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David Paulides Contiguous Q & A Posts Archive RE: Big Foot & National Park Disappearances
page: 3share:
PAGE 26 OF THE ORIGINAL AMA THREAD:
155. posted on Sep, 25 2013 @ 19:39
155. reply to post by Dianec
155. Nisene marks park in Aptos.
155.1. I'm hearing you when you say parks cover these things up - close them out to clear the books. Years ago I was jogging through Nisene Marks park in Aptos, Ca (also near the epicenter of the Lima prieta quake). I was alone and about to round a corner about a mile up and got the strangest feeling. When jogging you don't usually stop but something made me stop and run in place and then turn around and leave.
155.2. My heart was racing from more than the short run I had engaged in thus far. It's almost like the further I got from that spot the more convinced I was I had made the right choice. I couldn't move fast enough. This is the only time this has happened to me during a run. I found out a few weeks later that a person disappeared up there (I cannot remember if male or female - this was quite a while back - early 90''s). I assumed instinct kicked in and there must have been a predator (human) hiding behind the big tree I stopped before.
155.3. I am wondering if you have any cases for those who have gone missing there - any strange circumstances. I'll get around to your book but in the meantime am curious about this location.
•••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••
DAVID PAULIDES:
155.1. Been to Nisene many times, use to live on High st in SC.
155.2. That park gets very dark the deeper you go in up above SJ/Soquel Rd. Go in up high in the park and walk down to Soquel, it is a gorgeous hike but very lonely...
155.3. Nothing in that area in regards to missing.
Thanks for the contact.
PS. Go to Gayles and get me crocodile....
= = =
156. posted on Sep, 25 2013 @ 20:23
156. reply to post by ecossiepossie
156.1. GIVEN Americans fondness for guns and the amount of serial killers at large.
. . . .
[BO XIAN NOTE: 1. I did not write those words. They were written in RESPONSE to one of my posts. 2. The rant is sooooo uninformed, unaware, imperceptive and generally dismissive of soooo much that Dave has written on his AMA thread that I think it would be insult to injury to give it more air time. So, I’m omitting it from this thread]
•••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• ••••••••••••••••••••••••••
DAVID PAULIDES:
Bo
[Sorry, Dave, I did not write those words in that post you are replying to. They were written IN REPLY to one of my posts.]
DAVID PAULIDES:
156.1. Just a few questions.
156.2. I think we as a society all need to have our minds comprehend issues in a rational method, without such we come to illogical conclusions based our on our breadth of knowledge, or lack of knowledge.
156.3. You've never read the books, never talked to investigators, never talked to SAR personnel, never read the official reports, how can you make such a rash judgement?
156.4. How do you know the circumstances of what we've documented in order for you to come to your conclusions?
156.5. Do you realize that many of the official reports we possess have statements from SAR and law enforcement stating they have no idea how the incident occurred????
165.6. I'm not offended, just don't understand how anyone would make such a statement without a base of knowledge of what we research.
= = =
157.
posted on Sep, 25 2013 @ 20:29
157. reply to post by Alien Abduct
157.1. At first I agreed with this. But then i thought....why not contact the victims and record information obtained by them for internal use only. Then after hundreds or so cases you can make a better detailed analysis of the broad spectrum of things. No one said you have to make public the detailed stories of certain cases, but I think if you could hold some sort of confidentiality standard you could make use of the invaluable information that would undoubtedly be spewing forth as fast as can be comprehended.
157.2. It seems to me that the questioning of the victims that are recovered is such a vital piece of the puzzle that especially in the case of the most strange cases in existence (of which you specialize in) this action would/should appear to be as an essential part of your investigation.
157.3. I think you get the point. My question is: Why do you not proceed in this manner?
157.4. EDIT TO ADD: I wan't to add emphasis on the fact that I would like Mr Paulides to answer why Mr Paulides chooses not to collect this information for internal purposes only.
•••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••
DAVID PAULIDES:
157.1. The groups stated NOT to make the initial step towards victims, we listen and we won't.
157.2. Can you imagine if we did just as you prescribe and we gather all of these great stories and completely solve this mystery, what good would it do? We couldn't tell you. If I promise something to someone, I stand by my word. If I told a victim that I wouldn't tell the world what they stated, I won't.
157.3. I also don't want to be in the position of having knowledge that may save peoples lives and be unable to communicate it. When you live in a world where honesty and integrity are key, don't put yourself in a position of compromise, because that's where this would lead.
Thanks for the question!!
= = =
OUT OF CHARACTERS AGAIN. MORE NEXT POST.
.
155. posted on Sep, 25 2013 @ 19:39
155. reply to post by Dianec
155. Nisene marks park in Aptos.
155.1. I'm hearing you when you say parks cover these things up - close them out to clear the books. Years ago I was jogging through Nisene Marks park in Aptos, Ca (also near the epicenter of the Lima prieta quake). I was alone and about to round a corner about a mile up and got the strangest feeling. When jogging you don't usually stop but something made me stop and run in place and then turn around and leave.
155.2. My heart was racing from more than the short run I had engaged in thus far. It's almost like the further I got from that spot the more convinced I was I had made the right choice. I couldn't move fast enough. This is the only time this has happened to me during a run. I found out a few weeks later that a person disappeared up there (I cannot remember if male or female - this was quite a while back - early 90''s). I assumed instinct kicked in and there must have been a predator (human) hiding behind the big tree I stopped before.
155.3. I am wondering if you have any cases for those who have gone missing there - any strange circumstances. I'll get around to your book but in the meantime am curious about this location.
•••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••
DAVID PAULIDES:
155.1. Been to Nisene many times, use to live on High st in SC.
155.2. That park gets very dark the deeper you go in up above SJ/Soquel Rd. Go in up high in the park and walk down to Soquel, it is a gorgeous hike but very lonely...
155.3. Nothing in that area in regards to missing.
Thanks for the contact.
PS. Go to Gayles and get me crocodile....
= = =
156. posted on Sep, 25 2013 @ 20:23
156. reply to post by ecossiepossie
156.1. GIVEN Americans fondness for guns and the amount of serial killers at large.
. . . .
[BO XIAN NOTE: 1. I did not write those words. They were written in RESPONSE to one of my posts. 2. The rant is sooooo uninformed, unaware, imperceptive and generally dismissive of soooo much that Dave has written on his AMA thread that I think it would be insult to injury to give it more air time. So, I’m omitting it from this thread]
•••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• ••••••••••••••••••••••••••
DAVID PAULIDES:
Bo
[Sorry, Dave, I did not write those words in that post you are replying to. They were written IN REPLY to one of my posts.]
DAVID PAULIDES:
156.1. Just a few questions.
156.2. I think we as a society all need to have our minds comprehend issues in a rational method, without such we come to illogical conclusions based our on our breadth of knowledge, or lack of knowledge.
156.3. You've never read the books, never talked to investigators, never talked to SAR personnel, never read the official reports, how can you make such a rash judgement?
156.4. How do you know the circumstances of what we've documented in order for you to come to your conclusions?
156.5. Do you realize that many of the official reports we possess have statements from SAR and law enforcement stating they have no idea how the incident occurred????
165.6. I'm not offended, just don't understand how anyone would make such a statement without a base of knowledge of what we research.
= = =
157.
posted on Sep, 25 2013 @ 20:29
157. reply to post by Alien Abduct
157.1. At first I agreed with this. But then i thought....why not contact the victims and record information obtained by them for internal use only. Then after hundreds or so cases you can make a better detailed analysis of the broad spectrum of things. No one said you have to make public the detailed stories of certain cases, but I think if you could hold some sort of confidentiality standard you could make use of the invaluable information that would undoubtedly be spewing forth as fast as can be comprehended.
157.2. It seems to me that the questioning of the victims that are recovered is such a vital piece of the puzzle that especially in the case of the most strange cases in existence (of which you specialize in) this action would/should appear to be as an essential part of your investigation.
157.3. I think you get the point. My question is: Why do you not proceed in this manner?
157.4. EDIT TO ADD: I wan't to add emphasis on the fact that I would like Mr Paulides to answer why Mr Paulides chooses not to collect this information for internal purposes only.
•••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••
DAVID PAULIDES:
157.1. The groups stated NOT to make the initial step towards victims, we listen and we won't.
157.2. Can you imagine if we did just as you prescribe and we gather all of these great stories and completely solve this mystery, what good would it do? We couldn't tell you. If I promise something to someone, I stand by my word. If I told a victim that I wouldn't tell the world what they stated, I won't.
157.3. I also don't want to be in the position of having knowledge that may save peoples lives and be unable to communicate it. When you live in a world where honesty and integrity are key, don't put yourself in a position of compromise, because that's where this would lead.
Thanks for the question!!
= = =
OUT OF CHARACTERS AGAIN. MORE NEXT POST.
.
= = =
158. posted on Sep, 25 2013 @ 20:37
158. reply to post by SecretGoldfish
158.1. Seriously though, you *must* have some kind of working theory, or pet theory, about what is happening in a large fraction of these disappearances. I am betting you have more insight than a blanket 'it's complex' and are just not comfortable sharing it publicly . . . just a hunch. Which is too bad, because you have some interesting (and potentially useful) data and stories but your analysis of it stops short of what is needed.
158.2. You have pretty clearly ruled out Bigfoot, wild animals in general, serial killers . . . but are you brave enough to provide us with a list, wholly personal, of things you are ruling IN at this point?
158.3. Throw us a bone here David. Have a few beers, relax, and open up about what you suspect might be happening here.
158.4. A follow up question you might be more comfortable with: how many of the missing percentage-wise were experienced hikers who also had a gun?
Thanks. Good thread. I will be buying at least one of your books.
•••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••
DAVID PAULIDES:
158.1. Have you been reading these threads?
158.2. Many have sent accolades my way for not putting some groundless theory in front of them and trying to convince them its right.
158.3. You are incorrect on one BIG issue. I have not eliminated ANYTHING from the suspect list except a serial killer. I have stated that I have never named anything as a suspect.
158.4. This statement is truly, truly puzzling: "because you have some interesting (and potentially useful) data and stories but your analysis of it stops short of what is needed."
You have no idea what data we have, your guessing. You state it stops short of what's needed, needed for what?
158.5. I'm seriously trying to be patient and follow the logic in some of these statements and am having a very difficult time, and I don't want to ignore them, but I have a difficult time following the theme...
158.6. Statements such as "brave enough" are demeaning and are not constructive in a healthy conversation.
Good Luck.
= = =
END OF PAGE 26 FROM THE ORIGINAL AMA THREAD
158. posted on Sep, 25 2013 @ 20:37
158. reply to post by SecretGoldfish
158.1. Seriously though, you *must* have some kind of working theory, or pet theory, about what is happening in a large fraction of these disappearances. I am betting you have more insight than a blanket 'it's complex' and are just not comfortable sharing it publicly . . . just a hunch. Which is too bad, because you have some interesting (and potentially useful) data and stories but your analysis of it stops short of what is needed.
158.2. You have pretty clearly ruled out Bigfoot, wild animals in general, serial killers . . . but are you brave enough to provide us with a list, wholly personal, of things you are ruling IN at this point?
158.3. Throw us a bone here David. Have a few beers, relax, and open up about what you suspect might be happening here.
158.4. A follow up question you might be more comfortable with: how many of the missing percentage-wise were experienced hikers who also had a gun?
Thanks. Good thread. I will be buying at least one of your books.
•••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••
DAVID PAULIDES:
158.1. Have you been reading these threads?
158.2. Many have sent accolades my way for not putting some groundless theory in front of them and trying to convince them its right.
158.3. You are incorrect on one BIG issue. I have not eliminated ANYTHING from the suspect list except a serial killer. I have stated that I have never named anything as a suspect.
158.4. This statement is truly, truly puzzling: "because you have some interesting (and potentially useful) data and stories but your analysis of it stops short of what is needed."
You have no idea what data we have, your guessing. You state it stops short of what's needed, needed for what?
158.5. I'm seriously trying to be patient and follow the logic in some of these statements and am having a very difficult time, and I don't want to ignore them, but I have a difficult time following the theme...
158.6. Statements such as "brave enough" are demeaning and are not constructive in a healthy conversation.
Good Luck.
