Gov't shutdown and Chemtrails link???

reply to post by Mikeultra


So you're saying that you would believe a murder happened, because I spilled a drop of red paint on the sidewalk. Because that's about how related your "evidence" is. You have a tracer element released into the subway, proving that those long white lines in the sky are chemicals being sprayed. That's quite a leap for anyone.

Phage
reply to post by Mikeultra

 

The law requires that informed consent be obtained. The law does not say "If we don't tell them about it too bad for them because they didn't protest." If someone is subjected to such testing without consent, they would have full legal recourse.

I still don't understand your point or how it is smoking gun evidence that there are "chemtrails". Go sue the government with all your evidence of "chemtrails" if you think you have a case for illegal testing.

I still don't understand your point in your "finding" of the law (which, btw, has been discussed many times).

edit on 10/14/2013 by Phage because: (no reason given)

Everything is done by the book. (Even 9/11).
They advertise their intentions in local newspapers and assume silence is consent.
If they do not hear from objectors (which is very likely), they proceed with their
laid out plans.
Chemtrail away!

My silence does not equate to my consent, and never has done.

reply to post by UpEndedWorld

My silence does not equate to my consent, and never has done.

You're right. It doesn't. Consent must be actively given for testing of biological or chemical agents. You must opt in.

The New York subway tests were not tests of biological or chemical agents. The material used had undergone prior testing and shown to have no health risks.

Maybe you can take that perfume lady at the store to court for testing without informed consent. Spraying chemicals around like that.

Chemtrail away!

Where are the public announcements about "chemtrails"? I must have missed them.

Zaphod58
reply to post by Mikeultra

 

So you're saying that you would believe a murder happened, because I spilled a drop of red paint on the sidewalk. Because that's about how related your "evidence" is. You have a tracer element released into the subway, proving that those long white lines in the sky are chemicals being sprayed. That's quite a leap for anyone.

Your words, not mine. Here look at another example concerning consent and the FDA. It is about a PolyHeme, a modified human hemoglobin. Read the part at the bottom of the page about clinical trials and consent controversy.
en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by UpEndedWorld

My silence does not equate to my consent, and never has done.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Are you guys co-workers or something?

ETA: Take a look at that Mike. That's what a connection looks like. "Upendedworld" and "Topsyturvyone"?

It would be reasonable to suspect sock puppet. Not an accusation, just pointing out the obvious.

reply to post by Mikeultra

FDA testing is not DoD testing. The tests fell under special rules because the subjects were physically unable to give consent.
And neither has anything to do with showing evidence of "chemtrails".

reply to post by Zaphod58


I live near an airport and what's odd to me is when I see 10 different planes with no "chemtrail" and then all of a sudden one had it. Can't explain that because the other 10 seems to cover a fairly large altitude variance. I witnessed that twice today.

reply to post by libertytoall

Can't explain that because the other 10 seems to cover a fairly large altitude variance.

I can. The one was flying at an altitude which was conducive to contrail formation and the others weren't.
The fact that you live near an airport could indicate that the planes that were not producing contrails may have been local arrivals/departures and too low to produce contrails.

reply to post by libertytoall


You won't see them from the planes at the airport near you, they're too low. The only ones that leave them are the ones passing overhead to other airports. The planes that are lower are in warm air that can't leave contrails.

reply to post by Phage

Here is some more information about informed consent from Wikipedia.

Waiver of informed consent requirement

Waiver of the consent requirement may be applied in certain circumstances where no foreseeable harm is expected to result from the study or when permitted by law, federal regulations, or if an ethical review committee has approved the non-disclosure of certain information.[3]

Besides studies with minimal risk, waivers of consent may be obtained in a military setting. According to 10 USC 980, the United States Code for the Armed Forces, Limitations on the Use of Humans as Experimental Subjects, a waiver of advanced informed consent may be granted by the Secretary of Defense if a research project would:[4]

1. Directly benefit subjects.
2.Advance the development of a medical product necessary to the military.
3.Be carried out under all laws and regulations (i.e., Emergency Research Consent Waiver) including those pertinent to the FDA

While informed consent is a basic right and should be carried out effectively, if a patient is incapacitated due to injury or illness, it is still important that patients benefit from emergency experimentation. [5] The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) and the Department of Health and Human Services (DHHS) joined together to create federal guidelines to permit emergency research, without informed consent.[6] However, they can only proceed with the research if they obtain a waiver of informed consent (WIC) or a emergency exception from informed consent (EFIC).[7]
en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by Mikeultra


And again, absolutely nothing to do with chemtrails. What does blood have to do with anything being sprayed?

libertytoall
I live near an airport and what's odd to me is when I see 10 different planes with no "chemtrail" and then all of a sudden one had it. Can't explain that because the other 10 seems to cover a fairly large altitude variance.

