Has the past decade stolen the soul of Americans? Case study of recent DC Immolation with precedents

reply to post by Klassified

The state our country is in has nothing to do with the left/right circus that Washed up DC is. It has a lot to do with a large group of people who are supposed to be serving the American public, instead of setting themselves up as overlords of the serfs.

Indeed. If I direct temporary scorn at one party or another, it is just in that moment. BOTH parties have sold our country down the river. The binary game of... "Hey man, you don't like those guys, right? Well vote for these guys!" has been going on way too long. The two party business is just divide and conquer, because for all their differences, both parties seem heavily in favor of government totalitarianism, and serving corporate and financial slavemasters.

Truth be told, I think we lost our country when we allowed the Fed to be created. Some of our greatest presidents, however you feel about them otherwise, have been those that have warned us about the dangers of the banks, and taken decisive action against them. That is the one thing about Jackson's presidency that I can agree with, at least.

reply to post by IrishCream

What about this man? Do we even know his name, have pictures of him NOT on fire? Where is his family, people that knew him, his partner who was rumored to have recorded the whole incident? Ms. Carey's sisters are all over the news being interviewed at nauseum. They're demanding answers, they want to know what really happened. The story is still all over the news, well as much as it can be given the current situation.

Exactly. I think this is the proper response that a less-numbed, more self-aware public would have given maybe 30-40 years ago. "Why did it happen? What motivated a man to sacrafice himself for such a grotesque statement?"

The gravity of such acts to me, and in such a place demands introspection. This should have chilled the country, much more so than the random acts of a madman killing children have, as Wrabbit has pointed out.

Is it just that we are all so soaked in media of every kind we are desensitized to that which carries actual weight? You can see from this topic that the question of, "Why doesn't this matter to people???" is as relavent as why it is happened is to me.

Am I surprised? No.

Am I dissappointed?

reply to post by benrl


The internet does connect us. We feel rage, we feel shame, we feel helpless and we now feel hopeless.

We do the one thing that we can do. We vent. We accept that we feel incapable of making a change, making a difference.

Like the little boy throwing the starfish back into the ocean, we hope that our cry will be heard by one person. One person that maybe can do what we have stopped trying to do.

We hope that they can see what we have become and fear becoming us more than they fear taking the risk to be better than us.

The reason we've gotten so little coverage of this story is due to censorship. An act like this only happens when there are severe systemic underlying issues with the country. If the media acknowledges the problem, the government has the acknowledge the problem. Doing so makes the entire country aware of the issues. The problem with that is this is a battle the government won't win. The only defense is to hide the underlying problems, attempting to solve them runs a high risk of revolt and collapse because we've allowed the situation to deteriorate to such a point.

This story is proof that we no longer have freedom of the press, if that wasn't already apparent.

Aazadan
The reason we've gotten so little coverage of this story is due to censorship. An act like this only happens when there are severe systemic underlying issues with the country. If the media acknowledges the problem, the government has the acknowledge the problem. Doing so makes the entire country aware of the issues. The problem with that is this is a battle the government won't win. The only defense is to hide the underlying problems, attempting to solve them runs a high risk of revolt and collapse because we've allowed the situation to deteriorate to such a point.

edit on 6-10-2013 by Aazadan because: (no reason given)

I think this is a very insightful response. Perhaps Diem gave the opposite response he should have. Maybe you are right. To acknowledge this act and acts like this, and to admit having no solution is an act of weakness which government officials are terrified to show. Victory over such acts would be the viking way then... dooming your enemy's name to obscurity.

It seems all the more important then that people share things like this over social media. If the press won't acknowledge it, they must be forced to with overwhelming public anger. That was the how the public took to it during Vietnam, and maybe that is what our present situation demands.

I think the government has plans for that too though. It is almost like they want people mad, but don't want them to know what they are mad about, or at least all be mad about different things, and thus lack any momentum. That was the downfall of the occupy fiasco, and it is an easy situation for officials to manage.

joeraynor
reply to post by IrishCream

 

What about this man? Do we even know his name, have pictures of him NOT on fire? Where is his family, people that knew him, his partner who was rumored to have recorded the whole incident? Ms. Carey's sisters are all over the news being interviewed at nauseum. They're demanding answers, they want to know what really happened. The story is still all over the news, well as much as it can be given the current situation.

