This is for people in their 30's and beyond, It is about Trust and Betrayal.

reply to post by TiM3LoRd


Maybe I'm weird but I appreciate the fact that I got to participate in the Santa myth. At some point in this life we should believe in something magical or mystical... I miss being that innocent. I don't take it as being lied to. As for what happens when you're an adult, you are responsible for your own gullibility. If you haven't learned by now not to take anything at face value, you better learn quick.

reply to post by TiM3LoRd


Well some of the biggest lies when we are growing up come from the propaganda we were fed through the TV set, movies, government, and in the secular socialist class rooms. The lies has only increased, but now with alternate media sources and the internet we can now see far more truth as well than we could before. Not all people can, some are still living in fantasy land and believe garbage media like CNN and MSNBC tell you the truth. Younger people are more suckers to the lies as we were at that age, freshly brainwashed from secular socialist atheist education, without really searching for the truth from alternate sources.

Maybe some of it is spiritual wisdom and some of it just life wisdom that helps us see through the lies. God also does grant certain wisdom to see through lies the world puts out. If you don't believe in God, then you are still a victim willingly because you enjoy your illusion of lack of accountability for your life, or by just out of ignorance of not knowing all the facts and info.

Prophecy says there will be one big lie, on big deception coming that will fool all but only the few elect left on earth.

reply to post by TiM3LoRd


Dang!

Just like Santa Claus. Advanced Merry Christmas everyone! Sad but true. Why do we have to be bombarded with BS when it can be otherwise. How can future frustration be better than present elation?

Kaboose
reply to post by TiM3LoRd

 

Well some of the biggest lies when we are growing up come from the propaganda we were fed through the TV set, movies, government, and in the secular socialist class rooms. The lies has only increased, but now with alternate media sources and the internet we can now see far more truth as well than we could before. Not all people can, some are still living in fantasy land and believe garbage media like CNN and MSNBC tell you the truth. Younger people are more suckers to the lies as we were at that age, freshly brainwashed from secular socialist atheist education, without really searching for the truth from alternate sources.

Maybe some of it is spiritual wisdom and some of it just life wisdom that helps us see through the lies. God also does grant certain wisdom to see through lies the world puts out. If you don't believe in God, then you are still a victim willingly because you enjoy your illusion of lack of accountability for your life, or by just out of ignorance of not knowing all the facts and info.

Prophecy says there will be one big lie, on big deception coming that will fool all but only the few elect left on earth.

edit on 20-9-2013 by Kaboose because: (no reason given)

Brother no offense but religion is the biggest lie there is. It has been the single cause of more death and suffering on the planet bar none. I dont care if people are misinterpreting the word of god or whatever.

But if the god you speak of is watching and allowing these atrocities to occur in its name then that is not a god I want a part of. Sounds more like a demon than a god. And if I was that god even in my imperfections I would help the people suffering.

So you can keep that god I'll find my own thanks.

BigBrotherDarkness
reply to post by TiM3LoRd

 

The experiment did take place just not in the usual context; the same effect took place just not in the video conditions, it was just rewritten naming the object and settings more defined to make a point when it showed up in business literature; never the less, it does show the same behavoir the origional experiment did: wiki.answers.com...

I personally have always felt apart from peers, and basically everyone else I have ever encountered; it's not that I wasn't accepted, I have had many healthy relationships as well as dysfunctional ones. I just never shared the same enthusiasm for what could be termed banal pursuits. Trend chasing was a head scratcher, first day on the school bus in the 4th grade a kid asked me what kind of jeans I had on... I didn't know, looked and said Wrangler why? He said because "Levis are cool." I said "Ok?..." to me they were just pants no different than any other pants in function. Of course many years later; it was determined that I was a very high functioning autistic... whatever that means, still the same thing as pants comment in the 4th grade as far as I was concerned... a good excuse for being different if I needed one I guess? Labels only change perceptions based on what someone thinks of them; the sun doesn't change or cease functioning, if we call it a moon or even spareribs.