= = =
END OF PAGE 26 FROM THE ORIGINAL AMA THREAD
PAGE 27 FROM THE ORIGINAL AMA THREAD:
= = =
159. posted on Sep, 25 2013 @ 21:22
159. reply to post by Dianec
159.1. I would go to Gayle's to try this crocodile but am up North at this time:-(. Missing Santa Cruz. When I get back there in a couple of months I'll check this out. I'll save the hike for summer maybe. I haven't done the entire trail of the park since I found other places to run after that (right on Soquel after that incident). Grew up in Felton as well as SC so used to dark woods but this experience truly spooked me. Thank you for your response though. Knowing there is no mystery at this particular spot is reassuring - because it is too cool to not explore better.
159.2. I know I'm not supposed to ask many questions but one more if it's ok....
159.3. With these personal transponders - I have a winter coat that has one but don't have a clue how to use it (it says avalanche ready and I can feel a chip inside). Only bought it because it was on sale so it was just by luck it had this extra feature. In fact, I don't see many costs with these so move to the next thing - a transponder you carry. I see these things are expensive and assume the more expensive the better (maybe better technology). If you really wouldn't use one enough to justify spending the money on it - it would seem those less experienced (go into the woods less) would also be the least likely to have one.
159.4. What are the best alternatives? If carrying a cell phone these can be traced from my understanding - only until they lose battery power. I would assume this is the second best device to have on you, or would you recommend any other - more multi purpose location device.
159.5. in the end it would be ideal to rent these things - especially at national parks. That way the less experienced wouldn't have to weigh cost over amount of use it would get.
•••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• ••••••••••••••
DAVID PAULIDES:
159.1. . What you have in your coat is probably an avalanche transponder, a relatively short distance transponder of a signal so they can find you buried in the snow. The locator beacons are much more complex, send a signal that bounces off a satellite to NOAA. I've seen these as low as $110.
159.2. The places I go rarely have cell reception and where it exists, its sketchy.
159.3. The next best alternative, a satellite phone.
159.4. Some cost $200 and you purchase minutes in advance. I had one for many years and did not have a monthly fee. You need to search for the best deal, alaska and TX seem to have the most dealers.
159.5. Enjoy Nisene when you get back!!
.
= = =
160. posted on Sep, 25 2013 @ 21:27
160. reply to post by TheReclaimer
160.1. Hello and welcome Mr. Paulides. I have not commented on this forum in a while but you piqued my interest. You mentioned that some missing persons were found unusual distances away. Can you tell us what was the farthest distance you've encountered? Have you considered the possibility of spontaneous teleportation?
160.2. I recently was reading about the case of Gil Perez, a spanish soldier from the 1500s that teleported from the Philippines to Mexico instantly and was found by his peers months later. I imagine that if this story is true, and spontaneous teleportation is real, the teleportee would not always be fortunate enough to appear in a safe, populated area as in the case of Gil Perez.
•••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••
DAVID PAULIDES:
160.1. Yes, have heard of it, not sure how to connect the dots to what we have, especially since the literature on the topic is so vague. May have a difficult time convincing the skeptics (there are a few here) that this is what's happening.
Have a great night!!
= = =
162. posted on Sep, 25 2013 @ 23:18
162. reply to post by sonicology
162.1. Thank you for taking the time to come here and answer our questions. I have followed this topic with great interest and have been inspired to purchase a copy of Missing 411 Western US which I very much look forward to reading. I have read up to page 21 of this thread and do not recall this being asked, apologies if I am wrong and I am repeating an earlier question.
162.2. 1) Are you familiar with the Todd Sees case? If so do you feel there is a connection between it and the other cases which you have detailed here already?
162.3. 2) Apologies if you feel uncomfortable answering this but I was wondering if, given the real possibility of a conspiracy to keep the reality of the circumstances of these disappearances out of public knowledge, whether you have ever felt threatened or even endangered by anyone working on behalf of an agency who would rather your research didn't become available for public consumption.
Many thanks again for your time.
•••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• ••••••••••
DAVID PAULIDES:
162.1. We did look at the Sees case and found that very, very few facts are available.
162.2. Our group of investigators deal in facts, if there are few, it's hard to qualify the case for study.
162.3. We need to know specific facts in the case, who, what, where, when, why , how, weather, witness statements, and a plethora of other elements that appear cannot be gathered in the Sees case.
Thanks for the question.
= = =
163. posted on Sep, 25 2013 @ 23:50
163. reply to post by RunForTheHills
163.1. first of all I would like to "Thank You" for the information that you have shared. This is the first I have ever heard of these strange disappearances. I have always loved the forest and do a lot of trail riding and camping. My only two questions are: has there ever been any strange disappearances in the (1) Shawnee Forest in Southern IL? Or (2) Sandpoint Idaho?
••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••
DAVID PAULIDES:
163.1. NW Idaho has several disappearances.
163.2. Shawnee- near that area- 1
END OF PAGE 27 OF THE ORIGINAL AMA THREAD
= = =
159. posted on Sep, 25 2013 @ 21:22
159. reply to post by Dianec
159.1. I would go to Gayle's to try this crocodile but am up North at this time:-(. Missing Santa Cruz. When I get back there in a couple of months I'll check this out. I'll save the hike for summer maybe. I haven't done the entire trail of the park since I found other places to run after that (right on Soquel after that incident). Grew up in Felton as well as SC so used to dark woods but this experience truly spooked me. Thank you for your response though. Knowing there is no mystery at this particular spot is reassuring - because it is too cool to not explore better.
159.2. I know I'm not supposed to ask many questions but one more if it's ok....
159.3. With these personal transponders - I have a winter coat that has one but don't have a clue how to use it (it says avalanche ready and I can feel a chip inside). Only bought it because it was on sale so it was just by luck it had this extra feature. In fact, I don't see many costs with these so move to the next thing - a transponder you carry. I see these things are expensive and assume the more expensive the better (maybe better technology). If you really wouldn't use one enough to justify spending the money on it - it would seem those less experienced (go into the woods less) would also be the least likely to have one.
159.4. What are the best alternatives? If carrying a cell phone these can be traced from my understanding - only until they lose battery power. I would assume this is the second best device to have on you, or would you recommend any other - more multi purpose location device.
159.5. in the end it would be ideal to rent these things - especially at national parks. That way the less experienced wouldn't have to weigh cost over amount of use it would get.
•••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• ••••••••••••••
DAVID PAULIDES:
159.1. . What you have in your coat is probably an avalanche transponder, a relatively short distance transponder of a signal so they can find you buried in the snow. The locator beacons are much more complex, send a signal that bounces off a satellite to NOAA. I've seen these as low as $110.
159.2. The places I go rarely have cell reception and where it exists, its sketchy.
159.3. The next best alternative, a satellite phone.
159.4. Some cost $200 and you purchase minutes in advance. I had one for many years and did not have a monthly fee. You need to search for the best deal, alaska and TX seem to have the most dealers.
159.5. Enjoy Nisene when you get back!!
.
= = =
160. posted on Sep, 25 2013 @ 21:27
160. reply to post by TheReclaimer
160.1. Hello and welcome Mr. Paulides. I have not commented on this forum in a while but you piqued my interest. You mentioned that some missing persons were found unusual distances away. Can you tell us what was the farthest distance you've encountered? Have you considered the possibility of spontaneous teleportation?
160.2. I recently was reading about the case of Gil Perez, a spanish soldier from the 1500s that teleported from the Philippines to Mexico instantly and was found by his peers months later. I imagine that if this story is true, and spontaneous teleportation is real, the teleportee would not always be fortunate enough to appear in a safe, populated area as in the case of Gil Perez.
•••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••
DAVID PAULIDES:
160.1. Yes, have heard of it, not sure how to connect the dots to what we have, especially since the literature on the topic is so vague. May have a difficult time convincing the skeptics (there are a few here) that this is what's happening.
Have a great night!!
= = =
162. posted on Sep, 25 2013 @ 23:18
162. reply to post by sonicology
162.1. Thank you for taking the time to come here and answer our questions. I have followed this topic with great interest and have been inspired to purchase a copy of Missing 411 Western US which I very much look forward to reading. I have read up to page 21 of this thread and do not recall this being asked, apologies if I am wrong and I am repeating an earlier question.
162.2. 1) Are you familiar with the Todd Sees case? If so do you feel there is a connection between it and the other cases which you have detailed here already?
162.3. 2) Apologies if you feel uncomfortable answering this but I was wondering if, given the real possibility of a conspiracy to keep the reality of the circumstances of these disappearances out of public knowledge, whether you have ever felt threatened or even endangered by anyone working on behalf of an agency who would rather your research didn't become available for public consumption.
Many thanks again for your time.
•••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• ••••••••••
DAVID PAULIDES:
162.1. We did look at the Sees case and found that very, very few facts are available.
162.2. Our group of investigators deal in facts, if there are few, it's hard to qualify the case for study.
162.3. We need to know specific facts in the case, who, what, where, when, why , how, weather, witness statements, and a plethora of other elements that appear cannot be gathered in the Sees case.
Thanks for the question.
= = =
163. posted on Sep, 25 2013 @ 23:50
163. reply to post by RunForTheHills
163.1. first of all I would like to "Thank You" for the information that you have shared. This is the first I have ever heard of these strange disappearances. I have always loved the forest and do a lot of trail riding and camping. My only two questions are: has there ever been any strange disappearances in the (1) Shawnee Forest in Southern IL? Or (2) Sandpoint Idaho?
••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••
DAVID PAULIDES:
163.1. NW Idaho has several disappearances.
163.2. Shawnee- near that area- 1
END OF PAGE 27 OF THE ORIGINAL AMA THREAD
FROM PAGE 28 OF THE ORIGINAL AMA THREAD
= = =
164. posted on Sep, 26 2013 @ 08:59
164. reply to post by xSeraphim
164.1. I didn't read your books yet but I plan on reading them.
164.2. I just want to say that I respect what you are doing.
164.3. Now I want to give you some info on a forest we have here in Romania.
164.4. It's called Hoia Baciu Forest and is located near Cluj.
164.5. Destination Truth did an episode on it and it was incredible.
164.6. There's an incident where one of their cameraman gets grabbed by something and gets tossed.
164.7. He has no memory of what happened and he gets scraches on his arm.
164.8. There's lots of story's of people entering the forest never to be found or they pop up miles away "drifting" like they were on drugs.
164.9. Maybe this can help you or give you some more insight into what's happening in the US and around the world.
164.0.1 I believe the cameraman from Destination Truth was a target but he was lucky his friends were nearby.
164.0.2. Hope my English doesn't make your brain bleed
••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••
DAVID PAULIDES:
164.1 We heard of the episode, fascinating stuff.
164.2. The problem with investigating missing people in that part of the world is finding credible information and facts on the incidents.
Thank you very much for the contact!!
= = =
165. posted on Sep, 26 2013 @ 09:02
165. reply to post by Kinzig
165.1. My question is , you have gathered evidence of clusters where groups of people have went missing in one spot, did you in your work with the first nations peoples find any evidence in the form of handed down storys of cluster spots of any missing first nations folks in bygone days..and if so did any overlap with recent clusters.
165.2. Thanks in anticipation..looking forward to buying and reading your books..
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DAVID PAULIDES:
165.1. There are no groups of people that disappear in the clusters, there are pairs.
165.2. We have not heard of clusters of missing Native Americans. I have no doubt they exist, the issue is finding an elder that would have those facts, that would be a rare find. As I've stated in this forum in the past, these clusters don't pop out and are not obvious. They are disappearances that came at lengthy intervals for sometimes 150 years, almost as though someone did not want to draw attention to what was happening.
All the best!!
END OF DAVID’S 2 RESPONSES ON PAGE 28 OF THE AMA THREAD.
= = =
164. posted on Sep, 26 2013 @ 08:59
164. reply to post by xSeraphim
164.1. I didn't read your books yet but I plan on reading them.
164.2. I just want to say that I respect what you are doing.
164.3. Now I want to give you some info on a forest we have here in Romania.
164.4. It's called Hoia Baciu Forest and is located near Cluj.
164.5. Destination Truth did an episode on it and it was incredible.
164.6. There's an incident where one of their cameraman gets grabbed by something and gets tossed.
164.7. He has no memory of what happened and he gets scraches on his arm.
164.8. There's lots of story's of people entering the forest never to be found or they pop up miles away "drifting" like they were on drugs.
164.9. Maybe this can help you or give you some more insight into what's happening in the US and around the world.
164.0.1 I believe the cameraman from Destination Truth was a target but he was lucky his friends were nearby.
164.0.2. Hope my English doesn't make your brain bleed
••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••
DAVID PAULIDES:
164.1 We heard of the episode, fascinating stuff.
164.2. The problem with investigating missing people in that part of the world is finding credible information and facts on the incidents.