Exactly. I think this is the proper response that a less-numbed, more self-aware public would have given maybe 30-40 years ago. "Why did it happen? What motivated a man to sacrafice himself for such a grotesque statement?"

The gravity of such acts to me, and in such a place demands introspection. This should have chilled the country, much more so than the random acts of a madman killing children have, as Wrabbit has pointed out.

Is it just that we are all so soaked in media of every kind we are desensitized to that which carries actual weight? You can see from this topic that the question of, "Why doesn't this matter to people???" is as relavent as why it is happened is to me.

Am I surprised? No.

Am I dissappointed?

YES! At least I am disappointed, but like you I am not surprised... by the rest of the country's reaction, or lack there of. What surprises me quite honestly is this community's lack of reaction!! Hell's bells, our motto is "Deny Ignorance", how much more ignorant could any situation be?!

This thread has been up for hours and hours, yet we have less than two full pages of replies. There are more flags than replies, this disturbs me to no end! Maybe the OP should have put "Elvis" or "Shutdown" or even "ISON" in the title to garner the attention this deserves!!!!

GRRRRRR

reply to post by joeraynor


So, you're conflating this suicide with Obamacare. You've got nothing behind that assertion. Nothing at all. As if corralling Insurance Company abuses is reason for someone (other than an Insurance Industry lobbyist) to commit suicide. This is trash. This place sure attracts the lowest form of human expression sometimes.

This thread has been up for hours and hours, yet we have less than two full pages of replies. There are more flags than replies, this disturbs me to no end! Maybe the OP should have put "Elvis" or "Shutdown" or even "ISON" in the title to garner the attention this deserves!!!! GRRRRRR

reply to post by IrishCream


Calm down.

Remember you are at ATS.

You don't get stars and flags for post with real content, or post that are meaningful, or important.

The fact that he has so few responders, and so few stars and flags, shows that he has a thread that few can dispute without looking like a troll, or a jackass.

Of course we do have those members don't care about looking like either, but most ATSers, especially those that are lurkers, quietly and respectfully slip away from the real threads, the ones that really hit in the solar plexus.

So though it is backwards, the way so many things have become in our brave new world order; less often means more.

He just realized his country is burning

Wanted to send an OVERWHELMINGLY STRONG MESSAGE

Too bad the Government is shutdown they arn't paid to care in their free time they are just paid.


Now ask yourselves this question.

"Why are federal employees exempt from obamacare?"

Then this one

"Why are the only 2 operational services for the Government that are being funded The Military Industrial Complex and Obamacare"

Is it because the massive restructuring of wealth that comes with Obamacare is being initiated now
and the Government shut down is timed with it so they can have an excuse not to listen to the screams and cries of their people?

After all a great deal of the Members of the Political establishment are Pro-Euthenasia Pro-Military Pro-Depopulation.

In some ways this existence is my idea of Hell.

If I went to hell for my sins I am sure I would wake up typing this message out to ignorant people who are just going to say im a troll.

I have been considering converting to Judaism. but not the modern version.

reply to post by NightSkyeB4Dawn


Thank you NightSkye, that actually helps on some strange level haha! And it is so very true, this is a very "delicate" situation that could not possibly be responded to negatively without scorn... which is probably why there are more flags than replies.

It still boils my blood that this is the point we're at, not surprised, just deeply disappointed *sigh*.

reply to post by NorEaster


Not particularly. That is just the backdrop of the moment. I don't think it is known why he did it, but my guess it was a gesture toward congress' actions toward the ACA which led to the shutdown, much more than the ACA itself.

As another poster just said, he realized his country was burning. For the ACA? Hardly. But the shutdown, and more importantly the threat of sending the country into a crippling default is indicative of the times.

As an aside on the ACA, I only wish the thing did nothing more than counter insurance companies. As it stands, it really does look like the thing was written by insurance lobbyists. Trapping people into buying care? Forcing them to buy it at rates which will now reflect that coercion? Every major bill like this has been written by lobbyists, I think that is where you go wrong. It still contains a few nice little apples, like forcing the companies to take on people with pre-existing conditions, but those are buried in 20 layers of corporatist kow-towing. I want everyone to have healthcare, but violating the constitution to do it isn't the way.

