There are enough Republican crossover votes to pass a clean CR, Boehner won't allow the vote

reply to post by beezzer


Mint chocolate chip shake

beezzer

Indigo5

beezzer

Second, other solutions have been brought forward, but the tyrant and his lackeys in the senate have squashed them flat so they never got to see the light of day.

Interesting...Could you please cite those failed bills? I follow these things closely and seem to have missed them? All I have seen from the GOP in terms of healthcare reform proposals are different flavors of "just die already!"...

I could do some homework, but you'd have to be partisan and blind to ignore all the other alternatives to Obamacare when it was being debated.

You mean the alternatives that the GOP have already added to the ACA? Which was built on the same framework as Mitt Romney's health care reform in Mass?

..or the individual mandate that was first proposed by Stuart Butler and Ed Haislmaier in 1989?

...or the exchanges that aloow Ins. providers to pool the risks which was first proposed by the House Republican leadership's "Solutions for America"?

...or the clause that allows for families and businesses to purchase Ins. across state lines? ~ Rep. John Shadegg (R-AZ)

...or the pre-existing condition clause that was endorsed by the GOP in their alternative proposal?

Yep... you should hit the books and do your homework.

Partisan political BS... plain and simple.

So does anyone on the Right have an opinion of Boehner not allowing a vote that he knows a majority in the house supports that would end the government shutdown?

Seems like all of you want to talk about anything except that simple fact.

reply to post by beezzer


Yes, that is at least one standard definition of a Dictator.

And yes, rape, really. It is one of many forms of population control in dictatorships.

I cannot decide if your encouraging dictatorship or ignoring reality.

If Obama was a Dictator, and this was a police state, Boehner would be dead and i am pretty sure Obama care, welfare and many other government services that people seem to hate on wouldn't exist...

Wait a minute....that's the answer isn't it. People would be perfectly ok with a dictator as long as he held the same values and ideologies that they held.

These are the people who control you, and the President. A dictatorship of hundreds? Is that possible?


Boehner is a prick. Like most politicians this isn't about Americans, is it about his personal viewpoint and the views held by a small minority of elected officials. Naturally we will circle jerk around this for awhile, point the finger at anyone who doesn't sit on our side of the political divide and in the end do nothing about it but wait and bitch.

reply to post by AlienScience


What is going on in congress is the right thing, Obamacrap needs to be securitized and stop in many areas, the reason, I guess everybody forgot "We have to passed to find out what is in it" and what is in it is not for the best interest of the tax payer.

Now, is not actually the Republicans the ones that have the country sequester but actually Obama and his unwillingness to negotiate, he knows his Obamacrap is nothing but that crap but he still wants to stick it to the middle class.

marg6043
reply to post by AlienScience

 

What is going on in congress is the right thing, Obamacrap needs to be securitized and stop in many areas, the reason, I guess everybody forgot "We have to passed to find out what is in it" and what is in it is not for the best interest of the tax payer.

Now, is not actually the Republicans the ones that have the country sequester but actually Obama and his unwillingness to negotiate, he knows his Obamacrap is nothing but that crap but he still wants to stick it to the middle class.

Aren't we adults here? Do we really have to use silly names for things we don't like?

The ACA passed, it was defended by the SCOTUS, and Obama was re-elected on a public referendum of the ACA. You lost, get over it.

And yes, it is the Republicans and a small minority that is keeping the government shutdown. A delay in the ACA individual mandate has no place being attached to a CR to continue to fund all aspects of our government. If they want that fight, take it up separately. They know they can't do that because they don't have enough support to do that, so the Republicans are using the government shutdown as a hostage to try to get their way.

Obama doesn't have to get his way, he already got his way...the legislation passed and was deemed Constitutional. The only ones trying to get their way right now are the Tea Party Republicans and they are sacrificing the American economy in an attempt to get it.

marg6043
reply to post by AlienScience

 

What is going on in congress is the right thing, Obamacrap needs to be securitized and stop in many areas, the reason, I guess everybody forgot "We have to passed to find out what is in it" and what is in it is not for the best interest of the tax payer.

Now, is not actually the Republicans the ones that have the country sequester but actually Obama and his unwillingness to negotiate, he knows his Obamacrap is nothing but that crap but he still wants to stick it to the middle class.

Well you certainly make a compelling argument, so eloquent.
I'm sure you're right that the POTUS KNOWS his plan is "crap" and that's exactly why he and the rest of the Dems refuse to negotiate. Of course it has nothing to do with the fact that the ACA is already law and that it can't be "de-funded" without actually repealing the law. Nope, I'm sure it's not that at all. [/sarcasm]

reply to post by AlienScience


Obamacare is nothing but crap and you know it and most people are finding the hard way how much crap is in it. what is wrong with calling it what is crap.

