Has the past decade stolen the soul of Americans? Case study of recent DC Immolation with precedents

For those who aren't yet aware, a man strolled up along the National Mall (that really over-photographed grassy place in DC where you can stand and see the Capitol building, whitehouse and Washington monument all in front of you in different directions, and where Martin Luther King Junior gave that famous address) a couple days back, doused himself in gasoline, and proceded to give what appeared to be a "military" salute toward the capitol building, before lighting himself on fire. He was put out about a minute later by passersby, but he died a day later in the hospital, without speaking a word apparently.

Before I go further, I think I should go into detail on 2 significant times the same thing has been done this past 50 years.

Thich Quang Duc (1963):



This man was a South Vietnamese Monk who self immolated in protest to the treatment the Buddhists, who despite making up a sizable majority of the country, were facing at the hands of the ruling administration led by Ngo Dinh Diem. In reference to this act, and the famous photograph of the event which powerfully depicts the monk sitting ablaze yet serenely motionless, President Kennedy went so far as to say, “No news picture in history has generated so much emotion around the world as that one." Diem himself was said to have been profoundly troubled by the event, and gave speeches immediately to try futiley to calm the anger and passion the event was kindling.

Could you imagine our old 'Barry getting that excited about anything in the world? Sometimes I feel like that generation was somehow more human or something, and possessed of a shred more decency. I know that probably isn't true, but people today do a good job of hiding their better graces if they are there.

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Mohamed Bouazizi (2011):



This other obvious precedent happened quite recently. Some of you might remember that this is the case of the produce merchant who was harrassed by police, and had his equipment and produce repeatedly stolen by police, leaving him unable to support his family. After seeing the governor and proclaiming he would set himself on fire if his equipment wasn't returned, he did exactly that an hour later, at a busy intersection. Tunisia, which was on the brink of revolution at that point, was pushed over the edge and began the movement that later inspired the rest of the Arab Spring that year.

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Now why the build-up? Why do I give all of this background? Well, days ago we had this:



A man gives a "military" salute to the capitol building and then self immolates. Now the other two situations I list happened at critical junctures, and were recognized for the strong symbolism they evoked, in one case very consciously symbolic, and the other probably incidental but sincere. But we are certainly at a significant juncture here too.

We all know the "obam-ination" (obama-nation?) in the form of the Affordable Care Act that is now forcing americans to obtain insurance at special new captive-audience prices from insurance companies, or pay the price, which we have both parties to thank for (the democrats for creating it, and the Republicans for carefully weeding out any clause that might have helped anyone, while incidentily saving all the corporatist provisions). We know the pain this is causing the country, the layoffs, the lost hours, the employees who were eliminated before they worked hour one. We also know the destruction which the Republicans of Congress have wrought in response to it, refusing to pass a budget until the thing was repealed. They have brought us a completely unecessary governemnt shutdown which will cost the country billions, and which will lead to some people having their pay delayed, and others losing it entirely. Most of us also know that this thing is quickly reaching the point of government default, which quire frankly will destroy our country in one blow. Very few of us like the ACA, but the display the Republicans have given here is disgusting. They are holding the very future of the country hostage to get their demands fulfilled.

And of course to most of us that month of congressionally-sponsored madness is just icing to a collapse that has been in motion since the 70's, but that is a discussion for another time.

We don't have a motive in this case, but I think it is safe to surmise that this gentleman probably felt his salute and gesture toward the Capitol building was explanation enough for what was going on in his head.

What really captivates me here though, is the lack of any meaningful response of any kind from the American people or the media, or any politician. I mean a man just set himself ON FIRE in the middle of the most symbolic piece of earth probably in the whole country, and indicated both love of country and possible condemnation for the three ring circus in two houses going on in congress. This was an act of incredible desperation meant to pierce as deeply as this individual was capable into people's psyches. He mustered more passion and intent for a single moment than many ever attain at any time in their lives.

And his statement has been ignored.

President Kennedy once called such an act and image one that stirred more emotions than any other.

A man does the same in Obama's Backyard, may very well have condemned his political enemies even, and Barry is silent. Is it possible that this man could have been his son? Does someone need a hoody to get Obama's attention now?

I wouldn't have expected much from that apparently soul-less, one-man-constitutional-wrecking-crew, but I expected more from Americans than that. I refuse to believe they are the mindless and disenfranchised lot we are led to believe. I mean I know we aren't Buddhists here, but the gravity of such an act shouldn't be lost on any modern person, surely?

Sad.

What ?

No stars and flags ?



If he was a TIBETAN, you bet your last buck many toms dicks and harrys will jump on the bandwagon.



huh !!! still waiting for Richard Gere/Dry Llama to say something.


