Pope Francis: Church's 'obsession' with gays, abortion and contraception means it could 'fall li

1104light
You do know most non-Catholics in the US tend to be ex-Catholics, right?

What, are you kidding? You think that most Protestants were born Catholic?

The American people have had a long history of being anti-Catholic, good job joining up with the current generation.

reply to post by bluebook

"A person once asked me, in a provocative manner, if I approved of homosexuality. I replied with another question: “Tell me: when God looks at a gay person, does he endorse the existence of this person with love, or reject and condemn this person?”

www.independent.co.uk... -of-cards-8827784.html

I expect this to be the new trend of the Pope. Answer questions with questions so you don't have to give any answers and no one is held accountable.

The Pope wasn't joking when he said this...

Perhaps I can say that I am a bit astute, that I can adapt to circumstances, but it is also true that I am a bit naïve…

Did he just contradict himself? Play both sides of the fence and maybe he'll win over the rest of those "naive" people.

What it means is,, as Catholics, who believe that
"Christ has Died, Christ Has Risen, Christ Will Come, Again.",
the ones who agonize over such things are now free,, "no longer worry about such things" for they are now in the Hands of God,, we have run the course.

Well at least this pope doesn't remind me of the emperor from star wars. He is a Jedi not a Sith...we hope.

BayesLike

I'd like to know where any bible says there is a ban on having a Pope. Can you point out a specific passage that is translated more or less the same in all translations so we know we aren't looking at some version's translation popular within a particular sect?

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

The issue of the Pope and Priest is them playing the intercessor for us. When Yeshua hung on that cross and died for you and me, the veil to the Holy of Holies was ripped in two from the bottom up! There is no one between us and God whom we need to turn to for forgiveness of sins besides Yeshua. He left so we would have a very personal guide, the Holy Spirit.

Pastors do an important job, but they do not forgive us, they do not control us, and they sure as heck do not state what the infallible truth is by edict. The Apostles laid down what was required of the non-Jews, and after that is all left to the word as revealed. Yeshua said he did not come to destroy the law as it was instituted in the old covenant written upon stone which we broke, but he came to fulfill it and establish a new covenant of that same law written upon our hearts. Yeshua kept the law, and said "follow me" and that is exactly what I strive to do, but of course fail. I am thankful for forgiveness through Messiah.

reply to post by UnifiedSerenity


"one mediator between God and men" agreed,, what about one mediator between, men,,and the Pope is given that task, between Nations as well as men. We can leave the God stuff too God. lets just start with being men.

BayesLike
Well, it is not my bible per se. But I have read it many times. And I'm still waiting for the quotes to support your claim that the bible denies a Pope.

Try any single verse telling you not to worship men, give men the same authority you give god, etc. They are all in there.

I would imagine too, by the context of this statement above, that you have no clue as to what the "infallibility" of the Pope refers. Could you please enlighten me as to what you believe the infallibility refers, the subjects it covers, and how the infallibility which was referred to by Christ himself does not occur and then I'll respond with a more focused response to help clear up the misconception.

Infallibility is pretty easy to look up. Catholics believe the pope is incapable of failing. That elevates him above not only all other humans but Jesus himself. Please go on. I especially cannot wait to see the bible quotes promoting a Catholic pope. I am sure you are just holding them behind your back.

adjensen

1104light
You do know most non-Catholics in the US tend to be ex-Catholics, right?

What, are you kidding? You think that most Protestants were born Catholic?

The American people have had a long history of being anti-Catholic, good job joining up with the current generation.

edit on 20-9-2013 by adjensen because: (no reason given)

Sorry, I worded it poorly. The people that have left their religion the most are Catholics. Does that help?

EricD

1104light
My bible is pretty explicit about not giving any man the power Catholics give the pope. You might want to read it.

You should hold on to it. I'm sure your Bible is important to you. Thanks for the offer though.

What powers does the Catholic church give the Pope that are unbiblical?

Eric

edit on 19-9-2013 by EricD because: (no reason given)

Infallibility. The power to control thousands of people and dictate new and different rules to them.
Next question?

1104light

BayesLike
Well, it is not my bible per se. But I have read it many times. And I'm still waiting for the quotes to support your claim that the bible denies a Pope.

Try any single verse telling you not to worship men, give men the same authority you give god, etc. They are all in there.

