This is Hell, and We are the Fallen Angels

Murgatroid
If you put absolute blind faith in PROPAGANDA, you may believe this:

Yahweh = Satan

This is why we have all been warned about the god of this world AKA "the father of ALL lies...

Blind faith? Propaganda? I'm pretty sure that thread contains none of that....Religion on the other hand...

And how is this demiurgic view of God "mainstream"? What on earth are you smoking?

BTW, Yahweh = Satan is one of the most powerful, insightful, thought-provoking threads on ATS history.... EVER.... and confirms all my suspicions in reference to the most likely candidate for the "Father of lies" title.

Yahweh


In response to the OP, Another interesting pov, good job! I've often thought about this possibility especially under the light of the prodigal son parable:

11 Jesus continued: “There was a man who had two sons. 12 The younger one said to his father, ‘Father, give me my share of the estate.’ So he divided his property between them. 13 “Not long after that, the younger son got together all he had, set off for a distant country and there squandered his wealth in wild living. 14 After he had spent everything, there was a severe famine in that whole country, and he began to be in need. 15 So he went and hired himself out to a citizen of that country, who sent him to his fields to feed pigs. 16 He longed to fill his stomach with the pods that the pigs were eating, but no one gave him anything.

17 “When he came to his senses, he said, ‘How many of my father’s hired servants have food to spare, and here I am starving to death! 18 I will set out and go back to my father and say to him: Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. 19 I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me like one of your hired servants.’ 20 So he got up and went to his father. “But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion for him; he ran to his son, threw his arms around him and kissed him. 21 “The son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.’ 22 “But the father said to his servants, ‘Quick! Bring the best robe and put it on him. Put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet. 23 Bring the fattened calf and kill it. Let’s have a feast and celebrate. 24 For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’ So they began to celebrate.

25 “Meanwhile, the older son was in the field. When he came near the house, he heard music and dancing. 26 So he called one of the servants and asked him what was going on. 27 ‘Your brother has come,’ he replied, ‘and your father has killed the fattened calf because he has him back safe and sound.’ 28 “The older brother became angry and refused to go in. So his father went out and pleaded with him. 29 But he answered his father, ‘Look! All these years I’ve been slaving for you and never disobeyed your orders. Yet you never gave me even a young goat so I could celebrate with my friends. 30 But when this son of yours who has squandered your property with prostitutes comes home, you kill the fattened calf for him!’ 31 “‘My son,’ the father said, ‘you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. 32 But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’”

reply to post by CaticusMaximus


This would certainly explain a great deal and why this place can be maddening. You present an excellent argument and I think you might be right. We are a far cry from Utopia even though we can almost see it, taste it, we know how it should be. We present a series of good excuses why that perfect earth is impossible to attain but when push comes to shove, the buck stops here. We make this earth what it is. We made this bed.

This is not hell, but hell reigns on the Earth and is at war with Heaven. The war started in the garden of Eden. Hell thought it won the day and took mankind into slavery and death. The ways of hell and destruction became the ways of mankind.

At some point, hell went a step further and fallen angels began to have sex with human women and with the animal life, corrupting it greatly. Hideous creatures resulted from it. It was an attempt to wipe out the human race as God had created it and replace it with a hybrid race. It was also an attempt to prevent the promised Son of God from appearing who would come to restore mankind back to the glory he had before hell took him into slavery. The God of heaven destroyed those ones with a great flood of waters.

The Son of God appeared, and He testified of God the Father and of a new life to come. People would have to believe and trust in Him for it, and accept His suffering as their freedom from offenses which bring the slavery of all mankind. But hell and the children of hell, the hybrids, and those who hate God were jealous and they beat and tortured the Son of God and killed His earthly body on a crucifix.

But the Son of God then descended into hell itself and set those who were innocent free and released them into heaven. He also took authority, taking the keys to the gates of hell from hell's god. The Son of God was then resurrected so that His earthly body lived again. He showed Himself to many and then ascended back into heaven. In doing so he defeated the power of hell once and for all.

