What is so scary about thinking, or discovering, your Religion is false?

FlyersFan

Bone75
Oh please, what makes you think Christians are scared of anything?

Does it frighten you to know that Moses didn't get the 10 Commandments from the Hand of God?
Information Here

Does it frighten you to know that the Abraham folklore is totally unreliable?
Information Here

Does it frighten you to know that the Jews were never slaves in Egypt and the Exodus didn't happen?
Does it frighten you to know that Adam and Eve didn't exist? Or Noahs Ark either?

I've read all of the information you have provided, and have found many discrepancies in the Bible without the help of a preaching atheist... yet I still believe. Does that frighten you?

reply to post by wildtimes

If you don't open up, the discussion becomes shallow. The religious experience is an acutely personal one, for everybody.

thats your opinion. Yes religious experience is personal but religion(Islam) is just partly a personal experience. There's a big part that is objective and i am talking about this part.
Your own experience about religions is the way it is because people and society around you are generally christian or have a christian mentality.
Say the idea of Loving God that has been hammered in the society for millennia now. If you have that sole idea then the ideas that you build upon it seem reasonable and it also seems reasonable to reject ideas that portray God as anything but Lovin. But what if God is more than just Loving? Then things change. Right?

reply to post by wildtimes

and honest compassion and empathy is an inborn trait. People commit real evil because of circumstances that have corrupted their innate sense of morality. RELIGION DOES NOT CAUSE MORALITY.

I never said it "CAUSES". I said it corrects and helps to preserve. Its like a tug-of-war between morality and immorality. Without a pull towards morality that religion provides, the society would slowly drift towards immorality many times without even realising it and so even defending it.

Bone75
I've read all of the information you have provided, and have found many discrepancies in the Bible without the help of a preaching atheist... yet I still believe. Does that frighten you?

1 - I'm not an atheist.
2 - I'm not preaching. I'm providing facts.
3 - If you wish to believe that folklore and myths which have been proven not to have happened are instead actually literal history .. knock yourself out. Enjoy yourself. .... whatever.
4 - Why would it frighten me that you want to believe in that which has been proven not to have happened? I find it sad. But stupidity only becomes threatening when it invades my space. And right now .. you aren't.

reply to post by logical7

I never said it "CAUSES". I said it corrects and helps to preserve. Its like a tug-of-war between morality and immorality. Without a pull towards morality that religion provides, the society would slowly drift towards immorality many times without even realising it and so even defending it.

Because being civilized means we no longer have to fight to live. Oh wait, I guess that means half the world isn't civilized, because WE'RE STILL KILLING EACH OTHER.

Keep your religion for a time when half the world isn't wanting to stomp on the other half for having a difference in opinion. In all honesty, it's so much more pathetic when we're killing for a god rather than for food. Sometimes, I hate the human species. Because it's an oxymoron. Smartest species on the planet, kills for fun, still believes it is special and deserves to run everything.

reply to post by logical7

thats your opinion.

It's my professional KNOWLEDGE.

Yes religious experience is personal but religion(Islam) is just partly a personal experience. There's a big part that is objective and i am talking about this part.

It's just as impossible for you to be objective in your religious beliefs as you accuse me of being.
YOU are NOT above self-inquiry.

Your own experience about religions is the way it is because people and society around you are generally christian or have a christian mentality.

This is an incredible assumption.

Say the idea of Loving God that has been hammered in the society for millennia now.

But it's not: the 'God' that has been hammered into Society is ONE entity: a vengeful, ugly, jealous, immature tyrannical PERSON.

AND THAT IS A LIE. GOD IS NOT A PERSON. WE ARE ALL PART OF GOD, and so is EVERYTHING we see.

It's PEOPLE who have those traits. The era we are just entering into will rise ABOVE all that; and the study of NDEs is just the beginning. NDEs are more and more common because of medical technological advancements; but medical technology is not the ONLY thing that results in NDEs. (Mellen-Thomas Benedict is a living example of an extensive NDE that was fully conscious, and completely WITHOUT medical 'interference' or 'assistance.')

If you have that sole idea then the ideas that you build upon it seem reasonable and it also seems reasonable to reject ideas that portray God as anything but Lovin.

But what if God is more than just Loving? Then things change. Right?

If God is the ASSHOLE that your religion promotes, and does "send people to burn in Hell for eternity", then I want nothing to do with him anyway, and I won't follow his stupid rules. Because they are asinine, juvenile, and morally CORRUPT.

HUMANITY in general knows how we are supposed to behave. All that matters is compassion. God IS "Love."

God IS manifest in the LOVE that we see around us, that we experience when we become parents, when we 'feel' for others. The horrors of those who do not love, but who intend to harm, are an aspect of God that will DIE AWAY. Those who practice those horrific behaviors will reincarnate, again and again, until they figure it out.

CORRECTION, not PUNISHMENT.

reply to post by logical7

I never said it "CAUSES". I said it corrects and helps to preserve.

If I recall accurately, you started a thread on "morality" and how religion is "necessary" for it to occur. But I'll check back and then point it out to you.

Oh yeah, here it is. It was inspired by another discussion we were 'having'.
Why should immoral people change?

reply to post by wildtimes


You are wasting your time. This brick wall is one that will not move no matter how many languages you speak or metaphors you can think of for convincing it to see things your way.

And no, I'm not the brick wall. I know some here are easily confused, so I'll make that clear. Those keeping up with the conversation I am responding to will know what's going on and what I'm saying.

reply to post by Eryiedes


You misunderstand. The idea of the "flock" involves the notion of authentic leadership on Jesus' part yes as "the Good Shepherd", but it doesn't involve the loss of will, to the contrary, the absolute liberation of Christ as the gateway access point to the resurrection life or "new pasture" relative to which the sheep are free to freely come and go. As such it points to a type of evolutionary growth principal relative to a domain of unconstrained and unfettered freedom as well as new life even from life to life in eternity with God.