SnF btw.

Well, people are far too worried about Miley's twerking on the VMAs, their iPhone 5, working 2 jobs to keep the lights on, and what's on TV tonight, to be worried about some dude who doused himself with gasoline and set himself on fire.

"Ain't nobody got time fo' dat!"

Sad, isn't it?

reply to post by mypan


It's not that we don't care...it's a question of what there is to say about it?

We're now starting to see the brave and determined ones...who aren't monsters. We've seen the stupid monster types snapping like dry twigs up to now. The cowards will kill 20 people or kids in a spree shooting then shoot themselves. Cowards to a man.

These ones? Well.... again, what can you say? They choose the most public and horrendous ways to die for protest. Burning alive...is among the very worst I can imagine, so to see it in protest? It's a major eye opener.

The spree killers have been too though. Same thing. People are breaking and snapping. Some to become homicidal....some suicidal..and some? Well, Self Immolation is a statement like no other. That's for certain.

America is far too jaded and self centered to be concerned about some random weirdo setting himself on fire.

Most Americans, if they even noticed it, have already forgotten it and moved on.

reply to post by watchitburn


Which is why the OP is correct on so many levels. America has sold its soul for a big mac and fries, the next big thing. People say America is going to hell. I say we're already there and we just haven't noticed the heat yet.

None of us knows at this point why this man did this. We have a few gestures to go on, and that's all. IF his reasoning was to make a point about the state of our country, as the OP has postulated, then it is insulting to this mans memory to make it a partisan issue.

The state our country is in has nothing to do with the left/right circus that Washed up DC is. It has a lot to do with a large group of people who are supposed to be serving the American public, instead of setting themselves up as overlords of the serfs.

It has even more to do with an American public who miserably failed to heed the warnings given to them by those who were instrumental in the founding of this country. Unfortunately, it will be too late by the time enough Americans figure it out. If they ever do.

Sometimes it takes little actions to make people wake up and think.

Sometimes it takes big and horrible actions to achieve the same.

But the world is soaked in horror now, down to war, crime, hunger, disease and even the unborn are not safe from slaughter and their carcasses being used for profit in the mega corporate world we live in.


Living in an abattoir is not pretty but if it's all you've ever known........how are you to know that it wasn't meant to be like this........something went badly wrong somewhere along the line.

Maybe this poor man 'woke up' and could not bear what he saw.

Either way, something moved him deeply enough to destroy himself in this terrible way.

I am so sorry for his suffering. May he find the 'better world' that is surely out there, somewhere.

What a horrible way to die; nothing brings to mind more pain and suffering; incredible, horrible, sickening to me and I hope others!

Americans did not do anything about the spying, NDAA, Snowden, or several other 3 and 4 letter bills passed that affect everyone in the country if not the world; so why would you expect them to give a rats hinny about some poor man who tried to make a public statement without leaving a note ?

On a T.V. movie called 1000 ways to die they had a young man who took several pills to enhance sexual performance... He had two dates that night with two ladies who were rather demanding of his sexual favors so wanting to please he popped 8 (?) or 10 (?) pills. One thing remained strong but alas his heart was not one of them; he died in the act of pleasing and giving. RIP

With the state of the American hive mind the guy who immolated himself would have been better off taking the pills, writing a note of his grievances, making a video at some legal whore house and texting some pics to the Whitehouse... heck of a better way to kill himself and the pics and video would sooner or later have been leaked... Probably more would have seen his demise and cared about as much.... maybe gotten as many or more views. ...

I would like to know more about the guys back ground...was he X- or current military...Was he or had he been on psychotropic drugs and reached a point where he could not afford or receive the drugs any longer ?

Whatever the reason for his actions..... judging by the lack of caring and compassion that has been demonstrated by the hive.... He would have been better off if he wanted to make a statement by just taking the darn pills and going to Nevada with a camera.

Sorry if the above might sound heartless but the whole burning thing is totally grotesque and judging by the results his actions were for naught.... except a disturbed man gave his life for what he deemed a worthy cause and reason.. I want to know what drove the man to commit the act.

Just a personal opinion about what it might take to stir the hive... We have the budget coming up, the dollar in crisis, Obamacare and the cost of the program which will become more apparent at the end of 2015... so IMO that is the time frame or window which might poke a stick at the hive and get the little worker bees stirred up. Even then I have my doubts; not enough workers.

This is a screen shot of a search
I did on ATS in July 2011
using the keywords "Burns", "Himself"



[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b58df7f0d7b5.png[/atsimg]



Here is my comment on the longest running discussion from June of 2011
Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison

So why did he lose his job in 2009?

Now to contribute to the discussion in this thread.