Lastly, hell is preparing itself for the coming Earth invasion of the forces of Heaven. Heaven's armies led by the Son of God. The Son will crush hell and it's forces and then He will govern and rule the Earth for one thousand years. After this all will be judged. Some will live forever and some will be sent to a dimension known as the lake of fire. Death and hell and it's forces and leaders will also go there, and every human who refused the truth but believed the lies of hell. All those that rejected the Son of God.

Then the Earth and the universe will pass away and dissolve with fervent heat and disappear. A new heavens and earth will appear where all that is Godly and holy will live forever without end.

One thing is for sure, we are in our own self created 'hell'. But it is not forever, because we have the ability to escape and free ourselves from this material prison through self effort and constantly trying to realise that this body is not us, it's only a vehicle of expression for a short time.

When our body fails and we depart we will all realise it was only a show and a school of sorts, and we will have to ask ourselves "how did I do?" Hopefully we did ok and learnt something. But for the vast majority we will be back to learn some more and and experience the things we need to experience in order for us to grow spiritually, emotionally etc until we finally become a perfected being - a Buddha, a Christ, a Krishna!

My 2 cents

Help! I've fallen and can't get back up.

reply to post by randyvs


I've seen Zeitgeist, but that's not why I said what I said. This is. Oh, and extensive study of world mythology, and the ways in which it overlaps with Jewish and Christian mythology, only, was recorded several thousand years before theirs.

~ Wandering Scribe

Fromabove
This is not hell, but hell reigns on the Earth and is at war with Heaven. The war started in the garden of Eden. Hell thought it won the day and took mankind into slavery and death. The ways of hell and destruction became the ways of mankind.

At some point, hell went a step further and fallen angels began to have sex with human women and with the animal life, corrupting it greatly. Hideous creatures resulted from it. It was an attempt to wipe out the human race as God had created it and replace it with a hybrid race. It was also an attempt to prevent the promised Son of God from appearing who would come to restore mankind back to the glory he had before hell took him into slavery. The God of heaven destroyed those ones with a great flood of waters.

The Son of God appeared, and He testified of God the Father and of a new life to come. People would have to believe and trust in Him for it, and accept His suffering as their freedom from offenses which bring the slavery of all mankind. But hell and the children of hell, the hybrids, and those who hate God were jealous and they beat and tortured the Son of God and killed His earthly body on a crucifix.

But the Son of God then descended into hell itself and set those who were innocent free and released them into heaven. He also took authority, taking the keys to the gates of hell from hell's god. The Son of God was then resurrected so that His earthly body lived again. He showed Himself to many and then ascended back into heaven. In doing so he defeated the power of hell once and for all.

Lastly, hell is preparing itself for the coming Earth invasion of the forces of Heaven. Heaven's armies led by the Son of God. The Son will crush hell and it's forces and then He will govern and rule the Earth for one thousand years. After this all will be judged. Some will live forever and some will be sent to a dimension known as the lake of fire. Death and hell and it's forces and leaders will also go there, and every human who refused the truth but believed the lies of hell. All those that rejected the Son of God.

Then the Earth and the universe will pass away and dissolve with fervent heat and disappear. A new heavens and earth will appear where all that is Godly and holy will live forever without end.

edit on 28-9-2013 by Fromabove because: (no reason given)

dont take bible literally.
it will never make sense.
(most content in bible is about reflection of our life. it would make sense if u read esoteric materials or eastern teachings)

to sum it up (to frighten most christians), The Truth is Jesus didnt die for us, because

if baptized christians or anyone who believe in Jesus will definitely go to Heaven, why do they have to worry about their life? why do they need to prosper materially? why do they need to wait for jesus to come with his pegasus to slay the antichrists? why those criminals who are christians have to hide from police?

if i know i would go to heaven afterlife, i would not care about this life anymore. any kind of death would be an instant trip to heaven including suicide.