But it seems people like to identify with something, be it a labeled genetic variance, mental illness, belief group, lifestyle or whatever. I could have been labeled vegetarian for over a decade, but it wasn't on the count of animals... I just got tired of eating meat. Then after 10 years or so I got tired of lettuce, rice and pasta to the point where I could barely look at it years after resuming meat.

I suppose I feel more of an observer if I were to label myself, I study experience and the human condition, too many creative hobbies and ideas to ever get time for them all, but that's ok all of those pursuits are for me anyway, wealth and status isn't a priority at all, but both are easily attainable with effort.

But personally, I don't really see any difference in all the posters here; whether part of the group at one time, still part of the group, feigning to be part of the group, or wanting to be part of the group... alienation of the world at large or better put a peep behind the veil to see the world as it is seems to have happened, I would term this the initial enlightenment... how we handle that experience of glimpsing the world as it is, seems to be the crux that either joins or divides humanity as that enlightenment grows and deepens, at times dipping into one extreme or another along the way.

How I deal with all of this thing called life; is to maintain balance tempered with tolerance and understanding in any situation I may be in at that moment. I only change and control myself, and have no expectation of others... if I cannot live up to my own expectations for myself, it is even more unreasonable to expect someone else to live up to expectations of them I could impose, so I simply have two relationship based ones, don't lie to me and don't cheat on me... out of respect, they do either of those then respect is non existent, so whats the point of being in a partnership? Otherwise as an adult my partner does whatever they feel like, and I encourage and support the goals they set for themselves. Outside a relationship zero expectation or desire to control anyone, watching myself in that manner is a full time job, and I don't work over time.

Mate single best post in this thread so far.

Sorry to assume you are a guy but some assumptions are unavoidable.

I can very much relate to this on many many levels. I dont have the capacity to go into detail how right you are from your perspective and mine by proxy.

Regardless it seems like you have discovered a way to navigate what we term reality. Balance is the key and like Bruce Lee said be like water. Water has no shape but takes on the shape of the object it is occupying. Labels are the best form of mind control dont conform to them.

TiM3LoRd
There is a reason I stated the 30 and over age group. Not intending to make a generalization just observant that this age group will better understand what I'm talking about, If anybody younger than that can relate that's great too.

Essentially What Im trying to say is that the roles of trust and betrayal play a massive role in shaping our personalities in our later 20's and early 30's.

I'll just brush over the early child hood and early teens.

As kids we are bombarded with false stories and told they are true, we then get a bit older and are either told or discover for ourselves that it was mostly BS. Some call this the end of innocence.

Later in your teens you leave school with the illusion that all that hard work you did in high school will result in the outcomes you were promised. This does not always eventuate and more often than not the students realize all too late they were sold something that was nothing like the finished product.

And it goes on and on from relationships to fast food menu's from politicians to almost all non essential products.

Now I realize this isnt true for everybody and my expectations are to be blamed for most of it, I mean after all perception and reality are hard to separate.

So I ask again are there people out there who feel like we have been sold BS on quite a lot of things we simply take for granted. like bad cell phone reception. Why do we pay a premium for a product we dont receive.

Why do we continue to trust in the face of so much betrayal??

If you are talking about "the system", the only people who really trust in it are the young and the stupid. Since you and I are in neither category, I am unsure how we could answer your last question.

I am just 50. But I have watched the rebirth of the Tribe and the Clan. Close friends and family who band together for the mutual protection and welfare of all.

The 80's coincided with my 20's. We were certain the world would end in a fiery #storm any day. After surviving the Cold War, I think even the most hard-core among us thought that better times lay ahead. oops.

The friends I served with in West Africa and Central America all truly thought it could be over, could be better, and safer.

The scars we all carry are not all physical. There is pain and regret and the inevitable lament of "if I just knew then what I know now".

But none of that matters and we are still on our own. I only hope to protect my son and son-in-law from the misguided adventures I engaged on to make the world "better".

