why liberals side with muslims?

Quality post Earthtone .

Originally posted by TheRepublic
it just seems to me that as a whole though that many on the left have empathy for the moslems,

Why shouldn't there be empathy for muslims? They're been pretty well screwed over for the past hundred years. Having empathy for an entire people doesn't mean that one accepts or condones murder or even has empathy for radical terrorists . One could feel sorry for the way the irish got the shaft without being an advocate for sinn fein or the ira. Having said that, I tend to not feel too bad for arabs (as a smaller subset of muslims) particularly, and palestinians especially. They had the oppurtunity to change things, but didn't take it.

Its like medeival history, one the one hand, you feel sorry for the serfs, but on the other, well, they didn't do very much to help themselves now did they?

I guess this is kind of irrelevant since I'm not a 'liberal', nor even a leftist either, but still, everyone who's a decent person should feel sorry for muslims in general, even if they want to destroy terrorists in particular.

The "palestinians" have a homeland created by the UN. It's called Jordan. Vlad the Palestinian better known as Yasar (the egyptial) had used them for years, as have other "Muslim" leaders. I would again expect Lib's to identify with pure EVIL. Muslims = EVIL, period! There will be no MUSLIMs in heaven unless they come to Christ.

Nygdan

i really apreicate your post, and many of the others posted here.
it seems ive gotten exactly what i wanted to know.

i can certainly understand feeling bad for an oppressed people,
but honestly it still seems so shocking to me when you look at the inftadah (spelling?) that people would feel empathy with them.

but what im getting is its not really empathy for the terrorist but the innocents caught up in it.

but do the innocents support what the terrorist are doing do you think?

if they do are they really innocent?

once again i apreciate all the well informed posts

Originally posted by TheRepublic
when you look at the inftadah (spelling?) that people would feel empathy with them.

Yeah i mean, if the palestianians hate the isrealis so much, then get your guns, slings, mortars rocks and clubs and invade israel, en mass. I suspect that, even with tanks and machine guns and artillery, that they won't be able to stop them. THere are lots more palestinians than isrealis, not to mention the large population of foreign arabs that have moved into the PA territory. If they want freedom, then they should fight for it. ANd the other arabs should join them. Oh wait, that already happened, and the isrealis won. The palestinains gave up and were defeated. I can sympathize with people fighting for their freedom, but the palestinians? They're like the oft talked about "sheeple", lead by the nose by arafat. If they aren;'t willing to fight for an Independant Palestine, then they don't deserve it.

but do the innocents support what the terrorist are doing do you think?

Yeah, thats another complex issue. In WWII, the non nazi germans, who maybe disagreed with the state, still went along with it, because they were 'good germans'. Don't rock the boat and what not. Now, years later, the entire nation carries this social guilt at having been complicite to mass murder and genocide. I don't think that the average middle class sububanite iraqi can do much about it tho, and I've seen them speak out against these disgusting acts of the insurgents. But what I'd really like to see is a crowd in the street tearing al zarqawi to peices and cracking open the skulls of some of those foreign fighters. But, agian, their situation is, complex. THe people in say, waziristan, are a little different on this matter. They seem to pretty much be pro-taliban pro-alqaida types, in the mosques and in the fields. So there is a wide spectrum of 'complicity' here.

And of course, it goes both ways. The West gave hussein chemical weapons. The US supports the saudis. And, at least from what I've seen on this board, a lot of people are just plain racists when it come to muslisms, and seem like they'd actually like to see all of them wiped out. Repugant. Anyway, good people on both sides need to take stronger stances.

Reading DrHoracid's post, I'm reminded of something else about us liberals... we know things are never black and white. We have the ability to see some merit in both the Jews' and the Muslims' cases. And we actually try to reconcile both.

Condemning an entire religion is not only heinous. It's lazy.

Originally posted by Nygdan
I don't think that the average middle class sububanite iraqi can do much about it tho, and I've seen them speak out against these disgusting acts of the insurgents. But what I'd really like to see is a crowd in the street tearing al zarqawi to peices and cracking open the skulls of some of those foreign fighters. But, agian, their situation is, complex.

There is one thing nobody is considering here, when they say people there should take more action. It is fear. The people are afraid of authority, of violent authority figures. That is something that is difficult to understand if you haven't been through it yourself.
I'll give you an example.
The dictator of my country died more then 20 years ago, his communist regime fell more then 15 years ago. It is common in opressive regimes to punish any kind of criticism or resistance with death. After all those years, even though we are a very democratic civilised society now, my father is STILL afraid to go out and protest against a corrupted goverment. So deep is the fear. A lot of you people in the west take your freedom and your mentality for granted and you think everyone feels the same way. That is simply not true.

During Saddam's reign, when he used to throw those "I am so great, worship me" parades, his police went from house to house to see who didn't go to watch the parade. If you were found at your home, healthy, able to walk, well..... bullet in the head. You could think that Saddam is evil, you could secretly curse him and hate him, but an actual action against him meant death.
Zarqawi is somewhat an authority, again with violent means of expressing his greatness. A lot of people are simply too afraid to do something about it.

Combine that with the fact that all those people knew their whole lives is WAR, and you have the mess that we see now.
They are used to fighting wars against foreign enemy, but they are not used to fighting against the enemy within.

Again, it is difficult to understand this mentality, if you haven't lived through it yourself.

would like to ask a question to those whose political leanings are to the left.

do you feel more empathy to the jews or the moslems?

if for the moslems is there a particular reason?

im not trying to be smart or clever, i would just like to know/

Neither.

I despise some of the extremes that Isreal has employed in dealing with the Palestinian problem.