When Jesus said 'believe in Him' or when Paul said 'believe in Jesus'
it is to believe in Jesus' words and practice them.

if your teacher tell you 'you must study hard to pass this exam' and she say 'believe in me', what do you think does it mean?
just believe in her is enough to get u pass the exam? or study hard?

reply to post by Wandering Scribe


How could someone as apparently smart as you be so willfully ignorant, and blind?

The origins of Jesus arise from another direction altogether.

When I first saw this thread I thought "not another one", but after reading it tend to think that there is some substance of what you say.
My Grandmother who I never knew as she died in 1940, apparently always told my Mother that we are living in hell on this earth. My Mum was 11 when she died, she died of a kidney illness and probably more so of a broken heart as her youngest son died 6 months before at 9 years old.
That was a lot for both my Mother and Grandmother to experience, my Mother never forgot those words.
They were devout Catholics back then, yet my Mother never continued to go to church in my lifetime and
I think she was pretty jaded by the dogma of the church reinforced by the fact the Catholic church wouldn't allow her to marry my Father who was christened Salvation Army, they married in a Church of England church.
I think you may be onto something with your thread, Any religion you read of wants you to tow the line and be a certain kind of person in order to go to heaven or ascend to a higher density, all positive steps off this planet.
This planet has as far back as memory or ancient texts will tell you has been a warring planet, and is ruled by those who take power for themselves.
The meek shall inherit the earth is written, but I think that foretells a time of judgement when the wheat is sorted from the chaff and the meek may very well inherit the earth and those more negative thinking souls are sent down to a lower dimension or hell or possibly those of a positive thought process may be moved to a higher plane and negative stays right here to try to learn from their wrongs to be ready for the next judgement having not been ready for this one.
Only through struggle do we learn and how you carry yourself through struggle defines who you are.
Those of a warring nature have taken the wrong path and will pay for any misery they have caused.
Star and Flag.

reply to post by ExquisitExamplE


Good to see you here, Exq.

I dont think pride and free will need to be mutually inclusive, but perhaps its a more semantic disagreement. I would simply define pride as the feeling or perhaps belief of "I am better than you". I do not feel one has to believe they are superior to others to act with free will.

Also, I agree that this place we are in is most certainly not worthless, or something to be forgotten, or anything like that. I couldnt make the OP too long, so I could not include everything I had on mind, but I definitely feel that there will be value in this experience. I see no other way it could possibly be.

Alternatively, you could also just say, "My fundamentalist viewpoints are threatened by what you've written, although I'm not exactly sure why that's the case because I didn't put too much thought into what you wrote, which is why I didn't address any of your points directly", which is probably closer to the truth.

Hit that nail on the head

NotAnAspie
Everything was going great and I was all like, yeah... I can relate and then right at the end...bam, you had to bring ETs into it.

Like we just imagine ETs. It's just our pride that causes us to believe in something that so many of us have experienced.

I mean seriously... Did you gank this bit from somewhere just to stick that in there and demonize ETs?

Dont you just hate it when that happens?

Let me clarify what I meant though. I think there might be a miscommunication here.

My premise in that paragraph is that salvation is not outside of you; it is within. So when people look to OTHERS to save them, to other things, people, beings, etc, they are looking in the wrong place.

I do not believe ETs are imaginary. I think they are absolutely real, and individual entities just like us at their core. I did not intend to demonize them, only to mention them as something outside of yourself not be sought after for salvation, just the same as you shouldnt seek salvation in other humans, dead, alive, imaginary, or other things like technology.

I think they are beings just like us, Fallen Angels, in the same boat.

NotAnAspie

And your avatar is a lion...pride/lion. You didn't change your avatar just for this thread, did you?

Symbols are objectively meaningless. They only have the meaning you give them.

I do not associate pride with the lion. If you do, I would like to hear why, and how you came to that association.

My avatar is a picture of a great cat, which my name playfully implies, and its been my avatar for 99% of my time here.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


You read that entire website in ten minutes? It took me five months to read all of the original material posted on the website. And I have since been trying to catch up with articles he's added, videos he's posted, radio discussions he's participated in, and so on. You sir, are an absolutely phenomenal speed reader. I must commend you on your ability to process an entire life-time's worth of research in ten minutes. Please, do teach me your secret to infinite knowledge in finite time!

