A Silent conspiracy of Islam - one extreme opinion

reply to post by FlyersFan


No. that makes no sense. So are you telling me that this country is the same as it was when it was under Lincoln or Jefferson? The answer is no, because as it grew stronger it became more corrupt and this is the country we have today. Same as the Islamic empire. Islam itself isnt the preoblem but the people who want to follow it their way and make their own rules.

reply to post by Cerridwen



The feeble attempt at whitewashing your medievalistic nightmare religion is futile, forget it.

First, you quote long abrogated mecca-verses that seem harmless, but have long been abrogated by later dated medina-verses of a hyper-violent nature that mandates massmurder, lying and raping of captured non-muslim women and this is typical conduct for islamic deceivers engaging in debates with non-muslims.

Second, you say that islam does not force itself and it's law upon others with different beliefs, yet there is a death penalty for apostasy and homosexuality and if atheists and polytheists reject conversion when bid do to so, the quranic command is to attack them emmidiately!

Female non-muslim captives may be raped in front of their vanquished husbands and non-muslims in general may be taken as slaves by direct sanction of Muhammed himself.

The sharia also contains rules for the treatment of non-muslim second class citizens known as "people of the book" (jews and christians who qualify as so-called dhimmis). It contains gross limits to their rights and conduct and utterly degrading and dehumanizing rules for inhumane and humiliating treatment of them in order to make their lives so unbearable that they eventually convert to islam. The egyptian copts live like this.

Sorry, but you fool nobody. Your religion is a living, totalitarian masterrace-type nightmare for non-muslims.

DuecesxGeneral
Same as the Islamic empire. Islam itself isnt the preoblem but the people who want to follow it their way and make their own rules.

And look at what you said here -

DuecesxGeneral
IM not saying that these islamic nations of today wouldnt try to rule the world with force and dictatorship, because tthey probably would. But they would do it for their own personal greed and self absorbance, not because they are following sharia.

You admit these are 'ISLAMIC COUNTRIES' and you admit it's an 'ISLAMIC EMPIRE'.
They may not adhere to your version of Islam, but the fact is ... it's ISLAM.
Hundreds of millions of them adhere to that version of Islam.
They call themselves Islamic .. and so do you. You just referred to them as such.

Their motivation for world dominance may be personal greed and self absorbance, but it also may indeed by for religious reasons. The religious reasons are used as an excuse, and yes, it is in the religion to turn everything and everyone Muslim. The leadership may or may not believe in Islam, but the followers who make the takeover happen sure do believe in it and they think it's what Islam requires.

reply to post by DuecesxGeneral


Wrong. Islam demands world dominion over the spirit (and thus societies) of the entire planet:

"He it is Who hath sent His messenger with the guidance and the religion of truth, that He may make it conqueror of all religion however much idolaters may be averse."(Qur'an 61:9) [25]

[22:64-65] To Him belongs everything in the heavens and everything on earth. Absolutely, Allah is the Most Rich, Most Praiseworthy. Do you not see that Allah has committed in your service everything on earth?

[31:26]To Allah belongs all that is in the heavens and the earth. He is the Rich, the Praised.

In order to "conquer all religion", it would logically have to sweep the whole world to seek the followers of these out.

Islam divides the world up in two houses, "the house of peace" and "the house of war". All parts of the planet that are not under islamic rule is the house of war. This is common knowledge in theology.

Islam is probably the most dangerous of all religions. Its as much a political system as it is a belief system. I have no doubt that eventually it will all come to a head. Sharia by majority dues to outbreeding will lead to blood in the streets, cultural tollerance will only go so far before it snaps. islamic values are polar opposites to the values of western society.

Islam is far from the religion of peace. I will never trust any religion that actually has it written in to its teachings that is is ok to lie to non believers and people of other faiths to further its own goals. To me that says its very possible that a great majority of faithful muslims will be lying everytime they claim to be moderate.

The following things are racist:

This thread, anyone who replied to this thread, anyone who speaks out against Islam, anyone who examines the ideology or methods of Islam, anyone who points out facts about Islam, anyone who has an opinion about Islam (the only exception is if your opinion includes the word "diversity") , soldiers killed by Islamic extremists (they really aren't extremists), or anyone reading this thread. The most racist...The Washington Redskins. Thank God BHO chimed in on that one.