Thank you very much for the contact!!
= = =
165. posted on Sep, 26 2013 @ 09:02
165. reply to post by Kinzig
165.1. My question is , you have gathered evidence of clusters where groups of people have went missing in one spot, did you in your work with the first nations peoples find any evidence in the form of handed down storys of cluster spots of any missing first nations folks in bygone days..and if so did any overlap with recent clusters.
165.2. Thanks in anticipation..looking forward to buying and reading your books..
•••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• ••••••••••••••••••
DAVID PAULIDES:
165.1. There are no groups of people that disappear in the clusters, there are pairs.
165.2. We have not heard of clusters of missing Native Americans. I have no doubt they exist, the issue is finding an elder that would have those facts, that would be a rare find. As I've stated in this forum in the past, these clusters don't pop out and are not obvious. They are disappearances that came at lengthy intervals for sometimes 150 years, almost as though someone did not want to draw attention to what was happening.
All the best!!
END OF DAVID’S 2 RESPONSES ON PAGE 28 OF THE AMA THREAD.
PAGE 29 OF THE ORIGINAL AMA THREAD
= = =
166. posted on Sep, 26 2013 @ 09:11
166. reply to post by SandySearcher
166.1. David I have read 411 Missing Western U.S. & look forward to reading the other volumes. Also, I've heard several of your radio interviews. IMHO, you are a well trained, intelligent, compassionate and dedicated investigator.
166.2. I've read various stories on the Todd Sees case and frankly, I thought it had been debunked. I'm only an armchair internet detective and even I find researching these cases intensely frustrating. What first appears as a truly mysterious & unexplained event is revealed to be a tragic incident upon further research.
166.3. Surely, we've all read about the mystery of our choice only to be disappointed by the author's less than stellar investigative skills. For me it's not about agreeing with an opinion as much as it is about being challenged to come up with another credible explanation. I believe much of what I read in the Missing book was investigated as thoroughly as possible with the information available. Naturally, it's frustrating with the oldest cases to have so little to go on but the mystery remains. It's heartbreaking to imagine the grief these families must experience, especially those who've lost young children. Those PA cases are quite disturbing.
166.4. David, it truly is shocking the NPS does not keep any type of data base for these incidents, especially with today's technology. Since you've published your books, have you been contacted by any other NPS employees or LE who offered more information on this subject? If there's no database, no one collecting the stories for further investigation, how will the mystery ever be solved? Thanks for your hard work and bringing this topic out of the shadows.
•••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••
DAVID PAULIDES:
166.1. Understand, to track missing people is not rocket science and it doesn't cost thousands of dollars. This could be easily accomplished with a clipboard, graph paper and commitment. Place a clipboard and paper in the head officer of all park managers. Divide the paper into categories, location of disappearance/date/time/name/DOB/family contact/report#. Every time someone goes missing, you log onto the paper the facts, if they are found, note it. At the end of every month, fax the paper to someone at NPS headquarters where the data is held on a laptop. Anyone who says that NPS does not have the money or technology to accomplish this, exposes the fact that they don't want the data to be maintained publicly and subsequently made available to the public.
166.2. We hope to find a congressman or senator that oversees NPS, understands the issues and forces them to comply.
Thanks for the question.
= = =
167. posted on Sep, 26 2013 @ 09:16
167. reply to post by Dreamkidd
167.1. Thank you for your ongoing efforts to engage with so many users here personally. I have been on this site for many years now and i must say, this is one of the most intriguing threads in my opinion.
Some questions;
167.2. a) Are you familiar with any events specific to your criteria here in New Zealand? We have some pretty vast and extensive, uninhabited wilderness areas.
167.3. b) Are many of the hikers, children etc that are eventually found dead but relatively in tact e.g not just bones or a skull cap and tibia mutilated at all and if so, is there a trend to the type of damage inflicted e.g certain limbs missing, broken, twisted, scratches, odd markings?
167.4. c) Are there ever signs of sexual mutilation to the genitalia or signs of rape or damage resulting from?
167.5. d) You mentioned that trends may lean towards children, disabled, Caucasian and those with animals e.g dogs but are there any other trends that might accompany this list?
167.6. e) Is the ratio male to female pretty even or skewed?
Once again, very very interesting.
Thank you for taking the time!
•••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••
DAVID PAULIDES:
167.1 In "Missing 411-Eastern U.S. we list the victims that we document. The total at that time was 411, 296 men, 115 women. Most disappearances in any year, 1949, 11, all males.
167.2. Never any indications of sexual mutilation.
167.3. The remains that are found are not intact normally, it's an unusual characteristic that is one identifying feature.
Thanks for the question.
= = =
168. posted on Sep, 26 2013 @ 09:23
168. reply to post by Komodo
168.1. Since there are massive disappearances and the SAS and other US & Canada governments KNOW what is going on, I would think its their responsibility ALSO to help the rest of us. Because at this point, it very well could start hysteria due to 'mushroom mentality' of those that KNOW what the truth is and people will start assuming the worst; and the only thing we have so far to help us is.. 'stay out of the woods'
..............
168.2. Question: What are the SAS, US & Canadian governments doing to help protect the rest of us? If at all ?? !!! (if this is truly the case of massive scale as you've stated so far..)
•••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••
DAVID PAULIDES:
168.1. Whatever is causing the disappearances is unknown to us. It would appear that our government knows something is happening. It may be that the feds can't control whatever is happening and everyone knows when they can't control something, they won't admit it exists.
Thanks for the question.
= = =
OUT OF CHARACTERS AGAIN. MORE NEXT POST.
= = =
166. posted on Sep, 26 2013 @ 09:11
166. reply to post by SandySearcher
166.1. David I have read 411 Missing Western U.S. & look forward to reading the other volumes. Also, I've heard several of your radio interviews. IMHO, you are a well trained, intelligent, compassionate and dedicated investigator.
166.2. I've read various stories on the Todd Sees case and frankly, I thought it had been debunked. I'm only an armchair internet detective and even I find researching these cases intensely frustrating. What first appears as a truly mysterious & unexplained event is revealed to be a tragic incident upon further research.
166.3. Surely, we've all read about the mystery of our choice only to be disappointed by the author's less than stellar investigative skills. For me it's not about agreeing with an opinion as much as it is about being challenged to come up with another credible explanation. I believe much of what I read in the Missing book was investigated as thoroughly as possible with the information available. Naturally, it's frustrating with the oldest cases to have so little to go on but the mystery remains. It's heartbreaking to imagine the grief these families must experience, especially those who've lost young children. Those PA cases are quite disturbing.
166.4. David, it truly is shocking the NPS does not keep any type of data base for these incidents, especially with today's technology. Since you've published your books, have you been contacted by any other NPS employees or LE who offered more information on this subject? If there's no database, no one collecting the stories for further investigation, how will the mystery ever be solved? Thanks for your hard work and bringing this topic out of the shadows.
•••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••
DAVID PAULIDES:
166.1. Understand, to track missing people is not rocket science and it doesn't cost thousands of dollars. This could be easily accomplished with a clipboard, graph paper and commitment. Place a clipboard and paper in the head officer of all park managers. Divide the paper into categories, location of disappearance/date/time/name/DOB/family contact/report#. Every time someone goes missing, you log onto the paper the facts, if they are found, note it. At the end of every month, fax the paper to someone at NPS headquarters where the data is held on a laptop. Anyone who says that NPS does not have the money or technology to accomplish this, exposes the fact that they don't want the data to be maintained publicly and subsequently made available to the public.
166.2. We hope to find a congressman or senator that oversees NPS, understands the issues and forces them to comply.
Thanks for the question.
= = =
167. posted on Sep, 26 2013 @ 09:16
167. reply to post by Dreamkidd
167.1. Thank you for your ongoing efforts to engage with so many users here personally. I have been on this site for many years now and i must say, this is one of the most intriguing threads in my opinion.
Some questions;
167.2. a) Are you familiar with any events specific to your criteria here in New Zealand? We have some pretty vast and extensive, uninhabited wilderness areas.
167.3. b) Are many of the hikers, children etc that are eventually found dead but relatively in tact e.g not just bones or a skull cap and tibia mutilated at all and if so, is there a trend to the type of damage inflicted e.g certain limbs missing, broken, twisted, scratches, odd markings?
167.4. c) Are there ever signs of sexual mutilation to the genitalia or signs of rape or damage resulting from?
167.5. d) You mentioned that trends may lean towards children, disabled, Caucasian and those with animals e.g dogs but are there any other trends that might accompany this list?
167.6. e) Is the ratio male to female pretty even or skewed?
Once again, very very interesting.
Thank you for taking the time!
•••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••
DAVID PAULIDES:
167.1 In "Missing 411-Eastern U.S. we list the victims that we document. The total at that time was 411, 296 men, 115 women. Most disappearances in any year, 1949, 11, all males.
167.2. Never any indications of sexual mutilation.
167.3. The remains that are found are not intact normally, it's an unusual characteristic that is one identifying feature.
Thanks for the question.
= = =
168. posted on Sep, 26 2013 @ 09:23
168. reply to post by Komodo
168.1. Since there are massive disappearances and the SAS and other US & Canada governments KNOW what is going on, I would think its their responsibility ALSO to help the rest of us. Because at this point, it very well could start hysteria due to 'mushroom mentality' of those that KNOW what the truth is and people will start assuming the worst; and the only thing we have so far to help us is.. 'stay out of the woods'
..............
168.2. Question: What are the SAS, US & Canadian governments doing to help protect the rest of us? If at all ?? !!! (if this is truly the case of massive scale as you've stated so far..)
•••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••
DAVID PAULIDES:
168.1. Whatever is causing the disappearances is unknown to us. It would appear that our government knows something is happening. It may be that the feds can't control whatever is happening and everyone knows when they can't control something, they won't admit it exists.
Thanks for the question.
= = =
OUT OF CHARACTERS AGAIN. MORE NEXT POST.
= = =
169. posted on Sep, 26 2013 @ 09:27
169. reply to post by akalepos
169.1. Thank you very much for all this banter and your responses. Without the passion you hold for this search, the frustration level for the lack of a cogent, logical answer, would seem to be very high.
169.2. Of the many things I read here, (and had to give up after awhile) was the story of you and the 70yr old friend touting 50+ years outdoor experience, and the "dead spot" you guys found out in the woods... NO Sound, remember?
169.3. For all of my life I have had an interest in and have experienced much abnormal phenomena. Many would call it 'paranormal' It is essentially the same notion. I actually wonder about the nature of "temporal reality". I remain unconvinced that our reality is "set", black and white, and stable as the majority of people justifiably believe. I think reality is in flux, exactly the same as the energy it is made from. It is "possible" that "tears" appear in reality and people simply walk through these "doorways", some people call them, and can't find their way back it happens quite by accident.
169.4. The old OSI investigated such cases years ago. I have no idea what they do these days. I think you and your buddy were on the edge of a "vortex", for lack of a better word, and had you guys continued in those woods you might have ended up in some odd parallel existence, the totality of which one can only infer in a metaphysical way.
169.5. A tool that could possibly help your search in areas that have many missing persons is a device that can measure magnetic flux. Oppenheimer and those folks had such equipment in the 40's, so I believe that a hard search might find something that can help measure if there is something "funny" in an energetic manner in some of these areas.
169.6. It might Never produce the empirical evidence that one ought seek, but can help produce a possibly reasonable cause for the disappearances. There are reports that the gov has that you might never have access to of people simply walking down the street in one city and **suddenly** being in another city.
169.7. You MIGHT contact Dan Akroyd to discover where he found the reports and if they are verifiable in any way. H made the reports public in that "paranormal" TV Show he produced about 10 -15 years back. He does maintain interests in that direction and would well remember hi sources.
169.8. I am not trying to introduce some sort of "kooky" theory into this. I just simply think there are other explanations yet to be explored. I am not alone in the assumption that reality is not really what we think it is. I have had many very odd experiences that have made me question the nature of existence. No, we do not live in the Matrix, nice story line, yet something more seems to be happening and has probably always been happening.
169.9. Good Luck David, on this task you have taken on. Thank you for sticking your nose in there. God knows someone MUST take look!
•••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• ••••
DAVID PAULIDES:
169.1 Thanks for the recommendation and polite nature of your note.
169.2. I will put this on our list for discussion and see where it goes. I know very little on the topic so need to dig a little deeper.
Thanks again for the contact!!
= = =
OUT OF CHARACTERS AGAIN. MORE NEXT POST.
