euthanasia for psychological distress

crankyoldman



The question for me is, again : how can we estimate 'psychological distress' ? How can we know that it is something permanent or temporary, how can we know how deep it is ? How can we know that it will not disappear after a new hobby/interest is found, through religion for example, or philosophy, or anything else? Nonetheless the doctors, psychiatrists, psychologists, gave the green light for euthanasia. Or should we give the right to suicide to anyone ? Is it better to assist a suicide than to leave the person commit suicide on her own ? We know that there are a lot of suicides, and Belgium is ranked 5th in Europe.

Here is the interesting thing about your post. You use the term "we." Why, why is my distress a concern of the "we?"

What way could I possibly convey my distress to another? It is impossible to convey what you are experiencing to another, especially if you have no frame of reference. Since I have never had gender reassignment surgery, I have no idea what the distress could be.

It is fascinating how so many people insist of defining a social, emotional, and behavioral norm by defining what is wrong, not what is right. If you come to Earth and you hate it, - leave and go elsewhere, what business is if of mine where you choose to go? We all die, every single one of us, and yet we freak out by the means of death. Die by a radioactive explosion in a nuclear plant it is all good, but choose to die because you simply hate being here and it is suddenly the business of "we."


Well put!


- SN

FlyersFan
Any adult in the world should be allowed to engage in physician assisted suicide for any reason they wish. It's their life. They are the ones who know best if they can live it or not. We have no business judging someone else's level of 'psychological or physical distress'. What is a huge burden for some, isn't for others. We can't judge.

I say ... Physician assisted suicide for any adult for any reason they deem it necessary.

I'm afraid it's not that simple... What about people with dementia, or other conditions that render them not of sound mind?

The doctor who carried out the euthanasia on Nathan is my boss. He is also one of the people who fought for the euthanasia law in parliament, which was passed in 2002.

I have been working for the main Belgian organizations involved in euthanasia for 4 years, and am often involved in discussions with the main players deciding the fate of these people. And I am still on the fence about wether or not euthanasia should be legal.

Euthanasia is not suicide, nor is it assisted suicide. Someone has to do the act for the patient, and that someone has to be a medical professional. This means that the decision of the fate of these people is restricted to one profession. Or can you think of another viable way to euthanize someone, besides by medical means?...

ETA:
Something else to think about: A lot of patients, especially elderly people, who feel they have become a burden to their family will feel obliged to chose euthanasia. Who will be able to judge whether or not this is the case?
I am leaning more and more towards the opinion that we humans are not suited to make these types of decisions. Some things may be better left to nature.


This is an EXTREMELY complex issue folks! Not to be underestimated.

reply to post by gosseyn


I think it is a mute point. If a person wants to go they will. I think that letting a person go humanely is the right thing to do.

Here such things are taboo and so people really go to extreme and painful ends allot of the time.

A helium balloon making kit from the store, some plastic tubing and a turkey bag make for a painless demise, or so they say. Do you think the info above is really horrible? If someone is going to take their own life what is better?

Suicide is the 7th leading cause of death in the US. I don't think seeing some compassion, humanity, etc... is all that bad.

91-Year-Old Grandma Sells Suicide Kits To Help Terminally Ill Die With Dignity.
losangeles.cbslocal.com...

A little off subject, but look at this sadness.
suicideproject.org...

National Suicide Prevention Lifeline
www.suicidepreventionlifeline.org...

reply to post by SadistNocturne


You were not judgmental or hurtful to your friend. The mother in this story said she gave birth to an ugly baby girl - a ghost, even. Imagine being raised by a woman like that.

SadistNocturne

tetra50

Peace, SN. You haven't offended. I am just being a bitch, frankly. I've been struggling with a thread totally removed from this one. And it's wearing on me, simply. I apologize. I should not have responded as vehemently as I did.

Hey, it takes one hell of a person to admit they feel they are wrong, and then again to even apologize....

I thank you for that, and respect you all the more

You know, you're absolutely correct. We are unfairly judged by our looks. Like I said, I've been between morbidly obese and super morbidly obese for at least 80% of my life. I can't begin to tell you about the seething anger I've felt over how in our world you cannot make fun of someones race, gender, intelligence, family history, sexual orientation, ad nauseum.

However, you are always allowed to poke the sacred cow...the fat ass. Talk about double standards. Everyone that is "normal" chalks it up to "you're overweight because you don't care enough. IT's simple, eat less, exercise more. Give a # about yourself". But nobody realizes, it's not that easy. I've quite smoking. You can COMPLETELY go cold turkey. Go ahead, go cold turkey with food. I'll have a casket ready for you. Not to mention the underlying emotional issues of why you either are overweight, or are still overweight after all this time. I've had women laugh in my face. I've had far worse. Public humiliation seems to be a favorite amongst the so called "normal" crowd.

