why liberals side with muslims?

i would like to ask a question to those whose political leanings are to the left.

do you feel more empathy to the jews or the moslems?

if for the moslems is there a particular reason?

im not trying to be smart or clever, i would just like to know.

www.jpost.com.../JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1100332499747

I've got a question, if I go with the Muslims, am I an anti-semite?

hahah, no

at least not in my opinion. the conflict between the arabs and jews leaves little room to be non objective.

im just wondering why as a whole liberals seem, or tend to side more with the fundamentalist muslims (in this case arafat) as opposed to a liberal secular state like israel.

by "side with" i mean show empathy for

Originally posted by TheRepublic
hahah, no

at least not in my opinion. the conflict between the arabs and jews leaves little room to be non objective.

im just wondering why as a whole liberals seem, or tend to side more with the fundamentalist muslims (in this case arafat) as opposed to a liberal secular state like israel.

by "side with" i mean show empathy for

Good answer as Muslims are Semites as well. I can't figure out how being against Israel makes a person anti-semitic, unless you diss the Muslims as well.

Side point, I see NO difference between Arafat and Sharon. Different philosophy, cut from the same cloth.

Not necessarily Intrepid, but I meet very few people who pull for both Alabama and for Auburn!

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Not necessarily Intrepid, but I meet very few people who pull for both Alabama and for Auburn!

Sorry I've got to go with

intrepid

even though you see no diffrence between the two, will you agree that many on the left arnt like you in that regard?

it just seems to me that as a whole though that many on the left have empathy for the moslems, like the link above, which talks of french communists naming streets after arafat.

i was just wondering if you noticed this too?

I'm a Centrist mate, I don't let ANY party tell me how to think on any topic, and YES, I see NO difference between the 2 parties involved. Both have a lot to lose in peace. Politically.

oh well i dont think most political partys will take an official stand on this as it could cause problems.

it is an unofficial unspoken tendancy for leftist (not a party, but a group holding the same beliefs) to have empathy with the moslems.

im not trying to go into wether this is right or wrong i was just wondering if anyone else who has liberal, or left leaning tenedancies has noticed this, and if they found it odd.

Well, it's your opinion I 'spose, but I'm not sure it holds water. I don't know many political liberals who side with muslims over jews. In fact, I don't know many who side with EITHER muslims OR jews. I know this political liberal doesn't. Two sides of the same coin to me, if you are refering to the Isreali/Palestinian mess.

Are you sure your observations are correct?

yes i am sure my observations are correct,
in support of my observations here is the link again:
www.jpost.com.../JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1100332499747

but it could just as easily be said conservitives tend to side with the jews, this makes more sense to me, and i realise why conservatives tend to have emapthy for them.
my question is about liberals or those leaning to the left, i have no idea why they would trend to this direction
.
in case the link i posted goes down i will post it here:

FRENCH CONSIDER NAMING STREETS AFTER ARAFAT

Several French municipalities governed by communist and left-wing majorities are considering naming a street or a square after Yasser Arafat.

The French police intelligence service, Renseignements Generaux, reportedly warned the Ministry of Interior that such initiatives might trigger heated polemics and tensions between Jews and Muslims, especially neighborhoods ridden by ethnic violence.

In several suburban cities near Paris and Lyons governed by communist mayors, large Muslim and Jewish populations live side by side.

I certainly can't speak for the French, however it doesn't surprise me as they have a long tradition of supporting Arafat. I don't understand how certain parties in France wanting to rename a street has much to do with liberals as a whole supporting muslims? Not to mention the fact that French conservatives are somewhat more leftist than most other countries liberals.

You, of course, are free to believe what you will. All I can do is answer the question you asked in your original post. Most liberals of my aquaintance don't support muslims over jews.

I have always found it odd that some liberals show empathy for fundamentalist Muslims. They are the very opposite of progressive -- in countries that are dominated by fundamentalist Muslims, women have no rights, non-Muslims experience extreme prejudice, etc...

Originally posted by ThunderCloud
I have always found it odd that some liberals show empathy for fundamentalist Muslims. They are the very opposite of progressive -- in countries that are dominated by fundamentalist Muslims, women have no rights, non-Muslims experience extreme prejudice, etc...

I'm with Intrepid- I'm a centrist. Most of my world view is based in empathy, in trying to understand whos and whys instead of espousing a certain belief. Understanding helps, contrary to popular belief. I try to understand extremist muslims, the same as extremist christians, warmongers, or anyone else. I mean, why not? People are always shouting to kill terrorists, kill muslims, kill this, kill that- do they understand how much it affects people? Do they understand what makes people act a certain way?

Read your history, know your sociology. You want to understand terrorism, or extreme politics? Understand both fo those. Let's give you and example:

cultural influence is a massive factor in how a person grows up. If a person is indoctrinated in a given religious sect from an early age, what is the probability of them becoming a terrorist? What happens if they're poor too? Lose a family, especially in a culture where large extended families are viewed with importance?

Instead of killing all the terrorists, why don't we try to prevent more from emerging?Why not help them, help the culture and society instead of destroyign ti piece by piece?

DE

[edit on 15-11-2004 by DeusEx]

Originally posted by intrepid
I'm a Centrist mate, I don't let ANY party tell me how to think on any topic, and YES, I see NO difference between the 2 parties involved. Both have a lot to lose in peace. Politically.

No such thing as a centrist in my country, I don't care what SO thinks.

