The big bad Bible

reply to post by Jim Scott

Satan does not believe, he has sure knowledge.

I'll concede to your technicality. Agreed.

reply to post by Tucket

Tucket
On that day when Jesus magically fed 5000 people, its to bad he couldn't also have magically created 5000 indestructible bibles for the peasants as well.

Good one. Too bad, they wouldn't be able to read them even if he did. Of course, he could have magically made them literate, and if that's the case, why didn't Jesus make himself literate so he can write his own bible instead of relying on supposed "eye-witnesses" knowing that there will be many changes and controversy?

reply to post by randyvs

Not what I said at all. Was Hitler born again ? No. Did he have Christ in his heart ? No. None of the people you mentioned did.

Dennis Rader, the BTK Killer, belonged to Christ Lutheran Church in Witchita, Kansas. Rader was known as an extremely dedicated Christian who served as the president of the congregation. Dennis Rader was born again, and did have Christ in his heart.

Your comment that "none of the people" I mentioned were born again or had Christ in their heart is wrong. Just because you don't want him to be a Christian doesn't mean that he isn't. He did everything required of him by the denomination he adhered to. Dennis Rader, the BTK Killer, is chilling in Heaven right now with Jesus Christ.

And my retort is relevent to your reply because you can't possibly have Christ as your master and not despise evil.

This is the biggest load of crock I've read on ATS is a long, long time. (OK, maybe not as big as that thread on Pyramids having the power to sharpen razor blades, but, pretty close.)

Luke 19:27 clearly has Jesus commanding that all those who do not believe He is the son of God should be brought before Him and murdered. It requires special pleading (a logical fallacy) to grant Jesus the power to command murder without consequences, when it would otherwise be considered evil for us to murder.

~ Wandering Scribe

reply to post by the2ofusr1

Sounds fair to a good person and sounds wonderful to a bad person

This right here is the big problem. The Christian religion does not push people to better themselves, or to improve their lives. It gives them a scapegoat, a get-out-of-jail-free card.

Did you just blow up a nursery? Well, become born again, accept Jesus into your heart, and God will ignore that you just killed dozens of innocent children.

Best of all, as long as you continue to accept Jesus in your heart, and admit that you are a flawed human being, God will not be angry if you blow up another nursery, or set a woman on fire, or bind, torture, and kill dozens of people who you do not know.

After all, your works—what you actually do in this life—don't matter. All God cares about at the end of the day is whether or not you have Jesus in your heart. Nothing else matters to Him.

~ Wandering Scribe

Tucket The bible itself was written mostly by William Tyndale under the direct guidance of Martin Luther. If Martin Luther introduced his own theology to the bible, then how authentic can we presume the texts to be?

These people did not "write" the Bible. They translated the Bible from texts which already existed.
If we want to know how accurate their texts are, scholars just go back to the existing Greek and Hebrew manuscipts and compare them.
What else do you think they do when they're preparing new modern translations? They go back to the manuscripts.
If Luther and Tyndale had introduced new material, the fact that they had introduced new material would have been spotted.

reply to post by Wandering Scribe
I don't think you are correct that the bible does not teach a person to better their lives .I know for a fact that I sin less then I did before being saved .I hear testimony from others that have experienced the same .I also hear that some struggle more then others .Its not like we get a get out of jail card but that God will not judge us again because He judged my sins on the cross and laid the punishment for me on His Son . God being all knowing knew before the foundations of the world every sin I would commit and He laid them on Christ and punished him fully for them . Its not like a human type of get out of jail card .The debt was paid completely . I couldn't even tell you all the sins I have committed in my life but God knows each one and some how says He will remember them no more . A hard concept for a human to fathom but with God all things are possible . He is able and will keep His promises ..peace

reply to post by Tucket


Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.

Wow, where to begin with this mess? At the beginning, I guess.