169. posted on Sep, 26 2013 @ 09:27
169. reply to post by akalepos
169.1. Thank you very much for all this banter and your responses. Without the passion you hold for this search, the frustration level for the lack of a cogent, logical answer, would seem to be very high.
169.2. Of the many things I read here, (and had to give up after awhile) was the story of you and the 70yr old friend touting 50+ years outdoor experience, and the "dead spot" you guys found out in the woods... NO Sound, remember?
169.3. For all of my life I have had an interest in and have experienced much abnormal phenomena. Many would call it 'paranormal' It is essentially the same notion. I actually wonder about the nature of "temporal reality". I remain unconvinced that our reality is "set", black and white, and stable as the majority of people justifiably believe. I think reality is in flux, exactly the same as the energy it is made from. It is "possible" that "tears" appear in reality and people simply walk through these "doorways", some people call them, and can't find their way back it happens quite by accident.
169.4. The old OSI investigated such cases years ago. I have no idea what they do these days. I think you and your buddy were on the edge of a "vortex", for lack of a better word, and had you guys continued in those woods you might have ended up in some odd parallel existence, the totality of which one can only infer in a metaphysical way.
169.5. A tool that could possibly help your search in areas that have many missing persons is a device that can measure magnetic flux. Oppenheimer and those folks had such equipment in the 40's, so I believe that a hard search might find something that can help measure if there is something "funny" in an energetic manner in some of these areas.
169.6. It might Never produce the empirical evidence that one ought seek, but can help produce a possibly reasonable cause for the disappearances. There are reports that the gov has that you might never have access to of people simply walking down the street in one city and **suddenly** being in another city.
169.7. You MIGHT contact Dan Akroyd to discover where he found the reports and if they are verifiable in any way. H made the reports public in that "paranormal" TV Show he produced about 10 -15 years back. He does maintain interests in that direction and would well remember hi sources.
169.8. I am not trying to introduce some sort of "kooky" theory into this. I just simply think there are other explanations yet to be explored. I am not alone in the assumption that reality is not really what we think it is. I have had many very odd experiences that have made me question the nature of existence. No, we do not live in the Matrix, nice story line, yet something more seems to be happening and has probably always been happening.
169.9. Good Luck David, on this task you have taken on. Thank you for sticking your nose in there. God knows someone MUST take look!
•••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• ••••
DAVID PAULIDES:
169.1 Thanks for the recommendation and polite nature of your note.
169.2. I will put this on our list for discussion and see where it goes. I know very little on the topic so need to dig a little deeper.
Thanks again for the contact!!
= = =
OUT OF CHARACTERS AGAIN. MORE NEXT POST.
= = =
170. posted on Sep, 26 2013 @ 09:44
170. reply to post by arosebyanyothername
170.1. as good digging will do, I found an account of Katherine Van Alst online with a panoramic view of the area plus more. Granted it looks different than 1946 by a long shot if anyone has seen old pictures of the Den, but it wouldn't take long for a child to disappear/especially since the park was much more wild. According to the story she lost her way on a creek returning to her family's cabin. Frankly I would not have let a child wander around by herself.
170.2. As far as traveling so far and not succumbing. Our summers here are usually quite pleasant especially in June which is traditionally quite mild. Even on the hottest of days (unless we have the rare heat wave of a few years ago) the shade of trees offers much respite.
170.3. I also read the account in local papers at the time where Katharine described drinking from various water sources and eating berries which are plentiful in June (and quite tasty I might add).
170.4. While it is boggling to imagine she covered so much distance and heights, in my 30 years here there have been numerous missing children stories and by and large they have been found alive even many many days after disappearance and have traveled amazing distances/children much younger than Katherine.
170.5. I estimate Katherine traveled between 5 and 6 miles daily which is really not that much for a child who is actively looking for her family (I easily walked that as a child and could climb quite high). It is not unusual for scores of volunteers to look , close to a hundred or more and yet they miss finding the child on first, second and even third canvassing. Winter of course is a different story but their have been some survival stories at that time also.
170.6. When she was found she was in reasonably good shape except for a lot of insect bites/which also would be standard for June. Growing up barefoot myself and spending a lot of time in pine woods filled with sharp cones I see no conflict. Children's bodies are amazingly supple and resilient. I wish I could say that now *grin*.
170.7. As the neutral observer I think the truth is often found somewhere in the middle. I can see many plausible explanations for Katharine's disappearance and survival.
170.8. Thank you for making me aware of her story. Any opportunity to further hone critical thinking skills I welcome.
~rose
@southbeach…thanks so much for the additional link. I look forward to reading *smile*
@ BO XIAN…I think you make some very valid suggestions *kudos*
•••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••
DAVID PAULIDES:
170.1. Katherine was not near her cabin, she was at a small dam in a creek at the park, Devils Den.
170.2. She disappeared and was eventually found 7 miles (as the crow flies) from the point last seen.
170.3. Searchers estimated she traveled 24-36 miles in her trip.
170.4. When she disappeared, the sheriff stated he doubted the child went into the woods.
170.5. She was found in a cave on a mountain top 800' higher in elevation then where she disappeared.
170.6. I cite two articles where these facts were presented. All of our stories state exactly where we gleaned our facts.
170.7. 1. Our group deals in facts. Fact #1, SAR teams work off grids (set perimeters) based on the study of behavior of people in certain age brackets. Robert Koester has written one of the top books for SAR. He stated that an 8 year old should be found 95% of the time in a distance of 7 miles or less, total trip. Katherine supposedly traveled 24-36 miles.
170.8. 2. Katherine wasn't wearing shoes, just a bathing suit, this should obviously inhibit her travel. The girl was playing in water in a creek prior to disappearing. What logic would someone utilize to justify walking uphill into a jungle like atmosphere away from the safety of the creek where she was playing? Think of the incredible odds of Katherine having hundreds of square miles to hike, she finds a cave with spring water running from it and is found in that location.
170.9. This story defies 99.99% of all missing girl stories we've read, thus the inclusion.
Have a great day.
= = =
171. posted on Sep, 26 2013 @ 09:51
171. reply to post by Philippines
171.1. I can understand the process taking long and information being passed on word of mouth only, if at all, especially in the remote places.
171.2. Would Bruno Manser be one of the candidates for missing people in Borneo out of curiosity?
171.3. What set of requirements define geographical locations to merit the region as a hotspot for unexplained disappeared people?
Thanks again for your time =)
•••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••
DAVID PAULIDES:
171.1 No, Manser is not one, too few facts surround his disappearance. There are no less then 4 theories about what happened to him, too many theories, too few facts.
Thanks again
END OF PAGE 29 OF THE ORIGINAL AMA THREAD
170. posted on Sep, 26 2013 @ 09:44
170. reply to post by arosebyanyothername
170.1. as good digging will do, I found an account of Katherine Van Alst online with a panoramic view of the area plus more. Granted it looks different than 1946 by a long shot if anyone has seen old pictures of the Den, but it wouldn't take long for a child to disappear/especially since the park was much more wild. According to the story she lost her way on a creek returning to her family's cabin. Frankly I would not have let a child wander around by herself.
170.2. As far as traveling so far and not succumbing. Our summers here are usually quite pleasant especially in June which is traditionally quite mild. Even on the hottest of days (unless we have the rare heat wave of a few years ago) the shade of trees offers much respite.
170.3. I also read the account in local papers at the time where Katharine described drinking from various water sources and eating berries which are plentiful in June (and quite tasty I might add).
170.4. While it is boggling to imagine she covered so much distance and heights, in my 30 years here there have been numerous missing children stories and by and large they have been found alive even many many days after disappearance and have traveled amazing distances/children much younger than Katherine.
170.5. I estimate Katherine traveled between 5 and 6 miles daily which is really not that much for a child who is actively looking for her family (I easily walked that as a child and could climb quite high). It is not unusual for scores of volunteers to look , close to a hundred or more and yet they miss finding the child on first, second and even third canvassing. Winter of course is a different story but their have been some survival stories at that time also.
170.6. When she was found she was in reasonably good shape except for a lot of insect bites/which also would be standard for June. Growing up barefoot myself and spending a lot of time in pine woods filled with sharp cones I see no conflict. Children's bodies are amazingly supple and resilient. I wish I could say that now *grin*.
170.7. As the neutral observer I think the truth is often found somewhere in the middle. I can see many plausible explanations for Katharine's disappearance and survival.
170.8. Thank you for making me aware of her story. Any opportunity to further hone critical thinking skills I welcome.
~rose
@southbeach…thanks so much for the additional link. I look forward to reading *smile*
@ BO XIAN…I think you make some very valid suggestions *kudos*
•••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••
DAVID PAULIDES:
170.1. Katherine was not near her cabin, she was at a small dam in a creek at the park, Devils Den.
170.2. She disappeared and was eventually found 7 miles (as the crow flies) from the point last seen.
170.3. Searchers estimated she traveled 24-36 miles in her trip.
170.4. When she disappeared, the sheriff stated he doubted the child went into the woods.
170.5. She was found in a cave on a mountain top 800' higher in elevation then where she disappeared.
170.6. I cite two articles where these facts were presented. All of our stories state exactly where we gleaned our facts.
170.7. 1. Our group deals in facts. Fact #1, SAR teams work off grids (set perimeters) based on the study of behavior of people in certain age brackets. Robert Koester has written one of the top books for SAR. He stated that an 8 year old should be found 95% of the time in a distance of 7 miles or less, total trip. Katherine supposedly traveled 24-36 miles.
170.8. 2. Katherine wasn't wearing shoes, just a bathing suit, this should obviously inhibit her travel. The girl was playing in water in a creek prior to disappearing. What logic would someone utilize to justify walking uphill into a jungle like atmosphere away from the safety of the creek where she was playing? Think of the incredible odds of Katherine having hundreds of square miles to hike, she finds a cave with spring water running from it and is found in that location.
170.9. This story defies 99.99% of all missing girl stories we've read, thus the inclusion.
Have a great day.
= = =
171. posted on Sep, 26 2013 @ 09:51
171. reply to post by Philippines
171.1. I can understand the process taking long and information being passed on word of mouth only, if at all, especially in the remote places.
171.2. Would Bruno Manser be one of the candidates for missing people in Borneo out of curiosity?
171.3. What set of requirements define geographical locations to merit the region as a hotspot for unexplained disappeared people?
Thanks again for your time =)
•••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••
DAVID PAULIDES:
171.1 No, Manser is not one, too few facts surround his disappearance. There are no less then 4 theories about what happened to him, too many theories, too few facts.
Thanks again
END OF PAGE 29 OF THE ORIGINAL AMA THREAD
172. posted on Sep, 26 2013 @ 11:41
DAVID PAULIDES:
This will be my final 48 hour post.
I want to thank every person who wrote a polite and interesting question.
I can say that this experience has been interesting and exhausting.
There has never been a point, in any of my research where I had interactions like I had here.
I know that the vast majority of you will never meet a parent who has lost their child, never knowing where they are or what happened. That life void has to be the worst experience any parent could have. The most riveting and emotional interviews I have ever done was with one of those parents, Dennis Martins father, Bill.
Looking back in my career, there have been dozens of times where I investigated missing teenagers, young kids and adults, on nearly every occasion the disappearance turned out to be voluntary. A seasoned investigator could become very calloused to another case and allow that series of experiences to push them to generalize. Ah, this is just another missing person case, probably bad parenting, poor relationship, people feeling sorry for themselves, etc, etc. What I learned years ago, you can NEVER generalize, about anything.
Just because you had five experiences where it didn't end the way you thought, that doesn't mean the 6th will turn out the same. If you lose sight of this fact, the relationships and communications you have will be less then honorable and you'll never get to the truth behind the issue.
The background behind the Martin case was pretty straight forward. Dennis disappeared on a rural field in Rocky Mountain National park. What followed is a series of incidents that are truly unreal. When we started to investigate this incident, it appeared that Mr. Martin had been lied to by the investigators inside the National Park Service and by the FBI. It specifically looked as if they were withholding the most valuable information that was gathered in the case.
One of the biggest revenue generators in the Knoxville area is Rocky Mountain National Park. In 2010, (www.nps.gov...) this article states that the park generated 818 million in revenue for the gateway communities, this is HUGE. The number of businesses surrounding the park that are dependent on the park visitors for revenue is large.
If the park admits that a small boy might have been abducted, this could have a major effect on the surrounding communities and park visitations. Ah, but there wasn't just one mysterious disappearance, there have been several. The theory behind the Martin abduction wasn't mine, the retired head tracker for the park service states that he now believes Dennis was abducted.