Best Regards,

NAM

reply to post by NewAgeMan


Oh, I get it.
You actually believe I haven't heard that line before don't you?

-Amitaba-

reply to post by AfterInfinity

In all honesty,
it's so much more pathetic when we're
killing for a god rather than for food.

Actually the killings are happening for food(resources). To accuire more and to control it. Mahatma Gandhi said, "there's enough to satisfy everyone's need but not everyone's greed"
it is difficult to sustain a culture and a "civilization" that as a whole indulges in over consumption and resorts to plundering and calling these acts by fancy names to fool its own people, majority of whom willingly accept it because they refuse to alter their unsustainable lifestyle.

reply to post by logical7

Without a pull towards morality that religion provides, the society would slowly drift towards immorality many times without even realising it and so even defending it.

I wholeheartedly DISAGREE with this premise. People don't need to be threatened with hell to figure out what the right things to do are.

You demonizing 'secular' humanity is quite....well......unrealistic. And tiresome.

wildtimes
People don't need to be threatened with hell to figure out what the right things to do are.

The people flying airplanes into buildings and shooting up shopping malls and blowing up schools because girls are learning to read, etc etc .... they are all afraid of hell and yet they do these evil things anyways. The threat of hell doesn't stop some people from doing evil ... it actually seems to accelerate it in some folks. They think they can get out of hell by doing evil things and pretend that they are good.

reply to post by logical7

Actually the killings are happening for food(resources). To accuire more and to control it.

EDIT: NO, the killings are happening for RELIGIOUS reasons. If the Islamists would stop shooting little girls like Malala, and stop suicide-bombing restaurants and markets, and stop acting like douchebags....things would ease up A LOT.

Mahatma Gandhi said, "there's enough to satisfy everyone's need but not everyone's greed"

This, at least, is correct.
Ghandi was RIGHT. There is enough NOW, as you yourself have said, to feed everyone, to clothe everyone, to house them.

Greed is a huge problem, and I have never disputed that. But you keep saying that "secular society" is all about greed...and that IS A LIE.

MOST of the population of 'the [Evil] West' are content with what they have. Yes, there are TYRANTS (like your view of 'God'), evildoers, power-mongers, etc.

The other day I watched an interesting interview with Sufi teacher Llewellyn Vaughan-Lee. He makes perfect sense.

Are you opposed to "Sufi" wisdom? Do you actually think that 'Christians' are not aligned with his thinking?

Eryiedes
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

Oh, I get it.
You actually believe I haven't heard that line before don't you?

-Amitaba-

What you call "a line" has been my actual experience, and there is indeed a domain of absolute liberation of which we had no prior frame of reference or experience, it's real and it exists but there are probably few who've caught a glimpse of what it's like through the gateway.

The tricky part is to retain the freedom to freely come and go, without getting totally sucked back into a false reality and worldview well populated by those cynics who have nothing to offer but snide remarks and catcalls from the stands, while the immense field of unexplored possibility stretches itself out before them, unexplored even unseen.

It wasn't just a "line", it's the knowledge of a personal experience and something with which Jesus was obviously intimately familiar and understood clearly.

Btw, there's no need to be rude or willfully ignorant and no need to just assume because to you, clearly, the knowledge resides in the realm of an unknown unknown or what you don't even know you don't know.

reply to post by wildtimes

Are you opposed to "Sufi" wisdom? Do you actually think that 'Christians' are not aligned with his thinking?

Corporeal nirvana is not in keeping with "for we are all sinners and fall short of the glory of God".

reply to post by NewAgeMan


I have this strange idea that "absolute liberation" is the cessation of regard for any and all things. You exist. You need do nothing else but exist. You are free from obligations, both natural and societal, and your inclinations start and end with existing. End of story.

With that in mind, I'm also struck with the strange notion that "absolute liberation" is right up there with "passive suicide".

Looks like a demonic spirit is leading you astray to be a cynic and hence be lost forever.
They are called flock because, they worship in Spirit and in Truth and besides, they do
think independently and have a mind of their own

This is EXACTLY the sort of ignorant piffle I speak about.

"How dare you make light of the lamb of God? You MUST be pocessed by a demon!!!"

If knowing I have been lied to makes me "lost" do you want to hazard a guess what that makes you?
You suffer from religious double think and are a greater threat to rationallity and freedom than a whole plane load of suicide bombers.
You pocess the identical "mistaken" abused mentality.
You peddle your poison and pretend it's the truth just like Jim Jones...but I won't be drinking your tainted kool-aid. Not today or any other.
And if you don't like that?
Too bad...you'll just have to forgive me anyways.

-Amitaba-

reply to post by AfterInfinity

"for we are all sinners and fall short of the glory of God".

GHA!!!

No, we aren't. We aren't born in 'original sin'.....I know you know this, and yes, I GET the sarcasm.

Interesting interview, though. Search youtube under the guy's name, and you'll find plenty of vids re him.

wildtimes
reply to post by logical7

 

I never said it "CAUSES". I said it corrects and helps to preserve.

If I recall accurately, you started a thread on "morality" and how religion is "necessary" for it to occur. But I'll check back and then point it out to you.

Oh yeah, here it is. It was inspired by another discussion we were 'having'.
Why should immoral people change?

edit on 10/24/13 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)

i don't know if you have the time to read the thread to know my view.
I do remember telling you that in Islam the principle is that a child is born on his/her "fitrah"(natural tendancy/natural morality) its the upbringing that may corrupt it or preserve it. So i agree with you on this. Do you agree with me that if a individual/society have become immoral they would need an external unbiased correction to go back to morality?