So, be a good citizen. Stop being bigots. Just let this rich vibrant culture flourish in your communities. Once they become the majority, your communities will be gentrified. Then we will all be shown tolerance...surely.

reply to post by mantisfortress


ISLAM is not a race it is a belief system and one I might add that is hypocrytical to the extreme in that it can critiscize my religion but if my religion speak's back it is suddenly a racist act, Oh sorry I missed the sarcasm my bad

reply to post by LABTECH767

I think we have to realise what is going on and stop discussing if this is bad for europe. It's critically bad, no matter how much deceiving muslims practising Kitman/Taqiyya try to disguise the true intentions of islam with the world and how much delusional and hippocritical islam-protectionists on the left try to deny the problem faced and shame out all who call the disaster out and the consequential magnitude of it (continental civilwar). I think it's time to move on to the next phase which starts with the question: "who dunnit?" To win, you need to know who you're fighting!

You see, the most advanced and enlightened civilisation this planet has ever seen suddenly "culturally enriching" itself with it's own thousand-year mortal enemy by islamifying itself from head-to-toe is not something that "just kinda happens". This kind of insanity is only allowed to happen, because something - a subtle power behind the thone - wants it to happen!

I personally think the islamification of europe is a move by hegelians at the top of the system outside the reach of voters, the financial oligarchy that also runs the global centralbanking cartel and the biggest of all the global corporations, those that will not allow the notoriously shifting winds of democracy to disturb themselves. Islam is in other words the designer problem in a classical hegelian three-step rocket.

You have an agenda - the bringing about of a continental surveillance and neo-feudalistic control state - but the problem is that the populations of the continent will never accept it, they are simply too safe and secure in their lives, so you have to disrupt that to get them to accept your ambition.

1) You force islam upon these societies via supranational law and charters that trumph national sovereignty thereby overruling national laws that might serve to protect the nationstates that you want to destroy from the inside to make space for your own desired entity.

2) Exactly as expected, the problem explodes in the face of the indigenous populations, wonderffully assissted and amplified by maximally duped useful leftist idiots thinking that it's all about "inclusion", "mutual respect and understanding", "intercultural dialogue", "tolerance" and "diversity". You know, all the orwellian population-programmatic sentences and plus-words spewed out by the Rockefeller-funded Tavistock institute in the UK.

3) People are now ready to accept what they would never accept before - some will even beg for it and then it happens: The problem is solved by consolidation of all power and control in the EU by now popular demand in the desparate attempt of the populations to try to regain the safety and security that got destroyed by design in step 1)

1-2-3 wham bam, thank you mam!

Forget about any assist from the left. The common socialist is a duped idiot now running the ideological errand of the globalistic financial oligarchy. The political socialist establishment is too busy about fishing for lunatic muslim votes and laxing immigration legislation even more to feed their own cause in the hunt for the majority vote the continent over, so all the classic value-driven causes of the left have been sold down the river to please the new import proletariat needed after the old traitor-proletariat sold the revolution for red wine and mortgages.

1) For the left, the battle against the spread of reactionary religion stops where islam begins.

2) For the left, the battle for equal rights for women stops where islam begins.

3) The blind eye is turned to persecution of minorites when muslims are doing the hunting

4) Racism is ignored when practised by muslims and anyone who critisizes it is a racist

5) Xenophobia is ignored when practised by muslims and anyone who critisizes it is a xenophobe

6) Apartheid mentality is suddenly unproblematized when coming from muslims.

Continue the above list yourself.

The major block to integration of muslims into enligthened societies is islamic attitudes, but the left will always blame and demonize inwards no matter how obvious the (f)actual reality of things are to damage us maximally, so ignore them. They are acting as traitors, knowing it or not.

The left has sold out on all of it's shelves as an overpleasing whore for the pan-arabic theocrat-fascist phenomenon of islam and this phenomenon will eventually kill the whore too when her usefulness wears out. You see, the golden rule in islam is dualistic, just like everything else in it too. It only applies among muslims, not in relations with non-muslims against which you may commit rape, (mass)murder, raid, rob, lie, cheat, steal and take (sex)slaves.

Westernes simply can't get into their thick heads, that most muslims abide by the dualistic ethics- and morality of islam and so project their own enlightened universalistic approach to ethics- and morality onto muslims, thinking that the vast majority of muslims subscribe to universal ethics too. BIG MISTAKE!!!

So, what do non-duped freedom lovers do? The hour is late!

I am a spaniard. We know all too well what having muslim neighbors leads to. For us it was 800 years of rape theft and murder.