When I met Mr. Martin at his house, the same house he lived when Dennis disappeared, the man still looked the same as in 1969. He came to the door, I explained who I was and asked for a few minutes of his time. He explained that this disappearance had had a major impact on the life of he and his wife and that he had promised his wife it would no longer be discussed. I explained that I had traveled from California specifically to speak with him and asked for just a few minutes. He closed the door behind him and stepped onto the front porch.
When Mr. Martin and I started to talk, the man had tears in his eyes. The disappearance of his son had destroyed this families life. At the time of their biggest need, they turned to the NPS for assistance and direction on finding Dennis. Mr. Martin told me that the NPS, investigators and the press had lied and withheld information, I explained what I knew, he was surprised. I asked a few deep questions that probably have never been asked.
I explained that I knew the "Key" family had seen something on a hillside in a reasonable time frame after Dennis disappeared and wanted to know if there was something else about this that wasn't released. Mr. Martin stated that the FBI and NPS never wanted this information released to him or the public. They also never wanted the public to know that whatever was seen on that hillside, was carrying something on its shoulder. I believe that the direct impression he wanted to leave was that Dennis could've been on that shoulder.
The NPS and FBI told Mr. Martin that the time frames for this observation didn't work, that was a LIE. Dwight McCarter (the tracker for the park service at the time) and Mr. Martin quickly walked from Spence Field to the point of the "Key" observation in a time frame that would've made the sighting possible.
Imagine at the time of your greatest need, when you were absolutely at your lowest point in life, the one time when you needed the governmental agencies there to assist, find and comfort and they do exactly the opposite. You've just lost your most important possession and now the people you've always looked to as honorable turn out to be something quite different.
The last question I ask any witness before I leave, "Is there something about this incident that isn't known by the public and is something I should understand?" Mr. Martin stated that there was. He asked if I was aware of the number of disappearances in the mountains near the time Dennis disappeared, I named them. He asked if I knew the FBI agent that was on scene in each of those cases, I named him. He asked if I knew what happened to him, I stated I did not. Mr. Martin stated that the agent committed suicide. This was later confirmed. It was apparent that Mr. Martin gave us this information for a specific reason.
Our investigation into the Dennis Martin disappearance uncovered several major facts that the public does not know. The Martin family has never had justice in this case and has never experienced support and honesty from the NPS or the Knoxville Press. Each one of the four major television networks in Knoxville refused to report on any of this information. Do I understand why Mr. Martin refuses to talk to the press, absolutely. The support mechanisms meant to support victim families failed the Martins.
When I walked away from meeting Mr. Martin, I had tears in my eyes. I know I could never feel the totality of his pain, but I felt some small part of this fathers loss. He lost his son and we weren't there to support him. "WE", I mean we as people. If we start to put our compassion, understanding and honesty on the shelf and work towards an agenda, or allow our behavior to be controlled by past experiences causing us to generalize, we have lost a large part of our humanity.
Thank you for the experience on ATS
David Paulides
www.canammissing.com...
DAVID PAULIDES:
This will be my final 48 hour post.
I want to thank every person who wrote a polite and interesting question.
I can say that this experience has been interesting and exhausting.
There has never been a point, in any of my research where I had interactions like I had here.
I know that the vast majority of you will never meet a parent who has lost their child, never knowing where they are or what happened. That life void has to be the worst experience any parent could have. The most riveting and emotional interviews I have ever done was with one of those parents, Dennis Martins father, Bill.
Looking back in my career, there have been dozens of times where I investigated missing teenagers, young kids and adults, on nearly every occasion the disappearance turned out to be voluntary. A seasoned investigator could become very calloused to another case and allow that series of experiences to push them to generalize. Ah, this is just another missing person case, probably bad parenting, poor relationship, people feeling sorry for themselves, etc, etc. What I learned years ago, you can NEVER generalize, about anything.
Just because you had five experiences where it didn't end the way you thought, that doesn't mean the 6th will turn out the same. If you lose sight of this fact, the relationships and communications you have will be less then honorable and you'll never get to the truth behind the issue.
The background behind the Martin case was pretty straight forward. Dennis disappeared on a rural field in Rocky Mountain National park. What followed is a series of incidents that are truly unreal. When we started to investigate this incident, it appeared that Mr. Martin had been lied to by the investigators inside the National Park Service and by the FBI. It specifically looked as if they were withholding the most valuable information that was gathered in the case.
One of the biggest revenue generators in the Knoxville area is Rocky Mountain National Park. In 2010, (www.nps.gov...) this article states that the park generated 818 million in revenue for the gateway communities, this is HUGE. The number of businesses surrounding the park that are dependent on the park visitors for revenue is large.
If the park admits that a small boy might have been abducted, this could have a major effect on the surrounding communities and park visitations. Ah, but there wasn't just one mysterious disappearance, there have been several. The theory behind the Martin abduction wasn't mine, the retired head tracker for the park service states that he now believes Dennis was abducted.
When I met Mr. Martin at his house, the same house he lived when Dennis disappeared, the man still looked the same as in 1969. He came to the door, I explained who I was and asked for a few minutes of his time. He explained that this disappearance had had a major impact on the life of he and his wife and that he had promised his wife it would no longer be discussed. I explained that I had traveled from California specifically to speak with him and asked for just a few minutes. He closed the door behind him and stepped onto the front porch.
When Mr. Martin and I started to talk, the man had tears in his eyes. The disappearance of his son had destroyed this families life. At the time of their biggest need, they turned to the NPS for assistance and direction on finding Dennis. Mr. Martin told me that the NPS, investigators and the press had lied and withheld information, I explained what I knew, he was surprised. I asked a few deep questions that probably have never been asked.
I explained that I knew the "Key" family had seen something on a hillside in a reasonable time frame after Dennis disappeared and wanted to know if there was something else about this that wasn't released. Mr. Martin stated that the FBI and NPS never wanted this information released to him or the public. They also never wanted the public to know that whatever was seen on that hillside, was carrying something on its shoulder. I believe that the direct impression he wanted to leave was that Dennis could've been on that shoulder.
The NPS and FBI told Mr. Martin that the time frames for this observation didn't work, that was a LIE. Dwight McCarter (the tracker for the park service at the time) and Mr. Martin quickly walked from Spence Field to the point of the "Key" observation in a time frame that would've made the sighting possible.
Imagine at the time of your greatest need, when you were absolutely at your lowest point in life, the one time when you needed the governmental agencies there to assist, find and comfort and they do exactly the opposite. You've just lost your most important possession and now the people you've always looked to as honorable turn out to be something quite different.
The last question I ask any witness before I leave, "Is there something about this incident that isn't known by the public and is something I should understand?" Mr. Martin stated that there was. He asked if I was aware of the number of disappearances in the mountains near the time Dennis disappeared, I named them. He asked if I knew the FBI agent that was on scene in each of those cases, I named him. He asked if I knew what happened to him, I stated I did not. Mr. Martin stated that the agent committed suicide. This was later confirmed. It was apparent that Mr. Martin gave us this information for a specific reason.
Our investigation into the Dennis Martin disappearance uncovered several major facts that the public does not know. The Martin family has never had justice in this case and has never experienced support and honesty from the NPS or the Knoxville Press. Each one of the four major television networks in Knoxville refused to report on any of this information. Do I understand why Mr. Martin refuses to talk to the press, absolutely. The support mechanisms meant to support victim families failed the Martins.
When I walked away from meeting Mr. Martin, I had tears in my eyes. I know I could never feel the totality of his pain, but I felt some small part of this fathers loss. He lost his son and we weren't there to support him. "WE", I mean we as people. If we start to put our compassion, understanding and honesty on the shelf and work towards an agenda, or allow our behavior to be controlled by past experiences causing us to generalize, we have lost a large part of our humanity.
Thank you for the experience on ATS
David Paulides
www.canammissing.com...
BO XIAN note:
Please feel free to post on this thread, now.
Sorry for any errors on my part. The task probably took 25-35 hours. I didn't keep close track.
It would be nice to know how many appreciated it. I don't intend to do it again unless there are a significant number who find it useful.
Blessings,
BoX
.
edit on 28/9/2013 by BO XIAN because: tags
I just caught bits of it before sleep.
I plan to listen to it on Streamlink.
However, I'd like to ask those interested from David's thread . . .
HOW WOULD YOU COMPARE HIS PRESENTATION OF HIMSELF AND HIS 2 MAJOR TOPICS ON THE ATS AMA THREAD
VS
HIS PRESENTATION OF HIMSELF AND HIS 2 MAJOR TOPICS LAST NIGHT ON THE C2C SHOW?
I think there were some significant differences.
Were those differences due primarily or 'only' to ATS's 1.X million viewers
vs
C2C's what . . . 10-11 MILLION listeners?
And, . . . therefore what?
.
I plan to listen to it on Streamlink.
However, I'd like to ask those interested from David's thread . . .
HOW WOULD YOU COMPARE HIS PRESENTATION OF HIMSELF AND HIS 2 MAJOR TOPICS ON THE ATS AMA THREAD
VS
HIS PRESENTATION OF HIMSELF AND HIS 2 MAJOR TOPICS LAST NIGHT ON THE C2C SHOW?
I think there were some significant differences.
Were those differences due primarily or 'only' to ATS's 1.X million viewers
vs
C2C's what . . . 10-11 MILLION listeners?
And, . . . therefore what?
.
edit on 30/9/2013 by BO XIAN because: tags & addition
One of the comments made by Mr Paulides is that he would advise hikers to carry a firearm in the National Forests.
This brings up a couple thoughts. First, would a normal handgun be effective against a paranormal entity? Against a 8-9 ft tall hominid? I don't think so. If someone suggests something due to their research and knowledge and experience which is not likely to be effective, what does that mean?
Second, I'm often puzzled by people who go in search of bigfoot in the woods who don't bother to arm themselves. Of all the shows where people do this, I've never seen them carry firearms. This kind of tells me they are not quite serious.
I would also urge people to take this suggestion carefully. Though it is now legal to carry in some National Parks (as of Feb 22, 2010) you do not want to be shooting someone in a bigfoot costume, you do not want to shoot an endangered species in a misidentification, and it's generally illegal to fire warning shots or shoot into the ground or the air.
Thanks to Bo for doing a summary. For some reason the initial thread was closed.
This brings up a couple thoughts. First, would a normal handgun be effective against a paranormal entity? Against a 8-9 ft tall hominid? I don't think so. If someone suggests something due to their research and knowledge and experience which is not likely to be effective, what does that mean?
Second, I'm often puzzled by people who go in search of bigfoot in the woods who don't bother to arm themselves. Of all the shows where people do this, I've never seen them carry firearms. This kind of tells me they are not quite serious.
I would also urge people to take this suggestion carefully. Though it is now legal to carry in some National Parks (as of Feb 22, 2010) you do not want to be shooting someone in a bigfoot costume, you do not want to shoot an endangered species in a misidentification, and it's generally illegal to fire warning shots or shoot into the ground or the air.
Thanks to Bo for doing a summary. For some reason the initial thread was closed.
reply to post by Maverick7
Thanks for your kind words.
I agree with your observations.
I thought he was MUCH MORE forthcoming on the C2C show . . . it was striking so soon after his ATS stint.
What's your perspective on the difference?
Thanks for your kind words.
I agree with your observations.
I thought he was MUCH MORE forthcoming on the C2C show . . . it was striking so soon after his ATS stint.
What's your perspective on the difference?
reply to post by Maverick7
Thanks for your comment about the summary.
I'd still like to get more feedback on it to know whether it's worth the 25-35 hours it took in terms of doing it for another AMA.
Blessings,
Thanks for your comment about the summary.
I'd still like to get more feedback on it to know whether it's worth the 25-35 hours it took in terms of doing it for another AMA.
Blessings,
reply to post by BO XIAN
I just wanted to respond to commend you on all of the work you did. I would comment otherwise but I did not listen to this broadcast your speaking of. I would say he was pretty vague in the posts - I'm sure he had his reasons so not judging as much as a personal preference for more info. Nice guy for sure but didn't peak my interest enough to go searching for the books. I do love mysteries so maybe one day if see one out there I'll grab a copy. In any case, you did an excellent job with color and making it easy to read through all of these. I think it could open up lots of discussion - if someone listened to this show your speaking of. I'll check back to see what more I can learn about the missing and/or Bigfoot.
