Ancient Confession Found: 'We Invented Jesus Christ'

reply to post by ltheghost


Seems as though this Atwitt gent is simply cap'n on the secular population that are
looking forward to information like this with great eagerness.
Demand and supply. Personally. I think he's an idiot.

reply to post by ltheghost


Why would the Romans persecute Christians if they were spreading propaganda from the Romans?... That's what makes no sense. There are plenty of books, not only the bible, from that time in which different branches of Christian leaders wrote about what they saw Jesus do. What the Romans did do was ADD and MERGE other beliefs into Christianity, but Jesus Christ wasn't an invention made by them.

whyamIhere
C'mon man.

Jesus is the most documented person in History.

You can question his story.....but he certainly wasn't made up.

Got me good laugh there...

There is no single piece of evidence Jesus ever existed. Bible by itself is just a collection of myths and believes. Can't be taken seriously as historical document.

Great find, S + F for this post.

SuperFrog

whyamIhere
C'mon man.

Jesus is the most documented person in History.

You can question his story.....but he certainly wasn't made up.

Got me good laugh there...

There is no single piece of evidence Jesus ever existed. Bible by itself is just a collection of myths and believes. Can't be taken seriously as historical document.

Great find, S + F for this post.

Good thing you clearly read the whole thread...

ETA:

For those interested, there is a good review of why Atwill's book is garbage here:

link 1

The above review is actually authored by a theologian who doesn't believe in Christs historical existence, and even he can see that Joseph Atwill has missed the boat.

There are also some well thought out criticisms here:

link 2

I think we can effectively put Atwill's theories to bed. There is simply no evidence that his claims are true, and if anything the bulk of the evidence indicates he is completely out to lunch.

I have always wondered about Christ mainly from the perspective of whether he was through marriage the so-called King of the Jews. I'm not getting into the Messiah/ religious leader, king stuff exactly but his whole life is strange to me because it echoes so much myth - born of a virgin, hung on a cross etc etc.


The Christian Bible shows little knowledge of Jewish Law or the Synagogue enforcers roles at that time, who were ever ready to stone someone who stepped out of line, yet there is no mention of him or the chaos he caused. Christianity has never acknowledged that Christ had to be a Rabbi to teach and to be a Rabbi he had to be married. So what was his role?

The only references to him comes from a source that is unreliable - Jesephus and we know that most that has been written for Christianity has been heavily interpolated by scribes with their master's own agendas. No Jew would ever have given unto Caesar what Caesar perceived as his, least of all money!

The bible has been given terrific reverence without question and because of its long existence and adoption by Christianity it has been ingrained through fear of hell into children's minds it is correct but - how do you get animals the size of elephants into an ark and float happily around during a flood. How do you meander in a desert for scores of years and survive without water, fresh food etc. If the Bible were released today, it would be lucky to get printed.

Christ has earned a select group of men a very cosy and lucrative living for nearly 2000 years. But as to his authencity, just where do you draw the line of mythical historic license and near truth, because anyone with common sense would question most of its content. Its seems to work virtually as a synergistic blend of all sorts of pagan beliefs poured into a book that has been forced around the world and imposed on people in order to extract their coppers. I can't even see today where you separate out the good work the Church does from the many charities that work specifically to alleviate human suffering. Our local church seems to be a club for a few select people who consider themselves more pious than the rest. Whether they are of not, who knows but pride is not supposed to be good for the spirit.

Somehow out of all the blend for Christianity comes a few brilliant parables that make sense and put humanity back on tracts. Do as you would be done by, but is that a message of divinity or of human compassion?

I am not saying he didn't exist - just can one be sure?

DeadSeraph
Good thing you clearly read the whole thread...

ETA:

For those interested, there is a good review of why Atwill's book is garbage here:

link 1

There are also some well thought out criticisms here:

link 2

I think we can effectively put Atwill's theories to bed. There is simply no evidence that his claims are true, and if anything the bulk of the evidence indicates he is completely out to lunch.

edit on 9-10-2013 by DeadSeraph because: (no reason given)

You can't be serious... posting blogs as proofs....

This, as many other things (no historical records, proof that Nazareth does not match description given on Jesus accounts etc.) just prove for me that whole story is manipulation. Nothing new...

You can believe all you want, today some even Believe Elvis is still alive... but that just does not make it real... even there are books, articles and believers there....

Sorry...

Either give some evidence or let's agree - it is just belief.

reply to post by SuperFrog


They are sound rebuttals of Atwills theories written by people with actual credentials (something Joseph Atwill lacks).

You are wanting proof, and it has been provided in spades, yet you are willing to accept Atwill's theories based on what proofs exactly?

For your information, despite the fact the article linked in the OP makes the dubious claim that Atwill is a "biblical scholar", nothing could be further from the truth. He is an entrepreneur and holds no degrees in history, linguistics, or theology. But I guess since his theory sort of conforms to your own preconceived bias thats good enough for you, am I right?