But I despise the tactics of the Palestinians more, and have (since the idiocy displayed by them in Camp David) no more sympathy for their cause.

Arafat is a terrorist, simple as that.

I also despise the effort to demonize all muslims for the acts of largely the minority made up of extremists. Having lived in the middle east (Saudi Arabia to be specific), I have known many muslims to be very kind gentle people.

You can't assign the blame to the many, for actions of the few, no matter what side of the fence you're on.

I suppose I'd fall roughly into the category of "liberal", but I am all for the swift destruction of terrorism, and non-negotiation with them. That DOESN'T mean I blame all muslims for the acts of these extremists though. I've been priveledged enough to know them from real life instead of the media. Sadly, many have not been so lucky, and the only muslims that make the news, are those shouting, "Death to America" and blowing up innocents.

Yes, many conservatives do see in Black and White. Basically right and wrong. God see's in black and white. Right or Wrong. Isalm is wrong. It dismisses Christ and puts Mohamed in his place. Very simply WRONG and EVIL.

Originally posted by DrHoracid
Yes, many conservatives do see in Black and White. Basically right and wrong. God see's in black and white. Right or Wrong. Isalm is wrong. It dismisses Christ and puts Mohamed in his place. Very simply WRONG and EVIL.

Wrong....Christ was a prophet, not the Lord.

Mohammed is not Christ's replacement, he is the Last of all the Prophets.

In Islam, the only one worthy of worship is Allah, and no one else.

None are equal. Allah has no sons, and no partners. Allah is the only one worthy of worship.

Christians believe Jesus is the son of Allah, which is false.

Islam is pure monotheism.

[edit on 15-11-2004 by cstyle226]

Originally posted by DrHoracid
Yes, many conservatives do see in Black and White. Basically right and wrong. God see's in black and white. Right or Wrong. Isalm is wrong. It dismisses Christ and puts Mohamed in his place. Very simply WRONG and EVIL.

Yeah ok. And calling for murder is all good right? So jews are also evil right? Afterall, they don't worship christ right? Muslims don't replace christ with mohammed, they don't worship mohammed, they are monotheists, mohammed is their 'last prophet', not a god or the son of a god. I've even read that tehy recognize jesus as a prophet, but not as the 'son of god' and god, which is kind of a hard thing to distinguish from polytheism for most monotheists. They don't beleive he was crucified, because they don't beleive hoyl men have these sorts of things happen to them. And because of that you condem then as wrong and evil? You are the one who is wrong.

Islam is pure monotheism.

So is Judaism...

Originally posted by Gazrok

Islam is pure monotheism.

So is Judaism...

But they believe Allah has a son...which is wrong, so it isn't PURE monotheism.


[edit on 15-11-2004 by cstyle226]

[edit on 15-11-2004 by cstyle226]

No liberals don't side with Muslims

They side with the idea that the conservative right and it's ways have been fiddling around in middle eastern politics pretty much creating the reaosns why there are Islamic Fundementalists on a rise.

They want the US out of it's culture.. simple.

It's the conservative right which think America is the victim of Islamic Fundentalism.. when it is indeed the creator of a great deal of it.

[edit on 15-11-2004 by RedOctober90]

[edit on 15-11-2004 by RedOctober90]

I just love it when we get one of these posts from some better than everyone else republican wanna be. Geez, can you please go back to your middle class day job and quit posting this trash? Nobody here in the U.S. sides with the Taliban, the Muslims or anyone else other than our own and people like you who listen to drug addict hypocrits on the radio, Rush Limbaugh, and dump this hatred on the web should all get and advanced ticket to He.. where you will be in the end anyway.

GrndLkNatv

i think we had a very good conversation in this thread till you graced us with your presence

did you read the link i posted?

i did not create this off the top of my head

i couldnt if i tired

you should switch to de caf

Originally posted by TheRepublic
hahah, no

at least not in my opinion. the conflict between the arabs and jews leaves little room to be non objective.

im just wondering why as a whole liberals seem, or tend to side more with the fundamentalist muslims (in this case arafat) as opposed to a liberal secular state like israel.

by "side with" i mean show empathy for

perhaps I am biased since I am, in fact, an arab. Not a palestinian, but an arab nonetheless (I am lebanese). Also, being a revolutionary socialist, I view the whole situation with mixed feelings. Firstly, the fact that Sharon is the archterrorist is undeniable. No matter how much the al-Aqsa martyrs brigade or Hamas want that title, it is already hanging on Sharon's wall. However, Arafat has had plenty of opportunity from ehud barak to end this back in the clinton presidency. Both sides are to blame, however, I feel more sympathy towards the palestinian cause than the Israeli, since Israel has had a long and dark history of condoning and engaging in terrorism in Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, Libya and Palestine.

Okay can a muslim comment over here. First we blieve in jesus as a profit and not the son of god. Actually, we are forced to respect him and believe in him. Mohamed is not a replacment he is just another profect, the last one. We dont blieve jesus is son of a god he is just a Human just like all of us but blessed with a speial gift from god. We dont believe he was crusified cuz god wont lay down and watch his beloved profit die in this way. We repect christianity and judism. Now let me get things straight. We dont hate jews, (btw i am originally semtic), we hate zionists from israel who are using religion as a reason to stick in a land thats not even theirs. Now u guys tend to generilize on those who fight americans as terrorists. Some are bad, just like in any religion, there is always a bad person. But turst me the do believe in their right to fight those who invade them. And i bet americans will do the same if they get invaded.

Originally posted by intrepid
I've got a question, if I go with the Muslims, am I an anti-semite?

The Arabs are Semites, although not all Muslems are Arabs.

Yep thats true GradyPhilpott, and u get israel calling arabs anti-semtic.