My New Roswell Debris Review

DISCLAIMER: I do believe there is life outside this Earth, as the universe it much too large for us to be the only life form within this vastness of space and time. I do have an open mind, "but not so open that my brain falls out" so to speak.


I have been investigating the 1947 Roswell incident (as a hobby) for about 20 years now. Reading all I can, gathering as much info, both real and false, and have still not come to a definitive conclusion. However, recently, while reviewing the original published photos (from the Fort Worth Star Telegram Collection). I have noticed that the majority of focus has been upon the letter in Gen. Ramey's hand, and the foil in the picture. Also, many of the photos have been cropped from the original to highlight these areas as well.

So far, I have not seen/read any worthwhile investigation (I could have missed it) into the only piece of CONFIRMED wreckage description, from first-hand source (now former Dr.) Jesse Marcel Jr. (RIP Sir). He, as a boy actually handled the wreckage his father brought home late that fateful night in July of 1947. His lingering and unwavering memory focused upon the i-beam with the odd glyph writing. Combined with the fact that his father claimed that "some" of the wreckage debris photographed were parts of the original, but not all of it.

This thread will focus on this i-beam claims of writing, and will attempt to uncover a bit more information that may not have been brought to light. I do not make any claims of final explanation, I am only providing information for further discussion (civil discussion please).

Many claims on the "Mogul Balloon" theory explain this writing as the holiday themed tape used by the rawwin target manufacturer. And every reconstruction on this side of the story show diagrams having that tape attached to a square shaped cross-section of the support beam (not i-beam shaped).



If this is the case, notice how the tape does not contact the flat surface of the support beam, to even allow a full transfer of the image to take place at all. Jesse Marcel Jr always has claimed an i-beam shape with the writing on the interior of the beam surface.



So, after reviewing the largest (i.e. full frame) photo of the press conference, I concentrated my inspection upon the support beams in the photo.



After zooming into the photo, I noticed in the bottom left corner (which is usually cropped out in many of the depictions) it seemed there was some shadowing on the supports.



Manipulating the brightness and contrast only, reveals what seems to be a series of broken "splotches" along the support beam surface.



Further increasing the contrast and doing "edge detection" on this same area shows an even more clear set of broken "splotches" as well as solid lines along the top and bottom of the support beam. This could be indicating it is shaped as an i-beam with writing on the internal flat surface. This would corroborate with Jesse Marcel Jr's first-hand account (which remained consistent for over 50 years) as well as his father's claim that some of the original was in some of the photos released.



A project Mogul balloon train is very long, very large, and would contain string, lots of string, that held it all together. However, there has never been any report of string being recovered as part of the debris.



The only "string-like" material described has been an unconfirmed reference to a "clear wire" like material that many have equated to what we refer to as glass fiber optics. This material could plausibly be plastic mono-filament fishing line which was invented in 1939.

DuPont made public in 1938 that their company had invented nylon.[1] This new invention was the first synthetic fiber, fabrics that are commonly used in textiles today.[2] In 1939, DuPont began marketing nylon mono-filament fishing lines; however, braided Dacron lines remained the most used and popular fishing line for the next two decades, as early mono-filament line was very stiff or "wiry", and difficult to handle and cast.

Being difficult to cast, and more like wire does fit the description of the material reported in the debris. And, it is plausible this manufacturer used this string and light material in it's construction as well.

So, the evidence to date to me, still points to a terrestrial explanation, based upon first-hand accounts going back as far as the original event (not counting others that have made wild claims after it became a popular and lucrative topic).

So, ATS, I would like your thoughts and am open to CIVIL discussion of the topic at hand.




Links to sources:

1. ufodigest.com...
   
2. www.csicop.org...
   
3. sohp.us...
   
4. www.davidicke.com...
   
5. en.wikipedia.org...
   

reply to post by Krakatoa


Ok, interesting, but I think you meant to say 1947.
Also, I'd agree with you that it was probably terrestrial in origin.

reply to post by wtbengineer


Thanks, typo of "1937" fixed to "1947"....

reply to post by Krakatoa


I never get bored reading material about the 1947 Roswell incident. S&F!

After reviewing the evidence and statements released by the government, SOMETHING happened in that desert in '47. It was an interesting time in American history. The beginning of the Cold War. Additionally, the Army had developed and perfected the concept of Compartmentalization. We can't believe anything the gov't has to say about, as they changed their story multiple times (5, I think??). Two scenarios: 1) An extraterrestrial craft crashed and we'll never have disclosure about it, or 2) An experimental terrestrial craft crashed, having developed from Nazi technology, and we'll never have disclosure about that. Americans would have never approved of Operation Paperclip, or developed technology thanks from the Crauts! No way. The truth may have been more unacceptable at that time in American history/politics than a crashed UFO.

