Catholic Hatred. (Impossible Thread, Episode #2)

Well can anyone answer me this.

Is this thread even remotely about the OP anymore. Maybe this is what Charles meant by an impossible thread.

Maybe I should just delete this off my subscribed thread list because I have read the past 5 pages and it seems to have irreversibly gone off track somewhere long before that.

Should I just assume the thread has been co-opted?

reply to post by Grimpachi

Should I just assume the thread has been co-opted?

Charles is taking a break from ATS for a bit, perhaps he'll take it back when he returns next week.

nenothtu

colbe

neno,

Wow, I love that you have a worn out Douay-Rheims Bible! I often share, my mother could speak Latin but I can't
and don't we all wish to read nearest to the words of Our Lord. Hence, the Douay-Rheims Bible. I have a paperback
copy of the Douay-Rheims Bible and check www.drbo.org... online.

I had it - I don't think I do any more, unless it's packed away in a box that I've not opened. I believe, however, that it is gone like so much else. It looked like someone had offered violence to it, torn off the covers and the spine, which I had to re-create. It was an old, old copy, and I got it in the antiquarian bookshop that Orangetom1999 and I were talking about.

I can read Greek, and had a copy of the New Testament in Greek as well. Latin was not close enough to the original to suit me, and the more layers of translation one subjects a book to, the more error and misreading can creep into the translation of translation. That was the purpose I studied Greek for to begin with, although there was also a bit of a rebellious streak. You see, I HAD to have a foreign language to complete my studies, and that was the least useful language offered. The only real use it has is to read the New Testament in the original - there really isn't ANY other practical use for it in the modern world.

I like when you can look at program that has a word search. There are some messages given to two gentleman from God a few years ago. In their messages, all the way through, God speaks, lays out the end time plan and tells you where to look in Scripture for what He is going to explain.

Here is the link to those messages with the word search. I often looked up God's words about the "abomination of
desolation", it is so often discussed. One of the messengers, Cletus, died last year. Verne, received most of
the messages. Two holy men. The messages are entitled ~ God Speaks Will You Listen.

www.scribd.com...

The painting you see at the link, some people have been healed looking at it.

I'm not entirely convinced they are "holy men". Why can one not arrive at the same conclusions simply by studying God's word on his or her own, as they are led by the Holy Spirit? In other words, why do you believe the need for a "messenger" when we already have the message in the Bible and a messenger that lives within us?

The reason I ask is that I'm not a stranger to these modern-day "prophets", and have seen too many of them expose who their father really is in their alleged "messages from God". Those "prophets" have made me leery of all who make that claim, until I can evaluate what they have to say in the light of the Bible. One of the "red flags" = although far from the only one - is an over-use of "thees and thous", reliance on 17th century English in "messages" purported to be for modern people. The more entertaining ones can't even use the old words properly, and only use them to attempt to put a veneer of legitimacy on pronouncements that are anything BUT legitimate.

Usually, however, the big tip off is the content of the alleged messages.

edit on 2014/1/7 by nenothtu because: (no reason given)

neno,

You are blessed to be able to read Greek and Latin.

The reason I say "closest to Our Lord's words" translations are altered especially the modern. Our Lord warns, do not go with them. The reason for an old alteration (big time), there are 30,000 changes made to the KJV Bible, because of the dissent from the faith by Protestants. A big sign, King James was not holy, how could his paid translators be holy?

If you read Genesis 3:15 in the KJV, Our Lord ends up being called "it!"

I can't read Greek or Latin so I must go with the English translation of the first translation. St. Jerome translated the original writings into Latin for the first Bible, THE Latin Vulgate. Latin was the common language of the time in the 4th century.

I keep trying to share, if you do NOT believe the prophets, good luck to you, history shows those who ignored His messengers lost, they did not do well. I believed God speaks through Protestant messengers. Is it you do not believe the messages to Cletus and Verne from God (GOD SPEAKS WILL YOU LISTEN) because they are Catholic messages? Verne was raised Baptist and got into the Occult later on...he did not convert to Catholicism until 2004.

Read GSWYL, not just a few paragraphs. GOD SPEAKS WILL YOU LISTEN, God Himself...tee hee...interprets Scripture all the way through to help you understand the end times.