I see it like this.

Who has the moral authority ... in this Country?

Is it the nexus of insurance companies and Government who have destroyed our doctors,
over the past forty years,
so that now they can sell us a universal medical solution,
all in the shadow of pillaging our pensions,
and veteran benefits.

Is it the credit card companies and their so-called credit ratings?
Who received trillions in bail out money,
because they over gambled with their financial investments.

Or is it the person vilified on TV every day.
The lone ex-military male.
The one with weapon training,
a bad credit rating,
no family doctor.




The only kind of losing-of-the-soul I see going on in this country,
is that the establishment has killed all of our noble characters
and now they are accusing us of a lack of nobility.

/salute
Mike

In my opinion, the act of immolation is something, or one of those things people wish to block from their minds.
With all the bombardment of information in our daily lives today, we have little retention of thought, so ignoring or forgetting is easy to do.
So if you are going to burn yourself, do it while you juggle chainsaws as you are shot out of a cannon through the Whitehouse front door in a pink tutu, otherwise most people won't notice, or they are already onto the next days news or are concerned about if their football team is going to win tonight.
If you are going to go big, be entertaining as well, people pay attention when they are entertained.

reply to post by joeraynor


sadly because this man was black, Obama won't touch it..

I mean, life is great in America, the savior and all.

reply to post by Toadmund


Sad reflection of the American people if SETTING YOURSELF ON FIRE fails to spark a public debate at least! Perhaps it's more proof of the media's influence? Either way, this place is looking lost. The majority are content (more may be talking, but that is as cheap as it gets when it comes to actions) and I don't see anything but submission. There's little pockets of hope like this site, but all in all, it's a damn shame.

I have to say that this absolutely breaks my heart! Friday evening/night after I heard about this horrific event (from here) I looked for MSM sources, scouring the interwebs in the hopes of finding out what they were telling the public about it... nothing, NOTHING!! In fact, several websites were actually down. I thought it might just be an issue with Google Chrome, but no, IE wouldn't bring them up and neither would my phone. I thought that was strange, but nothing too troubling considering the amount of traffic they would most likely be having. However the next morning I searched again and though all the sites were working, I found very few articles or videos on the event. Why not?! Seriously... a man SET HIMSELF ON FIRE!!!!!!

By Thursday evening we knew "everything" about Miriam Carey! Family photos were released, medical records were made public, private details of her life were now common public knowledge! They made haste in ensuring "we the people" would write her off as just another case of mental illness gone berserk! We even had the convenient "Obama was stalking me" reason.

What about this man? Do we even know his name, have pictures of him NOT on fire? Where is his family, people that knew him, his partner who was rumored to have recorded the whole incident? Ms. Carey's sisters are all over the news being interviewed at nauseum. They're demanding answers, they want to know what really happened. The story is still all over the news, well as much as it can be given the current situation.

This man has died because of his injuries, died after making such a poignant statement and we still have NO IDEA what the statement was, what his motives were. I am actually angry that this has received so little attention. I was even going to create my own thread about this, but the OP has beat me to it and with much more back-story than I would have been able to present! I appreciate this thread, S&F for sure!

I am utterly amazed the MSM hasn't flooded itself with details about this man...such as, first and foremost, he was mentally unbalanced.....


That seems to be the first place it goes these days. Show that he was "sick". Show that his statement was the statement of a "sick mind".


Discredit the statement.



I should admit, I don't watch MSM all that much except in the morings I go to work and I'm drinking a cup of coffee. Maybe this has happened already. Hard to tell.




-SN

For years now I have felt that i is not just the government that is wrong with America. It is also Americans the people. These past ten years or more my fellow countrymen have disgusted me in there lack of empathy. Millions lose they're homes, the banks get bailed out and the American people listened to the corporate media hype instead of listening to there hearts and pointed the finger at the victims and gave the machine a free pass.

It happens over and over again, issue after issue and the mind numbed American populace just yawns. I wish I could leave this nation of selfish, stupid, greedy, finger pointing, politically correct dumb asses.

I was shocked when it happened and felt deeply for this poor soul, I mentioned it at work and no one reacted! I thought they have been slowly brainwashed to let the major signs of a need for moral course correction to slide off. They are trained to think it was all the victim of the systems fault.

Bye bye miss American pie, went to the levy but the levy was dry.

When the levy breaks it wont matter because it is dry...

We were formed during the solstice of the dark star (July 4th) of 1776 (the year of the illuminated one) in order to become the beast. This nation is the child of the dark one. WE ARE LEGION.

I believe more is going on here then meets the eye.

