Bob Dean is a liar

reply to post by coastlinekid

when it comes to this subject maybe he was fed disinfo along the way... It is up to us to sift thru and not dismiss his whole story...imo...

It would seem to me that sifting would be his job. You know, before he starts spreading it around? That is, if he isn't just making it up himself.

reply to post by Phage


This subject has a microscope on it 24/7...
This guy was old school...
His sifter may have gotten clogged occasionally...

I feel there may be kernels of truth with this guy... imo

reply to post by schuyler


So he joins the Korean war. His entire company and commander was KIA. He assumes that role. Works and finishes out his 6 years and was ranked higher to First LT during that time. Then there is a RIF (Reduction In Force) and he was not allowed to keep his commission rank and was reduced to SFC Then he re-enlisted & worked up the chain again to CSM. I don't see what the big deal is.

That doesn't surprise me. Some of these so called experts are nothing more than attention whores. I saw an interview with John Lear where he claimed that his life had never been threatened. Then in an interview with Project Camelot claimed that yes indeed his life had been threatened as well as that of his whole family. It's easy to get confused when you lie.

sean
reply to post by schuyler

 

So he joins the Korean war. His entire company and commander was KIA. He assumes that role. Works and finishes out his 6 years and was ranked higher to First LT during that time. Then there is a RIF (Reduction In Force) and he was not allowed to keep his commission rank and was reduced to SFC Then he re-enlisted & worked up the chain again to CSM. I don't see what the big deal is.

The deal is whether it really happened. For an officer to "lose his commission" is rather unusual. You either have it or you don't. For someone to agree to such a move is even more unusual. Or do you think we simply ought to accept what anyone says at face value? I'm not saying it did not happen. But it would be nice finding a source other than Dean himself to prove it did happen, and right our "proof" is what Dean has said. There is no corroborating evidence. The "research" consists of someone here quoting from a book where the author sat down with Dean at dinner at his house where he had been several times and interviewed him.

And we have an answer from the National Archives. I sent them their standard form and outlines Dean's service branch, time, and full name. I (of course) could not supply his social security number. Their answer follows:

We have been unsuccessful in identifying a military service record for the above-named individual. This does not mean the subject did not have military service, only that we were unable to identify a record based on the limited information you have provided. To locate a service record, we must have the veteran's complete name, service number (if applicable), social security number, branch of service, and approximate dates of service.

Full Name: DEAN, Robert Orvel -- Check
Service number: unknown, these days it is the ss#
Social security number: unknown
Branch of service: Army -- Check
Approximate dates of service: -- Check, including year of retirement

So basically the National Archives is saying their database does not have a last name index. Or perhaps there were so many Robert Orvel Deans serving during this time period that are unable to distinguish one from another.

Result: Inconclusive.

schuyler

The deal is whether it really happened. For an officer to "lose his commission" is rather unusual. You either have it or you don't. For someone to agree to such a move is even more unusual. Or do you think we simply ought to accept what anyone says at face value? I'm not saying it did not happen. But it would be nice finding a source other than Dean himself to prove it did happen, and right our "proof" is what Dean has said. There is no corroborating evidence. The "research" consists of someone here quoting from a book where the author sat down with Dean at dinner at his house where he had been several times and interviewed him.

Search out the 'stolen valor' websites to see the easy instructions to write to the military records archives for basic military service records. All you need is the guy's name and date of birth -- service number would be better, if available. I've done it a number of times for credentials-falsifiers like Hoagland's 'NASA source' Ken Johnston, it takes several weeks to get an answer.

FlyingTeacup
In this interview he claims that he was a Lieutenant in the U.S. Army. Not once but three times. At 11:09, 12:43 and 13:18 he says he was a Lieutenant in Korea.

This is an early video, it's one of the first Camelot videos that interviews Bob Dean, it was made before Project Camelot turned Bob Dean into the "super star" that he has become and that he brags about. So he probably thought that this was a one off event and that nobody would watch this and that nobody would notice.

It's pretty well established (by Bob Dean) that Bob Dean held the rank of Command Sergeant Major which Bob Dean or his interviewers laborously remind the public.

This first interview he claims that he was an officer, a Lieutenant. Why lie about your rank in the military like that? Clearly Bob Dean is a liar and a fraud.