I have very little to add to what has already been said...

As others already said:
Why would the Romans create a "story" where they are the bad guys? And why would they then persecute the followers of the religion they supposedly invented? From the crucifixion right through to Nero, Marcus Aurelius to Julian and so on until about the fourth century... When it (Christianity) "got out of hand", why not come out and say "Haha! Fooled you!" and no more Christians!?

I don't understand people. There is an entire industry based on the idea that Atlantis was real. Consider that it all began from a single paragraph written by Plato... Yet you've got another "story" (read: history) with several different sources and documents with confirmable facts and the same people that believe Atlantis was real would tell you what a great "fairy tale" the Bible is... People are strange indeed.

Joseph Atwill states "a kind of propaganda exercise used to pacify the subjects of the Roman Empire"... How do we know this isn't propaganda?

Consider another book: The Bible Code. Published in 1997. Thousands of copies sold. Reached best-seller status. (The same goes for The Bible Code 2.) That is thousands of people reading about "extraterrestrial life that wrote a secret code into the Bible and also brought the DNA of the human genetic code to Earth"... Doesn't matter how far-fetched or absurd your theory/ies, there is always a fool willing to part with his/her money... If your story is good enough.
Visit Mr Joseph Atwill's website... What's the very first thing you see? : BUY TICKETS. Uh-huh.

Yeah. Uhm. No.

SuperFrog

DeadSeraph
Good thing you clearly read the whole thread...

ETA:

For those interested, there is a good review of why Atwill's book is garbage here:

link 1

There are also some well thought out criticisms here:

link 2

I think we can effectively put Atwill's theories to bed. There is simply no evidence that his claims are true, and if anything the bulk of the evidence indicates he is completely out to lunch.

edit on 9-10-2013 by DeadSeraph because: (no reason given)

You can't be serious... posting blogs as proofs....

This, as many other things (no historical records, proof that Nazareth does not match description given on Jesus accounts etc.) just prove for me that whole story is manipulation. Nothing new...

You can believe all you want, today some even Believe Elvis is still alive... but that just does not make it real... even there are books, articles and believers there....

Sorry...

Either give some evidence or let's agree - it is just belief.

I guess you missed this post by me.

Non Biblical primary sources for Jesus include, Flavius Josephus, Gaius Suetonius, Cornelius Tacitus, Babylonian Talmud, Pliny the Younger, Trajan, and some even include the Koran.

eta Tacitus even mentions Pontius Pilatus by name as the man that sentenced Jesus to crucifixion.

There ya go! Since you jumped right in without reading the whole thread, I guess I'll just have to spoon feed you. This is just one of my posts on this thread. There are others if you are willing to actually read the thread and not just asking for the 'Cliff's notes" version.

reply to post by BO XIAN

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!


"Atwill is a snake oil salesman and nothing more. His goal is to sell books, not discuss the truth. All of his claims fall apart under the light of history (history which anyone can research if they are so inclined)."

I thought he rather smelled that way.

So is Lee Strobel. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. ::eyeroll:: *facepalm*

Two points;

a) How can anyone seriously believe that such an announcement would come through PRWeb? Add that to the fact that the supposed discovery has been being touted by Joseph Atwill for over a decade, and is the subject of a number of books of his, and anyone should come to the reasonable conclusion that this is a PR piece intended to sell more of the idiot's books. Congrats, OP, you're a shill for a known fraud.

b) Anyone who thinks that the New Testament was written by non-Jewish sources (ie: the Romans, the Pisos, aliens, etc) needs to read Jesus and the Eyewitnesses by Dr. Richard Bauckham. The book is a scholarly (meaning lots of references,) examination of the text and a statistical analysis of names, geophysical descriptions and other facts presented in the New Testament that demonstrates that whoever wrote the text was sufficiently familiar with the subtle aspects of Jewish culture and geography of the region that they must have been Jews who lived in or around Jerusalem in the middle of the First Century. Bauckham goes a bit further, to show that, at least in part, Gospel of Mark and Gospel of John were sourced from people who were contemporaneous to Jesus and knew him.

Personally, I will take the evidence of actual historical research, as evidenced by Bauckam's book and its deep references, over someone who presents ridiculous arguments based on coincidental facts, bad scholarship and outright fabrications. That won't affect anyone who desperately wants to believe that Christianity is a sham, of course, but I would wonder why anyone who isn't closed minded wouldn't fall down on the side of scientific and historical evidence, as opposed to opinion presented as fact.

Why would the Romans create such a flawed 'Messiah' - born a 'mamzir' (in the eyes of Jews), knowing that such a person could never be seen as a true messiah? The author (touting his book through PRweb of all things) doesn't appear to regard 1st-century Judaism in much regard. Just another cockamamie theory...

reply to post by Khaleesi



You really can't be serious...