I just wanted to respond to commend you on all of the work you did. I would comment otherwise but I did not listen to this broadcast your speaking of. I would say he was pretty vague in the posts - I'm sure he had his reasons so not judging as much as a personal preference for more info. Nice guy for sure but didn't peak my interest enough to go searching for the books. I do love mysteries so maybe one day if see one out there I'll grab a copy. In any case, you did an excellent job with color and making it easy to read through all of these. I think it could open up lots of discussion - if someone listened to this show your speaking of. I'll check back to see what more I can learn about the missing and/or Bigfoot.
reply to post by Dianec
Thanks greatly for your kind words. Much appreciated.
imho David was 80% or so MORE revelatory on C2C than he was on ATS.
I would PREFER to think it was for some reason other than that C2C has 10-11 million listening vs ATS 1.X million viewing.
However, it seems reasonable that the larger audience MAY have been much more motivating.
I don't know if verbal was also easier for him than text/writing in terms of 'pouring forth.'
It just seemed like there was a LOT of dancing around meaty stuff on ATS and on C2C some real candor and elaboration with significant detail.
It was a striking difference in terms of the 15-30 min I listened to the C2C show with him.
I'd still like to get others' views of the differences.
Thanks greatly for your kind words. Much appreciated.
imho David was 80% or so MORE revelatory on C2C than he was on ATS.
I would PREFER to think it was for some reason other than that C2C has 10-11 million listening vs ATS 1.X million viewing.
However, it seems reasonable that the larger audience MAY have been much more motivating.
I don't know if verbal was also easier for him than text/writing in terms of 'pouring forth.'
It just seemed like there was a LOT of dancing around meaty stuff on ATS and on C2C some real candor and elaboration with significant detail.
It was a striking difference in terms of the 15-30 min I listened to the C2C show with him.
I'd still like to get others' views of the differences.
reply to post by BO XIAN
First, thanks for putting all of this together in one place. Didn't realize this thread was here until just now. Read the other thread almost all the way through, so won't have to read through this one though.
Overall, of all of the guests, David came across as the most genuine,mature, and respectful. The way he always said "thank you" was very polite, and refreshing. He was attacked on a number of occasions as well, and he asked why that was happening. He might not have expected it, and perhaps that could be a factor in his not being so forth-coming?
From the way he came across, it doesn't seem likely it was because of audience numbers. But that is just an opinion.
Also, he can either type very fast, or had a secretary doing it for him. Either way, it was impressive how well and quick he responded. If you see some of these other guests respond, they are usually very short, curt, and not very insightful either, and full of errors.
Too bad the broom did not get a chance to bring out his idea on a few of these things to David in his thread, but he didn't think it was quite the right place to do so. So he will take the time to do so here....
The broom has a brother and a friend who all had encounters with supernatural entities while children. And both families were deeply involved in the occult, including having sorcerers and witches in the families, etc.
Anyway after having observed some things first hand, knowing for a certainty that they happen, and while being highly ignorant of almost everything, something did click and we came up with a theory.
So it goes like this...
In the Bible we are told that the reason the angels fell from heaven was because some of them, before the flood, lusted over the daughters of man. And thus they materialized human bodies so that they could enjoy carnal relationships with as many women as they wanted. Later we are told they were cast into darkness and have been reserved in bonds for the coming judgement. These bonds are spiritual of course, and it appears it prevents them from doing what they did previously, that is, materialized in human form. They are still here with us, with their same perversions, but they cannot satisfy them completely, as before.
Very often a common theme of alien abduction is sexual perversion, harassment, etc. And many who become involved with the occult will notice the sexual perversions that are commonplace among the society. And even the wicked spirits with whom they commune will reveal themselves, in time, if they don't right away, with the sexual perversions that still fill their minds incessantly.
It is no mere chance that today's entertainment industry is filled with a spirit of rebellion, sexual perversion, and themes dealing with the occult. But the broom digresses.
So here is the theory. We know that these dark entities have assemblies among each other. These do happen in isolated places, as they are now confined to the earth's vicinity, we know they cannot be carried on off-world.
There are a couple of things that could be taking place. People may be wondering into these places in the remote areas of the wilderness, where these meetings are taking place, or even where these demonic entities have taken up residence, quite by coincidence.
Almost all, if not all alien encounters are also by those who have dabbled into the occult. Is it possible that these people, and perhaps even others, who out of curiosity, or quite by coincidence, stumble across these wicked entities, and thus are taken, abused, raped, etc. perhaps even killed, without anyone else ever knowing?
This was a theory postulated by the three when we were younger. Never really ever mentioned it to anyone. But if David still reads this, perhaps he will see it, and consider the possibilities of it. A question the broom would like to have asked him was this: How many of those who ended up missing were involved in some form -or their family members- of the occult?
First, thanks for putting all of this together in one place. Didn't realize this thread was here until just now. Read the other thread almost all the way through, so won't have to read through this one though.
Overall, of all of the guests, David came across as the most genuine,mature, and respectful. The way he always said "thank you" was very polite, and refreshing. He was attacked on a number of occasions as well, and he asked why that was happening. He might not have expected it, and perhaps that could be a factor in his not being so forth-coming?
From the way he came across, it doesn't seem likely it was because of audience numbers. But that is just an opinion.
Also, he can either type very fast, or had a secretary doing it for him. Either way, it was impressive how well and quick he responded. If you see some of these other guests respond, they are usually very short, curt, and not very insightful either, and full of errors.
Too bad the broom did not get a chance to bring out his idea on a few of these things to David in his thread, but he didn't think it was quite the right place to do so. So he will take the time to do so here....
The broom has a brother and a friend who all had encounters with supernatural entities while children. And both families were deeply involved in the occult, including having sorcerers and witches in the families, etc.
Anyway after having observed some things first hand, knowing for a certainty that they happen, and while being highly ignorant of almost everything, something did click and we came up with a theory.
So it goes like this...
In the Bible we are told that the reason the angels fell from heaven was because some of them, before the flood, lusted over the daughters of man. And thus they materialized human bodies so that they could enjoy carnal relationships with as many women as they wanted. Later we are told they were cast into darkness and have been reserved in bonds for the coming judgement. These bonds are spiritual of course, and it appears it prevents them from doing what they did previously, that is, materialized in human form. They are still here with us, with their same perversions, but they cannot satisfy them completely, as before.
Very often a common theme of alien abduction is sexual perversion, harassment, etc. And many who become involved with the occult will notice the sexual perversions that are commonplace among the society. And even the wicked spirits with whom they commune will reveal themselves, in time, if they don't right away, with the sexual perversions that still fill their minds incessantly.
It is no mere chance that today's entertainment industry is filled with a spirit of rebellion, sexual perversion, and themes dealing with the occult. But the broom digresses.
So here is the theory. We know that these dark entities have assemblies among each other. These do happen in isolated places, as they are now confined to the earth's vicinity, we know they cannot be carried on off-world.
There are a couple of things that could be taking place. People may be wondering into these places in the remote areas of the wilderness, where these meetings are taking place, or even where these demonic entities have taken up residence, quite by coincidence.
Almost all, if not all alien encounters are also by those who have dabbled into the occult. Is it possible that these people, and perhaps even others, who out of curiosity, or quite by coincidence, stumble across these wicked entities, and thus are taken, abused, raped, etc. perhaps even killed, without anyone else ever knowing?
This was a theory postulated by the three when we were younger. Never really ever mentioned it to anyone. But if David still reads this, perhaps he will see it, and consider the possibilities of it. A question the broom would like to have asked him was this: How many of those who ended up missing were involved in some form -or their family members- of the occult?
edit on 2-10-2013 by Broom because: (no reason given)
reply to post by BO XIAN
Since I read that thread and contributing to it I decided to do some more looking. There is a difference - speaking is more motivating and "maybe" he came in here with a bias. He certainly wasn't trying to sell. If he was it would be like be speaks - providing a direction and purpose. He may also have a hard time with written expression. When your speaking you don't have to think through how your going to word it - more time consuming; more planning involved, editing. I got the sense he didn't want to take the time (kept saying it would take too long to type). It was almost as if it was a chore for him to address the questions. Something about a bias or writing IMO. If he were to do a forum again I would recommend providing one good mystery story as an example - like a mission statement with one case that motivates you to keep going (he does this in the very end), which would then give the thread some direction. Then keep it on track. There was no purpose for this thread - no direction that I found. With speaking - it's easy if that's your thing. It is clearly his gift. I'm sure he had some marketing advice too - maybe did here as well - if did it has to be one of the other things. Nice guy. Some were rude in the end but that is to be expected in a forum with so much diversity. Rein that stuff in - have a purpose and clear direction and get people back on track. That would have helped.
I also wanted to comment on his closing statement in his post with ATS.
In reading what you posted at the tail end of David's post it becomes more clear what he is investigating. Why did he not start his thread off like this? Instead I was hearing a lot of "read the comments for my book" or "people line up to see me after conferences." "Bigfoot and missing people but not connected". I tried to only ask about research and respectfully comment on one other thing so never argued (would not do that since I was trying to figure out exactly where he was taking the post - what did he want from the ATS crowd? He makes it seem as if people are insensitive to those whose children have been missing and to whom have also been lied to. Nothing could be further from the truth - from what I read (and I did not read the last day or so of posts).
Was he aware of ATS members' frame of reference or perspective based on the information he provided up until the end? He made it seem as if he was searching for answers and didn't have a clue (all is a mystery)- that was my perspective. That he had discovered that there was indeed a mystery and that is about it. He makes it seem as if those who visit this site are morally flawed in his closing comment.
Perhaps I'm misinterpreting it. And that is not hard to do. I had not read his closing comment until now. I just hope he maybe learns from it - knows his audience - everything from PhD's to teens - not an audience who purchased tickets to see him - most had not read his work. So one would need to provide more background on what is being studied (examples help), in addition to the credentials given.
An audience is easy - they are there to see you; to hear about that particular subject. Maybe a prerequisite for engaging would be to read his work if he were to try something like this in the future - make that abundant,y clear from the beginning. I truly don't think this was about sales since he didn't provide any bait for that.
In the end I would hate to see him generalize this audience as insensitive or undereducated. If some offended him I get that but it seemed as if most were trying to create a flow - ask questions believing they were on the right track only to find there was no answer - where was it going? I never figured it out. Again - nice guy but that thread taught me very little - people go missing and it's mysterious/there is probably a Bigfoot. Already knew all of that. Don't need to read a book to know either. Rather - tell me why your book is so intriguing. That clearly wasn't his objective and that's cool. But what was the point? I sure know I care about people and have looked for the missing on my own personal time. I wanted to learn from him - what did he know that I don't know? What could he tell us? Were people not asking the right questions, was he not into it enough to steer it into a helpful discussion, or was it a bit of both? I'm not sure.
I do hope he can solve his mystery one day. There are a lot of them out there. There are also a lot of people who have never stopped searching. Not all police give up - know from personal experience. They may have to look into it on personal time but there are a lot who care just as David says he cares. Even if he is just saying they are all unexplained in order to provide answers to those hurting, and it does nothing more than to provide closure it's good stuff. That is powerful - helping others to heal. Even if that means coming up with alternative explanations. It gives hope. I know it would do that for me if my child was one of those mysteries.
Since I read that thread and contributing to it I decided to do some more looking. There is a difference - speaking is more motivating and "maybe" he came in here with a bias. He certainly wasn't trying to sell. If he was it would be like be speaks - providing a direction and purpose. He may also have a hard time with written expression. When your speaking you don't have to think through how your going to word it - more time consuming; more planning involved, editing. I got the sense he didn't want to take the time (kept saying it would take too long to type). It was almost as if it was a chore for him to address the questions. Something about a bias or writing IMO. If he were to do a forum again I would recommend providing one good mystery story as an example - like a mission statement with one case that motivates you to keep going (he does this in the very end), which would then give the thread some direction. Then keep it on track. There was no purpose for this thread - no direction that I found. With speaking - it's easy if that's your thing. It is clearly his gift. I'm sure he had some marketing advice too - maybe did here as well - if did it has to be one of the other things. Nice guy. Some were rude in the end but that is to be expected in a forum with so much diversity. Rein that stuff in - have a purpose and clear direction and get people back on track. That would have helped.
I also wanted to comment on his closing statement in his post with ATS.
In reading what you posted at the tail end of David's post it becomes more clear what he is investigating. Why did he not start his thread off like this? Instead I was hearing a lot of "read the comments for my book" or "people line up to see me after conferences." "Bigfoot and missing people but not connected". I tried to only ask about research and respectfully comment on one other thing so never argued (would not do that since I was trying to figure out exactly where he was taking the post - what did he want from the ATS crowd? He makes it seem as if people are insensitive to those whose children have been missing and to whom have also been lied to. Nothing could be further from the truth - from what I read (and I did not read the last day or so of posts).
