Ancient Confession Found: 'We Invented Jesus Christ'

reply to post by Konduit


I'm sorry that you failed to see my point. Maybe if you read my OP here, you'll understand my position better. The Free Will Conspiracy of the Bible

Free will cannot be had if there is a God who is giving "strong delusions" to some and has predestined failure for others. Nor can free will be had when this God is coercing individuals to give up their free will in exchange for his will, "Not my will, but thine."

windword
reply to post by Konduit

 

I'm sorry that you failed to see my point. Maybe if you read my OP here, you'll understand my position better. The Free Will Conspiracy of the Bible

Free will cannot be had if there is a God who is giving "strong delusions" to some and has predestined failure for others. Nor can free will be had when this God is coercing individuals to give up their free will in exchange for his will, "Not my will, but thine."

Here's how free will works. Those who are predestined to be saved, glorified, and live eternally with God, by their own free will follow and honor God. They want God and because of that they choose God. God let them do this and it is their nature to do so.

Those who are to be cursed, damned, and destroyed choose by their will to be so. They are evil in that they reject even the notion of God, or that there is a God. They don't want God and so they reject Him. God let's them do this because it is their nature to do so.

Not everyone living is of God. Some are of Satan, and are his children. The Bible refers to them as "tares" or false wheat. They are also known as the seed of the Serpent (Genesis 3) and the Nephilim who walk among us today.

It is easy to tell if you will be among those who are to be destroyed and damned and those who will be saved eternal with God. Here is a simple free will test, see how you do.


The Bible says the There is God, the Creator and Father of Jesus Christ, do you believe this?

The Bible says that Jesus Christ is the Lord, do you believe this?

The Bible says that Jesus Christ is God in the flesh, do you believe this?

The Bible says that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, do you believe this?

The Bible says that Jesus is the only way to salvation, do you believe this?


If you answered yes to these questions, you are worthy to be saved.

If you answered no to these questions then you are not of God and will not be saved.


The Bible says "He that has the Son (Jesus) has life, and he that does not have the Son shall not see life."

And God is just because we live or die by our own free will.


And, just to stay on topic, we can see that the person who wrote the article saying Jesus was the creation of men for the Roman Empire to mess with the Jews is not of God because he does not believe in Jesus as Lord and Savior. Those of us who are of God reject such notions because we have been saved and know the truth.

reply to post by windword


Yes, freewill seems to be limited in choice selection. And yes it appears to be the case that some are never apprised to the choices.

An alternative would be that at some point certain are blinded due to lack of proper selection of choice and are given over to their own will. For these there is no further revelation of truth and blindness sets in.

reply to post by Fromabove

Here's how free will works. Those who are predestined to be saved, glorified, and live eternally with God, by their own free will follow and honor God. They want God and because of that they choose God. God let them do this and it is their nature to do so.

Those who are to be cursed, damned, and destroyed choose by their will to be so. They are evil in that they reject even the notion of God, or that there is a God. They don't want God and so they reject Him. God let's them do this because it is their nature to do so.

That makes no sense.

"For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate.... Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified." -- Romans 8:29-30

Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction." -- Romans 9:11-22

There is no free will here!

Not everyone living is of God. Some are of Satan, and are his children. The Bible refers to them as "tares" or false wheat. They are also known as the seed of the Serpent (Genesis 3) and the Nephilim who walk among us today.

I don't believe that for one second!

The Bible says the There is God, the Creator and Father of Jesus Christ, do you believe this?

Nope!

The Bible says that Jesus Christ is the Lord, do you believe this?

Nope!

The Bible says that Jesus Christ is God in the flesh, do you believe this?

Nope!

The Bible says that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, do you believe this?

Nope!

The Bible says that Jesus is the only way to salvation, do you believe this?

Nope!

If you answered yes to these questions, you are worthy to be saved.

If you answered no to these questions then you are not of God and will not be saved.

I don't believe that.

The Bible says "He that has the Son (Jesus) has life, and he that does not have the Son shall not see life."

The Bible says a lot of crazy stuff that I don't believe.

And God is just because we live or die by our own free will.

No. The God of the Bible is NOT just and he hates free will! The Bible uses every trick there is to try to get you to give up your free will.

Dr Walter Martin's illustration re free will is the best I've ever come across.

Imagine a computer as large as the universe . . . with every choice of every organism programmed into it.

AT THE LEVEL OF THE ORGANISM--there IS a

ROBUST DEGREE

of freewill.

Life has NO examples of total free will

and probably no examples of 100% total determinism.

At the level of the computer programmer--God--HE can jiggle the program to achieve His goals.

Those without God are already overwhelmingly devoid of free will as they are slaves to their appetites, their dopamine reward compulsions, their blindnesses etc.

And, it's somewhat like the twin stallions . . . one captured and trained is eventually free to roam the ranch but chooses the barn and friendship and compliant relationship serving the rancher. His brother is freer in a sense . . . but only in a sense . . . free to starve . . . free to die uncared for from injuries.

"Free in obedience" is not really the oxymoron some might think.

Only as love slaves of Jesus The Christ are we free enough and enabled enough to become FULLY WHO WE WERE DESIGNED TO BE from before the foundation of the world.

BO XIAN
Dr Walter Martin's illustration re free will is the best I've ever come across.

Imagine a computer as large as the universe . . . with every choice of every organism programmed into it.

AT THE LEVEL OF THE ORGANISM--there IS a

ROBUST DEGREE

of freewill.

Life has NO examples of total free will

and probably no examples of 100% total determinism.

At the level of the computer programmer--God--HE can jiggle the program to achieve His goals.