Thankfully, I'm down significantly. At 6'3, 321 lbs, I finally don't completely look like such a fat person. Sure, I'm big, but I think you can honestly say I look much better. After all, I've lost 230 lbs. That's most likely more than you or most people on this thread weigh. I had weight loss surgery, and it's been wonderful. I have another 100 to go. And, before I could even HAVE the surgery, I had the joy of withstanding a liquid diet to drop from 550lbs to 460lbs before they would operate. Ten months of pure hell, I'll tell you.

But I never once felt suicidal about it. Not slamming anyone for feeling that way about it, but, it didn't impact me that way.

Amazingly, my near model beauty wife (the single most gorgeous creature I have ever laid my eyes on) saw past everything. I even gained 100 lbs during our first few years together. And she is so proud of me now. Not because I look better, but because she knows I wanted to do it. She is more beautiful on the inside than the incredibly gorgeous woman on the outside.

With regards to treating beautiful women different than unattractive women, well, I understand. I've been on this end of finding myself staring at a woman's amazingly beautiful body, and finding it rather hard to look up. What I wish women would try to do though, is to understand, it's not that men just chose to be pigs. We are biologically driven to do this. Hormone induced. I am a programmer, and to explain to a rather attractive young gal I work with "Men think about sex so often, if I were to try write out 2+2 = 4 and tell the truth about my thought pattern? Sex2sex+sex2+sex=sex4sex. It may sound like a cop out, and yes it is a bit of an exaggeration. Does it excuse a man from TRYING to be decent, and making every effort to not let his innate sexuality turn him into a pig? No. But I just wish women would show a sign that they are aware of this about men, and try to understand a little more.

Again, I think it's pretty damned cool and took some cajones to come back and say what you did to me...thank you

- SN

This is a bit off topic for sure, but I did want to reply particularly to your last paragraph, which had me laughing.... Don't sell women short, there, for I think more understand than you know. Certainly, when I brought this up--I was really trying to hit on how very important surface appearance can be in our society, and the various effects it has. Pretty or not pretty, for women, at least, both carry their own burden.
For myself, anyway, I long ago understood the victims of our biology many of us are---just as there is research to back up that women will be more attracted to men who seem financially stable and capable of providing well, as part of a "nesting, child bearing," issue that has a direct effect on hormones.

All of this, is, in a way, on topic, though, for the OP is about someone who was struggling with sexuality and appearance....and we cannot deny that both of these factors about a person are hugely important to self image. We may be beautiful on the inside, but if no one ever desires to get close enough to begin with to get to know you.....then the isolation and loneliness effect one's self image. This is hard to live with, as you have demonstrated, yourself, through reactions you've gotten and your struggle to lose weight, which is an inspiring story, I might add.

But it sounds like you've had the benefit of this not affecting your ability to have and sustain relationships....some are not that lucky or able to deal with it.

Appreciate your comments.
Tetra50

tetra50
All of this, is, in a way, on topic, though, for the OP is about someone who was struggling with sexuality and appearance....and we cannot deny that both of these factors about a person are hugely important to self image. We may be beautiful on the inside, but if no one ever desires to get close enough to begin with to get to know you.....then the isolation and loneliness effect one's self image. This is hard to live with, as you have demonstrated, yourself, through reactions you've gotten and your struggle to lose weight, which is an inspiring story, I might add.

But it sounds like you've had the benefit of this not affecting your ability to have and sustain relationships....some are not that lucky or able to deal with it.

Appreciate your comments.
Tetra50

Well, you know, I wasn't always so lucky. First ex used me for her two degrees at George Mason University that I paid for by pouring beers. Second ex used me to leave England, have a child, and then take the child back to the UK illegally and definitely against my wishes. I paid for all of this through phase 2 of my career, computer programming. You see, your assertion that many women simply are looking for a provider, well, yes, I can attest to that. I learned it from my father. It's how he showed his love. The only way. And to me, providing is a HUGE way that is natural for me to show love and affection. It's something I've had to learn to balance.

My wife today is an incredible person. She could have had any single man she wanted. Beautiful, smart, tons of common sense, business acumen, a wonderful cook, fearless. When I describe her to people, I often get the physical feedback from folks that they really don't believe me. Oh well, c'est la vie. I go home to the truth every single night. All because she was somehow able to see me for who I really am.

A huge aspect of finding each other, was through our open and quite honest communication with each other. She had been through two failed marriages as well. Both of her exes cheated on her. I'm shaking my head as I write this, because oh my lord was that foolish of them. So, we laid out clearly and plainly to each other who we both were, what our experiences were, what we wanted, and what we didn't want.

