Hunters trade shots over deer breeding, killing methods

www.foxnews.com...

The quest for better deer -- specifically bucks with antlers as freakishly big as possible -- has created a rift among deer hunters.

I hunt and this is the first I have heard of this. Personally, I find it pretty $%&*# disgusting that people only hunt for a head to mount. GMO Deer?! Just one look at the picture just goes to show how wrong this is. I agree with the individual below wholeheartedly.

Murphy said some deer are released into 10,000 acres of land, while others, in the most egregious cases, are released into three to five acres before they are shot down. "Most hunters find great disdain in a known outcome," he told FoxNews.com. "That is not hunting. There has to be a high degree of not being successful. The deer has to have a fair chance to escape."

Then you have this yaboohead with absolutely no morals. I wonder how she feels about other issues? Probably could care less and has the "I'm getting mine" attitude. I think that is pretty obvious considering her statement.

"They have the right to do that because it isn't to hunt. They just want the head to mount on their wall," said Laura Caroll, who, along with her husband, owns the deer breeding company.
"They [critics] are saying that one way of killing them is different from another way of killing them," she said. "But the end result is that they kill them."
"It’s no different than raising cattle that’s going to go on people’s tables," Caroll said.

Checkout the mutant deer they raise. I even wonder how the meat turns out as not only do they have mutant antlers, but their bodies bone mass is larger than normal as well.



www.whitehousewhitetails.com...

If they were just raising deer to sustain a population I could see that. But these people are creating a creature just for some non hunting rich person to have bragging rights. I looked at the photos on their website and didn't see hunters, but rather executioners with very fragile egos.

I'm thinking that a DNA test must be done to a Trophy buck prior to being awarded the title. Something like that may even put people who breed animals out of business. If I ever see a rack like that again, I just no that I would lose my cool and call him/her out every chance I could.

reply to post by TDawgRex


ALL HUNTING...Unless you can prove that you dont have enough money to put food on your table....Oh wait...get a EBT card for gods sake....

shells4u
reply to post by TDawgRex

 

ALL HUNTING...Unless you can prove that you dont have enough money to put food on your table....Oh wait...get a EBT card for gods sake....

edit on 9/16/13 by shells4u because: (no reason given)

Shells, that statement to me equates to all gardening. Fishing, etc. Food doesn't just magically appear in the grocery store.

Living in a rural community, hunting is often the way of life. And it does put food on the table freeing up your finances for other things.

I have never agreed to hunting preserves though. Hunting should be a challenge with no guaranteed outcome. I have plenty of time in the woods hunting and came home empty handed. Still enjoyed the walk though.

Those bucks were freaky! How exactly do they get the deer to grow antlers like that? I didn't see it in the article. Do they beef them up on nutrients before they release them? If that's the case, the only thing I see wrong with it is putting them into such a small area where they have no chance at survival.

While I do think that killing for any reason beyond survival is wrong. Those deer are not GMO, just selective breeding like people do with dogs.

The race for bigger deer has prompted some to fear that cloning methods, first pioneered at Texas A&M laboratories in order to protect the species, could soon be used to accelerate the race for bigger antlers.

I'm still reading about their methods used to achieve the size and massive racks, which looks like using something called "ComAx" to mix in with existing feed like corn, per here.

Unless the deer are being kept in cramped conditions and caged in like modern cattle / pig / chicken farms, I would think the deer are having a better life than the other animals used and abused in the large commercial meat farms.

There are many differences in the way they live and how they are slaughtered, but hopefully for the deer the meat is not wasted.

Doesnt artificially creating larger racks make each rack less valuable?

Its like steroids in baseball or breast implants. Trophy hunting is already a petty pursuit. I can only imagine the sort of poorly adjusted insecure individual who would engage in such a "hunt."

These types of "Hunting Farms" are popping up more and more in MI as well. It is stupid, and most of the hunters around here grumble about them.
How sporting is this? The deer don't have much of a chance.
I'm a fan of venison. If you get a huge buck, that is a bonus, but it should be about putting meat on the table first.

Its got nothing to do with survival.