Flavius Josephus (37 – ca. 100)
Gaius Suetonius (c. 69 – after 122)
Cornelius Tacitus (56 – after 117)
Babylonian Talmud (3rd to 5th centuries)
Pliny the Younger (61 – ca. 112)
Trajan (18 September 53 – 9 August 117 AD)
Koran. (after 22 December 609)

How do you imagine any of your 'sources' as reliable?

Let's just take something not even 10 years old - war in iraq - who and why started it? You will see that different historians will have different opinion, but imagine what someone born today will have in 20-30 years... and we live in media age... back than you did not have that... folk tales and myths... at the best... very small literacy... and people believing in many things, including Mars, Jupiter, Aphrodite....

ltheghost
uk.prweb.com...

Ran across this article today. Thoughts? And what are the ramifications if it is true? Or is this just sloppy research or something to discredit an entire religion?

Yes its sloppy, very sloppy.

The idea that Jesus was a composite made of older mythologies is very reasonable, and PROBABLE, and NOT NEW.

Here is a list of the major works that have been published for over 200 years:

Demolishing the historicity of Jesus – A History

For more than 200 years a minority of courageous scholars have dared to question the story of Jesus. Despite the risks of physical assault, professional ruin and social opprobrium, they have seriously doubted the veracity of the gospel saga, have peeled away the layers of fraud and deceit and eventually have challenged the very existence of the godman.

www.jesusneverexisted.com...

Oh, wait...there's 91 of them listed. Voltaire, Paine, and many, many, many, many others (Atwill Included).

C'mon people! You're just now knowing this?? This is OLD NEWS. It's just been suppressed by control-mongers.

"Jesus was made up"

Who gives a hoot? Seriously.

We are not small villages of in breds any more. We live in an era Jesus could not even understand, the technological, flying craft, trains, cars, laser tech etc.. This is not year 100 B.C. .

Why are people in the 21st century, still depending their lives on books, and characters from a STORY made up by the CHURCH, which was used to CONTROL the dumb sheep in a time where people were talking to burning bushes, hearing voices in their heads, and ready to sacrifice their children?

And people TODAY claim we are the most intelligent species in the universe.. What the f*k man..

wildtimes
The idea that Jesus was a composite made of older mythologies is very reasonable, and PROBABLE, and NOT NEW.

Here is a list of the major works that have been published for over 200 years:

Demolishing the historicity of Jesus – A History

For more than 200 years a minority of courageous scholars have dared to question the story of Jesus. Despite the risks of physical assault, professional ruin and social opprobrium, they have seriously doubted the veracity of the gospel saga, have peeled away the layers of fraud and deceit and eventually have challenged the very existence of the godman.

www.jesusneverexisted.com...

Oh, wait...there's 91 of them listed. Voltaire, Paine, and many, many, many, many others (Atwill Included).

C'mon people! You're just now knowing this?? This is OLD NEWS. It's just been suppressed by control-mongers.

They are in the minority, and even among those of them bold enough to contend that Jesus was a myth, very very few of them lend any credence to Joseph Atwill's claims. Why? Because Atwills claims are completely retarded as proven in this thread and others.

reply to post by DeadSeraph


Really? Voltaire was retarded? Thomas Paine? DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHO THEY ARE??

"retarded" indeed.

Salvation by Reason

Ironically, it was the work of a number of liberal theologians, rather than freethinkers, who first fractured that glorious fabrication Jesus, Son of God, Saviour of the World.

The "received wisdom" of the Church was first challenged during the European Reformation, which gave legitimacy to criticism of the papal system. Having opened the flood gates, all religious authorities and scripture itself were called into question and Protestantism emerged in myriad disparate sects. But after a thousand years of Church-enforced ignorance "school men" had but a small stock of real knowledge. As sinecured churchmen, these scholars struggled to use the rediscovered tools of logic to defend the dogmas of Christianity, whether of the Roman Catholic or new "pure" reformed variety.

But after two centuries, as the Enlightenment unfolded, brave theologians began to draw attention to the obvious errors and incongruities in accepted scripture. Why, they asked, was the New Testament silent about most of Jesus’ life? Why did Paul say almost nothing about the life of Jesus?

During the American and French Revolutions freethinkers went much further, questioning the veracity of the entire Bible and denouncing Christianity as a bogus superstition and an instrument of oppression.

covertpanther
And people TODAY claim we are the most intelligent species in the universe.. What the f*k man..

Only people who know little about universe would say such a thing...

Latest statistical data show that probability of us being only intelligent life in universe - very small...

I love quote by Sir Arthur C. Clarke - 'It has yet to be proven that intelligence has any survival value.'

wildtimes
reply to post by DeadSeraph

 

Really? Voltaire was retarded? Thomas Paine? DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHO THEY ARE??

"retarded" indeed.

Did you even read what I wrote?