Your question, I underlined it. Prophecy is important because God makes His plan MORE explicit. He speaks to every generation. He is sharing what is ahead for us in our life time via private revelation. You have a much better understanding
of what is prophesied in Scripture reading the messages from Heaven.



GBY,

colbe

adjensen
reply to post by Grimpachi

 

Should I just assume the thread has been co-opted?

Charles is taking a break from ATS for a bit, perhaps he'll take it back when he returns next week.

Charles is a wonderful and he expresses the faith for all to understand, he is missed.


thanks adjensen,

Grimpachi
Well can anyone answer me this.

Is this thread even remotely about the OP anymore. Maybe this is what Charles meant by an impossible thread.

Maybe I should just delete this off my subscribed thread list because I have read the past 5 pages and it seems to have irreversibly gone off track somewhere long before that.

Should I just assume the thread has been co-opted?

How has it been Grim?

Catholics share the faith, answer questions and disbelievers say no and once in awhile agree. Soon, God is going to make it clear for everyone. We live in a special time. Brother, you already accept God wants us all to believe the same. Alleluia!


love,

colbe

adjensen
reply to post by nenothtu

 

There is probably a reason the term was bestowed "as a nickname", then.

Of course there is. Because people (in both the Catholic Church and outside of it) cannot seem to grasp the difference between the Catholic (big "C") church and the catholic (little "c") church. They are two entirely different things.

Does not change the point.

That's twice now that you've disputed a commonly used term, even by Catholics, because it's not "official".

Of course it "changes the point", and the reason that I refute those who confuse, intentionally or otherwise, applied or casual names, with official names, is because words matter, and when we abuse words in order to make a point that is invalid, it is a disingenuous argument.

In 1053, by all accounts, there was one Christian church, the Catholic Church. In 1055, by your reckoning, there were two Christian churches, the Roman Catholic Church, and the Orthodox Catholic church, but that isn't the case, there was the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Catholic Church (neither of whom is the "catholic church".) As another example, during the Civil War, there were the Confederate States of America and the United States of America, there wasn't the Confederate States of America and the "Northern United States of America".

That's what Colbe and others mean by the Catholic Church being the "remnant church" -- it is what remains after those who disagreed with it, generally over political matters, left. It is not, in my opinion, the "true church", I think that, if it ever existed (and I'm not sure that it matters,) it ended prior to 1054, and it is definitely not the catholic church, which is the body of all believers, but it does have a deeper connection to the Apostolic Age than, say, the Baptist or Lutheran churches do.

I know that that concept has no value for your "me and my Bible" perspective, but for those of us who trust in theology and the teaching of the church, it does, so dishonestly diminishing the historical perspective for the sake of an argument is something that we reject.

edit on 7-1-2014 by adjensen because: (no reason given)

The true Church is Roman Catholicism. Look at the beliefs of the Apostolic Fathers.

Where was Peter? In Rome. God's authority, the first Christians (the Orthodox too before they split), all of them recognized God's chosen authority as coming from Rome. Christ established the Roman Catholic Church whether it was called that at the time. See people, you did not have the rejection of Peter, the FIRST Pope. Yes, there were a couple early heresies. St.John fought the Gnostics. With more people, the faith spread throughout the world so there came multiple heretical groups in later centuries.

adjensen
reply to post by Grimpachi

 

Should I just assume the thread has been co-opted?

Charles is taking a break from ATS for a bit, perhaps he'll take it back when he returns next week.

Oh well that's to bad. I may disagree with Charles on some things however we have had some good conversations and he has got me to reexamine some things. I thought his OP was pretty good and worth discussing it is unfortunate the thread deteriorated.

Well maybe when he gets back he will start a new thread that summarizes everything from this one when it was still about the OP. I will keep a watch if something like that happens.

The thread seems to have turned into a members only catholic for catholic thread. Oh well that's cool you guys have at it.

Peace

reply to post by whitewave

Why do you suppose He didn't? He's a big meanie?