They are being bred to be shot, giving them X aches over Y time is largely irrelevant to the person that wants the mount and also to the person or people that eat the meat.

Now a real hunter, who wants to hunt for the hunt and sees the antlers and meat as a tasty bonus, they hunt the game in a far more vast area.

Both the hunter and the mount show are both customers to breeding specialists and is no different from a free range farmer vs a battery style high output farmer - the difference is only the customers parameters.

Biigs
Its got nothing to do with survival.

They are being bred to be shot, giving them X aches over Y time is largely irrelevant to the person that wants the mount and also to the person or people that eat the meat.

Now a real hunter, who wants to hunt for the hunt and sees the antlers and meat as a tasty bonus, they hunt the game in a far more vast area.

Both the hunter and the mount show are both customers to breeding specialists and is no different from a free range farmer vs a battery style high output farmer - the difference is only the customers parameters.

Would these buck also be easier to kill? Buck that are breed and grown around humans (even if on a field) would seem to scare MUCH less. They are taking the sport out of it, why? Profit. Why care about the people who've been doing this for generations when you can easily sway the market to get newcomers. It's like World of Warcraft. If the dev's patch the game and make one class easier, the players who don't play for a challenge but rather play to play the easiest character will always switch.

reply to post by TDawgRex
I apologize...It has been a long night, and I was being snarky...I too have lived and am currently living in a small town here in Montana, There is not a person in my immediate or distant kin that has not had to hunt from time to time. My Dad was a cement contractor and yes we fell on some pretty rough times, I am sure you know how that is...but he never hunted seasonally, like so many folks do. My dad ONLY hunted when it was absolutely needed. He would bring home stuff like rabbits(he would go out in the desert in the middle of the night and blind them with the flood lights attached to his rail job and while they were frozen from the lights he would shoot them)

Here is what a rail job is.

He would bring home doves (those he would get permission to shoot them from this old farmer who had feedlots)

He would go frog gigging He would take the family out to this big creek and we would fill up a few gallon buckets of crawldads He would drive down to Dana Point Beach and dive off the rock jetties for abalone.

He would take the family to NewPort Beach and that's where we would get gooey ducks...Fishing off the pier...etc.
I guess hunting is okay with me as long as one does it when your outta work and you have to feed your family...But hunting just because something is in season does not mean that one must hunt if one has plenty already. But yes hunting grain fed deer is a strange concept, In Oklahoma where I lived just 2 years ago there were some and the deer farmers were making a tidy little sum from this I am sure there will be these popping up all over the place. Like shooting fish in a barrel...

reply to post by TDawgRex


A thread near and 'deer' to my heart. Thanks for posting.

I love to deer hunt and I really do not want to argue over the morality of it. My input is specific to the OP.

I have noticed this too over the last few years. I sure wish I was articulate enough to clearly explain how I see this mindset manifesting itself around hunting. While there has always been a business selling stuff for hunting, it has never been quite like this. On the good side, there is some excellent equipment out there. On the down side, those who market it need to hype it somehow. Uncle Joe sitting out on the old stump, in a red wool jacket, waiting for a deer to come by does not cut it.

This is where all these monster racks come into the picture. It expands the market past those who are OK with just sitting on the stump. Think I am joking? They now have action figures of the record bucks. Amazing. I believe it taps more into those with a juvenile sense of competition far more than any appreciation of hunting. My buck was bigger than your buck. Check out the sticker on my truck. I just spent a $1000 on a new bow. See how manly my man room is with monster deer heads.

I know where I live there are plenty of deer running around the woods. Normal deer. Heck, the DNR cannot give enough tags away. Yet there are those willing to pay thousands of dollars to shoot specifically bred whopper deer in high fence farms. I guess if there are those with money to burn there will be those willing to do what they have to, to take it away from them.

Deer breeding is big business because of this. This bigger the rack, the better. I saw a show from one of those GMO farms in Texas and the bucks were freakish. You will NEVER see anything like that in the wild. For those who just want to blast a deer, trapped in a pen, from 10 feet away to aid in their feelings of self-worth, I feel sorry for them. I feel sorry for the deer. If they hunt them under 'fair chase', I guess that is a step up.