Tucket
Well I think I'm in the right forum.
I just wanted to briefly talk about the theology of Martin Luther. His theology has heavily influenced Christianity since the conception of the King James Bible. The bible itself was written mostly by William Tyndale under the direct guidance of Martin Luther.

The King James Bible came out about 60 years after Luther's death, so he had no part in its construction. In addition, it was a translation, not an original work. How do we know that? Because we have the original texts that it was translated from -- in Greek and Latin, because no one (well, no one with a brain, anyway,) translates from English to English, so the source was not Tyndale's Bible from 1525.

If Martin Luther introduced his own theology to the bible, then how authentic can we presume the texts to be?

We know, for a fact, that Luther didn't "introduce his own theology to the Bible". How? Because we have the Bible of Luther's enemy, the Roman Catholic Church, which is pretty much the same as the Bible of the Protestant church. The Protestants of today generally cut out a number of books from the Old Testament, the Apocrypha, but both Luther's Bible and the 1611 version of the King James Bible had the Apocrypha in them.

So, if the Bible was a product of Luther and his theology, why would a competing theology (Roman Catholicism, and the Eastern Orthodox churches) adopt his Bible? That makes zero sense.

I also wanted to mention the famous conspiracy theory about the Council of Nicea. Naysayers disregard it as garbage

If you are referring to the often made claim that the Council of Nicaea determined which books should go in the Bible, yes, said theories are garbage. How do we know that? Because there are historical documents that pre-date Nicaea which list the books of the Bible, and they're pretty much what we have today, and because we have documents OF the Council of Nicaea, which clearly state what the matter of discussion was -- the heresy of Arianism, not the content of the Bible.

Morons who know nothing of history and historical research (like Dan Brown, of Da Vinci Code fame,) put forth ridiculous, completely unfounded claims, and people who lack the ability of critical thinking, and who desperately want there to be conspiracies, just jump on the bandwagon, because they refuse to spend ten minutes and do their own unbiased research into the subject.

Tucket
Well I think I'm in the right forum.
I just wanted to briefly talk about the theology of Martin Luther. His theology has heavily influenced Christianity since the conception of the King James Bible. The bible itself was written mostly by William Tyndale under the direct guidance of Martin Luther. If Martin Luther introduced his own theology to the bible, then how authentic can we presume the texts to be?

Luther wasn't looking over Tyndale's shoulder making sure his translations were the way Martin wanted them to be.

reply to post by the2ofusr1

Good points but Jesus said He didn't come to save the righteous but the unrighteous

Who were/are the righteous?
Where are they now?

reply to post by windword
The way I understand it is that there are no righteous . I believe it was a form of sarcasm He used to the Pharisees because the Bible says there are none that are righteous no not one . peace

windword
reply to post by the2ofusr1

 

Good points but Jesus said He didn't come to save the righteous but the unrighteous

Who were/are the righteous?
Where are they now?

This comment made by Jesus was really a jab at the Pharisees. It was not intended to suggest their was a works righteous class but the contrary. Jesus was saying that the righteous were not righteous at all.

He said it more clearly when he told them that prostitutes would enter the kingdom before they would.

To round that out he told the sinners that unless their righteousness exceeded that of the Pharisees they wouldn't see life as well. Again not only showing the self righteous Pharisees but the sinners as well that a self saving righteousness could not be found by ether.

reply to post by Logarock

reply to post by the2ofusr1


Thanks for your answers. I kinda already knew how you all would answer. But there are people who were called righteous in the bible. even if Jesus didn't think the Pharisees were among them. The concept of righteousness wasn't introduced by Jesus.