One of my favorite Roswell pieces is the letter the officer is holding during the press conference that supposedly was interpreted. The memo mentions a disc, victims, and a crash.

Only thing you have to do is look at the evidence found as described by Marcel and Brazel and you'll see it's terrestrial. (Beams, foil-like material, 3-4 foot in size) Far too similar in construction and size to our own balloon targets of the time. Believers make this huge leap to it being some exotic design/construction from an alien spacecraft. Construction that just so happens to be the same as ours? "Indestructible" pieces that happen to ... deconstruct into "small fragments", as described by Marcel, and be strewn over a 3/4 mile and 200+ foot wide area? In order to believe it, you have to make it an extraordinary coincidence.

Jesse Marcel Sr said in an interview, as you stated, that the press saw some of the material. That's usually left out on this forum in the repeated quotes from him.

I can't find the source, but I read where the balsa wood beams were coated in glue or epoxy to strengthen them for high altitude flight and suspension time (Mogul). That could explain the flexibility and unbreakable nature of the beams.

reply to post by Krakatoa


After Marcel got on the plane with his box of debris from the crash, a car pulled up alongside the plane. Some packages wrapped in brown paper were handed over and loaded onto the plane, one of these packages was a triangle shape. If you look at the photo you posted you can see what the triangle shape was, if you look on the floor next to the weather balloon you can see the brown paper it was wrapped in. I don't believe it was a balloon that crashed.

There was more than one type of metal but people only talk about the memory metal, I'm not into the metal myself so I will post a link about it for you.

At the link, click on the picture of the book to "look inside" then scroll down to Appendix 3 and 4 and you should find some information about the metal.
amazon

reply to post by Krakatoa


Here's a link to that interpreted letter identified as the Ramey Memo.
It's only a partial pic, but it's telling of a crash, either terrestrial or extraterrestrial. The memo also suggests this wasn't the first recovered craft.

reply to post by Cosmic911



This is the cropped word "Victims" in Photoshop with an emboss filter added. The first letter actually looks like an F not a V. The spacing between the first two letters is consistent with an FI rather than a VI also. The point where the word is, is fairly flat on the page as well.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

To me, the first two lines below read:

AND THE FINDING OF THE (?)DEBRIS(?)(?)WRECK(?) YOU CONNECTED TO THE
..............OF FORT WORTH, TEX.



The obscured line could read:

"(?)WEATHER BALLOON LAUNCH(?) OF FORT WORTH, TEX." Or something similar.

Which would be logical since RAWIN targets(and Mogul) were launched at the Fort Worth Army Air Field at the time.

Placing the word 'victims' directly below the word, as many links do, is far too suggestive.

reply to post by Krakatoa


I found this, I think it's what you're OP was about. Scroll down to the comment posted by David Rudiak at 2:01pm. It's quite a long way down.
kevinrandle.blogspot.
Link

I have a question. Why would the Army first claim they "captured" a (flying disk) and then recant by making public the evidence of their super secret Russian A bomb testing monitoring program?

" We caught a oofo... Psych!--- not, its top secret bomb monitoring equipment, Ha!"

When we pull our heads out of the evidences "whoosis whatsis", that overall story behind the story falls apart.

Why draw attention to secret eavesdropping with a world attention garnering press release about UFOs?

reply to post by intrptr


The first press release saying they had a flying disc was to divert attention away from the other sites where the bodies were. Everyone knew something had crashed and there had been reports of flying discs in the area. I guess they just didn't think it through, they didn't think the news would spread so far and fast.

reply to post by Krakatoa
I agree with your research and what you are looking at in the pictures.
Unfortunately if you can believe Jesse Marcel Sr. the debris you are looking at is not from the crash.
Start at 1:10 of the video and listen to Jesse


Eli Benjamin (Roswell first-hand witness) of the bodies

0jWsJvc1f7I

Jesse Marcel Jr. description of the material; but as you it has always left more questions than answers and points to much of your investigation being a correct assumption. Inconsistencies of the witness testimonies (Jr.& Sr.) muddy the investigation.

A man who says his father was on the cleanup crew.


Are they all lying? I certainly do not know but of the whole bunch I do believe Jesse Sr. and Jr. and Eli that they think they are telling the truth.

reply to post by LEL01

I guess they just didn't think it through, they didn't think the news would spread so far and fast.