To hell with it all, grab them, keep them close and expect nobody but your own to protect and care for you.

I lost friends and body parts and most of my soul "doing the right thing",

Now I just want my family to make it to the next generation in one piece.

The truth is always the truth although many might percieve things differently. Most people will generally agree or have some sort of concensus when given similiar information on what they believe the truth to be. The problem with this is that the information that we are given to deduce the truth is not always accurate. When information is manipulated this is known as lying. However their are other ways of manipulating the truth such as manipulating the way that people percieve the information given to them and this can be done in many ways such as not suppling all the relevent information, put information in certain contexts and altering the order in which information is given. This practise is still decietful and much harder to detect. The manipulation of religious information is a perfect example of these practises in use as the presentation of the information in books such as the Bible can effects a persons understanding of that information.

reply to post by TiM3LoRd


As a little kid, I learned never to trust anyone, and to this day it has bode me well.

I dont trust Gov, Food sources, Corporations, People, Belief systems, etc..... which has led me to question everything in existence and led me to experience directly that Enlightenment is real and exists. Without that distrust, I would have just gone along with the masses.....

High school was waste of time and felt like prison.....would have been better to learn a trade or focus on subjects that I liked.....

MyHappyDogShiner
Regarding betrayal, really, the only person who can betray you, is you, because you willfully put yourself into that very vulnerable position. Just try really hard to take those "betrayals" and learn from them without letting yourself become embittered by the experience.

That is a really hard lesson to learn, and easy to forget.

Oh no my friend, the real betrayals happen when they shouldn't have. Getting scaled when your ignorant and to trusting is one thing but something different.

For example there is believing the used car salesman when he tells you "everything fine with this car" and then there is being sold for 30 pieces of silver.

reply to post by TiM3LoRd


I guess the lies from the likes of governments is for the purpose of control and for the sake of commercialism, capitalism and the illusion of democracy.

We are sold an illusion from birth in our nations, a sort of ''buy into the system and be fully controlled, the golden rule there is 'do not question' ie. have no personality, individuality or soul, essentially 'blindly follow the party line'''' or ''take the ethical path but if you question the system don't expect an easy ride from the party line chain of command''

The best way we work the system is being aware, teach others the things we have learned, let the truth be known, educate, inform of the pitfalls, remain wise and teach true, valid, appropriate wisdom.

Then things will happen naturally for a better society, don't stand for bullying and lies, question and tackle all types of bullying on every level.

There have been plenty of ancient civilizations toppled, some lasted longer than the current fake democracies.

Now they are facing a choice, evolving or failing, if they evolve it has to be in a non corrupt way from core values right through the chain to the daily effects on lives.

It is possible for people to live fairer, happier, more ethical lives based on things other than money and the means of attaining it.

Let the good way happen.

reply to post by TiM3LoRd


I believe that simply put - the world changed very quickly for our generation [ 40s]. What my parents and grand parents told me became nul and void very quickly.

The world of the 80s and 90s is nothing like the 2013s - things have changed so quickly and jobs have gone south - like aspiration and honour.

We live in a weird world where everything is not really as it should be...

MyHappyDogShiner
I remember when I was 18 years old, and thought I knew everything I needed to know. Now I realize that knowing everything is actually a learning disability, because one who believes themselves to know everything just won't listen to anyone who actually knows more than they do.

The more I learn, the less I know.

That is highly ridiculous, you are claiming that you know that you know less the more you learn.

This is highly indicative of the fact that you have the exact learning style that you always had, trust me it does not have to be that way for all of us.

And please spare us that things are more complicated the more you learn , some of us realize that ALL is possible, not the reverse like you, quoting Bible teachers...just another myth.

reply to post by TiM3LoRd


Thats kind of you to say, quite a few thin skinned individuals may take offence by calling it the single best post thus far. But I'm sure you meant it as closer to your own point of view not an insult.