Here is Bill Ryan, Steve Bassett and everybody making a big deal that Bob Dean is a Command Sergeant Major. At 5:37

I thought that was his claimed position after when he joined the UN, Command Sargent Major.

He claimed he was a lieutenant in the US army and Command Sargent Major in the UN, if memory serves me well.

Haven't heard or seen of any this geezers crap for a while now so I could be wrong.

Project Camelot is a way to fry your brain without any substance abuse,

Dean seems a victim of the slippery slope ... and the usual human foibles. Once the patina of normalcy is pierced and the possibility of "alien intelligence" hanging around our spherical petri dish is processed, crazy can follow.

Semi- star status on the c list of ufology celebrity presents a nearly infinite opportunity for a whole lot of regrettable statements and a false sense of importance for an average idiot.

He did probably see a document about aliens once, though. Even pompous, self important cranks can see the occasional secret document.. and he's just a schlub trying to figure it out like everyone else... pony tail and all.

JimOberg

schuyler

The deal is whether it really happened. For an officer to "lose his commission" is rather unusual. You either have it or you don't. For someone to agree to such a move is even more unusual. Or do you think we simply ought to accept what anyone says at face value? I'm not saying it did not happen. But it would be nice finding a source other than Dean himself to prove it did happen, and right our "proof" is what Dean has said. There is no corroborating evidence. The "research" consists of someone here quoting from a book where the author sat down with Dean at dinner at his house where he had been several times and interviewed him.

Search out the 'stolen valor' websites to see the easy instructions to write to the military records archives for basic military service records. All you need is the guy's name and date of birth -- service number would be better, if available. I've done it a number of times for credentials-falsifiers like Hoagland's 'NASA source' Ken Johnston, it takes several weeks to get an answer.

What do you think I just did, Jim? Precisely that. I got a letter from the National Archives. If you guys want me to scan it and post it, I'll do that.

InhaleExhale
I thought that was his claimed position after when he joined the UN, Command Sargent Major.

He claimed he was a lieutenant in the US army and Command Sargent Major in the UN, if memory serves me well.

No. As has been stated several times previously in this thread, Dean claims to have been a Lieutenant and then, due to a reduction in forces and his lack of a college degree, was offered enlisted status, where he stayed for many years and rose to E-9, Sergeant Major. "Command" Sergeant Major is a position much like the "Chief of the Boat" in the Navy, who is still a Master chief (E-9), but represents all enlisted men to the commanding officer. There are many "Command Sergeant Majors" in the Army, and only the "Sergeant Major of the Army," a single enlisted position, outranks them.

There is no such thing as a "UN Command Sergeant Major" Furthermore, there has never been a dispute that Dean was one. The point of confusion that started this thread was the claim that Dean was a lieutenant BEFORE he was a sergeant. Since that is unusual, the OP claims Dean is a liar. Other people claim he is not, but their source for that claim is Dean himself.

After all the rhetoric died down ("Dean is a liar!" "No, he isn't!") we have simply tried to find independent corroboration that this unusual set of events happened. We already know Dean says it happened. Pointing out that Dean says it happened doesn't do us much good, so I attempted to contact the National Archives, which even has a form expressly for this purpose. It took them little more than a week to reply, which is kind of surprising for a bureaucracy that large, but there we have it.

They have been unable to locate Dean's record(s) of service, ostensibly because I did not provide sufficient information such as a social security number and "service number," which during Dean's tenure was different than the social security number.

Now, this whole situation shows up a conflict between "freedom of information" and "privacy." It's unlikely I could get Dean's social security number and if I did, that would be a clear violation of his privacy. So unless he volunteers it, or someone snoops around, it's not going to happen. Now the National Archives is claiming they can't find it BECAUSE I did not provide the relevant numbers.

To believe this you have to believe that the database that holds this information does not have a "name index." I've worked around large databases my entire career (in library card registration systems) and the first thing you do is construct a name index and a library card number index. These are no-brainers. No one knows his library card number, so when they show up and say, "I forgot my card." you have to look them up--by name. In every system I have seen the name is a "field" and any field can be indexed. It is simply inconceivable that a system would be developed that did not include a name index.