By the way it was people like me that follow the government since they started to form the bill metamorphosed into 3 bills and then end up passing the monstrosity that is now thanks to private interest getting their corrupted hands it.

Yes, I was one of those that voted for Obama, I was one of those that favored his original Idea of free health care but the bastardized bill that now is about to hold most of the middle class tax payers hostage is not what most people were if hopes for.

Is nothing but a gift of tax income from the working class into the hands of the many private interest profiteers to exploit as usual.

If you have not learned by now how everything that the government does for the private interest turns into caca for the tax payer I guess you will never learn.

reply to post by Blarneystoner


Interestingly the program will fail within a year, that is what is been predicted, the reason very simple, is too big and requires a healthy portion of the population in order to succeeded and those are the ones that rather take the fines than sign for the program.

Let see where obamacaca is within a year from now.

reply to post by marg6043

Obamacare is nothing but crap and you know it and most people are finding the hard way how much crap is in it. what is wrong with calling it what is crap.

Because intelligent adults are usually a little more articulate than that. Plus, don't expect anyone to take you seriously when you are speaking like a 3rd grader by making up silly names for things.

Obama never promised "free healthcare"...he campaigned on Universal Healthcare. And he tried and failed, he did compromise with Republicans and we got a compromised bill that is a step in the right direction towards single payer but not the solution any liberal was hoping for.

I'm forward thinking enough to see that the ACA is just a step and not the final solution. It had to be that way because of the demographics in America and the fear mongering from the Republicans. So you are partially correct, it is not perfect and it may not be the best for some people...but it is still better than what we used to have. No pre-existing conditions is worth the entire thing even if other parts or the method to get that is not ideal.

Regardless of all that, you don't shut down the government to get your way. You don't use a government shutdown to force a backdoor repeal of a law you don't like.

marg6043
reply to post by Blarneystoner

 

Interestingly the program will fail within a year, that is what is been predicted, the reason very simple, is too big and requires a healthy portion of the population in order to succeeded and those are the ones that rather take the fines than sign for the program.

Let see where obamacaca is within a year from now.

Who predicts it will fail within a year?

Definitely not the CBO, the CBO has actually released very encouraging numbers about the ACA.

The fines are designed to support the ACA just as much as people signing up for health insurance. Think about this, if you think you are going to protest the ACA by not buying insurance and paying the fine...that fine goes DIRECTLY to funding the ACA...where if you bought insurance your money would be going to your own healthcare. So by "protesting" the law, you are directly funding it.

I'll take that challenge to see where the ACA (still using the silly names I see, that's a shame) is in one year's time. But I'm more interested in where it is at in 4 years time...that is when most holdouts will eventually realize it is to their benefit to purchase insurance.

marg6043
reply to post by AlienScience

 

What is going on in congress is the right thing,

Opinion...and one not held by 87% of America according to recent polls...but opinion all the same.

marg6043
Obamacrap needs to be securitized and stop in many areas,

Opinion

How does having an opinion...which many would argue is unsubstantiated and built upon disproven propaganda like Death Panels and Micro-chips...How does having an opinion entitle anyone to circumvent all three branches of government, discard the balance of powers, and make demands at threat of destroying the American Economy?

AlienScience
reply to post by marg6043

 

Obamacare is nothing but crap and you know it and most people are finding the hard way how much crap is in it. what is wrong with calling it what is crap.

Because intelligent adults are usually a little more articulate than that. Plus, don't expect anyone to take you seriously when you are speaking like a 3rd grader by making up silly names for things.

But you want people to take you seriously?

"But let's face facts...they truly are the American Taliban"
Those are your words.

I think we are being played like a fiddle.

Consider this: the shutdown was planned well in advance.

Congress and the President knew for months that a spending bill had to be passed by Oct. 1. Still, they took their vacation and essentially twiddled their thumbs till the last minute. Does that seem like the same people that plan their campaigns months, or even years, in advance? Well, I’ll tell you what they did manage to plan for. They had plans for which government organizations would be affected by the shutdown and which ones were immune. Immune programs are the ones the government wants but not necessarily the people. Affected programs include the ones that hurt the American people and make for good sound bites. Close down national parks and memorials, but continue drone surveillance. Cut back on air traffic controllers, but not TSA agents groping children in airports. The list goes on, you can read some here.

Police State Programs NOT Affected by Gov Shutdown

It' s always an entertaining show, with both Republicans and Democrats doing their best to one-up each other with heartbreaking anecdotes about the millions who will suffer in the event of a government shutdown and showy bravado over the need for greater fiscal stewardship, while conveniently failing to rein in two of the biggest drains on our budget --namely, the military and surveillance industrial complexes.

