Hunters trade shots over deer breeding, killing methods

I am an avid hunter and also have a breeding program which I participate in on 25 thousand acres. While I don't agree with caging the deer and shooting them in a small area I do agree with proper nutrition and growing big bucks. I have seen a lot of posts where people are saying these are "freakish" deer because they have large antlers. A deer with a large rack is nothing abnormal. Matter of fact it is completely normal when deer have proper nutrition and are allowed to age to maturity. The reason you don't see many deer with large antlers are that most hunting is done on public land and deer are usually taken before they mature. That on top of decreasing natural nutrition makes for smaller deer taken (rack wise) taken on average.

On our ranch we take no animal that appears to be less than 5 years old. There are many things that are used to judge deer age and all bucks are aged via jaw bone after harvest. We feed over approx 100k lbs of recleaned corn and about 40k of protein. Our deer are feed all summer long via 60 protein feeders and feed all winter ling via over 100 corn feeders. All out animals are FREE RANGE and are free to go wherever they like. All boarder property fence is low fence (no 10ft game fence) to allow the animals natural migration and avoidence routes. Basically we hunt all natural except for feeding stations and our animals have that same fighting chance as any wild free roaming animal.

With that all said we generally produce deer in excess of 150B&C score with around 230 B&C being the bigest buck ever taken since I been there.

To give you an idea of what natural deer look like with proper diet and allowed to age I attached a link to what is known as one of the biggest bucks on record that was taken almost 100 years ago long before any breeding or nutrition programs were ever used. Even with all of today's technology and captive breeding programs a deer like the "Brady Buck" has seldom if ever been reproduced.

The Brady Buck

Somebody should ask this woman when was the last time she shot the cow that was used for her steak. This isn't hunting it's just killing and it's disgusting.

reply to post by buster2010


What woman is this you speak of?

shells4u

Somebody should ask this woman when was the last time she shot the cow that was used for her steak. This isn't hunting it's just killing and it's disgusting.

reply to post by buster2010

 

What woman is this you speak of?

Laura Caroll, who, along with her husband, owns the deer breeding company. "They [critics] are saying that one way of killing them is different from another way of killing them," she said. "But the end result is that they kill them." "It’s no different than raising cattle that’s going to go on people’s tables," Caroll said.

TDawgRex

shells4u
reply to post by TDawgRex

 

ALL HUNTING...Unless you can prove that you dont have enough money to put food on your table....Oh wait...get a EBT card for gods sake....

edit on 9/16/13 by shells4u because: (no reason given)

Shells, that statement to me equates to

all gardening.

Fishing, etc. Food doesn't just magically appear in the grocery store.

Living in a rural community, hunting is often the way of life. And it does put food on the table freeing up your finances for other things.

I have never agreed to hunting preserves though. Hunting should be a challenge with no guaranteed outcome. I have plenty of time in the woods hunting and came home empty handed. Still enjoyed the walk though.

It is all about money and greed, people stop paying these people and it will stop. My brother's ex father raises these deer, he does not manipulate DNA, no need, it is all in breeding. He gets 24k and up for a buck. Money like that and it won't stop anytime soon.

Now there is a place for breeding big bucks, if you put them back in the wild and let them breed, you get bigger hardier deer stock the right way.

The Bot

reply to post by buster2010


Hey Buster:

Thanx for clarifying that for me. I thought you were talking about me...LMFO...

Biigs
They are being bred to be shot, giving them X aches over Y time is largely irrelevant to the person that wants the mount and also to the person or people that eat the meat.

Now a real hunter, who wants to hunt for the hunt and sees the antlers and meat as a tasty bonus, they hunt the game in a far more vast area.

A "real hunter" has respect for the animal.

Fine, enjoy the hunt as well, if that's what you get off on. No "beef" from me. But IMHO anyone who hunts mainly just to go out and kill things, and prove how big and bad and awesome they are, and the meat is "only" a "tasty bonus" is a sick, egoistic, narcissistic, sadistic, insecure, weak-willed sad excuse for a human.


You kill to get meat, because you have to eat. That is part of the cycle of life. Chasing down a creature of inferior intellect with a projectile weapon in your hands primarily for fun is a sick, sick thing.



That being said-- these poor deer look very head-heavy. Look at the one at about 1:00... poor thing looked like it could barely hold its head up.

iwilliam

Biigs
They are being bred to be shot, giving them X aches over Y time is largely irrelevant to the person that wants the mount and also to the person or people that eat the meat.

Now a real hunter, who wants to hunt for the hunt and sees the antlers and meat as a tasty bonus, they hunt the game in a far more vast area.