Those without God are already overwhelmingly devoid of free will as they are slaves to their appetites, their dopamine reward compulsions, their blindnesses etc.

And, it's somewhat like the twin stallions . . . one captured and trained is eventually free to roam the ranch but chooses the barn and friendship and compliant relationship serving the rancher. His brother is freer in a sense . . . but only in a sense . . . free to starve . . . free to die uncared for from injuries.

"Free in obedience" is not really the oxymoron some might think.

Only as love slaves of Jesus The Christ are we free enough and enabled enough to become FULLY WHO WE WERE DESIGNED TO BE from before the foundation of the world.

Speaking of free will...

‘Take your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt-offering on one of the mountains that I shall show you.’ (Genesis 22:2)

“Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord.” (Ephesians 5:22)

“Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel.” (1 Peter 2:18)

Question to those who answer to 1 yes from above list of questions posted by Fromabove - why do you pray?

That things with praying does not really makes any sense, especially if you take into account that God already has divine plan for everyone. First of all, those praying on Sunday forgot that this is day God takes off - even after he created world, he took day off. Second - is god going to change his divine plan for each of your plans? And third, if God created everything, does that mean that he created bad staff and we are not so good 'creation'. By looking through our history, no we are not... but look at above sample - God told us to be that way... (I can add more to this, but just don't see a point)

It still surprise me how people can believe all this non-sense.

reply to post by BO XIAN


How do you explain free will for someone born with special needs or incomplete? From medicine we just scratched our genetic code and are about to be able to make change to help those unable to have healthy offspring - why God in all his power did not do something when he created us to help his followers?

We are going a bit off topic here, and to move us back - there is no single piece of evidence in existence of Jesus. It all seems well created in order to manage masses, as first post suggested.

We see here on multiple examples here in discussion that even after 2000 yeas, system is working, but as science and technology progress - it is loosing its footing. All pools show that atheism is on rise, and here you can see why.

reply to post by SuperFrog

From medicine we just scratched our genetic code and are about to be able to make change to help those unable to have healthy offspring

Exactly!

If Jesus was God, one would think that while he was here on Earth, healing people and teaching people how to live correctly, he might have told us about germs and the importance of washing one's hands after laying them on the sick!

Another extremely irresponsible teaching:

Mark 16:18
they shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

And,

Matthew 15:11
It's not what goes into the mouth that defiles a man, but what comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man."

How many people died from salmonella poisoning because of this scripture? How many people died from "Black Death" after laying on hands?

windword
How many people died from salmonella poisoning because of this scripture? How many people died from "Black Death" after laying on hands?

Simple answer to simple question - too many.

It is more then clear that there is nothing holy/special about so called holy books, and that people of time when they wrote them just DID NOT KNOW BETTER.

Thus, you have rights of women and slaves slashed by all mighty God who threats everyone equally, right? Not so, as most of passages mentioned here show otherwise.

This bring us back to start of discussion,a s invented, it is clear that Jesus is just another invention. If experiment with Jesus was successful why not have multiple of him sent down to help rest of the word.... or is this just the way god show us how much he cares about us?!

reply to post by SuperFrog



And on top of all that the bible uses frogs as a picture type of foul demonic spirits.

reply to post by Logarock


But frogs are NOT foul and evil spirits. They're a key player in ecosystems around the planet. See, the Bible is full of misnomers!

SuperFrog
reply to post by BO XIAN

 

We see here on multiple examples here in discussion that even after 2000 yeas, system is working, but as science and technology progress - it is loosing its footing. All pools show that atheism is on rise, and here you can see why.

Numbers don't mean anything. So atheism is on the rise now. In 20 years there will be the reformed atheist movement were they will admit to twisting scripture to their own ends, lying, generally admitting that they don't know what they are talking about and apologizing for all those that died at the hands of atheist inspired ideologies.

windword
reply to post by Logarock

 

But frogs are NOT foul and evil spirits. They're a key player in ecosystems around the planet. See, the Bible is full of misnomers!

Yea sure. Key players. Evil sprits like frogs coming up out of the abyss. Gib-iitt.

windword
reply to post by SuperFrog

 

From medicine we just scratched our genetic code and are about to be able to make change to help those unable to have healthy offspring

Exactly!

If Jesus was God, one would think that while he was here on Earth, healing people and teaching people how to live correctly, he might have told us about germs and the importance of washing one's hands after laying them on the sick!

But the germs were killed during the process.

reply to post by Logarock

But the germs were killed during the process.

Oh really?!

So, I suppose no one will ever contract MRSA in a Catholic hospital or catch a head cold at church, or get food poison from a bad batch of chicken salad at a church pot luck!

Sure! I believe that! NOT!!!!

Frogs and snakes = BAAAAD! But cockroaches and spiders = 0

LOL = Laughing Out Loud!

reply to post by windword


Hay besides, Jesus didn't have to teach them about germs and hand washing. The Pharisees must have been doing that because they got all over Jesus for not washing before eating once. So they must have know for Petes sake!

Jesus said to them..." you are the ones that make clean the dinner plate but inside your full of all sorts of corruption".

reply to post by Logarock

they don't know what they are talking about and apologizing for all those that died at the hands of atheist inspired ideologies.

Sorry to interrupt your argument with windword, but, WHAT?

How many people have died at the hands of "atheist-inspired ideologies"? Religion is, hands down, the BIGGEST cause of war and death over the ages. This can NOT be refuted.

reply to post by wildtimes


Not in the last century! The communists and the Nazis have that honor.

reply to post by Logarock


Aren't you forgetting the "Arab Spring" and Middle East problems? Car-bombings, suicide-bombers, chemical weapons, refugees, etc.?