I am just thinking out loud here, but I feel like it probably wasn't just one thing that led him to act... the country has been slipping in lots of ways for decades. But you do have to admit that in lieu of giving us a note or statement, that his gesture toward congress can only be taken to indicate its actions over the past year, and perhaps past month. It really isn't too much of a stretch to me.

Klassified
None of us knows at this point why this man did this. We have a few gestures to go on, and that's all. IF his reasoning was to make a point about the state of our country, as the OP has postulated, then it is insulting to this mans memory to make it a partisan issue.

There could have been reasons behind it, and the reasons could have been investigated by reporters, but the reporters chose not to pursue it. That says as much about what is going on as anything.

A better way to self immolate would be in an airplane, just fly to 9500 feet in a small Cessna over the Whitehouse and Kamikaze right into the dome.. That would send a real message. Even if missiles were shot at it, it would still crash into the building.

I'm not suggesting anyone to do this, just pointing out it would be a better way to send a message while on fire.

alienreality
A better way to self immolate would be in an airplane, just fly to 9500 feet in a small Cessna over the Whitehouse and Kamikaze right into the dome.. That would send a real message. Even if missiles were shot at it, it would still crash into the building.

I'm not suggesting anyone to do this, just pointing out it would be a better way to send a message while on fire.

I disagree. While destruction of public property often happens during protests I find it rather disrespectful. A protest is about policy, not objects. Taking a guess at this mans actions, he holds the idea of America as being important to him. A functioning representative democracy. By saluting he was potentially showing both respect for the country and a large FU to the ones currently running things. He was trying the ultimate form of peaceful protest. When you instead make the leap to flying planes into buildings you lose that peaceful part of the equation and the statement becomes something else all together. It represents a giving up on the system and saying armed conflict is the only way to settle our differences.

It would also be quite unwise, this man showed foresight with his actions and location. If he simply flew a plane at the white house he would be deemed an insane terrorist, his message would be lost, and he would quite possibly become the catalyst for future draconian measures.

alienreality
A better way to self immolate would be in an airplane, just fly to 9500 feet in a small Cessna over the Whitehouse and Kamikaze right into the dome.. That would send a real message. Even if missiles were shot at it, it would still crash into the building.

I'm not suggesting anyone to do this, just pointing out it would be a better way to send a message while on fire.

and posting something like that post has gotten you put on a watch list and every one who posts on this thread.
one needs to think before they post nowadays and use discretion, even if you use a qualifier.

reply to post by 727Sky


I'll remember that sex sells if I'm ever recording my self-immolation.

If someone wants to burn themselves go ahead. It shows a want for death not a real protest against something changeable.

alienreality
A better way to self immolate would be in an airplane, just fly to 9500 feet in a small Cessna over the Whitehouse and Kamikaze right into the dome.. That would send a real message. Even if missiles were shot at it, it would still crash into the building.

I'm not suggesting anyone to do this, just pointing out it would be a better way to send a message while on fire.

anon29
reply to post by 727Sky

 

I'll remember that sex sells if I'm ever recording my self-immolation.

MadMax9
If someone wants to burn themselves go ahead. It shows a want for death not a real protest against something changeable.

This is the way the thread is going to go?! *shaking head*

The few that realise the scope of the deception and have nothing to lose go about making profound statements like self immolation. Most are stuck in the daily grind of trying to earn a living in increasingly difficult times and have no time and energy left to see things for what they are.

Society has been cheapened by materialism and egocentrism.

Ignorance is blissful till you are forced to wake up, and then its like a 16 wheeler truck hitting and crushing your soul.

I could give plenty of examples of satanism but those that like truth can find it on their own.

darkbake

Klassified
None of us knows at this point why this man did this. We have a few gestures to go on, and that's all. IF his reasoning was to make a point about the state of our country, as the OP has postulated, then it is insulting to this mans memory to make it a partisan issue.

There could have been reasons behind it, and the reasons could have been investigated by reporters, but the reporters chose not to pursue it. That says as much about what is going on as anything.

What does it say? That whatever it is going to say was completely made up with the "could have" modifier?

I guess there are still no details on who he is....