I personally think that alot of relationships fail because people are not honest with themselves first. About themselves, their needs, and how they are in a relationship. My wife and I realized rather early on exactly how we complimented each other. We accept that, and lean on it. It supports us in our relationship as a family with our daughter.

My first two marriages, I genuinely believe were hexxed from the beginning. I am rather emotional as far as most men are concerned. Two positive poles of different magnets are going to repel each other. My wife is an extremely cool headed woman. Not much for PDAs, shows her love rather than says it. Almost masculine, wouldn't you say? We compliment each other that way. I believe this is how her previous two marriages were doomed as well, too. Besides the idiots cheating on her.

Off topic, sure. But any conversation morphs and twists. It's human nature.


-SN

EDIT : with regards to attractiveness, first of all, I read somewhere the other day that we are actually perceived as 20% more attractive than we feel. Interesting factoid. Also, with regards to men looking at a woman's breasts and not into her eyes upon talking...well, truthfully, it doesn't have to be a stunning woman to cause this to happen. Men look at *everything* with the intention of a "yes" or a "no". And we consider everything

Also, with regards to attraction...I am honest in saying that even if my wife's appearance were to change, I would still be madly in love with her. If she suddenly gained a massive amount of weight. Became disfigured. Anything. One of the first photos I ever saw of here was of her consoling a five year old nephew of hers. That photo captured part of her soul. It is the most beautiful thing I have ever laid eyes on. I truly believe that was the ledge I fell off of when I fell in love with her.

reply to post by SadistNocturne


Again, I've enjoyed your comments. But would like to address this, because it's not exactly what I meant, nor said:

You see, your assertion that many women simply are looking for a provider, well, yes, I can attest to that.

And the distinction I think important enough to point out. There was a study several years ago (will try to search for it) that concluded that women are hormonally disposed, physically, to gravitate toward men who appear to be good providers. It's not so much a conscious choice, the study pointed out, as a biological effect.

I only clarify because I was making a point about how much our biology physically controls our mental focus, most times without even consciously being aware of it. I also clarify because I don't really believe that most women are consciously that premeditated about looking for someone to provide for them. This, of course, is just my opinion, but I've seen many women who are more the providers, too.

Anyway, I congratulate you on your finding your current mate and life partner.
Tetra50

tetra50
reply to post by SadistNocturne

 

Again, I've enjoyed your comments. But would like to address this, because it's not exactly what I meant, nor said:

You see, your assertion that many women simply are looking for a provider, well, yes, I can attest to that.

And the distinction I think important enough to point out. There was a study several years ago (will try to search for it) that concluded that women are hormonally disposed, physically, to gravitate toward men who appear to be good providers. It's not so much a conscious choice, the study pointed out, as a biological effect.

I only clarify because I was making a point about how much our biology physically controls our mental focus, most times without even consciously being aware of it. I also clarify because I don't really believe that most women are consciously that premeditated about looking for someone to provide for them. This, of course, is just my opinion, but I've seen many women who are more the providers, too.

Anyway, I congratulate you on your finding your current mate and life partner.
Tetra50

Well, I am guilty of not being verbose enough. I meant to say it was a biologic predisposition towards a male mate that showed he could provide.

You may get a kick out this, one of my favorite long time bands is Rush.....

You and I, we are strangers by one chromosome
Slave to the hormone, body and soul
In a struggle to be happy and free
Swimming in a primitive sea

This is their song Alien Shore off of the Counterparts album. Kinda says it all, doesn't it ?



- SN

reply to post by UnifiedSerenity


I don't think that "too many people want a simple solution". Death is not a simple solution and I think it takes a lot of guts to take one's own life. I had mixed feelings about assisted suicide and euthanasia myself until two years ago I had a botched dental surgery and am left with permanent pain in my face. I've had not had a pain-free hour in the last two years despite being put on strong meds causing addiction and apparently, this condition is for life. For me and others with physical or mental ailments the phrase about suicide being a permanent solution to a temporary problem doesn't apply...sorry.

OliGoesDown
reply to post by UnifiedSerenity

 

I don't think that "too many people want a simple solution". Death is not a simple solution and I think it takes a lot of guts to take one's own life. I had mixed feelings about assisted suicide and euthanasia myself until two years ago I had a botched dental surgery and am left with permanent pain in my face. I've had not had a pain-free hour in the last two years despite being put on strong meds causing addiction and apparently, this condition is for life. For me and others with physical or mental ailments the phrase about suicide being a permanent solution to a temporary problem doesn't apply...sorry.

Your situation not only shows how a routine scenario can go wrong for any of us, it also shows exactly what the possible consequences of such a horrible, but entirely possible, scenario can be.

Thank you for coming forward and sharing. It took something, something strong for you to do this.


- SN