Or should I say we are only seeing what we are being told to see. We have grown very complacent with being told what to do and what to think. There are a few of us out there, seriously infected, but still have the ability to see far enough past the veil to know that something is just not right. We will soon fall in line, be re-educated or eliminated as necessary.


I have made several comments around the boards about the state of our country today. It is impossible for anyone that still has the ability to see, not to recognize that our country has changed so much that it is almost unrecognizable. I have heard people saying for a long time that either they feel cuckoo or that someone else is cuckoo and maybe they are closer to the truth then they realize. Few people know very much about the Cuckoo bird. Many think that it is a clock and doesn’t even exist in the real word; but the Cuckoo is an extremely interesting species.

Imagine a species so clever and sophisticated that it can take over an entire rival species without fighting or killing (outright) any of their enemy. Imagine taking over a species with no more than the act of love and sex. Imagine raising armies of your species, not just in front of your enemy’s eyes, but your enemy willingly and with great honor, feeds, clothes, nurtures and rears your army, even while sometimes leaving their own to die for lack of sustenance. The whole thing sounds cuckoo; and if you had better knowledge of the little bird you would know that being cuckoo can be real genius.

I am slowly trying to grasp the strangeness that is going on around me. While suddenly they had me ready to embrace the whole Zombie, Reptilian thing, because, it was starting to fit the impossible belief that one comes to, when utilizing Ockham's razor as a tool for scraping out the truth, I have scrapped up another bit of strangeness that seems to fit better than all the others.

Maybe many of us are more Cuckoo than we care to believe. Maybe this is why we are slowly losing our ability to show compassion and love for each other. Maybe this is why we can look at videos of children lying in the dirt dying of starvation while drinking our GMO and aspartame-laden snacks and move on to the next electronic titillation. Maybe it explains how we can watch our humanity die before us with no desire or need to even change the channel. I thought for us to have reached this low of a point that we could not possibly be alive. We have to be the walking dead. I said as much here. www.abovetopsecret.com...

Well maybe I was wrong then, and maybe I am wrong now; but I feel in my heart of hearts that something is seriously wrong. Maybe I will never know the truth, but until they come clean or they just clean me, I will keep trying to make sense out of the world that has become a foreign land around me.

If you don’t like Wikipedia, there are numerous other sites that will yield you excellent results, if you are interested.

“The Common Cuckoo presents an interesting case in which the species as a whole parasitizes a wide variety of hosts, including the Reed Warbler and Dunnock, but individual females specialize in a single species. Genes regulating egg coloration appear to be passed down exclusively along the maternal line, allowing females to lay mimetic eggs in the nest of the species they specialize in. Females generally parasitize nests of the species which raised them. Male Common Cuckoos will fertilize females of all lines, maintaining sufficient gene flow among the different maternal lines.[9]”

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by HanzHenry


Please don't fall for this old trap. Black, White, Brown, Yellow, has nothing to do with this.

We know that the government has gone rogue. We know that the handful of people that hold the real wealth on this planet are in complete control of our governments; All Of Them!

We can't afford to willing drop into their nets lined with greed, selfishness, vanity and superficial hope.

Forget about Obama or anyone else that you think is going to come riding up on a white stead to save you. If you have any chance at being saved it will be because you have saved yourself.

Stop thinking that someone owes you something. Stop thinking that you own something, other than yourself. Stop feeding the wolf that is consuming you and holding your prisoner.

Stop thinking that you "have" to have more than the other animals on this planet. Learn the life saving truth that there is an ocean between what you "need" and what you "want". You "need shelter, you need food and you need water.

We can't afford to play the make-believe game any more; that includes the my God is bigger, better, badder,...., than you God, bull crap. If you don't care about yourself and if you don't give a damn about anyone else, at least think about the children. Don't they deserve a chance? Okay. We screwed up. We screwed up big time; but we don't have the right to throw away the only chance that the children may have to surviving this fiasco.

We can't start trying to salvage something out of these ashes unless we start sifting through the dregs and pulling out items we still maybe be able to save.

If we search together, dig deep enough and look hard enough we may stumble across some common sense, some courage; love and compassion may even be still left somewhere.

We have got to pull the plug and we have to start now. Time is quickly running out.

THere is a fine line between brave and insane. Without knowing what was in that guys head, how can we determine which one he was?

So...who was he? His background story?

Events like this once would give pause for all to stop and look at the situation that would drive a man to this.

Now we have become a nation of commentators, everyone talking, no one doing.

The ultimate risk of the internet in my opinion is it makes people think talking is doing.

Here we have a man driven to the edge, so much so that he knew nothing else to do, what ever drove him to that hardly matters.

What matters is we have it happening and worse we have a nation thats self important apathy barely causes a ripple...

We really are lost.