I say they are not our friends. I have known many great people who happen to be muslim. They were not militant and were actually some of the nicest people I have ever met.

That said, they didnt seem like the type to stand up for a non muslim if a hard line muslim was forcing extremist laws on others. They would duck their head and go home. No heroes there.

So I will say it again. Nice people some of them. BUT not our friends.

They have a very high birth rate. They will out breed us eventually. This has always been an issue. They take many wives and have as many kids as the women can humanly have.

What the west has always done is bring war to them. Sorry but this is not for profit. We cant exterminate them, and really who would want to be the devil himself to do so.

We also cant just leave them be. Look to Greece and Turkey. No.

Until a real prophet comes to them and brings them out of the dark ages, they need to be kept at bay.

No political wording of intentions or proper negotiation will ever lead anywhere. That is balls insane to think it will. Not with them.

The muslim world has always sought to conquer the world. To spread Islam to all corners of the world. This is undeniable. If you think that American christians bringing evangelical propaganda was bad, look at how they work. Down right psychological warfare and fear tactics.

I know it sucks, but this is our world. They are not just another people. They are not our friends. We may get along when both of us are moderates just trying to live life. BUT that is not the norm.

Moderate Muslims dont have the fervor or the appeal of extremists who sadly ARE the traditional muslims. They are right in that. They are the traditional muslim world. The moderates are a new thing. I applaud them, but dont really expect them to do much when faced with organized and extreme violence. I wouldnt know where to start either.

So say what you will. IF they didnt have something of ours and us to shoot at in their lands they would be here in greater force. They already are. Imagine if the real sadistic and violent ones had peace at home....where do you think they would be? NOT spreading Islam? Let them DEFEND it at home. This way they dont have the chance to perpetuate it else where.....like they always have.

reply to post by Daemonarch

Oh wow....rarely do I still see such blatant deception on ATS any more.
Snatching quotes out of context, removing the bits that don't agree with your view, alternating translations to create a narrative that doesn't exist. But then again, it seems that you are not at fault (entirely), it is just that you mass-copied it from some bigoted site.

Surah 61, verse 9
It is He Who has sent His Messenger with Guidance and the Religion of Truth, that he may proclaim it over all religion, even though the Pagans may detest (it).

Surah 22, verses 65-66
To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and on earth: for verily Allah,- He is free of all wants, Worthy of all Praise. Seest thou not that Allah has made subject to you (men) all that is on the earth, and the ships that sail through the sea by His Command? He withholds the sky (rain) from failing on the earth except by His leave: for Allah is Most Kind and Most Merciful to man.
YUSUFALI: It is He Who gave you life, will cause you to die, and will again give you life: Truly man is a most ungrateful creature!

Surah 31, verse 26
Unto Allah belongeth whatsoever is in the heavens and the earth. Lo! Allah, He is the Absolute, the Owner of Praise.

Are you saying that (if God exists) everything DOESN'T belong to God? How does that translate into "Islam demands world dominion over the spirit (and thus societies) of the entire planet", especially with this verse:

Surah 5:48
To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute;

Daemonarch
Islam divides the world up in two houses, "the house of peace" and "the house of war". All parts of the planet that are not under islamic rule is the house of war. This is common knowledge in theology.

No it doesn't. This is commonly known BS bigotry. The term "Dar-ul-salaam" ("House of peace", as you call it) occurs in the Quran only as a reference to heaven. The term "Dar-ul-harb" (or "House of war", as you call it), or any such term, occurs nowhere in the islamic scriptures.

reply to post by Daemonarch


Do you even understand the concept of Taqiyya or why it was ever instituted and the rules concerning it?

And seriously? Supremacist demon? That is a big bigoted of you to say to anyone while you refuse to fight your government on issues that involve the bombing of other countries for no reason and the supporting of the extremists in muslim countries!

As far as what verses are abrogated or not, well among the scholarship that number varies with some saying as little as only 1 verse in the Quran was ever abrogated...

as to the verses you speak of... we have to look at the situations at the time in order to see the true meaning, this is why history is very important...

we have verses of peace during a peaceful time, a time when muslims and christians were working together and living together in peace... later, the muslims and christians ended up going to war, and other verses came into being, but none of the peace verses were abrogated. If we are friends with the christians then we do not kill them during times of peace, but if we are at war, well lets face it war is war is it not? and if they incline once more to peace then by the quran we must be peaceful with them, and not break our oaths or treaties with them....