I wonder where it will end? If a 'big' rack is the goal, how big is big? 200? 250? 300? 350? How much will it cost? In the days of a dwindling hunting population, does this help the cause? All hunters are narcissistic competitors who only shoot fish in a barrel?

Oh well, flame on

reply to post by shells4u


I had forgotten all about gigging! Wow, does that bring back memories. Me and my buddies do hunt seasonally (5 of us), and there have been seasons that one or more of us come up empty handed. Those of us that do tag a deer we all put them together and everybody gets a share depending upon the size of family. We do the same for turkey.

I'm not a fan of squirrel or rabbit so I always pass on that, unless it's in a stew made by a friends mom who unfortunately passed away without passing on the recipe. No one has been able to replicate it yet.

Since I'm single, I always get the smallest share, even if I bought down the biggest deer.

Back to topic, these businesses that do this are akin to going to the zoo and shooting a tiger and being aloud to take it home and mount it, as far as I'm concerned. No skill required.

reply to post by TDawgRex
I asked my older sister today about why Dad never went deer hunting(she was the tom boy of the two of us). She told me that he just couldn't bring himself to shoot a deer...I did not know that he was that sensitive...He was such a mans man...anyways...Yes about those deer farms or resorts, I think that it is a place where the rich go to get their rocks off or something but that's just my opinion. The whole mess with the big antlers and stuff is really strange, after reading all this, I sure would have to be some kinda hungry to eat them...Yikes...and as you have seen from my pix I have eatin some pretty funky looking animals...LMAO

reply to post by shells4u


I just remembered a old conspiracy theory of mine from way back concerning my friends Moms stew.

I'm not a fan of squirrel or rabbit so I always pass on that, unless it's in a stew made by a friends mom who unfortunately passed away without passing on the recipe. No one has been able to replicate it yet.

The theory was that she used Chicken/Pork or maybe together to make it and just fed the Squirrels & Rabbits to the dog.

I will admit that I prefer wild game/free range to farm raised animals when it comes to food. I still see deer as beautiful though as well. I almost shot a Doe, until it's fawn came out. I couldn't pull the trigger on that. It would've just been wrong.

Looking for antler shed would net these businesses some good money without having to kill them. People pay a crap load of money for those antler chandeliers or furniture made from them.

If I ever got into the business, that is what it would be.

reply to post by shells4u


Some people don't qualify for EBT but their funds are tight. Hunting and fishing is a good way to put food on the table and until now, I thought it was unaffected by Monsanto and GMO clowns. It isn't any more cruel to do what they are doing though. The animals are clueless and I'm sure their opinion is it's not a favorable outcome for them regardless if they are on a lawn, 3 acres or 100 acres. In fact the thrill of the hunt for so many hunters is more stressful for the animals, trying to run and hide and feeling scared. If you think about it, short and sweet is more to the point and less stress time. I raise my own meat and don't think it is cruel. They have a good life until it ends. They have no idea they are going to be processed and put in my freezer for a future meal.

Some people don't qualify for EBT but their funds are tight. Hunting and fishing is a good way to put food on the table

reply to post by StoutBroux


About my comment made earlier in the thread...I apologized for saying that...I jumped the gun...One should always think before they speak, I was always told this and I do try to do that, but hey, sometimes...
Let's just call it "THE BAMBI SYNDROME"

Looking for antler shed would net these businesses some good money without having to kill them. People pay a crap load of money for those antler chandeliers or furniture made from them.

If I ever got into the business, that is what it would be.

reply to post by TDawgRex


About 6 years ago I got a little side tracked somewhere in Utah, it was a small town and I must have hit the season where the mainstay of the folks there were antlers, Oh man...I never saw anything like that in my life...they were piled up like small hills on every corner selling them by size, it was quite the sight to see...I love those wrong turns...

Somebody should ask this woman when was the last time she shot the cow that was used for her steak. This isn't hunting it's just killing and it's disgusting.