Expectation, is a trap. We set it for others and others set it for us, to get caught up in. Before we know it we depend on them to say do laundry or wash the dishes, after awhile we expect those things from them... and get this get angry at them for not doing something for us that we are fully capable of doing simpy out of expectation.

The trap of expectations holds no mystery, I can't claim ignorance of it... sure if I was a manipulative person I could use many things such as understanding expectation to control someone else. But expectation is deeply tied to control, as adults we have no right to try and control another adult. We are not their parent, nor are they our parent. Yet many love trying to jump into a role, of parent and child and others. Simply out of a learned behavior that taking whatever role gets them what they want.

This is a special kind of sociopathic madness, that most people are not even aware of... intentionally playing on anothers sympathies to gain control or avoid personal responsibilities. This is too hard, I don't wanna... adults usually don't make it so apparent in those words children do. Adults learn to manipulate, because those words didn't let them off the hook when they said them as a child; so they've learned more sophisticated methods. That one co-worker that can't ever seem to get the hang of something for some reason... so another ends up doing the work for them. Is the co-worker really that damn stupid after being shown 700 times or a master of manipulation controlling a rube to do the work for them 700 times?

As humans we have a mind blindness; we commonly assume everyone thinks the same way we do, and this frames our world. There are many many different types of thinking, the type that you use exclusively is the one you take others use exclusively... and this can cause trouble. It is a subconscious idealism we hold that we are not even aware of and one that gets us into a lot of trouble, because our main mode of thinking can be easily manipulated by another type of thinking.

Here's a few types of reasoning; we use many but one is typically the main seat we use to reason... as you can see there are many seats that one can be using as a main seat, and this main seat of reasoning has formed who they are. Many people at a dead end get the advice to change their location, job or partner, when it's best to change their seat of thinking if they don;t want the new location, job or partner to be exactly the same as the previous. That's why we seek advice so damn much, looking for a seat of reasoning that resonates with our own mode of thinking so we have an excuse to do what we wanna do about it already, other things that don't resonate bring a point of view not concidered it is usually discarded, but rarely does anyone wonder what seat of reasoning that person sits in that led them to such a point of view so different than their own.

Some seats of reasoning:

Abduction: the process of creating explanatory hypotheses.
Analogical Reasoning: relating things to novel other situations.
Cause-and-Effect Reasoning: showing causes and resulting effect.
Cause-to-Effects Reasoning: starting from the cause and going forward.
Effects-to-Cause Reasoning: starting from the effect and working backward.
Comparative Reasoning: comparing one thing against another.
Conditional Reasoning: using if...then...
Criteria Reasoning: comparing against established criteria.
Decompositional Reasoning: understand the parts to understand the whole.
Deductive Reasoning: starting from the general rule and moving to specifics.
Exemplar Reasoning: using an example.
Inductive Reasoning: starting from specifics and deriving a general rule.
Modal Logic: arguing about necessity and possibility.
Pros-vs-cons Reasoning: using arguments both for and against a case.
Residue Reasoning: Removing first what is not logical.
Set-based Reasoning: based on categories and membership relationships.
Systemic Reasoning: the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.
Syllogistic Reasoning: drawing conclusions from premises.
Traditional Logic: assuming premises are correct.

BigBrotherDarkness
reply to post by TiM3LoRd

 

Thats kind of you to say, quite a few thin skinned individuals may take offence by calling it the single best post thus far. But I'm sure you meant it as closer to your own point of view not an insult.

Expectation, is a trap. We set it for others and others set it for us, to get caught up in. Before we know it we depend on them to say do laundry or wash the dishes, after awhile we expect those things from them... and get this get angry at them for not doing something for us that we are fully capable of doing simpy out of expectation.

The trap of expectations holds no mystery, I can't claim ignorance of it... sure if I was a manipulative person I could use many things such as understanding expectation to control someone else. But expectation is deeply tied to control, as adults we have no right to try and control another adult. We are not their parent, nor are they our parent. Yet many love trying to jump into a role, of parent and child and others. Simply out of a learned behavior that taking whatever role gets them what they want.