Atmospheric conditions can vary even by as little as 100 feet, and in theory can even vary by as few as 3.3 feet. There are various ways to sample the atmosphere at various pressure altitudes - but most of those are specified as key points to track weather phenomena and for travel.

In this case, if they were all at ten different altitudes, there's no real way of telling what the atmospheric temperature, moisture composition, or winds were at those altitudes unless you have software or methods of gathering that test. The likely explanation would be that if you saw one with a contrail, it likely was at an altitude where the conditions were favorable for it.

I also want to stress just because you live near an airport, does not mean you will be more prone to seeing contrails. You won't really see them on take off usually, because ground conditions are not usually favorable for their development.

I witnessed that twice today.

I see contrails almost every day. Just another cirrus level cloud formation.

reply to post by Mikeultra

Here is some more information about informed consent from Wikipedia.

I'm not in the military so that part doesn't really apply.
I already pointed out the part about emergency situations when consent cannot be given but you didn't see the part about WIC and EFIC?

You still have not explained how any of the has anything to do with evidence of "chemtrails". Are "chemtrails" supposed to be a medical treatment now? I'm not incapacitated. No medical testing can be done on me without my consent.

Phage
reply to post by Mikeultra

 

Here is some more information about informed consent from Wikipedia.

I'm not in the military so that part doesn't really apply.
I already pointed out the part about emergency situations when consent cannot be given but you didn't see the part about WIC and EFIC?

You still have not explained how any of the has anything to do with evidence of "chemtrails". Are "chemtrails" supposed to be a medical treatment now? I'm not incapacitated. No medical testing can be done on me without my consent.

edit on 10/14/2013 by Phage because: (no reason given)

I don't think it would be much of a problem for them to get waivers for WIC or EFIC. Do you? Also the harmless gas in the NYC test? Not so harmless.www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

reply to post by Mikeultra


You know, you might want to at least get the right chemical before you start screaming it wasn't harmless.

Your chemical:

Perfluorooctanoic acid

The chemical released in the subway:

odorless tracer gas perfluorocarbons

Not the same. Nice try though.

reply to post by Mikeultra

I don't think it would be much of a problem for them to get waivers for WIC or EFIC. Do you?

The waivers only apply to emegency situations and only when the patient is unable to give consent.

Not so harmless

Perfluorooctanoic Acid (PFOA) is not perfluorocarbon (PFC).

And you still have not made your point about how any of this is evidence of "chemtrails".

Mikeultra
[The wording is identical on both.
www.law.cornell.edu...
files.abovetopsecret.com...

Ah - I see - I hadn't realized that you were complaining that your own post was also 1520a - which apparently you didn't realise either!! lol

my apologies - I thought your rant was about 1520 - and as I indicated earlier I couldn't read your images.

Now that you have posted a link it is evident that yes the wording is the same - they are the same law - they both contain the requirement for informed consent which you apparently are ignoring or are unable to comprehend - see section (c) in your file!!

Man it must suck to be wrong so often as you are

reply to post by Phage

Don't they get PFC from PFOA? I thought they did.

Aloysius the Gaul

Mikeultra
[The wording is identical on both.
www.law.cornell.edu...
files.abovetopsecret.com...

Ah - I see - I hadn't realized that you were complaining that your own post was also 1520a - which apparently you didn't realise either!! lol

my apologies - I thought your rant was about 1520 - and as I indicated earlier I couldn't read your images.

Now that you have posted a link it is evident that yes the wording is the same - they are the same law - they both contain the requirement for informed consent which you apparently are ignoring or are unable to comprehend - see section (c) in your file!!

Man it must suck to be wrong so often as you are

It's not so bad. Isn't it strange that they repealed one law and replaced it with the exact same thing? Trying to make the people think that they're looking out for us, when the opposite is true.

reply to post by Mikeultra

Don't they get PFC from PFOA? I thought they did.

Would that mean they are the same thing?