I would guess that's the question at hand. While I don't quite take my opinion of the biblical god to be a big meanie exactly. I do have to question the motives behind questionable actions.(the ones I find questionable)

Have you ever had a traumatic childhood experience that taught you a lesson you'll never forget? One that burned that lesson right into the very fabric of your being? Something that no one could ever talk you into violating your oath to avoid that traumatic action? I think sin is something God wants us to FULLY recognize so we will never, ever choose that again over obedience to Him. We now have a long, long history of being able to look back and say, "no, it's been tried and that doesn't work either". It was always God's intention to put us in a good place (garden of Eden, land of Canaan, etc) and to be our everything in that place. Because He is the Creator and able to do as He pleases, why would we want to depend on anyone else?

Sadly I am one to repeat myself knowing full well it will end badly. Never have figured that one out. I do see your point though but when I look at it that's not the way it comes across for me. I see the many many little laws in the ot that are honestly just idiotic(don't trim the hair and such) into the nt with something a simple as having a lustful mind towards a woman and I fail to the need for punishment for miniscule things. Perhaps I over think it and these things are simply in place for guidance and not so much punishable offenses. Yet it's stressed no sin is greater than another. So my lust for the yoga pants woman at the gym puts the in the same boat as a murderer. Again we run into things that make zero sense for me. I hear it constantly that we should give thanks and pray and have faith that god has a plan yet I look around at the people on out planet and see death and suffering. That's not love to me, that's not a plan other than avoidance. People that have the ability to look past all that have a beautiful outlook, one that I envy in a way. I see beauty and I see pain but I cannot see god as he is described in anyway.

When times are good and things are going our way, we tend to ignore God. We seem to think we've got things well in hand and don't really need God. Suffering brings us right back to seeking our Source.

I had basically everything when I was in my teens. Life was good for me and that was when I closest to god and when I left the church. I was lucky to be able to travel to Honduras, Belize, and Costa Rica on trips with the church to build homes, orphanages and various other projects. My eyes were opened to the comfort I lived my life in comparison to the world. I came to terms with my doubts due to that. These people had nothing, were stout believers and they were dying from stupid things for no reason other than where they lived. I got a good look at what it really mean to be hungry and to have nothing but what you were wearing. It wasn't deserved it was just the way it was and god wasn't doing anything to help. Those trips changed me in a way that wasn't intended. It made me see there is no plan. Unless that plan is to allow the really sick ones to die quickly so they don't suffer to much.

I want to thank you for your replies I have really enjoyed your thoughts. And let me apologize if my post was jumpy and sort of dark it has not been an overly pleasant day or evening for me.

sad_eyed_lady
Colbe,

When any ex-Catholic posts on this thread and shows us their wounds we aren't helping to heal their wounds when we deny they are real, minimize them or in any way defend the actions of the person that hurt them. I do not think you did this directly, but if I was ww I would perceive your response as un-empathetic. Imagine how you would feel if your someone called your Mum a whore. Would you be able to respect that person's authority after they told you you committed an unforgivable sin? I would have been out the door myself.

When someone walks away from the Catholic Church I really want to know what lead them to it. This is crucial.

The best communication happens when we share on the feeling level which she did. In turn, we should let her know we see her wounds and do not discount them. If we don't understand and acknowledge the wounds she has, why in the name of Love would she want to listen to anything we have to say.
Yes, pray for the nun. If she treated one child that way, imagine how she treated others.

I did NOT discount her suffering because of that sister, I asked, did all the sisters treat you horribly? You can't throw away the faith because of the bad treatment of others. There are good sisters, I asked what of them?

I shared the treasure, from my heart, not only as you said, pray for the sister, we can offer our sufferings, large and small to God in prayer. Unite your crosses with Christ's sufferings to help save others and ourselves too. I repeated this to whitewave. It is so important. To stay angry at the sister and never realizing the good that can come from making an offering to God. It is a win win folks, our sufferings and our joys. This is what the term "offer it up" means.

Everyone has suffered in their lives. To leave the faith to preach the way of the heretics is not what Our Lord desires. SEL, this repeated reason about mean sisters? Maybe on the list, it can't be the only reason. Most all fallen away Catholics do not know the faith and it is easier to be Protestant, a disbeliever, atheist, a new ager, etc. You get to decide.

Grimpachi

adjensen
reply to post by Grimpachi

 

Should I just assume the thread has been co-opted?