But that begs the question. is there one? I also do not know the state of the National Archives, which has records that go back prior to WW II. Obviously, computers didn't exist back then. The records were manual. If they have done no retrospective conversions of the data, they may still be manual, filed by service number, and this accounts for their inability to find the records.

My own suspicion here is that the National Archives consider these FOIA requests a nuisance, and they simply don't try very hard. They are required by law to try, but they are not required to be successful. If they type in "Dean, Robert Orvel" and it comes back with "0 hits" they just stop right there. Ten seconds tops, push a button for an automatic form letter. Done. Nobody actually gets up and spends 10-15 minutes to search the archives. It's a daily task to answer these things as fast as you can and move along to more important things. If the DoD or the FBI asked the same question, they'd do what is necessary to find the records, but for someone like me, whose reason for asking was listed as "historical research," it's simply not important enough for them to exert much effort.

Hence the conclusion: Inconclusive.

At least I tried to get the data instead of just argue an opinion.

Icke isn't in the same boat as the others you mentioned. He has some good info in my opinion.

He is not in the same boat. He has a cruise ship of his own.

Of course he has good info, because he's a plant or disinformant of some kind, a shill or something, as far as I can tell.

He also has extremely bad info.

I started reading his book with an open mind, hadn't formed any opinion of him, I knew about the reptile-theory, but I was willing to put it aside and just familiarize myself with whatever ELSE he had to say.

After reading about 20 pages or so, I had bumped into SO many falsehoods, misconceptions, lies, misinformations, stupidities, awful theories that have nothing to do with reality, etc. that I couldn't take it anymore.

Based on that experience, and what I have later seen/heard him say, I'd say he has a lot of knowledge/information, but is definitely either crazy, or deliberately muddying the waters with lies and disinformation.

The crazy reptile theory doesn't even enter into it, although it deserves all the eyerolling it can get. Someone watched a bit too much "V" in the eighties and decided it was a documentary, it looks like.

Icke is very icky to me, and I suggest you research more before forming a solid opinion of him, if you really think he is not part of either the 'crazy gang of loonies' or 'disinformant pack of evil agents'.

How bout Richard Dolan? Stanton Friedman ?
James Gilliland. Man poor James got UFOs everywhere! Some kind of door there huh? He's rewally laid back.

More NCOs transition from NCO to Officers than vice-versa, but it is not as unusual to surrender a commission and enter the NCO career track as some in the thread seem to think. I had an uncle that entered the marines with a college degree and a commission as a Lt., only to surrender his commission to become a Warrant Officer. He transitioned to being a helicopter pilot, not sure if the shift to the NCO career track had anything to do with his change of specialty, but reading up on Warrant Officer rank, it seems likely.

He earned his pension as a career pilot and then transitioned to being a Major, and eventually Col., in the Army National Guard.

This link provides a discussion of the subject of a commissioned officer switching to an NCO career path:

www.part-time-commander.com...

The site doesn't allow copy/paste snippets, so please read the article at the link provided.

I'd also remind people that soldiers progress through ranks. Dean being a CMS at the end of his career doesn't mean anything about his ranks/duties at earlier points in his career, other than that his service must have been exemplary.

What I see here is a leap in logic to condemn Dean, based on an uninformed, or intentional, misunderstanding of Military rank, followed by a number of ad hominem attacks on the man, with a few defenders sprinkled here and there through out the discussion. Definitely not an example of what discussion on this site and forum should be. Also consistent with what one would expect from official, or arm chair, "dishonest debunkers" or agents of disinformation.

I don't really mind posts where people politely share their general impression of the veracity of a personality in the field, with some logical reasoning to support their impression, but the ad hominem stuff is way to prevalent and serves none of us well.

It took me five minutes to figure out that a former officer switching to an NCO career track is not at all unheard of. Anyone pouncing on this "discovery" as an opportunity to besmirch the man, rather than look at it as a question for further research to determine if it actually contributes anything meaningful, IMO, isn't adding anything at all productive to the discussion here.

This site tries hard to move hoaxed and bunk support for UFOs to the trash bin, I just wish the "totally bunk debunkery" and "chronic mud-slingers", who live for ad hominem attacks, could go the same route.