Oh, wait, you didn't bother reading. Never mind. Had you read, you'd have seen that this page among others deals with the influence of India, Hinduism, and Buddhism on Jewish and Christian belief. Also, while word-play is fun (Brahmin to Abraham), you know what else is fun? When the Jews call their God "Ba'al" and so do the Canaanites. Or, when the Babylonians, Canaanites, and Jews all call their deity El.

The entire religious field of the mythologer's Orient was fertile ground for the wellspring of information which contributed to the Judeo Christian mythology.

~ Wandering Scribe

reply to post by CaticusMaximus


Hello OP, you may be interested in reading The Urantia Papers. (Wiki here)

It's supposedly a set of documents with an unknown author that was discovered back in the early 20th century, and it's pretty fascinating to say the least. The book discusses at length all sorts of subjects and the very things you talk about, including a "Lucifer rebellion" in which this plane of existence was created and we chose to be here. It even sounds like you may have already read this book if not then it's right up your alley.

reply to post by randyvs

I think it's odd that some one who never existed intermingled with so many people who did exist. Oh wait I know, none of them existed either.

So close...

I know you don't like it, but do really expect everyone to swallow the same crap you willingly chow down on?

...but so far.

It's all mythology, Randyvs.

Inanna's death and resurrection 3 days later.
Jesus' death and resurrection 3 days later.
The belief in Amun, an invisible, omnipresent god of benevolence.
The belief in Yhvh, an invisible, omnipresent god of benevolence.
The Aphkallu; genderless, winged guardians who served the gods in Babylon.
The angels; genderless, winged guardians who served God in Heaven.

All of it is mythology; stories, fables, tall tales.

There is as much evidence for Inanna as there is for Jesus Christ. And both of them have less evidence to their existence than there is to yours.

I would sooner believe that you, Randyvs, were God, than believe that Jesus Christ was.

~ Wandering Scribe

reply to post by CaticusMaximus


Well if you think you're a fallen angel, I'm not going to disagree because obviously you know more about it than the other 6 billion people who have existed n the flesh.

Nothing happens without "God's" awareness and consent.

CaticusMaximus

NotAnAspie
Everything was going great and I was all like, yeah... I can relate and then right at the end...bam, you had to bring ETs into it.

Like we just imagine ETs. It's just our pride that causes us to believe in something that so many of us have experienced.

I mean seriously... Did you gank this bit from somewhere just to stick that in there and demonize ETs?

Dont you just hate it when that happens?

Let me clarify what I meant though. I think there might be a miscommunication here.

My premise in that paragraph is that salvation is not outside of you; it is within. So when people look to OTHERS to save them, to other things, people, beings, etc, they are looking in the wrong place.

I do not believe ETs are imaginary. I think they are absolutely real, and individual entities just like us at their core. I did not intend to demonize them, only to mention them as something outside of yourself not be sought after for salvation, just the same as you shouldnt seek salvation in other humans, dead, alive, imaginary, or other things like technology.

I think they are beings just like us, Fallen Angels, in the same boat.

NotAnAspie

And your avatar is a lion...pride/lion. You didn't change your avatar just for this thread, did you?

Symbols are objectively meaningless. They only have the meaning you give them.

I do not associate pride with the lion. If you do, I would like to hear why, and how you came to that association.

My avatar is a picture of a great cat, which my name playfully implies, and its been my avatar for 99% of my time here.

edit on 9/28/2013 by CaticusMaximus because: (no reason given)

Oh ok, thanks for clarifying. This is why I agree somewhat with what you state as it centers around personal accountability and yes, a lot of us lack that. It doesn't mean individuals can't be heroes, because they can... both ET and humans. It doesn't mean they are going to be, it doesn't mean we deserve them to be. that much is definitely true if we think salvation should be handed to us on a platter.