This is a special kind of sociopathic madness, that most people are not even aware of... intentionally playing on anothers sympathies to gain control or avoid personal responsibilities. This is too hard, I don't wanna... adults usually don't make it so apparent in those words children do. Adults learn to manipulate, because those words didn't let them off the hook when they said them as a child; so they've learned more sophisticated methods. That one co-worker that can't ever seem to get the hang of something for some reason... so another ends up doing the work for them. Is the co-worker really that damn stupid after being shown 700 times or a master of manipulation controlling a rube to do the work for them 700 times?

As humans we have a mind blindness; we commonly assume everyone thinks the same way we do, and this frames our world. There are many many different types of thinking, the type that you use exclusively is the one you take others use exclusively... and this can cause trouble. It is a subconscious idealism we hold that we are not even aware of and one that gets us into a lot of trouble, because our main mode of thinking can be easily manipulated by another type of thinking.

Here's a few types of reasoning; we use many but one is typically the main seat we use to reason... as you can see there are many seats that one can be using as a main seat, and this main seat of reasoning has formed who they are. Many people at a dead end get the advice to change their location, job or partner, when it's best to change their seat of thinking if they don;t want the new location, job or partner to be exactly the same as the previous. That's why we seek advice so damn much, looking for a seat of reasoning that resonates with our own mode of thinking so we have an excuse to do what we wanna do about it already, other things that don't resonate bring a point of view not concidered it is usually discarded, but rarely does anyone wonder what seat of reasoning that person sits in that led them to such a point of view so different than their own.

Some seats of reasoning:

Abduction: the process of creating explanatory hypotheses.
Analogical Reasoning: relating things to novel other situations.
Cause-and-Effect Reasoning: showing causes and resulting effect.
Cause-to-Effects Reasoning: starting from the cause and going forward.
Effects-to-Cause Reasoning: starting from the effect and working backward.
Comparative Reasoning: comparing one thing against another.
Conditional Reasoning: using if...then...
Criteria Reasoning: comparing against established criteria.
Decompositional Reasoning: understand the parts to understand the whole.
Deductive Reasoning: starting from the general rule and moving to specifics.
Exemplar Reasoning: using an example.
Inductive Reasoning: starting from specifics and deriving a general rule.
Modal Logic: arguing about necessity and possibility.
Pros-vs-cons Reasoning: using arguments both for and against a case.
Residue Reasoning: Removing first what is not logical.
Set-based Reasoning: based on categories and membership relationships.
Systemic Reasoning: the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.
Syllogistic Reasoning: drawing conclusions from premises.
Traditional Logic: assuming premises are correct.

Indeed I meant no disrespect to any of the other posters, but as you surmised and correctly so what you stated resonated with me and my line of reasoning so it was only natural that I felt compelled to share that.

I hear you loud and clear and believe me when I say I know the temptations you speak of.

There takes a great deal of control and self discipline to let power go and to come to ones own sense of meaning and purpose.

Thank you to yourself and everybody that had added their opinion to this thread, even if I havent addressed you all individually I never meant any disrespect. Sometimes I'm like a mad scientist on a single minded mission to find my own truth and sometimes forgets to smell the roses so to speak.

When I was growing up in the 70’s, adults felt compelled to lie to children. They also tried to cover up their own ignorance. As a result, I lived in a magical world where adults were lesser beings. I had to come up with the truth on my own, so I came to spectacular speculations and conclusions.

We were on our own. We spent little time with adults. We spent nights in the wilderness. We were pyromaniacs. We talked girls out of their clothes. However, our ignorance made us innocent. We also lived in this strange world the adults created for their entertainment. I think of my childhood as a large shopping mall. Everything was placed to confuse, delight, and remove all thoughts of reality.

I tried to break free and learn more truths, but I was always behind reality. The allure of surreality held me in back. With the advent of the internet, I was able to confront and confirm more reality. However, I do have a favorites folder named “Retro”. It’s probably safer than drugs.