A "real hunter" has respect for the animal.

Fine, enjoy the hunt as well, if that's what you get off on. No "beef" from me. But IMHO anyone who hunts mainly just to go out and kill things, and prove how big and bad and awesome they are, and the meat is "only" a "tasty bonus" is a sick, egoistic, narcissistic, sadistic, insecure, weak-willed sad excuse for a human.


You kill to get meat, because you have to eat. That is part of the cycle of life. Chasing down a creature of inferior intellect with a projectile weapon in your hands primarily for fun is a sick, sick thing.



That being said-- these poor deer look very head-heavy. Look at the one at about 1:00... poor thing looked like it could barely hold its head up.

You obviously are not a hunter and or know anything about animal characteristics or genetics. Those deer are not suffering in any way shape or form as far as health concerns. If those deer are kept in small pens and killed there that is a different story. As far as the animal suffering from a healthy rack is absurd. I eat everything I kill. I have killed animals and didn't like the taste therefore I don't hunt that particular animal anymore. With that said I have killed pretty much everything that has walked or slitherd it's way across North America at some point in time in my life. Every hunter I have ever had the pleasure of meeting is generally more concerned with conservation than any green peace or PETA nut. With that being said there isn't much that I have hunted that I don't like. I also mostly hunt with bow these days not unless I am chasing something that requires long range shots like mountain goat and big horn sheep.

PETA= People Enjoying Tasty Animals!!!

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


I think people should be ashamed and shamed for trophy hunting in todays world. To me its a sign of imbecility, like diamonds and wearing "precious" jewels and furs I have only disdain for those "people"...

Panic2k11
reply to post by thisguyrighthere

 

I think people should be ashamed and shamed for trophy hunting in today's world. To me its a sign of imbecility, like diamonds and wearing "precious" jewels and furs I have only disdain for those "people"...

Do you even know why most hunters "trophy hunt" as you call it? I should give you time to answer but I don't think you are a hunter or would even understand what a "trophy" means to average everyday hunters. While most people here are calling hunting not challenging or fair to the animal. And that hunters are only blood hungry people out to slaughter a dumb animal that stands no chance is just not true. This is why most hunters "trophy" hunt.

Let me explain. See if you were a hunter or spent anytime in the outdoors hunting you would know older "trophy" deer have usually lived linger lives then deer with smaller racks and therefore are very intelligent and elusive. You see "trophy" deer are more challenging and as a hunter spends more time in the woods they also want to have a chance to play chess if you will, with the master of the woods. Most hunters don't just go out and shoot the first defenseless deer that walks in front of them. They know those deer are young and inexperienced and as more time is spent enjoying nature you want a fair and challenging experience. Believe me if you spent even a weekend trying to pursue an animal that has evolved to be elusive and very hard to catch you would by know how off point your comment is. Top that with a "trophy" that has spent the last seven years of its life avoiding death with senses that are far more sensitive and evolved than yours and you would know why we "trophy" hunt.

reply to post by GuidedKill


No I'm not a hunter and I can't relate to killing animals for sport and ego, I fully understand and even support other types of killing I even see it as a better way to appreciate and build respect for the animals if done out of food necessity as it establish a dependency relation stronger than one has with farm animals that is mostly an "industrialized" process today.

I see no pride to be had in killing lesser wild animals with modern weapons or aid of technology, as a form of self realization, ego stroke or for commercial gain outside compensation for control of breading. I have no problem with killing farmed animals if done in a "humane" way often they will even have a better existence than domesticated cattle and if not permitted to encroach on wild life habitats will contribute to the preservation of species. At the same time I see the need to engage in this as a sport utterly futile and wasteful, there are plenty of other avenues to engage in more positive activities even in similar context.

reply to post by Panic2k11


While I respect your opinion, I think the whole "killing" animals thing has got you hung up. Obviously we both have opinions and why we form them so let me clarify my position a little more.

You see even though hunting is really exciting and even considered primal I hunt for reasons well beyond that even though I do enjoy those aspects. Can't deny that one. I do however have no faith in USDA and or the meat standards they have. Companies like monstanto make billions on getting meat to markets faster and faster. Because of this they cut many corners and even genetically alter the animals. They feed them hormone laden food in an effort to get the "processing" ready faster.