I would suggest to anyone that if something catastrophic were to happen, before they go thinking they will be saved by ETs, I think it's actually more likely they would try to save the planet first. People die all the time... and they come back, or at least in my opinion... if there is a planet back here to come back to. If not, we might have to wait millions of years for amoebas to form on Venus and start all over. It may seem cruel to just sit back and watch people die, but priorities are priorities.

...but you never know and it's not such a bad thing to want to believe in someone else. We need good people and are in short supply of the real stand up kind. It would be a mistake to not uphold heroism. that is exactly the kind of thing we need to be upholding... but so much on a level that we need to have the courage to find the hero in ourselves.

Like voting for example. Most people don't pay attention to politics outside of the presidential election. they vote for the guy they like and leave EVERYTHING up to him. Bad idea.

As for being fallen angels... maybe some are just coming up in the world and didn't fall at all. maybe some chose to be here. maybe it is a deliberate mission. I agree that this world is BACK ASSWARD... but you know what? As much as I don't like thinking about it.... it could be worse. Don't get me started on post apocolyptic, solar X-ray mutant cockroach hell. That's when we screw up the earth so bad that only cockroaches can survive and since our souls gravitate here because we are here now shaping this world, we reincarnate into a cannibal army of mutant cockroaches who go around playing football with their bros heads and holding rape parades because we screw it up so bad, we deserve it... so don't forget to pick the right candidate,lol! If you think princess leah chained to jaba the hut was twisted, you aint seen nothing till you see mutant militant cockroach hell sacrificial orgy parade day in the blazing radioactive sun. Their generations recycle so fast that they become technologically advanced almost as fast as human did after they started mutating from feasting on radiated human flesh.

I won't even start talking about the benevolent insectoids that some claim to have seen... those were grasshoppers and locusts. It should all make you wonder. You may think it could never happen... that post apocalyptic cockroaches would never get that big or that smart, but the thing is... they weren't really smart. I mean they were cannibal rapist who play footbro-headball. They were just all pumped up like tanks on nitro and could push the smart bugs around until the smart bugs got sick of it and had to blow up the entire planet. You see, the dis-info agent always twist it around. Like Scientology. It's dis-info. Xenu was not an evil destroyer of worlds, he was an exterminator. You may not believe in giant cockroaches, but I bet you believe in giant lizards... until they got exterminated... and then giant humans... until they got exterminated etc.

there may come a day when you have to take some advice from a giant sentient bug so pay attention because bugs have been around a lot longer than any of us have and never caused so much trouble.

...but I digress.

You are absolutely right that the world needs a little more personal accountability, because we've also got some other issues to think about like more and more comets and asteroids flying around, not to mention the magnetosphere going down real soon... so let's not discourage the one's willing to stand up... and able to stand up...and not because of pride because that is indeed a very stupid reason.

As for the lion... I'm not the concerned about the lion. I was just jabbing you because I thought you were trolling.

reply to post by Wandering Scribe


Did you note the Essenean connection..?

All the threads run through Jesus, not as a myth after the fact, but as a person standing at those crossroads and streams of though, which appear to contain Hindu and even Greek and certainly Egyptian thought, which is why I think that Jesus went on a trip and visited many places along the trade routes during the "lost years".

The Gospels were written as Apocrypha too we must remember, meaning to both reveal AND hide, and they reveal as much or even moreso by what they hide as by what they reveal, things you wouldn't expect in any formulaic mythology.

We can also see in Jesus' great work that he conspired with John the Baptist as his official initiator, also an Essene or a ascetic which fits his profile.

Jesus however was passionate, and repudiated an element of Buddhist thought when he said "what does it profit a man to gain the whole world but lost his own soul."

reply to post by NewAgeMan


I think we're starting to get off topic here. If you want to start a thread on the things revealed in the Gospel that cannot be found in "formulaic" mythology, I'd be more than happy to discuss such a subject with you (as I happen to love mythology). However, this is not the thread to do so. I'll respond to others' comments here, but I won't willingly begin a tangent from the normal thread's purpose. If you do make a thread, go ahead and U2U me and I'll hop over to it to discuss with you further.

~ Wandering Scribe