I try to show my daughter what’s real and true and how to be real and true. I let her know when I am wrong or mistaken. She seems to appreciate this. She has loads of friends, and her teachers love her. I've seen her teachers fawn over her. I know that I’m partly responsible, because I do my best to keep her in reality. That used to be quite a chore when she’d come back from her grandmother’s.

I see kids today who are leading their parents around like pets. I don’t remember it being that way when I was young. I hope they get some knowledge with their power.

InverseLookingGlass
Trust is your brain shutting off.

That is brilliant. I Googled the phrase to find the t-shirt. I didn't find the phrase. What's a button gonna set me back?

I did, however, find some confirmation.
Hearing prayer shuts off believers' brain activity

The betrayal is the illusion of wealth, NOONE, for any reason deserves a mansion and yacht while others starve. I would rather the rich guy be slaughtered like a stuffed pig first and save more people than his greed can kill.
WTF? lol

It is because of PROFIT.. scientifically and mathematically impossible for everyone to take out more than they put in. (money). So, how can "investing" work this way without someone having a shortfall?

Say for example that the "rich" invest in 5 areas. and they have 10% profit on EACH area. this is what gives them their lifestyle.
1. Food
2. Fuels / Power (gas, propane, electricity, coal, etc.)
3. Shelter (houses, apts, etc.)
4. Clothes
5. Entertainment (movies, books, music)

This would be a gross of 50%'s combined.. Now if fuel or food was free, would life be ANY better for people?

NO!... the other 4 categories would increase profit from 10% in each category to 12.5%.. or else THEIR lifestyle suffers..

HECK, you could have free food, fuels, shelter, and entertainment... The RICH would then shift all profit to the one entity left to 50%,, in order to re-coop losses.

This analogy should explain my point., this IS the betrayal.. No matter what is "free" life will NOT get better as long as PROFIT is involved..

We could have free everything except one item, that item would then be marked up to give the RICH their PROFIT... this is why MONEY works so well. people don't look at the TIME... every penny that goes to someone ELSE in PROFIT is like them STEALING part of your life for their OWN..!

devildogUSMC
reply to post by TiM3LoRd

 

Yes, but which child has a happier childhood? Don't you wish you could live in fantasy world for a while? No bills, no real problems, everything feels new and exiting and wonderful.

I'm a firm believer that this fantasy world and the lies and liars that it took to make it stunt our societal evolution. It slows down progress and encourages irresponsibility. I'm only speaking from experience.

Also, I'm not a fan of liars, cheats, or thieves. Well, unless we're talking Dungeons and Dragons

reply to post by TiM3LoRd


At the time of writing this I am 39...

I think your generalizing way too much and making assumptions based upon your own and local experiences.

I think it is fair to say however that at a normal pace of life in England at least, once you reach say 35 you should have experienced most forms of both love and betrayal.

But...

There are way too many variables involved to say this is true of everyone globally. A good example of this would be Japan. Having spent some time over there, the thing that struck me is how imature the people seem to be as compaired to life in the west.

I don't mean that to be a negative comment, If you would allow me to explain.

In Japan the pressure on Children to Achieve is immense. Other than their own alphabet Katakana of 48 characters there is also the Kanji which consists of 21'000 characters although there is only around 10'000 used characters, so learning takes up an awful lot of the child's time, which in turn means the child has less time to actually be a child.

This coupled with the fact that you tend to live at home with your family until late 20's + means that when a Japanese person leaves school they often revert to being quite childish.

This means that in Japan the life experience that would lead to wisdom starts much later than someone from say England.

I'm not saying this way is right or wrong... just different.

In stark comparison you may have a 12 year old boy living in Africa whom has had to learn quickly to survive and fend for themselves, these people maybe wiser to love and betrayal then someone in their 30's in the developed world.

This is also true of the pace of life... If you live in a large city you tend to be more experienced than say someone whom lives in a small town or the country.

Life is dynamic.

Peace,

Korg.