Charles is taking a break from ATS for a bit, perhaps he'll take it back when he returns next week.

Oh well that's to bad. I may disagree with Charles on some things however we have had some good conversations and he has got me to reexamine some things. I thought his OP was pretty good and worth discussing it is unfortunate the thread deteriorated.

Well maybe when he gets back he will start a new thread that summarizes everything from this one when it was still about the OP. I will keep a watch if something like that happens.

The thread seems to have turned into a members only catholic for catholic thread. Oh well that's cool you guys have at it.

Peace

The subject of the the thread develops Grim, people share why they hate the faith and their personal beliefs. Catholics share
the teachings of the faith to help but it is not easy to change, any of us.

There are quite a few here sharing who are not Catholic.

colbe

neno,

You are blessed to be able to read Greek and Latin.

The reason I say "closest to Our Lord's words" translations are altered especially the modern. Our Lord warns, do not go with them. The reason for an old alteration (big time), there are 30,000 changes made to the KJV Bible, because of the dissent from the faith by Protestants. A big sign, King James was not holy, how could his paid translators be holy?

If you read Genesis 3:15 in the KJV, Our Lord ends up being called "it!"

I can't read Greek or Latin so I must go with the English translation of the first translation. St. Jerome translated the original writings into Latin for the first Bible, THE Latin Vulgate. Latin was the common language of the time in the 4th century.

I keep trying to share, if you do NOT believe the prophets, good luck to you, history shows those who ignored His messengers lost, they did not do well. I believed God speaks through Protestant messengers. Is it you do not believe the messages to Cletus and Verne from God (GOD SPEAKS WILL YOU LISTEN) because they are Catholic messages? Verne was raised Baptist and got into the Occult later on...he did not convert to Catholicism until 2004.

Read GSWYL, not just a few paragraphs. GOD SPEAKS WILL YOU LISTEN, God Himself...tee hee...interprets Scripture all the way through to help you understand the end times.

Your question, I underlined it. Prophecy is important because God makes His plan MORE explicit. He speaks to every generation. He is sharing what is ahead for us in our life time via private revelation. You have a much better understanding
of what is prophesied in Scripture reading the messages from Heaven.



GBY,

colbe

I can only read Greek, not Latin. I didn't bother with Latin, since the original is Greek.

The passage in Genesis you mention (Gen 3:16) calls your lord a "she" instead of an "it" in the Douay-Rheims version. Is your lord a she?

Perhaps I didn't word my question clearly - why do you think the "private revelations" to your chosen "prophets" is superior to the "private revelations" I read my Bible with? Why do you believe I would "have a much better understanding of what is prophesied in scripture" by reading these alleged "messages from Heaven" instead of carrying out a dialog with the Holy Spirit myself if I want something explained?

What it boils down to, I guess, is me wondering why you thing these "messages" are "from Heaven" to begin with? As I mentioned before, I've dealt with a few of these alleged modern-day "prophets" (mostly of the "charismatic" variety), and the messages come from someplace decidedly NOT Heaven.

What makes THEIR "private revelation" any better than MY "private revelation"? Or better than yours, for that matter? I know you must believe theirs is superior to mine for some reason, because you constantly caution against "private revelation" in reading scripture, yet embrace their "private revelation" in preference to scripture for some unfathomable reason.

Why do you not trust the Holy Spirit, and put your faith in men instead?

ETA: I tried, colbe, and I just can't post like this. There is too much jumping back and forth, and searching to find what it is I am responding to. I have to quote what I am responding to where I respond to it, in order to keep the proper flow going.

It's not that the messages are "Catholic" - they aren't, unless they have an imprimatur, unless the Catholic Church endorses them. It's because they run counter to scripture.

I can't imagine caring less than I do about "the end times". I believe God is in control, and what I do or don't know about the end times will change what happens nary a bit. It's not anything for me to worry over - it will be as it will be, and there isn't any changing it, so why worry? I believe those who worry overmuch about "the end times" are not prepared NOW, when they should be, and intend some sort of last minute change of heart when they see the end drawing near. That's no way to live life, in my opinion - we should be as ready as we are going to be NOW, for no one knows when their OWN individual end may come, and it comes every day for someone.