Peaceful verses are only not during war.... and only when the war is brought to the muslims by the christians... there is a holistic and logical way of dealing with other peoples, all spelled out in the Quran... none of that is abrogated.... but it all has its own place depending on what is happening during the time we find ourselves in!

OpinionatedB
reply to post by Daemonarch

 

Do you even understand the concept of Taqiyya or why it was ever instituted and the rules concerning it?

And seriously? Supremacist demon? That is a big bigoted of you to say to anyone while you refuse to fight your government on issues that involve the bombing of other countries for no reason and the supporting of the extremists in muslim countries!

As far as what verses are abrogated or not, well among the scholarship that number varies with some saying as little as only 1 verse in the Quran was ever abrogated...

as to the verses you speak of... we have to look at the situations at the time in order to see the true meaning, this is why history is very important...

we have verses of peace during a peaceful time, a time when muslims and christians were working together and living together in peace... later, the muslims and christians ended up going to war, and other verses came into being, but none of the peace verses were abrogated. If we are friends with the christians then we do not kill them during times of peace, but if we are at war, well lets face it war is war is it not? and if they incline once more to peace then by the quran we must be peaceful with them, and not break our oaths or treaties with them....

Peaceful verses are only not during war.... and only when the war is brought to the muslims by the christians... there is a holistic and logical way of dealing with other peoples, all spelled out in the Quran... none of that is abrogated.... but it all has its own place depending on what is happening during the time we find ourselves in!

There is not point in discussing anything with you regarding war or peace or what justifies aggression, because to most of your backwards kind a simple rejection of islam or a drawing of your kiddy-bedding paedophet hero is enough to embark on campaigns of massmurder, killing random non-muslims while claiming "islam has been attacked" and so "self-defence is warranted.

The islamic understanding of what "an attack" constitutes is straight out of hell. To untold millions of your kind, simple critique of islam is "an attack on islam" that warrants subsequent beheadings and massmurder in "self-defensive" narcissistic rage fermented by the preceeding narcissistic injury. Sorry, your civilization has a frothing rabies-issue and we want no part of it.

Kitman justifies lying and deceiving straight to the face of unbelievers to get close enough to them to get at their lives. The "prophet" Muhammed sanctioned lying and deceiving to get close to rivaling tribal leaders that just refused to submit to himself and this is used to establish precent-day universally moral justification to do the similar in a present-day context, so - again - shut up with your Kitmanic "out of context" BS, we know the story. Muhammeds' set exampls are widely viewed as timeless and morally universally valid in all similar present day situations that muslims may find themselves in. His example serves as timeless and morally perfect examples of acceptable islamic conduct, a guideline which is perfecty transferrable to all matching present day situations whenever muslims in doubt needs "guidance" instead of thinking for themselves.

Abrogation: more lying and deceiving! The principle is simple: if two verses contradict one another, the newest verse simply takes precedence over the older one. The article I link to above explains it perfectly well and even lists a ton of older verses that have been long abrogated by newer ones of total lunacy that forever stands as "true islam", so more Kitman/taqiyya from you.

On "My" government: You have no idea what fights I pick within my own ranks, so keep your lame and ill-informed assumptions to yourself. As far as I'm concerned, the islamic civilisation should just be allowed to simply sink into the pit under the weight of it's own doctrinary inadequacy and narcisstically self-divinifying lunacy. It wouldn't take long!

Your entire civilisation lives in a crony-capitalistic respirator mercifully maintained by the unelected globalistic financial oligarchy (which makes it not just "the west" thank you!) and the fact that you have "an issue" with the conduct of certain western governments under their boot through their control of the monetary system which allows them to diectly control the societal health of all subdued slavenations and who I don't even sympathize with myself, does not entitle you and your kind to just march in and bother civilised and enlightend (but naive) civilians in the west with your supremacistic religious insanity in our neck of the woods.

reply to post by Daemonarch

Daemonarch
"The out of context" contra-argument is outdated and exposed as typical Kitman/Taqiyya loooooong ago.

"I think we have to commit rape, (mass)murder, raid, rob, lie, cheat, steal and take (sex)slaves."
Your own, very exact words from earlier in this thread. And if you disagree and deny that, and say I was misquoting you or quoting you out of context, you're obviously doing kitman and taqiyya , just like the exact same scenario you are accusing me of.

