My New Roswell Debris Review

reply to post by chunder

Aside from some specific components (easily identifiable as to material used if not purpose) and amount of material as you say method of construction of a Mogul array was identical to a weather balloon.

Apologies for lack of referencing but from memory the earliest descriptions of debris field size / amount of material don't appear to match with that of a Mogul array, indicating a larger than expected spread and mass of material.

-Size of the typical weather balloon targets that crashed in the area in the late 40's:


-Size of Project Mogul trains:


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-Jesse Marcel Sr comments from the television show In Search Of:

What I saw I couldn't believe, there was so much of it. It had scattered over such a vast area.

SOURCE

-Comments from Bob Pratts interview:

"It was strewn over a wide area, I guess maybe of a mile long and a few hundred feet wide."

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Also from memory I believe quite deep gouges in the ground were described and again I'm not sure that can be reconciled with the mass involved in a Mogul array ?

"Deep gouges" were never described by Marcel upon viewing the site. I think it's more of the lore and added to the story later on. He described in the Bob Pratt interview:

One thing I did notice – nothing actually hit the ground bounced on the ground. It was something that must have exploded above ground and fell.

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Then at the least there are the I-beams - and most accounts are quite definitive about the fact they were I or H shaped in cross section. I recall seeing construction detail of a Mogul array and that there were no I or H beams present. Of course this doesn't mean it wasn't a man made object but if attempting to positively identify a Mogul array from the earliest descriptions of what was found it should be possible to get some accurate cross references between description and construction.

Seems to be more misinformation. Marcel never described finding i-beams. Again from the Pratt interview, he states:

Oh yes, the little members, small members, solid members that you could not bend or break. But it didn't look like metal. It looked more like wood.
...
It was a solid member, rectangular members, just like you get a square stick... varied lengths.
...
They were, what I could recall, perhaps 3/8 of an inch by 1/4 inch thick. (biggest) I'd say about 3 or 4 feet, weightless. You couldn't even tell you had it in your hands. Just like you handle balsa wood.

reply to post by Ectoplasm8


To clarify on the I-Beam claims, that was Jess Marcel Jr that made those initial claims. One of the few who actually handled the debris directly from the crash site before the press release. His story never changed with that fact since he was a kid (about 12-14?) back in 1947.

reply to post by Krakatoa

Yes, there have been a couple that have mentioned i-beams. Along with Marcel, Brazel's daughter was another that mentioned only sticks:

Sticks, like kite sticks, were attached to some of the pieces with a whitish tape.

SOURCE

So there hasn't been 100% consistency throughout the story. Both Bessie Brazel and Jesse Marcel Sr also mention the purplish designs that look like "Chinese or Japanese characters". That's turned into alien hieroglyphs by others.

reply to post by Ectoplasm8


Thumbs up for the post, hope to reply to it properly at some point.

In the meantime most descriptions at least agree on the tinfoil like material and that it couldn't be cut or torn and returned to its original shape without creasing or dents.

Obviously standard tinfoil doesn't do that - do you have any views on this, is there some kind of process it could have gone through to cause it to act like this or was it simply down to being rubber backed ?

I too believe there is much more to our universe than us. I also agree that Roswell ain't the smoking gun. Sorry I missed this thread when it was new.

Always good to see members doing their own research and making their own conclusions. Belated S&F.

You might find this fascinating reading:

Keyhoe book link

It was written by Donald Keyhoe who had unprecedented access to the Air Force during the late 40s and early 50s while they were dealing with hundreds of UFO reports, many of which were documented by both air and ground radar.

Although it's not specifically about Roswell, you'll see the way they came to the conclusion to either release or censor their (admittedly limited) research findings on what exactly those things were. It's a great bit of writing made all the more so enlightening because it so much captures the flavor of the time; including their discussions of 'robots that could compute flight parameters'; never in the entire book are computers mentioned. They didn't have them yet... much discussion is had on which planet the intruders could have come from, Mars or Venus or possibly Pluto...? It's all very sweet in an incredibly naive way.

On the main NICAP site, there's links to dozens more free books; I haven't read them all yet but if they're all as good as the Keyhoe books, they're a goldmine for researchers wanting to fill in the historical blanks.

As far as the reported debris field at Roswell; 'hundreds of feet across and 3/4 of a mile long' (if I remember correctly) of exploded foil that was later found to be unbreakable and impervious to drilling, hammers, etc. implies something very large of an unknown metal that exploded very violently, as the David Adair material mentions, it may have been the loss of containment of a fusion reaction (a 'star in a jar' which have since been built by high school students as science projects).

I don't see how even a large balloon accounts for either the massive debris field (that reportedly took many vehicles to haul away), nor for the need for it all to be airlifted to Wright-Patterson. Those balloons, as secret as Mogul might have been, could have been discarded in a simple garbage can with an 'oh well, oops...' reaction to their retrieval.

reply to post by signalfire


I don't know about Roswell, but Keyhoe was among the first of my best loved authors in my 20's and 30's. I agree that he gives a good sense of the mood at the time. I have heard some people trash him for possibly being a disinfo agent or something, but I always thought he sounded sincere. I wish I knew where my old Keyhoe books went to, I guess they disappeared along with all my JFK books when I divorced my first wife... sad. I can still find a lot of this stuff online to read, but I liked having it on my shelf and something about holding a good book in my hands. Sorry for going off topic.

reply to post by wtbengineer


No way he was a disinfo agent. If anything, he was the exact opposite, his writing makes that supremely clear.

I've often wished they'd make a black and white movie out of one of his books that they have over at the NICAP site; they read like 1950s ufo/alien/monster movies. And it would be possible to start the movie with 'every word of this movie is real...'.

His discussions of radar returns showing craft going 18,000 mph alone would make people sit up and take notice, and there's a whole generation that has never heard of the guy.