I believe the idea is to be as prepared as you can be ALL the time, and that is why Jesus said the end will come like a thief in the night, and no man knows when it will be ( i.e. "no man knows the hour or the day") but the Father in Heaven. If people know when the end is near, they can live like hell all life long, and try to get to Heaven on a technicality at the end. I don't believe that is going to work out well for them.

nenothtu

colbe

The East followed Rome, the Holy Father until the split. Yes, Jesus established the Roman Catholic Church.
By her authority we know the teachings of Christ.

The term "Holy Father" is sacrilege when applied to any other than God, and most certainly so when applied to a mere fallible man.

The only thing the Roman Catholic Church has authority to teach is the teaching of the Roman catholic Church.

We know the teachings of Christ by Christ's authority.

I do thank you, however, for supporting my point that there is a Roman Catholic Church. See? We CAN work together!

edit on 2014/1/7 by nenothtu because: (no reason given)

Check the Gospel, Our Lord and the Apostles referred to Holy men chosen by God as father. You help me, look, another verse from James to show Martin Luther's FAITH ALONE is not of God.

I wonder if the KJV says the same for James 2:21?

John 8:56
Abraham your father rejoiced that he might see my day: he saw it, and was glad.


James 2:21
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, offering up Isaac his son upon the altar?

nenothtu

colbe

neno,

You are blessed to be able to read Greek and Latin.

The reason I say "closest to Our Lord's words" translations are altered especially the modern. Our Lord warns, do not go with them. The reason for an old alteration (big time), there are 30,000 changes made to the KJV Bible, because of the dissent from the faith by Protestants. A big sign, King James was not holy, how could his paid translators be holy?

If you read Genesis 3:15 in the KJV, Our Lord ends up being called "it!"

I can't read Greek or Latin so I must go with the English translation of the first translation. St. Jerome translated the original writings into Latin for the first Bible, THE Latin Vulgate. Latin was the common language of the time in the 4th century.

I keep trying to share, if you do NOT believe the prophets, good luck to you, history shows those who ignored His messengers lost, they did not do well. I believed God speaks through Protestant messengers. Is it you do not believe the messages to Cletus and Verne from God (GOD SPEAKS WILL YOU LISTEN) because they are Catholic messages? Verne was raised Baptist and got into the Occult later on...he did not convert to Catholicism until 2004.

Read GSWYL, not just a few paragraphs. GOD SPEAKS WILL YOU LISTEN, God Himself...tee hee...interprets Scripture all the way through to help you understand the end times.

Your question, I underlined it. Prophecy is important because God makes His plan MORE explicit. He speaks to every generation. He is sharing what is ahead for us in our life time via private revelation. You have a much better understanding
of what is prophesied in Scripture reading the messages from Heaven.



GBY,

colbe

I can only read Greek, not Latin. I didn't bother with Latin, since the original is Greek.

The passage in Genesis you mention (Gen 3:16) calls your lord a "she" instead of an "it" in the Douay-Rheims version. Is your lord a she?

Perhaps I didn't word my question clearly - why do you think the "private revelations" to your chosen "prophets" is superior to the "private revelations" I read my Bible with? Why do you believe I would "have a much better understanding of what is prophesied in scripture" by reading these alleged "messages from Heaven" instead of carrying out a dialog with the Holy Spirit myself if I want something explained?

What it boils down to, I guess, is me wondering why you thing these "messages" are "from Heaven" to begin with? As I mentioned before, I've dealt with a few of these alleged modern-day "prophets" (mostly of the "charismatic" variety), and the messages come from someplace decidedly NOT Heaven.

What makes THEIR "private revelation" any better than MY "private revelation"? Or better than yours, for that matter? I know you must believe theirs is superior to mine for some reason, because you constantly caution against "private revelation" in reading scripture, yet embrace their "private revelation" in preference to scripture for some unfathomable reason.

Why do you not trust the Holy Spirit, and put your faith in men instead?

ETA: I tried, colbe, and I just can't post like this. There is too much jumping back and forth, and searching to find what it is I am responding to. I have to quote what I am responding to where I respond to it, in order to keep the proper flow going.

It's not that the messages are "Catholic" - they aren't, unless they have an imprimatur, unless the Catholic Church endorses them. It's because they run counter to scripture.