Flying Teacup posted on Oct, 11 2013 @ 02:53 PM

GreenShirt Response:
“I cannot speak to Bob Dean’s association with ‘Project Camelot’, but I want to refute FlyingTeacup’s accusation that “Bob Dean is a liar and a fraud.” I am amazed that reasonably intelligent people continue to Blog comments without making an effort to verify the accuracy of their information. Our former military service members, especially those still alive, deserve our deepest respect and gratitude, not ridicule.
I can personally vouch for Bob Dean’s assertion that he was an Army Officer in the Korean Conflict from June 1951 to May 1952, (awarded a Purple Heart and Bronze Star for combat actions near the “Battle of the Punch Bowl” August- September 1951) and as a Command Sargent Major, 6th Army Headquarters, Presidio San Francisco, California, retiring in October, 1976. It’s a matter of Public Record.
Bob Dean had been drafted his Junior year from Indiana University, Bloomington and was commissioned as a 2nd Lt, US Army (Reserve) following Officer Candidate School (OCS), Fort Riley, Kansas in April, 1950. Following the North Korean Army crossing of the 38th Parallel June 1950, he was assigned to Company A, 1st Battalion, 32nd Infantry Regiment, 7th Infantry Division, “The Queen’s Own”.
Harry Truman had initiated a reduction in the Army from 8 million soldiers to fewer than half a million after WWII. Without the intervention of Congress, he would have also eliminated the USMC entirely. Dwight D. Eisenhower following his election in November 1952, decided to shrink the armed forces even further. Ike’s “New Look” national security strategy called for sharp reductions in land and naval forces that remained through the end of his second term. These moves shrank the Army by nearly 40%, saw large cuts in naval forces, and an overall reduction in military personnel from about 3.5 million in early 1953 to 2.5 million by December, 1960.
Our nation has a long history of drawdowns, going back to the American Revolution, which have restructured, repositioned and reduced U.S. military forces after each major conflict, and involve cyclic “layoffs” referred to as Reductions- in- Force (RIF).
1st Lieutenant Dean (USAR) was stationed in Nuremberg, Germany in 1956 when he was caught up in yet another RIF. He was offered an Honorable discharge or a reduction in rank to Sargent 1st Class, and reassignment. With a wife and two children, and no degree, he opted for an enlisted career. He served honorably for another twenty years including assignment at the Supreme Headquarters Allied Powers Europe (SHAPE), Paris, France 1963-1967 and in the Republic of Viet Nam 1970-1971 with the Military Advisory Command, Special Operations Group (MAC V SOG) in Saigon and Long Binh, before his retirement.”

a reply to: ShhMarine

Thank You for venturing on this "nefarious" site for the first time and attempt to spread what you honestly know to be the truth...
I applaud fresh perspectives and encourage you to stick around and put forth your thoughts...

He was first a Lieutenant but could not promote to Captain because he did not have a four year degree. He was given the option to become enlisted and was given the equivelant enlisted rank of a StaffSgt then promoted to SgtMajor. He explains this in a two hour interview not with Project Camelot.

Yeah, it would be nice if Robert Dean would release his DD-214's for all his years of service. I have heard of lots of weird things happening with promotions in the Army and moving from officer to enlisted back in the 1950's so that part is not too hard to believe for me.

Offering him SSGT (E-6) isn't really an equivalent to Captain I would say. Nothing is really an "equivalent". It's just what they offered him and what they thought was fair and he apparently agreed to it. Yes, he was promoted to CSM, but that took probably 10 years to do so. He went from paygrade E-6 to E-9, but you dont jump in an instant from E6 to E9. Just something I felt needed to be clarified here. He went to E7, then E8 and then finally topping out at E9.

Very interesting. I knew Bob personally from 1996-1998 when he lived in Tucson. I am curious how he was selected to go through OCS and be commissioned a 2nd Lt? Because he had some college and the Army needed 2nd Lieutenants really bad at that time? a reply to: ShhMarine

Offering him SSGT (E-6) isn't really an equivalent to Captain I would say. Nothing is really an "equivalent". It's just what they offered him and what they thought was fair and he apparently agreed to it. Yes, he was promoted to CSM, but that took probably 10 years to do so. He went from paygrade E-6 to E-9, but you dont jump in an instant from E6 to E9. Just something I felt needed to be clarified here. He went to E7, then E8 and then finally topping out at E9. a reply to: LinaLove