, the average citizen is just not equipped to make an informed decision on policy matters. (Also, there is a reason Fox and MSNBC designed a business model that targets a specific demographic of citizens based on political leanings. People are going to tune in for like minded commentary and regurgitate the same platforms with the same position. They cannot relate or conceptualize the other side of the argument.)

This is where the current Tea Party has replaced the Neo-Cons. They use targeted language like "principles" to gain support from their activist base, which is the driving force in primary's in "safe" districts. They use that to retain their seat and don't do their job, which is to actually sit down and try to solve problems and compromise, because who wants a politician to compromise on their "principles"

And really its not the lack of term limits, career politicians or the 2 party system we have in place that is causing congress to fail, rather it is this new generation of politicians and political pandering for the cameras (of which the current tea party is serving as the poster boy)

The tea party is dangerous as hell...

Just like the women's rights movement was dangerous.

Just like desegregation was dangerous.

Just like the Occupy movement was dangerous.

Just like ending slavery was dangerous.

Just like gay marriage is dangerous.

Change is dangerous and it challenges the system. This cannot be tolerated in a free and open society. To prevent this change from happening, your government will feed you these code phrases, through your favorite left OR right wing media source, to parrot ad nauseum on internet forums:

Ron Paul is crazy. No reason. He just is.

The tea party are just fanatical republicans. Which is why the GOP *loves* them sooo much.

The Occupy movement had no clear message.

The second amendment is outdated. Who needs guns anyway?

We in the government thank you for your blind and unrelenting obedience in preventing change in the current system. For your obedience, we would like to reward you with the TSA at your airports, the
NSA reading your emails and phone transcripts, and representatives who won't represent you.

All glory to the US government, the current system, and the powers that be.