I can't imagine caring less than I do about "the end times". I believe God is in control, and what I do or don't know about the end times will change what happens nary a bit. It's not anything for me to worry over - it will be as it will be, and there isn't any changing it, so why worry? I believe those who worry overmuch about "the end times" are not prepared NOW, when they should be, and intend some sort of last minute change of heart when they see the end drawing near. That's no way to live life, in my opinion - we should be as ready as we are going to be NOW, for no one knows when their OWN individual end may come, and it comes every day for someone.

I believe the idea is to be as prepared as you can be ALL the time, and that is why Jesus said the end will come like a thief in the night, and no man knows when it will be ( i.e. "no man knows the hour or the day") but the Father in Heaven. If people know when the end is near, they can live like hell all life long, and try to get to Heaven on a technicality at the end. I don't believe that is going to work out well for them.

edit on 2014/1/8 by nenothtu because: (no reason given)

Thanks, no offense to anyone, I love you all. Thank you for your kind reply neno.

"Hatred" is such an awful word. Everyone sees though, the Catholic hatred written in the various discussion forums. Every day a new mock the faith thread is started.

The current yet to be approved private revelation (prophecy) cannot be approved by the Church yet. Why? The prophecy revealed in them hasn't taken place yet. We are close though to these prophesied events. The Divine Mercy revelations you would accept because they have been given Church approval. In the 1930s, Our Lord spoke of the "awakening" to St. Faustina. This merciful warning/awakening is coming soon.

We are all put in this time by God. Jesus is saying in prophecy if you have the wisdom to believe it, He is going to have "one belief soon, One Church." After the divine "awakening" if you say no, I can't imagine still everyone's choice. Say yes~!

I shared on the last page, another recent Protestant message from Heaven in which Our Lord speaks of the Eucharist. Why
in the world would He do this? Insane, unless Our Lord is gently getting our non-Catholic Christian brothers and sisters ready to accept the faith. He can't use the word Eucharist because of disbelieve. Remember, okay? Under forums - Voice of Prophecy at....

www.openheaven.com...

Meat for the Season

January 7, 2014

message to Deepak Tadikonda

...“You’re blessed when you feel you’ve lost what is most dear to you. Only then can you be
embraced by the One most dear to you.

“You’re blessed when you’re content with just who you are—no more, no less. That’s the moment
you find yourselves proud owners of everything that can’t be bought.

“You’re blessed when you’ve worked up a good appetite for God. He’s food and drink in the best meal you’ll ever eat. ...

reply to post by drivers1492


"While I don't quite take my opinion of the biblical god to be a big meanie exactly. I do have to question the motives behind questionable actions.(the ones I find questionable)"

I've had that conversation with God many times: "Lord I don't know what's going on in this situation but I trust you". That's a harder prayer to pray than one might think, especially when things are going badly in ones life. Oddly enough, it seems when one hits rock bottom and has no options left to improve the situation except to pray, there's a peace that comes from having the burden of control lifted. We all work so hard to maintain control in our lives, to ensure that nothing untoward happens to us (or our loved ones), to strive for a good outcome always that it's easy to lose sight of God's goals. He didn't put us here to get a better job (although that may happen) or to upgrade our lifestyle (although that may happen) or any of the thousand other distractions that take up our day. Christ's prayer was that we all may be one as He is one with the Father. Helping one another to achieve that goal should be our focus and we're having a hard time doing it even in this thread. God's got his work cut out for him.
**********************************************************************
"Sadly I am one to repeat myself knowing full well it will end badly. Never have figured that one out. "

You're not the only slow learner on the board, brother.
*********************************************************************

"I do see your point though but when I look at it that's not the way it comes across for me. I see the many, many little laws in the ot that are honestly just idiotic(don't trim the hair and such) into the nt with something a simple as having a lustful mind towards a woman and I fail to the need for punishment for miniscule things. Perhaps I over think it and these things are simply in place for guidance and not so much punishable offenses. Yet it's stressed no sin is greater than another. So my lust for the yoga pants woman at the gym puts them in the same boat as a murderer. Again we run into things that make zero sense for me. I hear it constantly that we should give thanks and pray and have faith that god has a plan yet I look around at the people on out planet and see death and suffering. That's not love to me, that's not a plan other than avoidance. People that have the ability to look past all that have a beautiful outlook, one that I envy in a way. I see beauty and I see pain but I cannot see god as he is described in anyway."