Was he aware of ATS members' frame of reference or perspective based on the information he provided up until the end? He made it seem as if he was searching for answers and didn't have a clue (all is a mystery)- that was my perspective. That he had discovered that there was indeed a mystery and that is about it. He makes it seem as if those who visit this site are morally flawed in his closing comment.
Perhaps I'm misinterpreting it. And that is not hard to do. I had not read his closing comment until now. I just hope he maybe learns from it - knows his audience - everything from PhD's to teens - not an audience who purchased tickets to see him - most had not read his work. So one would need to provide more background on what is being studied (examples help), in addition to the credentials given.
An audience is easy - they are there to see you; to hear about that particular subject. Maybe a prerequisite for engaging would be to read his work if he were to try something like this in the future - make that abundant,y clear from the beginning. I truly don't think this was about sales since he didn't provide any bait for that.
In the end I would hate to see him generalize this audience as insensitive or undereducated. If some offended him I get that but it seemed as if most were trying to create a flow - ask questions believing they were on the right track only to find there was no answer - where was it going? I never figured it out. Again - nice guy but that thread taught me very little - people go missing and it's mysterious/there is probably a Bigfoot. Already knew all of that. Don't need to read a book to know either. Rather - tell me why your book is so intriguing. That clearly wasn't his objective and that's cool. But what was the point? I sure know I care about people and have looked for the missing on my own personal time. I wanted to learn from him - what did he know that I don't know? What could he tell us? Were people not asking the right questions, was he not into it enough to steer it into a helpful discussion, or was it a bit of both? I'm not sure.
I do hope he can solve his mystery one day. There are a lot of them out there. There are also a lot of people who have never stopped searching. Not all police give up - know from personal experience. They may have to look into it on personal time but there are a lot who care just as David says he cares. Even if he is just saying they are all unexplained in order to provide answers to those hurting, and it does nothing more than to provide closure it's good stuff. That is powerful - helping others to heal. Even if that means coming up with alternative explanations. It gives hope. I know it would do that for me if my child was one of those mysteries.
edit on 2-10-2013 by Dianec because: (no reason given)
reply to post by Broom
I THINK that your observations and conclusions are quite apt.
I don't know if you are familiar with Guy Malone and his scholars and site, or not:
alienresistance.org...
He's researched all the alien stuff exhaustively since his teen abductions. Now he and Joe Jordan have 400+ cases where spiritual warfare in Jesus' Name have stopped & prevented abductions.
He concurs about occult involvement opens a door to such abductions etc.
The scholars on his panels concluded that "demons" are fallen angels who lost their mortal bodies in Noah's flood and now roam around seeking to inhabit bodies for expression etc.
The scholars concluded that the purported/pretend ET's are fallen angels who did not happen to have chosen bodies to copulate with before the flood.
I don't know that we know exhaustively details about all that but I think the outline of Guy's scholars about the basic particulars are probably correct. They make more sense than any others' I've read about.
I think that David Paulides [starting streamlink of his C2C to listen to, now.]
I think David was mysteriously very reluctant to get into much on ATS. I think that was extremely frustrating for most ATSers. I think the contrast between ASK ME ANYTHING paired with 'but don't expect very meaty answers' was almost exasperating to many ATSers.
He seemed to believe that the ATS format or his time to devote to it or something . . . was not suitable for more than short answers of a paragraph or 3 long.
That's a bit mystifying in that C2C with all the commercial breaks doesn't exactly afford a long discourse in reply, either. Yet somehow, David seemed to provide significantly more meaty replies on C2C that I heard 20-30 min of when it first aired.
Anyway--thanks tons for your kind observations. I think you are quite right.
I THINK that your observations and conclusions are quite apt.
I don't know if you are familiar with Guy Malone and his scholars and site, or not:
alienresistance.org...
He's researched all the alien stuff exhaustively since his teen abductions. Now he and Joe Jordan have 400+ cases where spiritual warfare in Jesus' Name have stopped & prevented abductions.
He concurs about occult involvement opens a door to such abductions etc.
The scholars on his panels concluded that "demons" are fallen angels who lost their mortal bodies in Noah's flood and now roam around seeking to inhabit bodies for expression etc.
The scholars concluded that the purported/pretend ET's are fallen angels who did not happen to have chosen bodies to copulate with before the flood.
I don't know that we know exhaustively details about all that but I think the outline of Guy's scholars about the basic particulars are probably correct. They make more sense than any others' I've read about.
I think that David Paulides [starting streamlink of his C2C to listen to, now.]
I think David was mysteriously very reluctant to get into much on ATS. I think that was extremely frustrating for most ATSers. I think the contrast between ASK ME ANYTHING paired with 'but don't expect very meaty answers' was almost exasperating to many ATSers.
He seemed to believe that the ATS format or his time to devote to it or something . . . was not suitable for more than short answers of a paragraph or 3 long.
That's a bit mystifying in that C2C with all the commercial breaks doesn't exactly afford a long discourse in reply, either. Yet somehow, David seemed to provide significantly more meaty replies on C2C that I heard 20-30 min of when it first aired.
Anyway--thanks tons for your kind observations. I think you are quite right.
reply to post by Dianec
I believe that your observations and perspective are quite accurate.
Except that I think he can type quite fast enough. He just seemed to have a VERY STRONG aversion to getting into very much meat on ATS. That was frustrating for most ATSers, imho.
I wonder if Springer would do well to emphasize to each potential guest that ATSers are a tough audience who expect lots of meat and who tend to respond with great frustration when they feel they aren't connecting at a meaty level.
I think David is quite a high class guy . . . it was just mystifying to observe his seeming to dance around on the surface while tenaciously resisting deeper or more extensive comments.
Sometimes the questions and comments he avoided were about as interesting as those he responded to.
It's hard to form reliable conclusions from that but it was interesting. I emailed him twice relative to ATS thread posts without a shred of a response in either format. I was surprised as I assessed his personality as one which would likely have responded--first at ATS and certainly in email. He did seem to misunderstand and ascribe to me a negative comment or tone when the negative post was from someone else RESPONDING to one of my posts. I plan to email him about that and see if he responds to that.
FOLLOWING ARE MY PARAPHRASED NOTES
Now he's talking about seeing orbs and then humanoids on the ground examining a fire pit . . . . 16 miles west of Roseburough [sp] "A vibrational tremor came over the house . . . Dad went out the door, dog ran into the woods . . . MUFON sent out investigators . . . hypnosis . . . polygraph . . . Father was abducted from the river site setting. He's abducted . . . specifics a bit unclear . . . We deal with rural disappearances with a set of criteria . . . lists some of his criteria--which he did NOT DO MUCH OF on ATS.
ON C2C he's going right down the criteria list. He did mention berries' inexplicable connection on ATS.
On C2C he's connected alien critters with such an abduction according to their criteria. IIRC, He REFUSED to make such a connection on ATS.
He mentions the case with paratroopers etc. . . . Bruce's Dad was a specialist in the Army . . . is there a military connection or a religious connection . . . long story . . . never any evidence of him found . . . Feb 27 1976 . . . 24 years later another case 2 miles apart from the earlier one. Tripton Buddy Myers . . . kid with a very rough life. . . . the son of the exotic dancer.
David did relate a fair amount of tantalizing details about that case on ATS.
He disappeared when living with his aunt who really took care of kids and worried about him--had an alarm installed on the doors so she'd know if he opened a door to go outside. Buddy laid down on the floor; watched them go to sleep. She took a 10-15 min nap. About 10 min after she falls asleep, she looks at the floor--Buddy and dog were gone. The buzzer had not gone off. Outside puppy was gone. Chihuahua that was with Buddy in the house, came into the yard--was fed and clean. Did not have the appearance of being out doors.
. . .
David also had shared a fair amount about that case on ATS.
A lot of kids disappear with canines.
2 disappearances 24 years 8 months . . .
Cape Fear river . . . 13 years after Buddy disappeared. Separation by time is important . . . 3 disappearances within 7 years . . . would have raised the ire of local law enforcement.
Don't know of another case like this in such a locality. Nothing found in these cases . . .
The dogs came back clean, healthy and fed.
16 miles away . . . the MUFON case . . . they father passes the polygraph . . . about an abduction.
[I don't know if the MUFON case was not quite releasable when David was on ATS. Maybe the 24 hours made a difference on that score.]
. . . It's hard to be an expert in all those areas . . . [listed possible types of abductors including a lot of crypto creatures] . . . 100 years, 120 years between disappearances in some cases . . . .
George Knapp . . . it's as if something from the sky plucks folks . . .
The majority of the cases we work blow typical statistics of 'normal' disappearance cases out of the water. Books, manuals will tell you that 95% of the time, toddlers will be found within 2.5 miles of where they disappeared.
In our kinds of cases . . . One 75 miles away. One 15 miles away.
boy climbed one mountain; down the other side; climbed another mountain . . . normally kids would take the path of least resistance.
Listed more specifics about cases they DO NOT work. Mentioned wanting to take away the ambiguity for their cases.
Mentions blood etc. if there's mountain lion etc. as he did on ATS.
100's maybe 1000's of people combing the woods etc.
Would be a high risk maneuver to abduct in a National Forest with likely armed law enforcement; tracking canines etc.
One of the things that is a criteria on ours--a canine CAN'T track our cases 99.5% of the time . . . they walk in a circle and lay down. Dog acts afraid. Dog acts uninterested. These tracking dogs live for this stuff--they are excited--not in these cases.
90-95% of the time, the dogs come back. A lot of the times, if the child is found, the dog is found with the child. Many times parents will say that the child and the dogs are inseparable. Many times like that, the dogs will NOT go back. Sometimes they'll take folks back to where the child disappeared but the child is not there.
creeks, water ways help hide tracks . . .
Just across the river from Phily . . . Mom comes out and looks at the girl playing with dog . . . checks again 5 min later--child and dog disappeared. neighbors immediately. Call police quickly . . . they think they see some tracks of a large man, child and dog--6th day . . . area not really developed . . .
A mile has been searched 5-6 times . . . a house is being built . . . a mom and daughter are in their new house looking at it . . . little girl opens up closet door . . . dog jumps out at child . . . child deceased in the closet . . .police assert that the house had been searched 5-6 times . . . workers were in there daily. Autopsy showed child hadn't eaten for 6 days . . . no poop in the closet . . . dog had not been trained where to poop.
Victims taken away and then brought back and dumped.
George Knapp . . . you've presented a lot of evidence . . . National Park service hostile . . . How about local police?
DP: many are more sympathetic. . . . the unique pattern is not going to jump out at a law enforcement with 1-3 cases. May take 10-15 cases to see the pattern that's starkly different.
CONTINUED NEXT POST.
OUT OF CHARACTERS.
I believe that your observations and perspective are quite accurate.
Except that I think he can type quite fast enough. He just seemed to have a VERY STRONG aversion to getting into very much meat on ATS. That was frustrating for most ATSers, imho.
I wonder if Springer would do well to emphasize to each potential guest that ATSers are a tough audience who expect lots of meat and who tend to respond with great frustration when they feel they aren't connecting at a meaty level.
I think David is quite a high class guy . . . it was just mystifying to observe his seeming to dance around on the surface while tenaciously resisting deeper or more extensive comments.
Sometimes the questions and comments he avoided were about as interesting as those he responded to.
It's hard to form reliable conclusions from that but it was interesting. I emailed him twice relative to ATS thread posts without a shred of a response in either format. I was surprised as I assessed his personality as one which would likely have responded--first at ATS and certainly in email. He did seem to misunderstand and ascribe to me a negative comment or tone when the negative post was from someone else RESPONDING to one of my posts. I plan to email him about that and see if he responds to that.
FOLLOWING ARE MY PARAPHRASED NOTES
Now he's talking about seeing orbs and then humanoids on the ground examining a fire pit . . . . 16 miles west of Roseburough [sp] "A vibrational tremor came over the house . . . Dad went out the door, dog ran into the woods . . . MUFON sent out investigators . . . hypnosis . . . polygraph . . . Father was abducted from the river site setting. He's abducted . . . specifics a bit unclear . . . We deal with rural disappearances with a set of criteria . . . lists some of his criteria--which he did NOT DO MUCH OF on ATS.
ON C2C he's going right down the criteria list. He did mention berries' inexplicable connection on ATS.