However, you just said a mouthful; Both have a lot to lose in peace. I must go and think about this a while. Thanks for the brain-jump!

hmmmm

I think most liberals have sympathy for all those people in detention... oh sorry, "refugee" camps/cities, people confined to live in one city, under curfew, they can leave it ONLY with written permission of Israeli goverment, they can't take the "israelis only" roads to hospital, they have to make 3 hour trip to avoid all setlements and those roads, they can't go to work, school, they are being regulary bombed, killed by snipers, children are growing up in a violent hopeless enviroment full of segregation and hate. They have a choice to live as second class citizens in a country created for Jews, it is called JEWISH STATE of Israel, or to live as second class citizens in neighbouring states and leave homes in which their families have lived for HUNDREDS of years. The whole world seems to be ok, and has been ok for 50 years, with such treatment of this minority (they used to be majority) in their own land.
They've been used by all neighbouring states to prove whatever their pathetic theory or goal was. They been used as human shield in wars between Israel and arab countries by all sides. They've been masacred, and the man responsible for it has been rewarded a seat as prime minister, and everyone thinks he is the holiest man on earth and only wants good for people. There isn't a single family there who hasn't lost someone in bombings or masacres. Countries like Lebanon and Syria are using the misery of these people to train them to kill, all extremist groups are supported by extremist groups from these countries.

During a short period of time in the late 90s when peace agreements were signed, schools opened, police formed, extremists arrested, work started, ALL with arafat around, their life was nice. Palestine was about to be officialy declared as independent state and those people would finaly have the RIGHT TO CHOSE HOW THEY WANT TO LIVE IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY, an ideal MANY on this board and around the world believe in too and would die defending.

But then radical right religious extremist wing made a comeback in the year 2000 and all effort was destroyed.... literaly, the entire working infrastructure was destroyed and nobody cared... I am not sure if you remember it, it happened while everyone was busy with another war, it was in november 2001...

So yeah, we liberals do feel sympathy for these people, who suffer and die because right wing nutters can't get over their arogance and PERSONAL revenge, and let them all live in peace.
We are not "siding with muslims", we are siding with humanity, peace, justice, hope, equality, human rights....

Oh yeah, before anyone craps the "you ar anti-semit" accusation, liberals do not want to see Israel destroyed nor do they support suicide bombings. We want violence to STOP, and we want equal rights for all.
If Israel had the right to become a state based on 3,000 year old myth/story, then palestinians have the right to have a state too, because they have lived on that piece of land for the last few hundred years and still do.

There is a pseudo-patriotism (i.e., false patriotism) raising its ugly head in America today. It consists of BLIND, TOTAL obedience to government; and BLIND, TOTAL trust in whatever the government and/or the establishment-CONTROLLED mainstream media say. It also oftentimes consists of waving an American flag made in Red China, plastering a bunch of "Support Our Troops magnents all over the car, and screaming such things as:"Bomb the heck out of (such and such country)!"

"Kill those (fill in the blank)!"

"How dare you question our President in a time of national crisis!"

"How dare you criticize our government!"

"Our government wouldn�t do anything bad!"

"There�s no such thing as a conspiracy, especially as concerns our fearless leaders!"

"Whatever ABC, CBS, CNN, Fox, or NBC tell us, well, it must be the gospel truth!"

etc., etc., ad nauseam!

We also hear top-level officials in our government making statements like:

"We will not tolerate outrageous conspiracy theories�"

"Anyone who questions the government�s [propaganda] line about the upcoming war with Iraq, antiterrorism legislation, etc. must be with al-Qaeda or controlled by Saddam Hussein."

We also hear high-level media types telling us such things as:

"Anyone who criticizes the government in this time of national crisis should be rounded up and put in detention centers!"

"Just wait�when the war [with Iraq] begins, we can bring those folks who criticize the government up on sedition charges!"

Play your cards very carefully USA gov....you are very wreckless and so are some of your acomplices. The veil is very thin and could be snatched away at a moments notice

"And say NOT thou, �My country, right or wrong�. NOR shed thy blood for an unhallowed cause." - John Quincy Adams (Sixth President of the United States), 1847

"Our country, right or wrong! When right, to be KEPT RIGHT; when wrong, to be PUT RIGHT!" - Carl Schurz, 1872 (in a speech to the US Senate)

" �Our country, right or wrong� is NOT patriotism�but a pestilent economic heresy."
J.E.T. Rogers, 1891

"The true patriot does NOT love his government. The true patriot LOVES his COUNTRY and WATCHES his government." - Author unknown (to this editor)

"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong." - Voltaire

I think many people look at how Israel has behaved towards the Palestinian people and how they have turned the full weight of their technically advanced military upon them at various times (as distinct to the wars she fought with her neighbours) and have sympathy for a people suffering that.

As regards the fundamentalism that has grown up there?

I doubt many are 'supportive' of this in any way.
I'd say it's more a case of it being completely understandable to many that they turn to 'pure' or extreme versions of their what has arisen from their own culture - particularly as they see 'ours' as complicit in the murderous hypocracy they experience almost daily.

The leftist side with the Muslims because it is a false religion. Evil is attracted to evil. Anything that is "anti-Christ" appeals to the "godless". Islam is anti-Christ.

This is an example of the "for-us-or-against-us" mentality of the Bush administration. This false patriotism. 'Either you want us to be invading a country or you are clearly a terrorist sympethizer...'

Nobody in their right mind supports people who blow up innocents, but what can you expect when the Palestinians are restricted, opressed, and attacked by Isreal. When you hear stories of women in labour being refused through Isreali checkpoints which block the way to hospital etc. you can realize why people want to fight.

This is the only understanding I might have with these people. I cannot ever justify it, and I do not support it.