All sin, whether it's lust for yoga pants girl at the gym or murder, is all a separation from God. Man weighs sins differently and judges according to what's considered acceptable or not in society but Yahweh is Holy so He gave us a mediator (Christ). God is quick to forgive (quicker than we are) and promises to "forget" our sins; He just wants fellowship with us. Man's treatment of his fellow man is generally atrocious and an offense to God.
Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world. (James 1:27). Beyond that God asks that we love Him and each other. He's made it pretty simple for us but there's that disobedience element in our nature that fouls things up completely. We'll get there eventually; God said so.
*********************************************************************
I had basically everything when I was in my teens. Life was good for me and that was when I closest to god and when I left the church. I was lucky to be able to travel to Honduras, Belize, and Costa Rica on trips with the church to build homes, orphanages and various other projects. My eyes were opened to the comfort I lived my life in comparison to the world. I came to terms with my doubts due to that. These people had nothing, were stout believers and they were dying from stupid things for no reason other than where they lived. I got a good look at what it really mean to be hungry and to have nothing but what you were wearing. It wasn't deserved it was just the way it was and god wasn't doing anything to help. Those trips changed me in a way that wasn't intended. It made me see there is no plan. Unless that plan is to allow the really sick ones to die quickly so they don't suffer to much."

God wasn't doing anything? Sounds to me like He was sending YOU to build homes, orphanages and various other projects. We ARE the body of Christ; we're His hands and feet, His mouth. We fill up the lack of Christ's sufferings.
********************************************************************

"I want to thank you for your replies I have really enjoyed your thoughts. And let me apologize if my post was jumpy and sort of dark it has not been an overly pleasant day or evening for me."

Sorry you're having a bad day. Hopefully you can find some comfort in knowing there are people who do care for you. Thanks for letting me share my experiences and insights with you. I'm certainly no expert and I have to pray every time before I hit the reply button so thanks for that.
"

Opposed to what the world currently thinks, the Church claims there is an objective right and wrong, and the Church knows what it is because God told us in the Bible and through the workings of the Holy Spirit.

This statement is a large part of why I hate the Catholic Church.

God didn't tell you anything.

Men told you that God told them something and then they told you what they told you that he said, and you accepted it without reason on questioning because it was written in a book that has been on the losing end of peer review for centuries.

This is then used by the Catholic Church to condemn:

- Condoms/Birth control (even though it saves lives and helps prevent the spread of STDs)

- The vast majority of sexual positions (even though there's not a single one you could say is correct or more natural or the way "God" intended)

- Homosexuality (even though it negatively affects nobody and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it, and that social ostracizing from this creates social stigmas that cause gay youths to kill themselves and inspires countries like Uganda to enforce the death penalty for homosexuality)

- Other faiths (even though they're, at best, only guilty of being just as wrong as this religion and instilling just as much psychological abuse on their believers)

- Abortion (even though it can save lives in some circumstances)

Amazing how obsessed Catholicism is with SEX.

And then, of course, they collect money from people and spend it on gold plated everything and rich places in the name of their meek and mild savior.... most of such money they collected by force in the past and can't apologize enough for, and certainly aren't paying it back.

So why do people hate the Catholic Church? Other people can try to sugar coat it to not be offensive; I won't. The Catholic Church is absolute garbage and has been a gigantic source of misery for this planet. Why wouldn't people hate the Church? It's a wretched, filthy institution littered with human garbage with huge egos.

reply to post by colbe

Colbe:
chiram,
I appreciate your kind reply, at ATS, even if we differ, we love each other. About Pell...
Cardinal Pell dissents from other Catholic teachings too. When the Cardinal said Adam and Even did not exist, I think this took place during a debate with atheist Richard Dawkins. Dawkins grabbed onto the Cardinal's denial and asked him...see below.
Plus, at the end of this excerpt, you'll see why God established an authority, the Holy Father. He is a sinner like all of us but he does NOT error on faith and morals. A gift from God, so we can know.
There's a video in the linked article.