This is the account of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, blameless among the people of his time, and he walked with God. (Gen 6:9)

There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil. (Job 1:1)

Because Joseph her husband was a righteous man and did not want to expose her to public disgrace, he had in mind to divorce her quietly. (Mat 1:19)

Now there was a man in Jerusalem called Simeon, who was righteous and devout. He was waiting for the consolation of Israel, and the Holy Spirit was upon him. (Luke 2:25)

And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. (Mat 23:35)

and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard) (2 Pet 2:7,8)

Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? (James 2:21)

that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. (Mat 5:45)

Anyone who receives a prophet because he is a prophet will receive a prophet's reward, and anyone who receives a righteous man because he is a righteous man will receive a righteous man's reward. (Mat 10:41)

For I tell you the truth, many prophets and righteous men longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it. (Mat 13:17)

Then the righteous will answer him, "Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink?" (Mat 25:37)

reply to post by Wandering Scribe

Your comment that "none of the people" I mentioned were born again or had Christ in their heart is wrong.

Sorry, you are completely wrong and you even know it. You can't serve two masters and the Bible speaks
to all of this, in fine fashion. And you're not going to have you're way in the end period. You think I
don't realise when I'm being lead down a path ? Radar wasn't a BAC at the same time he was out
commiting murders. If you believe that, ? I don't give a crap, believe away. As far as him becoming
born again after words. You know damn well, only God knows what's truly in a mans heart. So that's
between them two alone. Are you jealous that Radar might possibly end up a servent of the LORD and
you won't ? Well, that's between you and him and it's not right for me to judge. You want to Judge
God ? Good luck ! You can have you're measley lil problem. I think you're being ridiculous. So I
guess you think you're God or something, cause you pretend to know what only God can know.

If Radar does find favor with God ? Believe me, you or I won't have a damn thing to say about it any way.
My retort is complete and I feel we may be off topic, so make your final comment if you like. No more
questions please.

The Word of God is a Covenant. Just as Native Americans have passed on their creation stories through vocal tradition so too has the word of God been passed down through Judaism, Christianity, and Islam (other monotheistic religions are available like Zoroastrianism but this is in reference to the 3 big Abrahamic religions)

Corruption has long been the work of men and women seeking to alter that Word of God to suit their needs (*cough* Mormonism? *cough*). With that said, it is hard to discuss how the original messages were corrupted over time without insulting someone. Hence, to be respectful to all religions, please see Why So Many Versions Other versions are available to view freely via e-Sword



^Even this chart is flawed depending who you ask. So many different opinions and it is hard to tell who has the most accurate one.

reply to post by windword


It is simply the difference of thinking your righteous and actually being righteous. Christ called the Pharisees hypocrites but told the people to do what they preach but not as they do. Apparently those obsessed with the righteousness of self and others are more likely the greatest violators.

Trust of others is another manifestation of real righteousness. The Pharisees couldn't be trusted and hung out with the lawyers that sacked widows homes and oppressed the weak. They used the law and their place in it to profit themselves and abuse others.

Paul talked about the law of the spirit vs the sprit of the law. The righteous live by the spirit of truth. He said against good behavior there is no law.

reply to post by windword
I think you have to take into consideration that the gospel was preached to Adam in the garden and those that were considered righteous were those that looked forward to the Lamb of God .Paul brings that out in Romans that it was accounted to Abraham as faith ....peace

reply to post by Logarock


I think what I'm trying to say, with this righteous comment from Jesus, and scripture that points to the existence of righteousness, is that those people of the Old Testament, like Abraham, were considered righteous by God because their deeds, the way they lived their life and their actions of obedience to "God".

Jesus emphasized good works. He taught that we must take care of the down trodden and forgive others before being forgiven ourselves, and being recognized as one of those who "fed and clothed "HIM" when he was cold and hungry.

Without works, faith is dead.

reply to post by windword
Yes James states Without works, faith is dead but just because you have works does not mean you have faith . Lots of people do good works but what can they do to atone for their sins ?

the2ofusr1
reply to post by windword

 

Yes James states Without works, faith is dead but just because you have works does not mean you have faith . Lots of people do good works but what can they do to atone for their sins ?

Forgive others, sell their belongings and donate the proceeds to the needy......

Of course, if one can't do those things, they can just believe (hope) that Jesus forgives them anyway.