So, why do it?

Well, there was a problem. The insurance companies could bribe enough Congressmen and judges to pass Obamacare, but the American people were another story. In spite of all the propaganda put out my the MSM, there is just no way to convince the majority of Americans that having the government tell people what they have to buy is a good thing. Anyone that can think just a few years ahead can see where that will lead. Mark my words: one day a Republican controlled Congress and a Republican President will pass a law requiring people to have “investments” in the stock market. They will probably say that it is to offset the growing insolvency of the Social Security system, or something like that. Whatever the rationale, they have the legal framework to pass legislation like that now, thanks to the Supreme Court’s ruling on Obamacare.

For now, though, the problem is to convince more people to accept laws like that being rammed down their throats. Everyone in Congress knows that Obamacare isn’t going anywhere. Then insurance companies have spent too much money on this to not get a huge return on their investments. The purpose of this shutdown is twofold. Give the illusion that the will of the people is being addressed, and at the same time show the people what happens when their will contradicts the will of the government. The shutdown won’t hurt the government, but they will try to make it appear so painful for the American public that people would rather have Obamacare than the freedom to make their own choices in life.

Indigo5

beezzer
The very minute, the split second that a republican votes for Obamacare, it stops being "Obamacare" and instead becomes Boehnercare, Governmentcare, Republicancare.

Or how about the Affordable Care Act?? A law that was debated for a year, voted on openly in congress and the senate, signed by the President and upheld by the Supreme Court and affirmed through two elections, one where the President ran on the promise of Healthcare reform and another after the law was passed?

Put a CLEAN RESOLUTION to a VOTE of the PEOPLES REPRESENTITIVES.

When the GOPs demands include refusing to allow the People's representatives to VOTE..>TO SPEAK THIER WILL....even despite having a GOP Majority in Congress....THAT is TYRANNY....Ya know...that punch line the far-right has been BSing about for years...In keeping with their stunning ability to not recognize irony or hypocrisy...the far-right is actually imposing Tyranny, where as before they just falsely accused others of it.

You forget, this congress wasn't the same congress that voted for the ACA; this congress was the one who was voted in to put a stop to Obamacare.

They are doing their job for the first time I can ever recall.

reply to post by xstealth

this congress was the one who was voted in to put a stop to Obamacare.

They are doing their job for the first time I can ever recall.

And exactly how are they doing their "job"?

They have shutdown everything in the government EXCEPT the ACA...so how is it exactly that you think they are stopping it?

Obama and the Senate Democrats are not going to fold, Republicans are turning on the Tea Party members every single day, Grover Norquist has turned on the Tea Party members, Wall Street has turned on the Republicans, Corporations are turning on the Republicans, and the latest polls are showing that the public is overwhelmingly against this shutdown and hence telling the Republicans to knock it off.

But please explain, how are their current actions stopping the ACA?

xstealth


You forget, this congress wasn't the same congress that voted for the ACA; this congress was the one who was voted in to put a stop to Obamacare.

They are doing their job for the first time I can ever recall.

Lord help me...

No...this congress has tried 43 times to "vote to end Obamacare" and failed.

This Congress is NOT voting at all for a clean resolution...which THIS Congress, GOP Majority and all...would PASS.

What THIS Congress is doing, having failed to repeal ACA/Obamacare through legislative means, is threatening the US Economy with a Depression lest their repeatedly demonstrated minority demands are met.

IF you want the will of THIS Congress to be known...then put a vote for a CLEAN resolution on the floor...just like repealing Obamacare was put to a vote 43 times.

This Congress cares not for the "Will of the People" nor do they even respect their own chamber, despite having a majority GOP, and are cowards and despots for not allowing the chamber to vote as democracy intended.

thesaneone

AlienScience
reply to post by marg6043

 

Obamacare is nothing but crap and you know it and most people are finding the hard way how much crap is in it. what is wrong with calling it what is crap.

Because intelligent adults are usually a little more articulate than that. Plus, don't expect anyone to take you seriously when you are speaking like a 3rd grader by making up silly names for things.

But you want people to take you seriously?

"But let's face facts...they truly are the American Taliban"
Those are your words.

It's a valid comparison, I made many correlations in that very thread that you failed to include in your quote.

I didn't use a silly name or attempt to insert a silly word inside their title...I simply compared one real world group to another real world group...and the comparison is very accurate on what their goals and methods are.

Sorry if the truth hurts a little bit.

AlienScience


Aren't we adults here? ...

I have to stop you right there...Are you new to ATS?

AlienScience


It's a valid comparison