Hi Colbe! Thank’s for the reply, I was thinking I may have strayed away from the OP a bit as have other posters, regarding ‘Grimpachi’s eagerness to get back on topic. This is my first participation on a Religious thread.

I will take a look at the video you posted on Cardinal Pell and Richard Dawkins to compare what was said (I’m a bit low on bandwidth at the moment).

Regards - Chiram

reply to post by colbe


Ok, colbe - I'll try it a different way, and see how that works. I'll just link to the post I'm replying to. Saves space in the thread, but still involves a hunt.

In the matter of applying "Father" to men, it's true that the word was used in that context, but one has to look to see how it was used, and by whom, to get the full impact.

James 2:21 is substantially the same on both the DRV and the KJV. The key to understanding it is that he said "our Father" - meaning the ancestor of the Hebrews, not in the context of "a holy man" or "holy father". The aspect of holiness is in his adherence to God, rather than in his progeny, and that was the main point of the passage. He was "holy", and he was "the father of a race", but that is two separate issues, not one. He was not "the father of a race" BECAUSE he was "holy", nor was he "holy" BECAUSE he was the "father of a race". The two terms "holy" and "father" are not conflated here, as they are when Catholics speak of the Pope.

I have a fairly good education in Reformation Theology, and am entirely unfamiliar with any concept of "faith alone" being promoted by Luther. As I recall, the term was "Sola Scriptura", "scripture alone", not "faith alone", and was brought into being to condemn the Catholic practice of giving the words of men the same strength as the words of God. "Faith" is another thing entirely to non-Catholics, and it's difficult to reconcile, for them, the notion of Sola Scriptura meaning "faith alone", when that is not what it says or what was preached.

In John 8:56, Jesus says "Your Father" Abraham, not "My Father" Abraham, and that is significant in the context surrounding the statement. It's good to read the entire passage to get to the meaning - and the meaning is NOT "call a guy in Rome 'father' and all will be well".

Also of significance is verse 44, immediately preceding the verse you quote, which says (DRV):

44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and he stood not in the truth; because truth is not in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof. John 8:44 (Douay-Rheims Bible, Challoner Revision)

Do you see here just WHOM he is calling "their Father"? It falls nicely in line, then, with Jesus' prohibition against calling any man on Earth "Father", especially in matters of "holiness".

The passage as a whole states in no uncertain terms that people WILL follow the will of their "Father". If you claim a Roman guy as a spiritual "Father", then you will follow HIS will, a mere man, and ignore the will of God.

We can actually see that in action, right now.

I have a post to make later in the day (probably this evening, since I have to go earn my daily bread right now) bearing more closely on the OP, and why there is animosity towards not only the RCC, but Christianity in general. Rather than just shooting from the lip, I'll consider it through the day and ask for some guidance in the matter in order to get it right. It will probably work as a decent reply to your next post below the one I am responding to here.

For now, I will only say that saying I "will accept" the prophecies you do is not, strictly speaking, correct. I may "accept" the one you mention ("The Divine Mercy Revelations" of Faustina) as a Catholic "prophecy", but that is not the same as saying "I accept" it.

After all, Catholics claim a different "Father" than the One I claim.

P.P.S.: I will get into the concept of "Sola Fide", "Faith Alone" later as well - it's an entirely different application than what you suggest here.

reply to post by TheRegal

Amazing how obsessed Catholicism is with SEX.

That's a common misconception.

The Catholic Church is obsessed with LIFE and the dignity of the human being.

What's wrong with contraception? It prevents life, and in some instances, kills life. What's wrong with abortion? It kills life. What's wrong with sex outside of marriage? It all too often leads to children from broken homes, and encourages contraception and abortion. What's wrong with homosexual acts? They satisfy sexual lust without the opportunity to create life. What's wrong with lust? It turns another human being into an object for selfish gratification.

The remainder of your post is typical hatred, steeped in ignorance, and need not be addressed.

Open question for catholics. What exactly is the pope to you? Is he simply a spokesperson for the rcc or considered in some way more than that? ie...holy or somehow in "tune" with god. I'm aware of his title of vicar but I honestly don't quite understand if its perhaps more than just a spokesman. Does you consider him as having an absolute type authority in some way due to his position?