On C2C he's connected alien critters with such an abduction according to their criteria. IIRC, He REFUSED to make such a connection on ATS.
He mentions the case with paratroopers etc. . . . Bruce's Dad was a specialist in the Army . . . is there a military connection or a religious connection . . . long story . . . never any evidence of him found . . . Feb 27 1976 . . . 24 years later another case 2 miles apart from the earlier one. Tripton Buddy Myers . . . kid with a very rough life. . . . the son of the exotic dancer.
David did relate a fair amount of tantalizing details about that case on ATS.
He disappeared when living with his aunt who really took care of kids and worried about him--had an alarm installed on the doors so she'd know if he opened a door to go outside. Buddy laid down on the floor; watched them go to sleep. She took a 10-15 min nap. About 10 min after she falls asleep, she looks at the floor--Buddy and dog were gone. The buzzer had not gone off. Outside puppy was gone. Chihuahua that was with Buddy in the house, came into the yard--was fed and clean. Did not have the appearance of being out doors.
. . .
David also had shared a fair amount about that case on ATS.
A lot of kids disappear with canines.
2 disappearances 24 years 8 months . . .
Cape Fear river . . . 13 years after Buddy disappeared. Separation by time is important . . . 3 disappearances within 7 years . . . would have raised the ire of local law enforcement.
Don't know of another case like this in such a locality. Nothing found in these cases . . .
The dogs came back clean, healthy and fed.
16 miles away . . . the MUFON case . . . they father passes the polygraph . . . about an abduction.
[I don't know if the MUFON case was not quite releasable when David was on ATS. Maybe the 24 hours made a difference on that score.]
. . . It's hard to be an expert in all those areas . . . [listed possible types of abductors including a lot of crypto creatures] . . . 100 years, 120 years between disappearances in some cases . . . .
George Knapp . . . it's as if something from the sky plucks folks . . .
The majority of the cases we work blow typical statistics of 'normal' disappearance cases out of the water. Books, manuals will tell you that 95% of the time, toddlers will be found within 2.5 miles of where they disappeared.
In our kinds of cases . . . One 75 miles away. One 15 miles away.
boy climbed one mountain; down the other side; climbed another mountain . . . normally kids would take the path of least resistance.
Listed more specifics about cases they DO NOT work. Mentioned wanting to take away the ambiguity for their cases.
Mentions blood etc. if there's mountain lion etc. as he did on ATS.
100's maybe 1000's of people combing the woods etc.
Would be a high risk maneuver to abduct in a National Forest with likely armed law enforcement; tracking canines etc.
One of the things that is a criteria on ours--a canine CAN'T track our cases 99.5% of the time . . . they walk in a circle and lay down. Dog acts afraid. Dog acts uninterested. These tracking dogs live for this stuff--they are excited--not in these cases.
90-95% of the time, the dogs come back. A lot of the times, if the child is found, the dog is found with the child. Many times parents will say that the child and the dogs are inseparable. Many times like that, the dogs will NOT go back. Sometimes they'll take folks back to where the child disappeared but the child is not there.
creeks, water ways help hide tracks . . .
Just across the river from Phily . . . Mom comes out and looks at the girl playing with dog . . . checks again 5 min later--child and dog disappeared. neighbors immediately. Call police quickly . . . they think they see some tracks of a large man, child and dog--6th day . . . area not really developed . . .
A mile has been searched 5-6 times . . . a house is being built . . . a mom and daughter are in their new house looking at it . . . little girl opens up closet door . . . dog jumps out at child . . . child deceased in the closet . . .police assert that the house had been searched 5-6 times . . . workers were in there daily. Autopsy showed child hadn't eaten for 6 days . . . no poop in the closet . . . dog had not been trained where to poop.
Victims taken away and then brought back and dumped.
George Knapp . . . you've presented a lot of evidence . . . National Park service hostile . . . How about local police?
DP: many are more sympathetic. . . . the unique pattern is not going to jump out at a law enforcement with 1-3 cases. May take 10-15 cases to see the pattern that's starkly different.
CONTINUED NEXT POST.
OUT OF CHARACTERS.
edit on 2/10/2013 by BO XIAN because: (tags)
edit on 2/10/2013 by BO XIAN because: tags
reply to post by BO XIAN
Park service specially trained detectives . . . high quality special agents . . . this guy opened up a lot.
I asked him how the Park Service fail to keep track?
. . . lack of integrity . . . which he'd shared on ATS.
There are no resources in the Park Service to deal with such disappearances . . .
He shared a lot of that on ATS.
However, he noted that his Ranger special agent source said they really did not keep track . . . they just rely on local rangers' to tell them what's going on in the areas concerned.
I guess my sense is that David is a LOT more comfortable, somehow, responding verbally.
I don't know what the other factors were. Maybe he was reserving some bang for the buck for C2C that he likely already knew he was scheduled for.
Special agent said he had too little time--to even follow up on major felonies. 8 parks to cover . . .
There's a lot of people with injuries or illnesses vanish . . .
George Knapp . . . like they are culling the herd?
Goes to Drakes Beach . . . 1330 . . . never comes back to her truck. Dog was inside the truck . . . They call her home; no one there . . . she'd taken such a walk about 60 times . . . . 7th Jan . . .
Sylvia L . . . every day took her dog for a walk on Pt Reyes . . . found a leash, with the leash caught on a rock . . . dog on the beach . . . disappearances 17 days apart. . . .
Both their bodies never found . . . one woman disappeared from an area with lots of people typically around. The other in an isolated area.
George Knapp . . . little kids give some bits of info . . .
people were found alive . . . woman went fishing with her brother . . . saw people in the woods hiding behind bushes who wouldn't respond . . . when she approached them, they walked away from her . . .
. . . . grandparents' cottage . . . 48 hours rained hard . . . U.S. Coast guard to search over the woods . . . watery . . . flying over a swamp . . . one place had almost like a small island to it--saw her lying face down . . . right away . . . these searchers were smart . . . they found that her shoes were dry and clean . . . even though the entire area was wet and muddy . . . it was impossible for that child to have wondered in the dense woods . . . searchers had been in that area and she was not there . . . 2 year old . . . when she was questioned . . . probably would call any kind of vehicle a "car" . . . "staying in a house" could mean a lot of things. Nothing else ever done about it.
George Knapp: Is there a common cause of death in the death cases?
DP . . . no overt trauma . . . never read a case of sexual misconduct . . . scratches, bruising . . . commonality . . . among death--perplexing . . . can't or won't say--maybe because they don't understand the cause of death . . . "mad moon disease" . . . shock, death, exposure . . . but exposure not fit the weather . . .
DP: There's new cases in Yosemite all the time. The Park Service is not giving us the cases now. "We're still investigating." Even though they aren't actively doing anything. They just don't want us to get the case because they know we're connecting the dots.
opened up to phone calls . . .
29 year old son disappeared out of Point Reyes . . . car left there with keys in his car . . . his wetsuit was still in the van . . . William Myers . . .
Superstition Mtns East of Phx . . . a majority come back as criminal conduct. The majority of the rest do not fit our criteria. We looked into a lot of cases.
Wasn't there a park ranger that disappeared? Yeah . . .
Caller: RE: Al Bilek: 250,000 in one year children taken for Montauk project . . .
Andrew B...siago . . . DARPA where children were also being teleported . . .
DUMB's underneath National Forests . . .
DP: Those are bad statistics . . . FBI keeps list . . . 75,000 cases one year . . . incl teens running away temporarily.
Number of cases so miniscule--200 cases/year.
George Knapp--long time before underground bases . . . 1800's . . .
DP: At least WE didn't have underground bases.
= = = = =
imho,
He shared some similar details on ATS. Yet, at this point, I'd guesstimate that he was maybe 40-60% MORE disclosing on C2C.
I think a MAJOR difference between ATS and C2C with David . . . on ATS he TENACIOUSLY AVOIDED connecting the disappearances with any hint of involvement with aliens/ET's etc.
He did NOT seem to avoid such a connection--at least not near as much--on C2C.
I think my perspective after listening to the whole 2 hours on C2C . . . Dave shared some of the more mundane nuts and bolts stuff on ATS that he shared on C2C.
He seemed to share a significantly MORE nitty gritty details of more cases on C2C. There were details and nuances shared on C2C that he SEEMED resistant to sharing on ATS. That's still a bit mystifying, to me.
Anyway--thanks for all who respond.
Blessings,
Park service specially trained detectives . . . high quality special agents . . . this guy opened up a lot.
I asked him how the Park Service fail to keep track?
. . . lack of integrity . . . which he'd shared on ATS.
There are no resources in the Park Service to deal with such disappearances . . .
He shared a lot of that on ATS.
However, he noted that his Ranger special agent source said they really did not keep track . . . they just rely on local rangers' to tell them what's going on in the areas concerned.
I guess my sense is that David is a LOT more comfortable, somehow, responding verbally.
I don't know what the other factors were. Maybe he was reserving some bang for the buck for C2C that he likely already knew he was scheduled for.
Special agent said he had too little time--to even follow up on major felonies. 8 parks to cover . . .
There's a lot of people with injuries or illnesses vanish . . .
George Knapp . . . like they are culling the herd?
Goes to Drakes Beach . . . 1330 . . . never comes back to her truck. Dog was inside the truck . . . They call her home; no one there . . . she'd taken such a walk about 60 times . . . . 7th Jan . . .
Sylvia L . . . every day took her dog for a walk on Pt Reyes . . . found a leash, with the leash caught on a rock . . . dog on the beach . . . disappearances 17 days apart. . . .
Both their bodies never found . . . one woman disappeared from an area with lots of people typically around. The other in an isolated area.
George Knapp . . . little kids give some bits of info . . .
people were found alive . . . woman went fishing with her brother . . . saw people in the woods hiding behind bushes who wouldn't respond . . . when she approached them, they walked away from her . . .
. . . . grandparents' cottage . . . 48 hours rained hard . . . U.S. Coast guard to search over the woods . . . watery . . . flying over a swamp . . . one place had almost like a small island to it--saw her lying face down . . . right away . . . these searchers were smart . . . they found that her shoes were dry and clean . . . even though the entire area was wet and muddy . . . it was impossible for that child to have wondered in the dense woods . . . searchers had been in that area and she was not there . . . 2 year old . . . when she was questioned . . . probably would call any kind of vehicle a "car" . . . "staying in a house" could mean a lot of things. Nothing else ever done about it.
George Knapp: Is there a common cause of death in the death cases?
DP . . . no overt trauma . . . never read a case of sexual misconduct . . . scratches, bruising . . . commonality . . . among death--perplexing . . . can't or won't say--maybe because they don't understand the cause of death . . . "mad moon disease" . . . shock, death, exposure . . . but exposure not fit the weather . . .
DP: There's new cases in Yosemite all the time. The Park Service is not giving us the cases now. "We're still investigating." Even though they aren't actively doing anything. They just don't want us to get the case because they know we're connecting the dots.
opened up to phone calls . . .
29 year old son disappeared out of Point Reyes . . . car left there with keys in his car . . . his wetsuit was still in the van . . . William Myers . . .
Superstition Mtns East of Phx . . . a majority come back as criminal conduct. The majority of the rest do not fit our criteria. We looked into a lot of cases.
Wasn't there a park ranger that disappeared? Yeah . . .
Caller: RE: Al Bilek: 250,000 in one year children taken for Montauk project . . .
Andrew B...siago . . . DARPA where children were also being teleported . . .
DUMB's underneath National Forests . . .
DP: Those are bad statistics . . . FBI keeps list . . . 75,000 cases one year . . . incl teens running away temporarily.
Number of cases so miniscule--200 cases/year.
George Knapp--long time before underground bases . . . 1800's . . .
DP: At least WE didn't have underground bases.
= = = = =
imho,
He shared some similar details on ATS. Yet, at this point, I'd guesstimate that he was maybe 40-60% MORE disclosing on C2C.
I think a MAJOR difference between ATS and C2C with David . . . on ATS he TENACIOUSLY AVOIDED connecting the disappearances with any hint of involvement with aliens/ET's etc.
He did NOT seem to avoid such a connection--at least not near as much--on C2C.
I think my perspective after listening to the whole 2 hours on C2C . . . Dave shared some of the more mundane nuts and bolts stuff on ATS that he shared on C2C.
He seemed to share a significantly MORE nitty gritty details of more cases on C2C. There were details and nuances shared on C2C that he SEEMED resistant to sharing on ATS. That's still a bit mystifying, to me.
Anyway--thanks for all who respond.
Blessings,
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