I would imagine too, by the context of this statement above, that you have no clue as to what the "infallibility" of the Pope refers. Could you please enlighten me as to what you believe the infallibility refers, the subjects it covers, and how the infallibility which was referred to by Christ himself does not occur and then I'll respond with a more focused response to help clear up the misconception.

Infallibility is pretty easy to look up. Catholics believe the pope is incapable of failing. That elevates him above not only all other humans but Jesus himself. Please go on. I especially cannot wait to see the bible quotes promoting a Catholic pope. I am sure you are just holding them behind your back.

Gee were not all the APOSTLES men?

reply to post by BobAthome


"give men the same authority" u think that it is not off God,
whom God give Authority too? or of men?

EricD

1104light

Your bible explicitly repeats over and over again not to put the same faith in graven images or man that you would put in god. Explain how the "infallible" Catholic pope does not defy that in every way.

That's not how logic works. You are making the claim, so please show how Catholics put the same faith in the Pope that they put in God.

Thanks,

Eric

I need to back that up to you?
OK, how about I just play dumb and you tell me what the point of having a pope is and what his power is. Then feel free to quote the bible scriptures that call for any such thing. I might be way off, but I guess we have to wait and see what you can come up with.

If the pope says something, every Catholic I know swallows it whole. The bible explicitly forbids giving that kind of power to any man. Have you read it? I mean read it. Not read chunks here and there, but actually read it all the way through. The pope might as well be the antichrist if you actually read the bible but go ahead, educate me. Show me how wrong I am.

BobAthome


Gee were not all the APOSTLES men?

Were they?
And um...what is your point?

reply to post by 1104light


does authority originate with God or Humanity?

reply to post by BayesLike

Well, it is not my bible per se. But I have read it many times. And I'm still waiting for the quotes to support your claim that the bible denies a Pope.

For starters, Jesus told the disciples (as ministers of God) not to take on the titles of Rabbi, Father or Master. They should be referred to as brothers.

Matthew 23:8-10

8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

reply to post by 1104light

OK, how about I just play dumb and you tell me what the point of having a pope is and what his power is.

Ever heard of these guys?


Those are card carrying Baptists, every bit a Baptist as the church up the block in your hometown. Condemn them all you want, but you can't say that they're not Baptists.

Why? Because the Baptists have a Congregationalist Polity, meaning that there is no central doctrine -- theology is whatever the local pastor says it is. Fred Phelps says that the Westboro Baptist doctrine is that homosexuality is evil, so that's what it is.

If jokers like that joined a Catholic parish, they'd be admonished, and if they didn't drop the aberrant behaviour, they'd be excommunicated, because the Roman Catholic Church leaders (including the Pope,) maintain the right to direct the church and to determine what her teaching will be.

Why do we have a Pope? Because in any responsible organization, there has to be a "buck stops here" guy.

Deetermined
reply to post by BayesLike

 

Well, it is not my bible per se. But I have read it many times. And I'm still waiting for the quotes to support your claim that the bible denies a Pope.

For starters, Jesus told the disciples (as ministers of God) not to take on the titles of Rabbi, Father or Master. They should be referred to as brothers.

Given that Paul and John both referred to themselves as "Father" and/or to their followers as their "children", that's obviously not what Christ meant in saying "call no one Father" -- he wasn't banning the use of the word.

reply to post by BobAthome


There is precedence in the bible for not taking our issues to secular courts, let's see Christians do that! It says to take the issue to the church elders. Just how do you take a non-Catholic to your elders? Just how do you even have elders? There is wisdom in the counsel of a few trusted, but with the RCC it is pretty much the parish priest. They won't get involved in our disagreements. So, let's be honest. The church wants to play mediator between us and God. They are not trying to manage a community of Catholics in affairs outside of the church.

reply to post by adjensen


If "the buck stops here" system really worked, it would have spent more time getting rid of pedophile priests instead of covering for them and moving them around instead. At least individual churches can get rid of faulty leadership more easily without giving the entire denomination a black eye.

reply to post by adjensen

Given that Paul and John both referred to themselves as "Father" and/or to their followers as their "children", that's obviously not what Christ meant in saying "call no one Father" -- he wasn't banning the use of the word.

They may have referred to themselves as being like a father, but they never asked anyone to call them that and no one ever did.