I know where my meat comes from when I hunt and know that it was grazing off natural earth with no additives or preservatives. I butcher all the animals I harvest and know it was processed in the most clean environments and is completely clean. And the taste......blows beef away. You can taste the difference right away. Let me tell once you have tasted meat that is free of all those toxins you will never want to go back. Ultimately at the end of the day someone is killing and processing the meat you eat and I would rather it be me doing it any day of the week. Try it someday if you haven't already, it may just blow your socks off!!!

reply to post by GuidedKill


I think most people will get hung up when knowingly talk about dispensing death. One needs to recollect that many people have not seen even one animal die in person let alone been responsible for that death, this is one reason we live in such a live discarding world as people are been kept by society distant from the ugly aspects of life (in many aspects beyond what we are talking).

I think that hunting would be as exciting even if it didn't end with the prey's death and there are a lot of similar activities that gives oneself the same adrenaline and sense of superiority towards nature. I get it, but it is a false sense and with modern tools it seems to me so artificial that I cease to see it beyond self delusion.

As for food safety I'm all the way with you in the US there is none, especially in meat products (but not only those, like the fish and sea food from the golf and other crazy stuff you let them do to your food and environment). But in regard to big game I'm sure you understand that it is not a sustainable practice...

So even if I understand your points (and hope you mine) I continue to stick with my initial assertion, killing for sport and keeping trophies of those killings is something that should be shamed and shameful, especially when we are talking of wild animals that have not been bread specifically for that end.

a deers a deer now hand me a beer

reply to post by iwilliam


Could not have put it any better myself. And I would not even have tried.

So I won't say what I was going to say. Because why agitate things, when you've said it.

... with no thumbs up icon, I have to resort to this.

GuidedKill
PETA= People Enjoying Tasty Animals!!!

edit on 18-9-2013 by GuidedKill because: (no reason given)

hurrr hurrr hurrrr....

that was unexpected, wasn't it. a peta joke.

reply to post by Panic2k11


I value all opinions even though I may not always agree with them. I really appreciate your views and how well you articulate them. We will have to agree to disagree. However you mentioned fishing and the safety in commercial fishing and productions. Well being an avid outdoors guy and living on the Gulf I also catch and process my own fish as well. Hunting and gathering your own food is the way nature works in harmony. I would rather collect my own game that way I know I am leaving a very small footprint on my environment. When you buy groceries from the store you only perpetuate the nasty cycle that is killing this planet. I have no faith in anyone other then myself not to over harvest our resources.

winofiend

GuidedKill
PETA= People Enjoying Tasty Animals!!!

edit on 18-9-2013 by GuidedKill because: (no reason given)

hurrr hurrr hurrrr....

that was unexpected, wasn't it. a peta joke.

Maybe a joke to you but I consider it a clean lifestyle. Maybe if more people were like me and didn't rely on big corporations to harvest their food we wouldn't have the problems with have with the food industry. I'll spare you the nasty and vile things the food industry does to get it to your table. Google is your friend, use it and i'm sure you will see the logic in my opinion.

Antipathy17

Biigs
Its got nothing to do with survival.

They are being bred to be shot, giving them X aches over Y time is largely irrelevant to the person that wants the mount and also to the person or people that eat the meat.

Now a real hunter, who wants to hunt for the hunt and sees the antlers and meat as a tasty bonus, they hunt the game in a far more vast area.

Both the hunter and the mount show are both customers to breeding specialists and is no different from a free range farmer vs a battery style high output farmer - the difference is only the customers parameters.

Would these buck also be easier to kill? Buck that are breed and grown around humans (even if on a field) would seem to scare MUCH less. They are taking the sport out of it, why? Profit. Why care about the people who've been doing this for generations when you can easily sway the market to get newcomers. It's like World of Warcraft. If the dev's patch the game and make one class easier, the players who don't play for a challenge but rather play to play the easiest character will always switch.

Let nature run its course, in a future SHTF scenario, having tons of deer that grow bigger, and are less skittish means more food!!..lol

On a serious note, it is disgusting less than a slaughterhouse method of food.

To me hunting isn't real unless you are stalking prey, perhaps even using a bow?
certainly not in a area or from a tree stand.

Many !#$!#' 's in East NC would spread Peanut Butter, sit in tree stand drinking beer until a bear or deer takes the bait. lame imho.

reply to post by GuidedKill


You put it so much eloquently then I could at the time I posted. I hate shopping the Grocery store and wish I could just do it all myself. But I do what I can.

reply to post by HanzHenry


Go to any military base in the US and you would be amazed at how deer treat humans. They've been exposed to so many explosions, gunfire and vehicles/people patrolling through their territory that they just don't scare very well.

You could damn near walk up to them and stab them with a knife. I refuse to hunt on a military base just for that reason. It's to easy and the deer basically have no chance.