Sorry to disagree with you mate, but putting a story in the news is the surest way to spread it. Especially news about a captured flying disk.

You think? This was not a press release from the mayor of Roswell by the way, but the base itself. That base was the secretest base around at the time. They know what a press release can do.

Releasing a story about UFO's is not good cover for keeping them secret.

reply to post by Krakatoa


this as always made me laugh

Many claims on the "Mogul Balloon" theory explain this writing as the holiday themed tape used by the rawwin target manufacturer.

as if NASA or rawwin target manufacturer used holiday tape and not some tape that would not fail .major LOL

intrptr
reply to post by LEL01

 

I guess they just didn't think it through, they didn't think the news would spread so far and fast.

Sorry to disagree with you mate, but putting a story in the news is the surest way to spread it. Especially news about a captured flying disk.

You think? This was not a press release from the mayor of Roswell by the way, but the base itself. That base was the secretest base around at the time. They know what a press release can do.

Releasing a story about UFO's is not good cover for keeping them secret.

But then this is the conundrum - if the secretest base would know what a press release would do how can such a mistake be made ?

It is possible that it was actually the best conceived cover story ever - in that it deflected attention from the (far more important) second crash site (retrieval operation) as well as subsequently making a mockery of it all with the retraction and weather balloon story and killing all attention.

I can't conceive how any recovered material could be mistaken and if in any doubt why not seek verification - not send a rushed press release.

Also you wouldn't counter local rumors by spreading a deliberate lie nationally in a press release.

Unless there was a very good reason to, so something must be missing for it to make sense.

reply to post by intrptr


When I said "I guess" I really was just guessing that they just didn't think it through. I know that Haut got his orders from Blanchard and it was Ramey who came up with the plan. They had to come up with something to divert attention away from the other sites.

Everyone knew about it, they were all talking about the flying disc that had crashed and it was already in the news, Brazel had done an interview on the local radio before the military guys got there.

Why do you think they put out the press release saying they had a flying disc?

reply to post by chunder

But then this is the conundrum - if the secretest base would know what a press release would do how can such a mistake be made ?

Because it wasn't a mistake. He was forced to have another (fake) one and that was the coverup.

It is possible that it was actually the best conceived cover story ever - in that it deflected attention from the (far more important) second crash site (retrieval operation) as well as subsequently making a mockery of it all with the retraction and weather balloon story and killing all attention.

See my earlier comment. A press release about UFO's would be the last thing they would do to "cover" for a UFO. Of course the national wire picked it up. Edit to add: That would be like discovering oil in my yard and telling the world I discovered oil "nearby". That would be stupid (un-intelligent).

I can't conceive how any recovered material could be mistaken and if in any doubt why not seek verification - not send a rushed press release.

Secret testing there was ongoing. Secret testing. Why draw world attention for any reason? As far as verification, those base personnel were at the top of the secret heap and would recognize any US manufactured material. That was their job. They knew what they had was "out of this world". Which lends to why they released it as it was. Look what we found. Back then there had not yet been any such prior experience or official procedure for such an occurrence.

Also you wouldn't counter local rumors by spreading a deliberate lie nationally in a press release.

"Local hicks, desert rats, crazy from sunburn" are not a believable source to many. And every one of them was threatened, locally.

Unless there was a very good reason to, so something must be missing for it to make sense.

Just the evidence. Of which the FBI memo about it said "Bwaah- we didn't get to see "it". Add death bed confessions by most players.

reply to post by LEL01

When I said "I guess" I really was just guessing that they just didn't think it through.

That scenario had never come up before . There were no established protocols for it. The area was rife with reports of UFO's at the time... I think you are right. The base commander did not think it thru. He was in charge, too. He decided to release it.

Why do you think they put out the press release saying they had a flying disc?

Because they had one. And what a find. Wouldn't you put it out there?

I would. Tomorrow. Don't care about ramifications. Bigger than all of us.

reply to post by intrptr


Good answer and I agree with you, there's no doubt in my mind that Roswell was a crashed alien craft. I had misunderstood your original question, it was about 3am here so that's my excuse.

There's no way I would be able to keep a secret like that and I think it's time they told the truth about it, but we know they won't.

Ectoplasm8

To me, the first two lines below read:
AND THE FINDING OF THE (?)DEBRIS(?)(?)WRECK(?) YOU CONNECTED TO THE
..............OF FORT WORTH, TEX.

I prefer:
"...AND THE VIEWING OF THE DECOY YOU CONNECTED TO THE..."