Daemonarch
Be gone with your insanity, supremacist demon. We can more easily progress in the west without you and your lunatic kind around to screw things up.

You don't seem to know how anything works, yet you're calling me insane .

Daemonarch
Dar al harb and Dar al islam: I never said it was in the quran itself.

Dar al islam is paradise? Liar... again

en.wikipedia.org...

Dar al-Islam (Arabic: دار الإسلام‎ literally house/abode of Islam; or Dar as-Salam, house/abode of Peace; or Dar al-Tawhid, house/abode of monotheism) is a term used by Muslim scholars to refer to those countries where Muslims can practice their religion freely. It's the area of the world under the rule of Islam , literally, "the home of Islam" or "the home of submission."

I think you missed the very next line, where it said "Dar al-Islam is also known and referred to as Dar al-Salam, or house/abode of Peace. The term appears in the Koran in 10.25 and 6.127 as a name of Paradise".

And you said earlier:

Daemonarch
Islam divides the world up in two houses, "the house of peace" and "the house of war".

Who exactly is "Islam"? Because neither the Quran, nor the Hadith make any mention of any such "Dar-ul-harb".

So when I do it, it is "jihadi lying and deceiving". What do you call it when you do it?

for a religion of peace its track record is not that good. They are terrible at that. Other religions have their own history sure....but their actions of deep seeded sadistic and bloody violence are part of the present day. Literally now as we speak barbarous actions are being committed. I don't think the other worlds religions can say the same.

So why then has the religion of peace never found peace? Why have they even in times of isolation from other nations, or dominance of their neighbors, never stopped killing?

Why have they never lost their blood lust? Even when left alone they have slaughtered people.

They literally defend everything backwards and vile of the old world that kept humanity as slaves to the tribal filth from whence we came and would never like to return. Hate, ignorance, abuse, cruelty, torture, rape, intolerance, totalitarian ruling.......just utter crap.

and the progressives among us defend them......I mean its a little funny. Isn't it ironic, don't you think?

I don't care for context of a dusty old book. Their actions are better examples of "context". Past and present.

Mohammed was a bad person veiled in "gods words". He killed people, raped, stole, tortured
....context? are you serious? He was like a Mongolian war lord at best.....a primitive hitler, An evil person.

What the hell...?
d,

A point on those who are claiming the muslim wave creeping across Europe to be a direct or even indirect result of western interference in the Arabian peninsula, it might be worth pointing out that the majority of muslim's believe that for paradise on earth, they need to await the arrival of the Mahdi, or anti-christ, which in all honestly has a lot of similarities as the Christian Anti-Christ.

They believe the Mahdi, must arrive on earth in a time of great wars and troubles, and by adding fuel to the fire to so speak, they "believe" that they are ushering in the return of Mohammed and in turn hastening their journey to paradise.

Just my two cents worth, take from it what you will.

I was raised in a Moderate Muslim community. I use to call the ADHAN, the call to prayer.

In those days we debated the fundamentalist from Pakistan (Taliban type) called the Tableeki brothers, and the Saudi Wahhabis, (who btw actually infiltrated out community and destabilized it).

They wanted to eat with their hands ( like the old time desert Arabs) and tell us that our woman should cover their faces, we basically told them to go to hell we have out own version of Islam for us and don’t need or want that primitive pre-modern version they tried to hoist on us.

Some of the fundamentalist are fanatical; there is no doubt about it, though not all of them are violent. The Saudis have the fanatical Wahhabi Islam but are not overtly violent.

But the good thing is that they are in the minority in Islam. Look at Egypt and other Muslims who want to shun the fanatical brand.

reply to post by TheGreatest

wer.



This is not true. Muslims do not await the return of Muhammad.

There are prophecies (HADITHS) that talk about Jesus and a Mahdi coming. In-fact, many Muslin scholars think the Mahdi and Jesus are one and the same and others think they are two separate people.

But these prophesies ARE NOT in the Quran they are traditions.

Willtell
reply to post by TheGreatest

 

wer.



This is not true. Muslims do not await the return of Muhammad.

There are prophecies (HADITHS) that talk about Jesus and a Mahdi coming. In-fact, many Muslin scholars think the Mahdi and Jesus are one and the same and others think they are two separate people.

But these prophesies ARE NOT in the Quran they are traditions.

Ah, i stand corrected then. So what traditions gave birth to these prophecies? Has it derived from the Shia branch of Islam?